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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / May 2008

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Lumpectomy vs.Mastectomy

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judy.n - 13 May 2008 02:58 GMT
Les,
 I got a preliminary path report today: 1.8 cm invasive ductal
carcinoma, Grade 2. Too early for receptors. The surgeon would prefer
a mastectomy, as she thinks a lumpectomy and radiation wouldn't be
cosmetically okay--too much deformity with the tissue to breast ratio.
 She'd prefer a mastectomy with reconstruction, but I asked her to
speed up the process as my daughter is getting married in less than a
month. So, I'm getting an MRI, axillary ultrasound and bone scan
tomorrow.
 She'll run all the information by the tumor board and call me on
Thursday. We have surgery scheduled for Friday--I requested the quick
surgery.
 I'm debating the options: 1) lumpectomy + radiation=a possibly
"deformed" breast, and the need for radiation and continued monitoring
vs. 2) mastectomy with later reconstruction if I want it--means more
surgery if I opt for reconstruction and I'm not sure if it means more
possibility of lymphedema, but no need for radiation.
 My family and surgeon lean toward mastectomy, but there's a visceral
part of me that doesn't want to loose a body part, which is at war
with the fact that I don't want radiation and the need for constant
survelliance, since routine mammogram didn't pick this up--I did, and
I'd have to be always on the look out.
 My surgeon was upfront that mortality is the same with either
option--but is morbidity?
 My goal is to live without cancer--which is the better choice?
Judy
xela56 - 13 May 2008 03:19 GMT
> Les,
>  I got a preliminary path report today: 1.8 cm invasive ductal
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>  My goal is to live without cancer--which is the better choice?
> Judy

First of all having breast cancer is not a medical emergency, it was 6 weeks
from the time of my diagnosis to mastectomy.  I took a vacation prior to
surgery. With your daughter getting married  why not wait until after the
wedding?

Remember with lumpectomy, there is a chance that they will not get clean
margins and that you could have a local recurrence down the road.  The
recovery is quicker with a lumpectomy. In the long run it is a personal
choice.

Why do get a second opinion?  Are you seeing a breast surgeon ? Initially I
went a good general surgeon but opted to go to a breast surgeon, I found
comfort in someone who only operated in breasts.  What does the oncologist
say?

The risk of lymphedema has been minimized with the routine use of sentinel
node biopsy. I don't think reconstruction increases the risk of lymphedema
since it is bases on the node disection.

You could get the lumpectomy and see how the results are, they can also do
the sentinel node biopsy at the same time to see if the disease has spread.

Current practice is not to have a bone scan prior the surgery...are you have
symptoms?
judy.n - 13 May 2008 03:56 GMT
> > Les,
> >  I got a preliminary path report today: 1.8 cm invasive ductal
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
> Current practice is not to have a bone scan prior the surgery...are you have
> symptoms?
I've been having some joint pains, so she wanted to just do it to make
sure. I know it's not an emergency, but I'm finding that the limbo is
psychologically very difficult for me. I'm the one who begged her to
act quickly.

You had a mastectomy, did you have any side effects from it?

I am seeing a breast surgeon--I was going to ask her about speaking to
the radiation oncologist about side effects from the radiation and her
thoughts on lymphedema.
 They are planning a sentienel node, no matter which option we chose.
Judy
Tim Jackson - 13 May 2008 09:24 GMT
> Les,
>   I got a preliminary path report today: 1.8 cm invasive ductal
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>   My goal is to live without cancer--which is the better choice?
> Judy

Mastectomy undoubtedly.  With lumpectomy there is a higher chance of
local recurrence or of the need for further surgery, although the
overall outcomes are equivalent.

I don't know of any difference in lymphedema risk.

The reaction against changes in body image is normal.  But how much
difference there is in reality depends on the size of the breast and the
size and location of the cancer, and of course the success of the surgery.

It's an individual decision to be made in consultation with the surgeon.
 You also need to think seriously about what the change really means to
your life in practice.  Either way you can probably forget that ambition
to be a Playboy centrefold.  But neither means you can't have a
perfectly healthy sex life, with or without reconstruction.

Tim
Mary Fisher - 13 May 2008 10:09 GMT
...

