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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / January 2004Blood Work and Problem Veins
I ran into a problem this week when I went to the lab to get blood drawn for my regular 3 month lab tests for my primary care doctor. The nurse could not use the vein in my left arm which she usually does and she said the ones in my hands were worn out from the Chemotherapy treatments too. As some of you may recall, I wear a Lymphedema Alert Bracelet on my right wrist and do not allow needles etc. in that arm. The technician finally managed to draw the needed blood from my left arm in a vein a few inches from my elbow which she normally does not use. Have any of you run into a similar problem with your veins after Chemo? Can you give me an idea how long it takes for our veins to return to normal where they can be used for blood tests? I am really concerned about returning every 3 months for lab tests under these conditions. What do we do if we can only use one arm and one side of our body due to trying to protect ourselves from Lymphedema problems and that arm is worn out from Chemo? Thanks for any advice you can give me. Bea Hi, I understand they can also draw blood from the ankle. It's not as easily done as an arm vein, but it can be done. Good luck to you! Lady8 Hi Bea, I am also having this problem. My main vein was good until I let an emergency room dr. use it for an IV when I had pancreatitis. One of the chemo nurses had warned me not to use it. It developed scar tissue. I am not sure what to do about it. My surgeon said they can sometimes use a vein in the neck as well as your leg. I have a problem with swollen legs so it probably would not be the best place for me to have it done there. I know how frustrated you must feel about this, particularly if the tech says they know what they're doing and don't listen to you. After arguing with some, I have let them try and they were not successful. I have wound up quite bruised as a result. I am not sure what the solution is. I think that one can always get a port put in, but I am hoping that I don't need to have that done. >I ran into a problem this week when I went to the lab to get blood drawn >for my regular 3 month lab tests for my primary care doctor. The nurse >could not use the vein in my left arm which she usually does and she >said the ones in my hands were worn out from the Chemotherapy treatments Talk to them about a port-a-cath. It's a little valve installed in a vein below your collarbone. My wife has bad veins she inherited from her parents. Without her port she would not have made it this far in her treatments. You can do a quick google search on port-a-cath and come up with more information than you want. The surgery is fairly minor, but you'll want someone to drive you home from the surgeon's office. - Tony  SignatureTony Lima /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign \ / against HTML mail X and postings / \ <snip> > Can you give me an idea how long it takes for our veins to return to > normal where they can be used for blood tests? <snip> > Bea Hi Bea, My wife Liz had this problem towards the end of chemo 15 months ago. They took blood from her ankle, which was better. Her veins are much better now, but she was told it would take up to two years for them to recover fully, and she would still ask for blood to be taken from the ankle now, Good wishes Peter Hi Bea, I have a blood disorder that required blood tests once or twice a week with phlebotomies once a week for five weeks. The blood testing started about 3 weeks before that. I managed to do pretty well with the needles and am now probably only going to have to do blood tests and a phlebotomy about every 4 or 5 weeks. Today I went to have a pint of blood withdrawn and it didn't go well. These treatments are done by the chemo nurse so she knows what she's doing, but my vein just disappeared as she was inserting the needle. She tried to maneuver to capture that vein and it was really an "ouchie". The blood started to flow, then stopped, then started again, and completely stopped about 2/3rd of a pint. I asked her if they ever insert a port to use for these blood-lets and she said "No" not for blood lets. These needles are much bigger than the thin ones they use for the blood tests and I'm hoping my vein hasn't been overused. I don't look forward to having that needle in my ankle for a half-hour. Maybe it was just a bad day. Kathie > I ran into a problem this week when I went to the lab to get blood drawn > for my regular 3 month lab tests for my primary care doctor. The nurse [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > protect ourselves from Lymphedema problems and that arm is worn out from > Chemo? Thanks for any advice you can give me. First of all there are a couple of tricks to finding hidden veins, such as dipping the hand/arm in warm water and using a blood pressure cuff. I'm sure most chemo nurses know them by now. If the lab nurse has difficulties she should find an MD to do it. Veins do need time to recover after many types of chemo. Exercise speeds up venous recovery, as does some sort of manual work like kneading dough, gardening, etc. Another point is this business of not allowing blood being drawn from the arm on the operated side of the body because of the danger of lymphedema.. In my experience this has never happened, so if correct sterile technique is used its ok to use that arm for blood tests. IV infusions OTOH do pose a slight danger, depending on what medication is being infused, (again) on whether good sterile techniques are used and how long the canulla is left in the arm. Using the leg veins should be a last resort for iv infusions due to the danger of thrombosis, using them occasionally for venepuncture is ok. Signaturemadiba >> I ran into a problem this week when I went to the lab to get