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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / December 2003

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Soy Foods and Cancer

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bartalo@webtv.net - 04 Dec 2003 16:38 GMT
At a recent bc support meeting, a member mentioned that her doctor told
her she could not have Soy products due to the type of cancer she has.
At that time, I had no idea I was ER+ and Soy is supposed to be a no-no
for us so I did not ask her more about it.  My own doctor has not told
me to stay off Soy ( but then again, he really does not tell me much of
anytthing) so I have concerns I hope some of you can address.

When it is said that Soy products can possibly cause more cancer in
those who are ER+ can anyone tell me if they mean ANYTHING made from
soybeans including soybean oil?  I don't eat Tofu or drink Soy milk but
to my dismay quite a few of the products I use have Soybean "oil"
included in the ingredients.  My favorite cocoa mix, ready to
make-muffins, packaged candies  and other foods have this oil.  Does
anyone know if I need to eliminate these from my diet too or just stay
away from other forms of Soybean?   Once again, many thanks for your
advice and help.

Bea
Tim Jackson - 04 Dec 2003 18:32 GMT
> At a recent bc support meeting, a member mentioned that her doctor told
> her she could not have Soy products due to the type of cancer she has.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Bea

I believe the issue with the estrogen-like substances in soy potentially
stimulating ER+ cancers really is only significant where soy constitutes a
significant part of the diet.  I don't think there is any noticeable
increase in risk in the soy content of 'normal' processed foods.  I don't
think any link is really proven, just suspected.

Tim Jackson
A. P. Thorsen - 04 Dec 2003 20:02 GMT
> When it is said that Soy products can possibly cause more cancer in
> those who are ER+ can anyone tell me if they mean ANYTHING made from
> soybeans including soybean oil?

As of my last research into the subject (a year or two ago now), this
whole idea was still quite controversial -- some evidence suggesting
that soy may encourage the growth of ER+ tumors, some suggesting it may
block growth.  In either case, the perceived mechanism is
phyto-estrogens (plant based estrogen compounds) in the soy.

As I understood it, those in the "soy good" camp believe soy's
phyto-estrogens bind to estrogen receptor sites in tumors and block
regular estrogen, hindering tumor growth (similar to Tamoxifen).  Those
in the "soy bad" camp believe the phyto-estrogens act just like regular
estrogen and help the tumor to grow.

Soy is not the only food that contains phyto-estrogens, but it is one of
the more concentrated sources.  Those in the the "soy bad" camp would
say that eating large amounts of tofu, edamame, tempeh, etc., on a
regular basis is probably a bad idea for those of us with ER+ tumors.

In my *opinion* -- which is not the opinion of a medical professional,
just a BC survivor (vegetarian) who reads what she can get her hands on
about this -- there is probably no need to worry obsessively about
things that have teensy amounts of soy that are way down toward the end
of the ingredients list.

Also, I understand that the phyto-estrogens in soy are the isoflavones,
and I gather that soy oil contains no isoflavones.  (See, for example,
http://www.soyfoods.com/nutrition/isoflavone.html ).  So, soy oil should
not be of significant concern.

Hope this helps,

Ann T.
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DebITRC - 04 Dec 2003 20:51 GMT
My oncologist always said, don't change your diet" after she asked me in
general about my diet and felt it was reasonably healthy (I did not tell about
chocolate!)  Since then, I have not invested in soy, but I haven't avoided it
totally.  (Tofu once a month instead of every week.)
Deb
Sandy L - 05 Dec 2003 04:55 GMT
> At a recent bc support meeting, a member mentioned that her doctor told
> her she could not have Soy products due to the type of cancer she has.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Bea

In addition to the blocking hypothesis  mentioned by another
contributor, I read recently that the main phytoestrogen in soy binds to
a different estrogen receptor that estradiol.  Breast cancer rates among
oriental women are said to be lower than among western women (I haven't
verified that), and I have heard conjecture that the soy in diet may be
a good thing.  I think no one is really sure.
su-texas@webtv.net - 05 Dec 2003 13:46 GMT
In addition to the blocking hypothesis mentioned by another contributor,
I read recently that the main phytoestrogen in soy binds to a different
estrogen receptor that estradiol.