> The reaction against changes in body image is normal.  But how much
> difference there is in reality depends on the size of the breast and the
> size and location of the cancer, and of course the success of the surgery.

Yes. I first wanted an all-off but decided against such mutilation. My
lumpectomy scar shows in low cut clothing but so what? It's very neat, just
a thin silver line. Only when I bend over and my breast hangs down can a
depression be seen. The affected breast is slightly smaller than the other
but it doesn't bother me, I can't believe that anyone's looking! If they
were and thought I looked odd, well that's their problem, not mine :-)

>  You also need to think seriously about what the change really means to
> your life in practice.  Either way you can probably forget that ambition
> to be a Playboy centrefold.  But neither means you can't have a perfectly
> healthy sex life, with or without reconstruction.

It made absolutely no difference to our lovemaking.  My husband's
prostatectomy has made things more difficult but even that's not
insurmountable.

The alternative, however, would have, in both cases.

Mary
Mary Fisher - 13 May 2008 11:41 GMT
...

>  My goal is to live without cancer--which is the better choice?

Judy, have you ever considered how you'd advise one of your patients if s/he
asked you that question?

Mary
judy.n - 13 May 2008 22:06 GMT
> ...
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Mary
Mary, I send them to the breast surgeon, I figure they have the
information. Now, the surgeon tells me that the mortality is the same--
I just have to figure out the morbidity, and I have an appointment to
speak to the radiation oncologist, spent the day getting a breast MRI/
axillary ultrasound--no nodes to aspirate, and bone scan--negative per
the kind tech.
 I called the plastic surgeon's office to figure out what he does
with expanders, and it just isn't a course I'd go down.
 So I know what I won't do--reconstruction, just not which surgery to
do. The breast surgeon is taking all the information to the tumor
board and calling me with the info Thursday pm, and we'll figure out
which surgery will occur on Friday--simple mastectomy vs. lumpectomy,
my husband and I still swing between them, but we figure after the
meeting with the radiologist and the results from tumor board, we'll
have an answer.
Judy
Judy
xela56 - 13 May 2008 22:59 GMT
> Mary
Mary, I send them to the breast surgeon, I figure they have the
information. Now, the surgeon tells me that the mortality is the same--
I just have to figure out the morbidity, and I have an appointment to
speak to the radiation oncologist, spent the day getting a breast MRI/
axillary ultrasound--no nodes to aspirate, and bone scan--negative per
the kind tech.
 I called the plastic surgeon's office to figure out what he does
with expanders, and it just isn't a course I'd go down.
 So I know what I won't do--reconstruction, just not which surgery to
do. The breast surgeon is taking all the information to the tumor
board and calling me with the info Thursday pm, and we'll figure out
which surgery will occur on Friday--simple mastectomy vs. lumpectomy,
my husband and I still swing between them, but we figure after the
meeting with the radiologist and the results from tumor board, we'll
have an answer.
Judy
Judy

I have had no side effects what so ever from the mastectomy. I had a tram
flap with a breast reduction done in my "good" breast.  I did have my
initial treatment at the Dana  Farber, and I was offer options that my local
community MD did not have a clue. I had AC with a higher dose of adriaymcin
which later was the standard of care. I was also informed about bone loss
before that became the standard treatment.

What ever your decison it will be the right one, I find have reconstruction
I don't have to worry when I go swimming.
The only issue I have had is when I go have my mammogram, they don't believe
me when I tell them I had a mastectomy!
Mary Fisher - 14 May 2008 09:44 GMT
On May 13, 6:41 am, "Mary Fisher" <mary.fis...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> "judy.n" <judy.nudel...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Mary

Mary, I send them to the breast surgeon, I figure they have the
information.

Well yes, but sometimes patients want - need - immediate comfort from their
first call health professional.

Now, the surgeon tells me that the mortality is the same--
I just have to figure out the morbidity, and I have an appointment to
speak to the radiation oncologist, spent the day getting a breast MRI/
axillary ultrasound--no nodes to aspirate, and bone scan--negative per
the kind tech.

Good.

 I called the plastic surgeon's office to figure out what he does
with expanders, and it just isn't a course I'd go down.

