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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / November 2003

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Just back from bone scan...

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Kaye301 - 25 Nov 2003 00:35 GMT
Feeling kind of bittersweet or maybe just bitter and sad at the moment.  I
should be angry, too, but that emotion has been used up.  Just had a bone scan.
It hurt to lie still that llong due to the sciatic pain on the left side.
Ouch.  I did it though.  Afterwards, my films were on the screen.  I asked the
tech if I could see them.  No surprises--except how the 'tech' labeled them.
The areas which have shown up as increased intensity still did--in the L4/L5
region of my lumbar spine.  That has shown up as such on the past 2 MRI's
(taken in 4/3 and 7/03) and PET scans (taken in 8/02 and 9/03) but not the
first MRI (which was taken 6 mos after dx).  She also showed me the spots on my
shoulders, more on the left than the right.  (That's what the last PET scan
showed but the rookie nuclear oncologist (fellow student) interpreted that as
'arthritic activity.'  What was different this time was that the tech labelled
them as "unusual" "hot spots."  If that means mets, so be it, but I am sure as
h*## pissed that I have been discredited and made to look like a fool when I've
known all along.  It doesn't take a genius to come up with an answer that
coincides with common sense in light of my pathology and symptomatology.  It
really is a 'no brainer.'  It shows the lengths that the medical community will
go to in order to avoid 'calling a spade a spade' in order to maximize the
insurance industry's estimation of cost-effectiveness. Now, I may be wrong--and
sure hope so--but my gut level reaction is and has been all along that I am not
and have been 'dissed again.'
If it is only arthritic activity as I have been told, why didn't and hasn't the
arthritic activity that had shown up in my wrists, knees, and ankles show up,
too?  I have been asking THAT all along and have not received a satisfactory
answer.
The tech didn't elaborate  but went on to say that my dr. would be contacting
me to explain.
Marianne - 25 Nov 2003 17:23 GMT
Hi Kaye;

I'm so sorry that you have to go through all this worrying and agonizing.
Keep in mind that arthritic activity also generally shows up on bone scans,
so it is still possible that's what it is. I've heard that arthritis
generally shows up in the joints.

Have you heard from your doctor yet about the scan?  I'll be hoping that you
are wrong about it being mets.

Marianne

> Feeling kind of bittersweet or maybe just bitter and sad at the moment.  I
> should be angry, too, but that emotion has been used up.  Just had a bone scan.
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> The tech didn't elaborate  but went on to say that my dr. would be contacting
> me to explain.
Kaye301 - 26 Nov 2003 03:42 GMT
Marianne wrote:<< Keep in mind that arthritic activity also generally shows up
on bone scans,
so it is still possible that's what it is. I've heard that arthritis
generally shows up in the joints.>>

I do hope that is 'all that it is' but do wonder why the previously identified
arthritic activity which has shown up on x-rays and was identified as such
before anything appeared on my lower back, shoulder, and I think hip isn't even
mentioned.  Something is very 'wrong' with this picture, me thinks...
Alex - 25 Nov 2003 20:48 GMT
.'
> If it is only arthritic activity as I have been told, why didn't and hasn't the
> arthritic activity that had shown up in my wrists, knees, and ankles show up,
> too?  

Arthritis can occur in a single joint or effect many joints...I think
the xray tech was saying the same thing "usuall" or "hot" spots would
equal arthritic activity. How is the insurance company holding out ?
it sounds like you have gotten tons of xrays and meds already ...if
this is mets it it going to be changing your treatment plan ?
Congrads on completing the walk....hoping for the best outcome on your
bone scan....and I think the most definative way to know about bone
mets is bone marrow aspiration...perhaps this could give you some
piece of mind one way or the other. ALex
Kaye301 - 26 Nov 2003 03:58 GMT
Alex wrote: << How is the insurance company holding out ?>>

Well, my thoughts about that were stirred by my onc's comment last Spring when
I asked how one differentiated bone mets from arthritis--he did not answer my
question.  Rather, he stated it doesn't matter, statistically in terms of long
term survival if one treats mets for 3 years or waits a year and treats for
two.  That is NOT what the latest research findings suggest re. bone or spinal
mets.  Early treatment CAN improve survival.  And, if one uses bisphosphonates
from the start, bone mets may even be prevented.  Unfortunately, it takes a
long time before research findings are translated into standard treatment
protocol.

<<it sounds like you have gotten tons of xrays and meds already ..>>  No
argument there--just wondering about the interpretation re. the former

<<if
this is mets it it going to be changing your treatment plan ?>>

I think I would be able to get a bisphosphonate (Zometa) monthly and wonder
about getting back on Herceptin.

<<Congrads on completing the walk>>

Thanks, I am still on a high from that!  Somewhere there should be pics online
from that, but haven't yet looked or been notified where they would be.  I did
earn the distinction of having the biggest blister they'd ever seen.   I was
debating on whether or not to check what might be going on.  It was the last
day and last 'rest' station.  There was a medical tent set up.  I wasn't sure I
wanted to bother and even try taking my sock(s) off.  However, since I had a
clean pair on me, finally decided to check.  I had moleskin over the area and
was quite surprised to see a mound underneath.  At first I thought the moleskin
had slipped and bunced up.  That did not happen--there  was a large oval
blister--about  2-inches wide by 1-inch long on the inner part next to my heal.
They lanced it, put some antibiotic cream on it, and bandaged it.  It hurt
even more at first after they did that but do think it did feel better after
awhile.  Some gal took a picture of it and posted it on-line.  I recall her
saying something about doing that and had asked for my email address.  She had
told me hers but with my memory had not only forgotten her address but also
that she had even taken a picture.   We had a good laugh over that.  