Breast cancer rates among oriental women are said to be lower than among
western women (I haven't verified that), and I have heard conjecture
that the soy in diet may be a good thing.

I think no one is really sure.

============

You're right, in that cancer care is still so primitive &
Pharma-controlled, that not much good information is getting through to
us.  ???  No one is sure.

I've read that oriental women eat small quantities of soy.  Often, it's
the amount that matters.  A larger amount might promote/encourage
cancer.

I've also read that researchers think it might be the greens which
oriental women eat (such as seaweed), that accounts for the lower cancer
rates, ... & not the soy.

I'd avoid soy, except in very small amounts.

There are many other beans, which don't have the high phytoestrogen
(phyto/plant estrogen) content, that soy beans have.  So why not use a
variety of other beans?

Eating the same beans often (such as soy), might can cause or aggravate
some health problems.

I've also read, that feeding soy products to boys & men (& thereby, high
levels of estrogen), can cause some health problems.

Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions
su-texas@webtv.net - 05 Dec 2003 15:20 GMT
Weight:  Another theory, for some oriental women's getting less cancer,
was that they weighed less than American women. They were slim.

Minerals:  Another theory, was that there was more selenium in the soil,
& in the food.

???

Susan, Su_Texas   my opinions
Kaye301 - 05 Dec 2003 16:53 GMT
Sandy L  wrote: << Breast cancer rates among oriental women are said to be
lower than among
western women (I haven't verified that), and I have heard conjecture
that the soy in diet may be a good thing.  >>

There could also be a genetics factor, too, and I am not sure if the research
also looked out or separated the above from the possible total amount or
addition of green tea consumption, also supposedly of benefit.  However, I do
believe that something must be going on with soy for it to be repeatedly
discussed.  At the same time, there is a great deal more of soy in our products
than there was in the  past.
At one time soy was considered the "perfect" food.  And supposedly certified
organic soy products (i.e. tofu) was included as such.  Unfortunately, there is
actually no longer anyway to guarantee that any soy product is 100% organic.
The reason for that is because corn (and possibly something else, like even the
soy bean, although think that only it was the corn that was involved) was
genetically engineered to resist certain pests.  What happened was when the
pests than ate the corn, there was something toxic in them that caused them to
die and it allowed the corn to survive.  Supposedly this was thought to be
toxic only to the pests or very little else and was at the least thought to be
confined to the involved crop or plant on which it had been done.
What was not known or taken into account when this was done was how it might
affect all other organisms that ingested this genetically engineered corn.
Unfortunately, it also happened to be toxic to the monarch butterfly and has
since reduced their number such that we were told (in a cooking class a took a
few years--'everything you never wanted to know about tofu'--which I took after
my 2 youngest daughters went vegetarian on us at ages 13 and 16--for different
reasons, although separately but around the same time).
Anyway, the monarch butterfly is responsible for cross-pollination.  It
pollinated not only with the genetically engineered plants but with the
certified organic ones as well.  So supposedly, there can no longer be any
guarantee that anything (or at least any soybean) is 100% organic.  However,
supposedly those that are certified organic are more so than ones that are not.
We were also told that this was here to stay and that there was no way to
undue that damage once it was done.  I really don't know enough about the
process to comment one way or the other.
su-texas@webtv.net - 05 Dec 2003 22:07 GMT
The Soy Lobby

From what I've read, there are food lobbys & lobbyists (sp?), whose job
is to overly-promote their product (irregardless of the truth &
reality), ... & to gain (for their side) the most govt protections,
freebies, kick-backs, favors, etc.

That's supposed to be one reason, why the food pyramid (which we were
taught about in school years ago) is so flawed & wrong, so unhealthy.

There is a soy lobby which has been overly-promoting it's product for
some time now.  And yes, they've lied & misled people in order to sell
more of it.  It's about greed & power.

Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions
su-texas@webtv.net - 05 Dec 2003 23:08 GMT
Tofu & Aluminum

There was also some concern, about the higher rates of Alzheimer's (?)
disease, in those people who regularly ate tofu (a soy product).

They think this might be, because some tofu has a high aluminum content.
To shorten the manufacturing process, they'll sometimes add aluminum
sulfate to the tofu mix.  

Also, the tofu manufacturing equipment might be made of aluminum.

Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions
 
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