No, I wouldn't have wanted that either.

 So I know what I won't do--reconstruction,

I think you're right - but very many people here wanted it. I siomply didn't
want more surgery than necessary, life's too short :-)

> just not which surgery to
do. The breast surgeon is taking all the information to the tumor
board and calling me with the info Thursday pm, and we'll figure out
which surgery will occur on Friday--simple mastectomy vs. lumpectomy,
my husband and I still swing between them, but we figure after the
meeting with the radiologist and the results from tumor board, we'll
have an answer.

Let us know, and plese don't agonise too much.

Hugs,

Mary
judy.n - 14 May 2008 13:20 GMT
> On May 13, 6:41 am, "Mary Fisher" <mary.fis...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
>
> Mary
Thanks, I got a good night's sleep after all the testing, and feel so
much better. My cousin is a wonderful MSW, and she tried for an hour
to help me make a decision, and then told me to rest and let it come
to me.

I spoke to the breast surgeon last night, she was tired--surgery all
day and night clinic, and she still has her bias toward mastectomy
with reconstruction (I haven't told her I wouldn't do reconstruction--
partly because I hadn't gone on the reconstruction web site yet when
we spoke.) She's kind and thoughtful and we discussed lymphedema--5%
risk with sentinel node bx, 16% with axillary dissection.
 Some of these surgery decisions are making a decision with all facts
available--lymph node status will only be clear after surgery.
 I'm the one who called the radiation oncologist on my own, and she
came to the phone herself at 7 am, was really kind, and set up a
consult for tomorrow. The more facts we have, the more we can make a
decision.
 My daughter knows that I think a wedding is important, but I think a
marriage is infinitely more important. I love her fiance, and he's
been part of our lives for many years. Whether or not I dance at her
wedding is not crucial--I want to be there, but if I'm sitting down
the whole time, and have to leave early, they still know how much I
love them.
 I don't buy the concept that your wedding is the most important day
of your life: it's a celebration of love, but a wonderful marriage is
your life.
 I'm pushing along partly because of the wedding, and mainly for my
own need to do something. I teach at the medical school, and the
course directory,whose mother had breast cancer diagnosed 12 years
ago, wrote to tell me the she agreed with the push. Also, that my
students are covered for the last two weeks of the semester.
 My gyn--who has been a disappointment--refused to guide me, "that's
the surgeon's decision".
 I talked to the surgeon yesterday, and told her I was still on the
fence--but part of me is leaning toward lumpectomy, get the final path
and then make a final decision--and part of me says take it all out,
and my husband is less scared, and more able to try and help with the
decision. His mother had a radical mastectomy when he was a high
school senior.
 I told the surgeon that I went to medical school in Pittsburgh,
where Bernie Fischer pioneered the concept of breast conserving
surgery. Also, ironically, I worked with Thomas Starzl there, and my
mother had a liver transplant.
 I'm going to just try and process for the next day, wait for the
tumor board info--receptors, MRI result--and try and figure out what
my "gut" response is. Meeting the the radiation oncologist will be
helpful as well.
 Thanks for the hugs.
  Not sure what this means, but walking into the hospital, I met an
older gynecologist who I've worked with for years, I told him why I
was there. He told me his wife died of breast cancer, but it was
widely spread when discovered. I told him I felt it while reaching to
turn off the bedside lamp. He held both my hands and told me that a
higher power was watching over me, and he was going to be thinking of
me. A very tender and unexpected moment as I was entering for a day of
miserable testing.
 Any kindness is so wonderful right now.
Judy
Mary Fisher - 14 May 2008 14:09 GMT
> Thanks, I got a good night's sleep after all the testing, and feel so
much better. My cousin is a wonderful MSW, and she tried for an hour
to help me make a decision, and then told me to rest and let it come
to me.

You're certainly sounding much less panicky, that's good.

> I spoke to the breast surgeon last night, she was tired--surgery all
day and night clinic, and she still has her bias toward mastectomy
with reconstruction (I haven't told her I wouldn't do reconstruction--
partly because I hadn't gone on the reconstruction web site yet when
we spoke.) She's kind and thoughtful and we discussed lymphedema--5%
risk with sentinel node bx, 16% with axillary dissection.