blood drawn >> for my regular 3 month lab tests for my primary care doctor. The nurse >> could not use the vein in my left arm which she usually does and she said >> the ones in my hands were worn out from the Chemotherapy treatments too. >> As some of you may recall, I wear a Lymphedema Alert Bracelet on my right >> wrist and do not allow needles etc. in that arm. ... >> ... What do we >> do if we can only use one arm and one side of our body due to trying to >> protect ourselves from Lymphedema problems and that arm is worn out from >> Chemo? Thanks for any advice you can give me. >First of all there are a couple of tricks to finding hidden veins, such >as dipping the hand/arm in warm water and using a blood pressure cuff. >I'm sure most chemo nurses know them by now. If the lab nurse has >difficulties she should find an MD to do it. Veins do need time to >recover after many types of chemo. Exercise speeds up venous recovery, >as does some sort of manual work like kneading dough, gardening, etc. Another tip is to make sure you're not dehydrated, which makes the veins smaller and harder to hit. >Another point is this business of not allowing blood being drawn from >the arm on the operated side of the body because of the danger of >lymphedema.. In my experience this has never happened, so if correct >sterile technique is used its ok to use that arm for blood tests. Sorry, Madiba, my experience is very different. My wife suffered severe edema after a botched blood taking from her 'bad' arm. The vein continued to leak blood under the skin and her arm became very swollen - and that condition lasted for several months. Problems may not happen often, but they CAN happen. > >> I ran into a problem this week when I went to the lab to get blood drawn > >> for my regular 3 month lab tests for my primary care doctor. The nurse [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > several months. > Problems may not happen often, but they CAN happen. If you're going to use the 'bad' arm then don't send in the junior nurse/intern to do it, obviously. In my experience those veins are used only when really needed and then only by experienced personell. Signaturemadiba ... >> My wife suffered severe edema after a botched blood taking from >> her 'bad' arm. The vein continued to leak blood under the skin >> and her arm became very swollen - and that condition lasted for >> several months. >> Problems may not happen often, but they CAN happen. >If you're going to use the 'bad' arm then don't send in the junior >nurse/intern to do it, obviously. In my experience those veins are used >only when really needed and then only by experienced personell. This WAS an experienced hospital ER nurse, one who took blood dozens of times every day. Bad things *can* happen, even with good people... My wife got a portocath in her jugular and the surgeon said they could use it to draw blood, not just for putting in chemo. When she went to get chemo the chemo nurse said it could not be used to draw blood. What do you do? SignatureSay no to fixed width tables. They look terrible in all browsers. >My wife got a portocath in her jugular > and the surgeon said they could use it to > draw blood, not just for putting in > chemo. When she went to get chemo > the chemo nurse said it could not be > used to draw blood. What do you do? I have a blood condition that will require a pint of blood by drawn off every 5 weeks or so long term. (Probably forever....) It's done at the Infusion Center by the chemo nurse and I asked if a port could be used because sometimes there's a problem with the vein. She also said No to a port for blood draws. The small needle they use for blood tests is easy, but the larger needle hurts. Kathie >My wife got a portocath in her jugular and the surgeon said they >could use it to draw blood, not just for putting in chemo. When she >went to get chemo the chemo nurse said it could not be used to draw >blood. What do you do? I doubt it was actually in her jugular; the most common site is just below the collarbone. And the chemo nurses draw blood through my wife's portacath all the time. The valve works both ways. - Tony SignatureTony Lima /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign \ / against HTML mail X and postings / \ My port has been used for all my blood work with no problems. Sometimes they have a problem getting blood out, but not putting something in. Luckily this only happened to me once and I had to do some moving around, drink fluids, and finally ended up flat on a bed. It worked and was better than the many needle sticks per blood draw that I've suffered in the past. Unfortunately, my gp doesn't have staff who are qualified to draw from a port so I try to get everything tested at oncologist's office if I can. Mary in Maryland >My port has been used for all my blood work with no problems. Sometimes they >have a problem getting blood out, but not putting something in. Luckily this [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >doesn't have staff who are qualified to draw from a port so I try to get >everything tested at oncologist's office if I can. Coughing a couple of times helps, too. As does putting a pillow behind your lower back. Nurses who regularly deal with ports know many more tricks like this. Ask around! - Tony SignatureTony Lima /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign \ / against HTML mail X and postings / \ On the good side, there is one nurse at the dr's office who, when she draws blood, I could hardly feel it. She's the best. I actually had to think about it: "Well, I THINK she is doing it now." Also, when she gives shots, I can't feel it at all. She grabs a bunch of muscle on the arm, then puts the shot in. It really makes a difference. SignatureSay no to fixed width tables. They look terrible in all browsers. |
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