Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / December 2003
Soy Foods and Cancer
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bartalo@webtv.net - 04 Dec 2003 16:38 GMT At a recent bc support meeting, a member mentioned that her doctor told her she could not have Soy products due to the type of cancer she has. At that time, I had no idea I was ER+ and Soy is supposed to be a no-no for us so I did not ask her more about it. My own doctor has not told me to stay off Soy ( but then again, he really does not tell me much of anytthing) so I have concerns I hope some of you can address.
When it is said that Soy products can possibly cause more cancer in those who are ER+ can anyone tell me if they mean ANYTHING made from soybeans including soybean oil? I don't eat Tofu or drink Soy milk but to my dismay quite a few of the products I use have Soybean "oil" included in the ingredients. My favorite cocoa mix, ready to make-muffins, packaged candies and other foods have this oil. Does anyone know if I need to eliminate these from my diet too or just stay away from other forms of Soybean? Once again, many thanks for your advice and help.
Bea
Tim Jackson - 04 Dec 2003 18:32 GMT > At a recent bc support meeting, a member mentioned that her doctor told > her she could not have Soy products due to the type of cancer she has. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Bea I believe the issue with the estrogen-like substances in soy potentially stimulating ER+ cancers really is only significant where soy constitutes a significant part of the diet. I don't think there is any noticeable increase in risk in the soy content of 'normal' processed foods. I don't think any link is really proven, just suspected.
Tim Jackson
A. P. Thorsen - 04 Dec 2003 20:02 GMT > When it is said that Soy products can possibly cause more cancer in > those who are ER+ can anyone tell me if they mean ANYTHING made from > soybeans including soybean oil? As of my last research into the subject (a year or two ago now), this whole idea was still quite controversial -- some evidence suggesting that soy may encourage the growth of ER+ tumors, some suggesting it may block growth. In either case, the perceived mechanism is phyto-estrogens (plant based estrogen compounds) in the soy.
As I understood it, those in the "soy good" camp believe soy's phyto-estrogens bind to estrogen receptor sites in tumors and block regular estrogen, hindering tumor growth (similar to Tamoxifen). Those in the "soy bad" camp believe the phyto-estrogens act just like regular estrogen and help the tumor to grow.
Soy is not the only food that contains phyto-estrogens, but it is one of the more concentrated sources. Those in the the "soy bad" camp would say that eating large amounts of tofu, edamame, tempeh, etc., on a regular basis is probably a bad idea for those of us with ER+ tumors.
In my *opinion* -- which is not the opinion of a medical professional, just a BC survivor (vegetarian) who reads what she can get her hands on about this -- there is probably no need to worry obsessively about things that have teensy amounts of soy that are way down toward the end of the ingredients list.
Also, I understand that the phyto-estrogens in soy are the isoflavones, and I gather that soy oil contains no isoflavones. (See, for example, http://www.soyfoods.com/nutrition/isoflavone.html ). So, soy oil should not be of significant concern.
Hope this helps,
Ann T. Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email
DebITRC - 04 Dec 2003 20:51 GMT My oncologist always said, don't change your diet" after she asked me in general about my diet and felt it was reasonably healthy (I did not tell about chocolate!) Since then, I have not invested in soy, but I haven't avoided it totally. (Tofu once a month instead of every week.) Deb
Sandy L - 05 Dec 2003 04:55 GMT > At a recent bc support meeting, a member mentioned that her doctor told > her she could not have Soy products due to the type of cancer she has. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Bea In addition to the blocking hypothesis mentioned by another contributor, I read recently that the main phytoestrogen in soy binds to a different estrogen receptor that estradiol. Breast cancer rates among oriental women are said to be lower than among western women (I haven't verified that), and I have heard conjecture that the soy in diet may be a good thing. I think no one is really sure.
su-texas@webtv.net - 05 Dec 2003 13:46 GMT In addition to the blocking hypothesis mentioned by another contributor, I read recently that the main phytoestrogen in soy binds to a different estrogen receptor that estradiol.
Breast cancer rates among oriental women are said to be lower than among western women (I haven't verified that), and I have heard conjecture that the soy in diet may be a good thing.