I haven't seen any figures before this and I still think it sounds a bit
high (based on all the bc survivors I know and there are lots) but at least
it confirms that lympho is not guaranteed :-)

>  Some of these surgery decisions are making a decision with all facts
available--lymph node status will only be clear after surgery.
 I'm the one who called the radiation oncologist on my own, and she
came to the phone herself at 7 am, was really kind, and set up a
consult for tomorrow. The more facts we have, the more we can make a
decision.

 My daughter knows that I think a wedding is important, but I think a
marriage is infinitely more important. I love her fiance, and he's
been part of our lives for many years. Whether or not I dance at her
wedding is not crucial--I want to be there, but if I'm sitting down
the whole time, and have to leave early, they still know how much I
love them.

I think you WILL dance at her wedding. You're not going to be ill. Here in
UK I was in hospital for my lumpectomy for five days, I think it's more or
less day surgery in USA. The surgery itself can knock the stuffing out of
you but anaesthesia is so good these days that you'll probably hardly know
you've had it. The worst part, for me, was not drinking for some time before
it but I think that's changing too. If you feel drained when you come round
it won't last more than a few hours.

Honestly.

>  I don't buy the concept that your wedding is the most important day
of your life: it's a celebration of love, but a wonderful marriage is
your life.

I agree. We're coming up to our fiftieth anniversary :-)

>  I'm pushing along partly because of the wedding, and mainly for my
own need to do something. I teach at the medical school, and the
course directory,whose mother had breast cancer diagnosed 12 years
ago, wrote to tell me the she agreed with the push. Also, that my
students are covered for the last two weeks of the semester.

That's very useful to know.

>  I talked to the surgeon yesterday, and told her I was still on the
fence--but part of me is leaning toward lumpectomy, get the final path
and then make a final decision--and part of me says take it all out,
and my husband is less scared, and more able to try and help with the
decision. His mother had a radical mastectomy when he was a high
school senior.

Well, I'd prefer lumpectomy but I believe mastectomy is easier for the
surgeon :-) Those in my ward who had mastectomy were more sprightly after
their surgery than the rest of us were - for a short time.

>  I'm going to just try and process for the next day, wait for the
tumor board info--receptors, MRI result--and try and figure out what
my "gut" response is. Meeting the the radiation oncologist will be
helpful as well.

I didn't have that option, not that it mattered.

>   Not sure what this means, but walking into the hospital, I met an
older gynecologist who I've worked with for years, I told him why I
was there. He told me his wife died of breast cancer, but it was
widely spread when discovered. I told him I felt it while reaching to
turn off the bedside lamp. He held both my hands and told me that a
higher power was watching over me, and he was going to be thinking of
me. A very tender and unexpected moment as I was entering for a day of
miserable testing.

The testing needn't be miserable - take an interest in it for your own,
personal, sake and so that you're better informed professionally.

>  Any kindness is so wonderful right now.

Well, this isn't meant as a kindness but I want to thank you for restoring
this ng to its usual lively state. It's been in the doldrums for some time.

And keep posting to let us know what's going on, your decisions, your
experiences and your feelings throughout.

More good hugs (because for a while afterwards they'll have to be VERY
gentle!)

Mary
downwinder - 13 May 2008 22:08 GMT
> Les,
>   I got a preliminary path report today: 1.8 cm invasive ductal
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>   My goal is to live without cancer--which is the better choice?
> Judy

Judy,

First off, sorry, but then you must be getting sick of hearing that!
Your one tumor is about the same size as my two tumors put together.
Things are happening much faster for you; what awful timing with your
daughter's wedding.  Can you tell us the pathology grade, i.e. the
tubules, nuclear and mitosis?  Those are factors that should tell you
how much of a hurry you need to be in.

I still have no idea whether I'll be recommended for a mastectomy or
lumpectomy.  My first surgeon appointment is over two weeks away.  My
tumors are about an inch and a half apart, but my breast is quite
large and bigger than the other one, so I could easily stand to lose a
quarter of it.  But the larger tumor (1.2 cm.) is ominously close to
my underarm.  I'm glad someone mentioned sex life, I'm concerned about
that.