<<....hoping for the best outcome on your
bone scan....and I think the most definative way to know about bone
mets is bone marrow aspiration...perhaps this could give you some
piece of mind one way or the other. >>

I had asked if they'd do that at the time of my hysterectomy last year--but the
dr. wouldn't do it and none of the other dr's I spoke with were interested in
doing it.
J - 27 Nov 2003 02:27 GMT
> The areas which have shown up as increased intensity still did--in the L4/L5
> region of my lumbar spine.    She also showed me the spots on my
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> arthritic activity that had shown up in my wrists, knees, and ankles show up,
> too?

My arthritis specialist told me that pain shows up long before the arthritis shows
up on various scans.
They only imaged my right shoulder with ultrasound and some type of bone scan. No
MRI nor PET and they assume my left has the same problem(s).  Which I am sure it is
arthritis (etc) only.

On the other hand, mets can occur in the shoulder
http://www.info-implants.com/Quebec/Jacinthe/01.html
I forget the exact specifics. I think she had implants, cancer was later discovered
in her right breast. so the right implant was removed during mastectomy, but either
MRI's weren't accessible to her back then or they did not realize that mammograms
were no good with implants.  Anyway, IIRC they (the gov't or doctors ) refused to
pay for removal of the left implant. A year or so later, these bumps started out
her left shoulder.  She died a year or so later...mets from the left breast. I
think.
So anything's possible, I guess.
MRI is supposed to examine soft tissue?
Hugs
J
Kaye301 - 27 Nov 2003 08:45 GMT
J, I hear ya--anything is possible.  I guess some of my concerns are based on
the following:
As you know I first began experiencing pain in my left shoulder in October 2002
(on10-31-02 to be exact for no known trauma or other identifiable cause.  I
first reported it my oncology appt. in 11/02.  Intermittent shoulder pain
continued of mixed severity until 8-7-03 at which time I began to experience
daily pain in both my shoulder and upper left arm (after light gardening in
which opposite arm was used most) of great intensity at times.  Although the
pain has improved after intervention which has included cortsone injection,
osteoporosis prevention bisphosphonate, and increaed dosage of Celebrex to
maximum safe dosage (up to 800 mg/day),  I/we are most concerned as to the
cause.  No single cause has yet to be determined.  I have been bounced around
between physicians and a physical therapist who are each working within their
own specialty, without coordination of information or relevant data in regard
to my high risk for metastases/recurrence in light of pathology of cancer dx in
3/01.    If this is in any way cancer related we would expect timely diagnosis
in order to allow optimal and most timely intervention to maximize both quality
of life and life expectancy, irregardless of misused and outdated statistics.
1)
http://www.nethealthbook.com/rheumatologicaldisease_shoulderpain.html
"Tumors in the shoulder: One of the causes of shoulder pain can be a tumor,
either benign or malignant, that is growing in the shoulder blade or the upper
end of the humerus. Benign cysts are not uncommon. Unfortunately, malignant
tumors can also be found and are not uncommon either. Osteosarcoma is one of
the common malignant tumors, but kidney cancer and breast cancer are common
cancers that tend to metastasize into the humerus bone and the shoulder blade.
About 18% of breast cancer patients develop humerus metastases (Ref. 5). More
details can be found under the above links regarding these malignancies.
Usually there is pain in a shoulder with metastasis or a primary bone tumor in
the humerus or scapula. X-rays, CT, MRI scans, or bone scans might suggest a
tumor. However, only tissue diagnosis such as a bone biopsy under CT guidance
with pathological analysis will confirm this diagnosis. An orthopedic surgeon
and likely an oncologist need to be consulted to help with all of this and the
appropriate treatments.
Disclaimer:
 This outline is only a teaching aid to patients and should stimulate you to
ask the right questions when seeing your doctor. However, the responsibility of
treatment stays in the hands of your doctor and you"

2)http://www.tri-x.com/Info/Histories.html
"Breast Cancer - 1
A. History
*    A 40-year-old female with breast cancer had a lumpectomy along with
chemo/radiation therapy one year ago. The patient began to experience pain in
the right shoulder two months ago.
B. Original Diagnosis
*    A bone scan was negative. A CT Scan was initially read as negative.

C. PET Diagnosis

*    A Whole Body PET Scan found numerous lymph node metastases in the upper
chest.

D. Change in Treatment

*    The treatment plan based on conventional diagnostic techniques would
have been watchful waiting. Thee PET Scan found a number of lymph node
metastases, and the patient was put back on chemo/radiation therapy. A re-read
of the CT after PET still could not accurately gauge extend of disease."

3)
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cache:AwBxV8uFI3QJ:www.cfps.org.sg/progra
mmes/fmmc/modules/module3/module3B/module3B1/2003_M3B1all.doc+shoulder+%22
breast+cancer%22+metastases+hand+cramp&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

"Between visits with your doctor, watch for signs of possible recurrence of
breast cancer. None of the following symptoms is a clear indication that the
cancer has recurred. It is important, though, to report any of these changes to
your doctor as soon as possible. Do not wait until your next scheduled
check-up. Possible signs that the cancer has come back are:  

*    changes you feel in a breast or in your scar during your breast
self-exam, especially thickenings, lumps, or inflammation
*    long-lasting pain in the shoulder, breast, hip, lower back, or pelvis
*    loss of appetite or unexplained weight loss or gain
*    digestive trouble such as nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea, or heartburn
that lasts for several days
*    changes in your menstrual period
*    long-lasting dizziness, blurred vision, severe and frequent headaches,
or difficulty walking
*    long-lasting coughing or hoarseness. "

I am still hoping for the best!
 
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