I think no one is really sure.
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You're right, in that cancer care is still so primitive & Pharma-controlled, that not much good information is getting through to us. ??? No one is sure.
I've read that oriental women eat small quantities of soy. Often, it's the amount that matters. A larger amount might promote/encourage cancer.
I've also read that researchers think it might be the greens which oriental women eat (such as seaweed), that accounts for the lower cancer rates, ... & not the soy.
I'd avoid soy, except in very small amounts.
There are many other beans, which don't have the high phytoestrogen (phyto/plant estrogen) content, that soy beans have. So why not use a variety of other beans?
Eating the same beans often (such as soy), might can cause or aggravate some health problems.
I've also read, that feeding soy products to boys & men (& thereby, high levels of estrogen), can cause some health problems.
Susan, Su_Texas my opinions
su-texas@webtv.net - 05 Dec 2003 15:20 GMT Weight: Another theory, for some oriental women's getting less cancer, was that they weighed less than American women. They were slim.
Minerals: Another theory, was that there was more selenium in the soil, & in the food.
???
Susan, Su_Texas my opinions
Kaye301 - 05 Dec 2003 16:53 GMT Sandy L wrote: << Breast cancer rates among oriental women are said to be lower than among western women (I haven't verified that), and I have heard conjecture that the soy in diet may be a good thing. >>
There could also be a genetics factor, too, and I am not sure if the research also looked out or separated the above from the possible total amount or addition of green tea consumption, also supposedly of benefit. However, I do believe that something must be going on with soy for it to be repeatedly discussed. At the same time, there is a great deal more of soy in our products than there was in the past. At one time soy was considered the "perfect" food. And supposedly certified organic soy products (i.e. tofu) was included as such. Unfortunately, there is actually no longer anyway to guarantee that any soy product is 100% organic. The reason for that is because corn (and possibly something else, like even the soy bean, although think that only it was the corn that was involved) was genetically engineered to resist certain pests. What happened was when the pests than ate the corn, there was something toxic in them that caused them to die and it allowed the corn to survive. Supposedly this was thought to be toxic only to the pests or very little else and was at the least thought to be confined to the involved crop or plant on which it had been done. What was not known or taken into account when this was done was how it might affect all other organisms that ingested this genetically engineered corn. Unfortunately, it also happened to be toxic to the monarch butterfly and has since reduced their number such that we were told (in a cooking class a took a few years--'everything you never wanted to know about tofu'--which I took after my 2 youngest daughters went vegetarian on us at ages 13 and 16--for different reasons, although separately but around the same time). Anyway, the monarch butterfly is responsible for cross-pollination. It pollinated not only with the genetically engineered plants but with the certified organic ones as well. So supposedly, there can no longer be any guarantee that anything (or at least any soybean) is 100% organic. However, supposedly those that are certified organic are more so than ones that are not. We were also told that this was here to stay and that there was no way to undue that damage once it was done. I really don't know enough about the process to comment one way or the other.
su-texas@webtv.net - 05 Dec 2003 22:07 GMT The Soy Lobby
From what I've read, there are food lobbys & lobbyists (sp?), whose job is to overly-promote their product (irregardless of the truth & reality), ... & to gain (for their side) the most govt protections, freebies, kick-backs, favors, etc.
That's supposed to be one reason, why the food pyramid (which we were taught about in school years ago) is so flawed & wrong, so unhealthy.
There is a soy lobby which has been overly-promoting it's product for some time now. And yes, they've lied & misled people in order to sell more of it. It's about greed & power.
Susan, Su_Texas my opinions
su-texas@webtv.net - 05 Dec 2003 23:08 GMT Tofu & Aluminum
There was also some concern, about the higher rates of Alzheimer's (?) disease, in those people who regularly ate tofu (a soy product).
They think this might be, because some tofu has a high aluminum content. To shorten the manufacturing process, they'll sometimes add aluminum sulfate to the tofu mix.
Also, the tofu manufacturing equipment might be made of aluminum.
Susan, Su_Texas my opinions
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