That is an awful choice to make, in such a short time.  The program
I'm on probably wouldn't cover an implant, so in the case of a
mastectomy I'd be looking at a trip to India for reconstruction.  I
can't face having just one size D boob.

Does anyone know if a mastectomy is more likely in the case of two
tumors?

Les
Tim Jackson - 13 May 2008 23:50 GMT
>   I'm glad someone mentioned sex life, I'm concerned about
> that.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Les

Yes, I believe so.  For one thing, if is has already happened in more
than one place, who's to say it hasn't happened in more places, only
they haven't shown up yet.

With regard to the sex life, my wife had one size D boob and a
prosthesis, and we got used to it. I can't say it was the easiest thing,
but we still had fun. I know it took her longer to come to terms with
her new shape than it did me.  I knew we'd got there when I would find
myself naturally caressing her scar during lovemaking.

Tim
Greta - 14 May 2008 01:52 GMT
I had a right mastectomy in 2004 and have not had any side effects. I opted
not to have reconstruction - did not want more surgery and have not been
sorry. I use a soft prosthesis in a regular bra.
Greta
x{yz}enophil44@hotmail.com - 14 May 2008 09:52 GMT
>I had a right mastectomy in 2004 and have not had any side effects. I opted
>not to have reconstruction - did not want more surgery and have not been
>sorry. I use a soft prosthesis in a regular bra.

Me too.  But I hate wearing the prosthesis, even though it's much better
than the horrible huge heavy thing they gave me and only wear it when
I'm going out of the house and not always then.  How I wish someone
would invent the one-boob  bra.

I wish someone had offered me reconstruction at the same time, but I
can't have it now because other health problems make surgery unwise.
Signature

"It's easier to get forgiveness than permission."
Rear Admiral "Amazing" Grace Hopper

sarahz@rocketmail.com - 14 May 2008 19:07 GMT
On May 14, 3:52 am, x{yz}enophi...@hotmail.com wrote:
>  How I wish someone
> would invent the one-boob  bra.

You might contact Decent Exposures. They are in the Seattle area, but
are mostly a phone and mail order place and they do have a good web
site.
After my "wide-excisional lumpectomy" (the original lumpectomy did not
get clear margins), I ended up with one breast much smaller than the
other. I worked with them and for years they have custom made me bras
with two different cup sizes. Initially I had to buy several sizes,
try them on, and talk with the folks there about options. But, they
were great with suggestions and took all the try-ons back, no problem.
Once we settled on a good fit, they made a custom pattern that they
keep on hand so that I can reorder easily. They are a little on the
expensive side, but the bras are very good quality and last me a very
long time.
Mary Fisher - 15 May 2008 09:29 GMT
On May 14, 3:52 am, x{yz}enophi...@hotmail.com wrote:
> How I wish someone
> would invent the one-boob bra.

You might contact Decent Exposures. They are in the Seattle area, but
are mostly a phone and mail order place and they do have a good web
site.
After my "wide-excisional lumpectomy" (the original lumpectomy did not
get clear margins), I ended up with one breast much smaller than the
other. I worked with them and for years they have custom made me bras
with two different cup sizes. Initially I had to buy several sizes,
try them on, and talk with the folks there about options. But, they
were great with suggestions and took all the try-ons back, no problem.
Once we settled on a good fit, they made a custom pattern that they
keep on hand so that I can reorder easily. They are a little on the
expensive side, but the bras are very good quality and last me a very
long time.

Worth visiting Seattle then, Geraldine :-)

Lovely place, take advantage of cheap air fares.

!!!

Mary
ddstrauss@gmail.com - 15 May 2008 17:23 GMT
> <sar...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Mary

The discussion about surgeons and the discussion about lymphedema may
have a relationship.  My surgeon was a general surgeon who did many
breast operations at a major medical center, and he said they had 15%
lymphedema vs. the usual 25% because of expertise.  He was talking
about the center as a whole, not only himself.

This example may be a reason to get the best surgeon you can and ask
specific questions about those percentages.
Deb
Mary Fisher - 15 May 2008 18:24 GMT
On May 15, 3:29 am, "Mary Fisher" <mary.fis...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> <sar...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Mary

The discussion about surgeons and the discussion about lymphedema may
have a relationship.  My surgeon was a general surgeon who did many
breast operations at a major medical center, and he said they had 15%
lymphedema vs. the usual 25% because of expertise.  He was talking
about the center as a whole, not only himself.

This example may be a reason to get the best surgeon you can and ask
specific questions about those percentages.
Deb

Um - I don't dispute that but what has it to do with my tongue in cheek
advice to xenophil?

:-)

Mary
xela56 - 15 May 2008 18:29 GMT
The discussion about surgeons and the discussion about lymphedema may
have a relationship.  My surgeon was a general surgeon who did many
breast operations at a major medical center, and he said they had 15%
lymphedema vs. the usual 25% because of expertise.  He was talking
about the center as a whole, not only himself.

This example may be a reason to get the best surgeon you can and ask
specific questions about those percentages.
Deb

My breast surgeon cited less than 5%, I agree with more experience better
outcome, but a great question to ask.
downwinder - 15 May 2008 21:26 GMT
> The discussion about surgeons and the discussion about lymphedema may
> have a relationship.  My surgeon was a general surgeon who did many
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> My breast surgeon cited less than 5%, I agree with more experience better
> outcome, but a great question to ask.

The farther I get into this, the more questions pop up.  My first
doctor appointment is next Wednesday, so maybe you guys can help.
That appointment's with a surgeon in my local small town who's not a
specialist. He's been a doctor for 20 years and my physicians
assistant claims he's good enough.  My appointment the following
Wednesday is with a breast cancer specialist, but she has little
experience.  I was advised to go to both appointments and then
choose.

Looks like my surgery is a ways away.  I'm guessing, but apparently
the worse item on pathology report was the "Tubules 3" item.  Nuclear
2, and someone, Tim I believe said the Mitosis 1 was a good sign.  I'm
assuming I don't have to be in a big hurry.

I'm wondering how worried I should be about the issue of cells
spreading because of the biopsies.  It took some hard stabbing and
pushing to get the cores; it was like the shower scene from Psycho.
Judging by what I viewed on the ultrasound, plus the wounds and huge
bruise I still have 11 days later, I fear both lumps were turned into
mincement.  The shape of my palpable lump has completely changed.  Can
anyone reassure me about this?

On the issue of reconstruction, I have a possibly wacky idea.  People
have mentioned the strong possibility of a mastectomy for me, and how
irksome a large prosthesis can be.  I've never liked having big boobs
on my tall skinny body anyway, and an ideal solution would be if I
could get my OTHER boob reduced to half its size, maybe during the
same surgery.  Then I could dispense with reconstruction and be a lot
more comfortable with a prosthesis.  Am I dreaming, or has anyone
heard of this?  Last I heard a breast reduction is about 10 grand;
probably more now.  But for just one, done the same day as a
mastectomy, maybe it wouldn't be more than 5 grand extra.  Much less
than reconstruction, right?  Is there any use even asking those
doctors about this?

Maybe by now you know what kind of surgery you'll have, Judy.  You
know what they say, no matter what you decide, it will be the right
decision.  You're right, I'm finding out that there are a lot of sweet
people out there, like everyone in this forum.  I just wish I didn't
have to spend so much time reassuring my zillions of relatives.  Last
night I spent a half hour explaining to my sister why this isn't a
death sentence for her.

Thanks guys, for being so helpful and caring.

Les
Tim Jackson - 16 May 2008 09:08 GMT
> I'm wondering how worried I should be about the issue of cells
> spreading because of the biopsies.  It took some hard stabbing and
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> mincement.  The shape of my palpable lump has completely changed.  Can
> anyone reassure me about this?

I read some research somewhere which showed that biopsies didn't affect
the outcome or recurrence risk.  It does seem a bit counter-intuitive.
Part of it may be that the biopsy path will presumably be excised as
part of the lumpectomy, so any contamination will go too, part may be
that most tumour cells are not actually infectious, when a tumour
metastasises the shed cells are different from the main body.   It seems
that like most normal tissues, cancers have stem cells too.

> On the issue of reconstruction, I have a possibly wacky idea.  People
> have mentioned the strong possibility of a mastectomy for me, and how
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> than reconstruction, right?  Is there any use even asking those
> doctors about this?

Yes I've heard of it being done.  Ask away.  I think some insurance
covers such things, same as it covers 'regular' reconstruction.

Tim
R. Fizek - 16 May 2008 13:09 GMT
Hi,

I've heard of it being done at the time of reconstruction to make the
unaffected side match more closely the reconstructed side, whether it be a
lift or a scale down, it is pretty common.

Tamara

>> I'm wondering how worried I should be about the issue of cells
>> spreading because of the biopsies.  It took some hard stabbing and
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Tim
downwinder - 16 May 2008 20:27 GMT
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Tim and Tamara,

Thanks for the info.  I'd feel less apprehensive about the biopsies
shredding my lumps if my surgery was happening any time soon.  It
seems like a lot can happen in two months.  It's irritating that when
my sister had a lump a year ago, the entire thing was immediately
removed and came out benign.  My malignant tumors are minced and
beaten to a pulp, and left to fester for who knows how long.

Like I said, I'd be glad do without reconstruction if I could just get
my other boob reduced to half its size.  Remember I don't have health
insurance--just the bare-bones federal Breast Cancer Treatment
Program.  I'd have to go to India to afford reconstruction, but I
could probably afford one breast reduction here, especially if it
could somehow be done at the same time.  No doubt a plastic surgeon
would have to take over for that; I wonder if it's possible to have
two doctors work on you during one surgery?

Les
R. Fizek - 16 May 2008 23:37 GMT
Hi,

I don't know where you are but here in the US it is possible to have two
work at the same time.

Tamara

On May 16, 5:09 am, "R. Fizek" <fizkow...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Tim and Tamara,

Thanks for the info.  I'd feel less apprehensive about the biopsies
shredding my lumps if my surgery was happening any time soon.  It
seems like a lot can happen in two months.  It's irritating that when
my sister had a lump a year ago, the entire thing was immediately
removed and came out benign.  My malignant tumors are minced and
beaten to a pulp, and left to fester for who knows how long.

Like I said, I'd be glad do without reconstruction if I could just get
my other boob reduced to half its size.  Remember I don't have health
insurance--just the bare-bones federal Breast Cancer Treatment
Program.  I'd have to go to India to afford reconstruction, but I
could probably afford one breast reduction here, especially if it
could somehow be done at the same time.  No doubt a plastic surgeon
would have to take over for that; I wonder if it's possible to have
two doctors work on you during one surgery?

Les
downwinder - 17 May 2008 20:31 GMT
> Hi,
>
> I don't know where you are but here in the US it is possible to have two
> work at the same time.
>
> Tamara

Thanks Tamara, I live in California, about 80 miles north of
Sacramento.  I'll start calling plastic surgeons next week and see if
it's possible to have two surgeons at one surgery.  Of course it's
uncertain whether I'll have a mastectomy or what.  Maybe I'll have a
better idea after I talk to the breast specialist on the 28th.

Les

> On May 16, 5:09 am, "R. Fizek" <fizkow...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

I
R. Fizek - 17 May 2008 20:54 GMT
Hi Les,

You might want to confer with your surgeon, he/she might have someone who
they've worked with previously on the same type of issue.

Tamara

On May 16, 3:37 pm, "R. Fizek" <fizkow...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I don't know where you are but here in the US it is possible to have two
> work at the same time.
>
> Tamara

Thanks Tamara, I live in California, about 80 miles north of
Sacramento.  I'll start calling plastic surgeons next week and see if
it's possible to have two surgeons at one surgery.  Of course it's
uncertain whether I'll have a mastectomy or what.  Maybe I'll have a
better idea after I talk to the breast specialist on the 28th.

Les

> "downwinder" <desertny...@cwo.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 77 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

I
buffalobill - 19 May 2008 06:56 GMT
> Les,
>   I got a preliminary path report today: 1.8 cm invasive ductal
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>   My goal is to live without cancer--which is the better choice?
> Judy

buffalo ny: please choose life regardless of cosmetic consequences.
please make your personal medical choice to live, not for cosmetic
choice reasons.  my late wife sharon johnston had a different breast
cancer, with your similar choice. she chose lumpectomy for her nickel-
sized lump, with radiation and chemo, and survived 6 more years, died
of breast cancer. we don't know if mastectomy would have made any
difference, but  your loved ones sure do miss you when you're gone.
judy.n - 19 May 2008 12:25 GMT
> > Les,
> >   I got a preliminary path report today: 1.8 cm invasive ductal
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> of breast cancer. we don't know if mastectomy would have made any
> difference, but  your loved ones sure do miss you when you're gone.
I completely understand--the mastectomy was offered for cosmetic
reasons--that the lumpectomy would be too disfiguring, and and a
reconstruction would leave me with a a nicer looking breast.
 If the cancer has spread, and I need chemo, I'll get the mastectomy.
 Personally, I just needed the primary out with the node biopsy,
asap, and reserve the right to make further decisions as more info:
node status, vascular invasion, multifocal disease, oncogene are
available.
 I actually chose the least cosmetic option--and as I was in the
recovery room I told the breast surgeon again, that my goal is to
live, I seriously don't care how I look.
Judy
downwinder - 19 May 2008 21:03 GMT
> > > Les,
> > >   I got a preliminary path report today: 1.8 cm invasive ductal
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Judy,

I was going to ask you what happened with your nodes.  Is a node
biopsy routine now, without automatically removing lymph nodes?  What
about radiation?  I read about "partial breast irradiation" being used
on many women now, but so much of what I read is probably outdated.
Do you know yet whether you'll get chemotherapy, a tamoxifen-type
drug, or aromatase inhibitor?

Since your case is similar to mine in some respects, maybe what
happens to you can forewarn me as I go to my first surgeon appointment
Wednesday.  I've got a list of questions, and am hoping he doesn't
just try to hustle me out the door like most doctors do.  I called the
medical oncologist assigned to me 2 weeks ago, but of course no one
had sent a referral.

Buffalo, every statistic I've read says you're no less likely to
survive with lumpectomy/radiation than with a mastectomy.  That's very
sad and sobering about your wife.  Like Judy, I won't hesitate for a
minute to get a mastectomy if it's recommended.  If I could also get
my other breast reduced, something positive will come out of all this,
cuz I've never liked having big boobs.

Les
judy.n - 20 May 2008 19:18 GMT
> > > > Les,
> > > >   I got a preliminary path report today: 1.8 cm invasive ductal
[quoted text clipped - 70 lines]
>
> Les
Les, prior to surgery they looked for nodes to aspirate, and there
were none. During surgery, they removed 2 sentinel nodes and there was
a third one tucked between them that didn't light up on the geiger
counter, but was removed for proximity.
 Because my estrogen and progesterone receptor status are very
positive, I will go on tamoxifen, I'm pre-menopausal, and at some
point may switch to an aromatase inhibitor when I'm determined to be
definitely menopausal, Right now, it's presumed that I will have to
take tamoxifen for 5 years, at least.
 Currently, I'm waiting for the gross pathology report, the oncogene
dx report and the pathology of the nodes to know if I will need chemo.
 If I stick with just the lumpectomy, I will need radiation. My
breasts are too small for the brachotherapy one week partial breast
irradiation, but the radiation oncologist mentioned the possibility of
externally delivered partial breast irradiation.
 So, I'm feeling better from the surgery, waiting to hear about
pathology, because it will determine the next set of decisions/
treatment.
 I hope that helps.
 I just talked to a friend ( a nurse practitioner)  whose mother has
had two primary breast cancers, one in each breast, the first treated
with chemo and radiation and the second with just radiation. Both were
lumpectomies, and as she pointed out, even if her mother had had a
mastectomy as her initial treatment, it wouldn't have prevented the
second cancer in her other breast. Her mother is doing quite well.
 My friend has had lots of breast lump excisions due to her mother's
history, and has had some issues with her breast surgeon.
 I hope you get all your questions answered--and don't hesitate to
call back if more occur to you--you have that right, and that the
referral nonsense gets worked out.
Judy

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