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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / December 2006

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Toxic Breasts: a peek inside the breast implant industry

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Ilena Rose - 07 Dec 2006 20:35 GMT
http://www.implanttruth.jshood.com/links.html

BRAVO to Julie!

http://thenav.ca/index/news-app/story.470/title.toxic-breasts-a-peek-inside-the-
breast-implant-industry


Toxic Breasts: a peek inside the breast implant industry

By Julie Chadwick

November 22, 2006
Few aspects of the human anatomy have generated more hype, insecurity
and fetishization than the female breast. It has been used to sell
products; been the object of fame and obsession, and the cause of
wishful thinking and embarrassment. It has been pushed, lifted,
separated and prodded into every shape imaginable, as dictated by the
fickle face of fashion. However, nothing has been quite as dangerous
as the trend towards a surgically enhanced bust.
  The possibility of changing one’s “God-given” lot must have seemed
like a miracle to certain hopeful young women when the prospect of
breast implants first loomed in the early 1900s. These first
experimentations were not actually implants but injections—first with
paraffin, with disastrous results, and later with the patient’s own
fat tissue, which was quickly reabsorbed and left scarring and
unsightly lumps. Both methods were abandoned by the 1920’s and by the
middle of the century, the body ideal was moving away from the svelte
“flat” flapper and towards the curviness of the cheesecake pin-up.
With this shift came more pressure on women to conform to the ideal,
and subsequently created more desire for, and interest in, surgical
options.
  Medical knowledge gained during World War II, coupled with
technological advances with synthetics led surgeons to experiment with
the insertion of spongy polyurethane derivatives with names like
Surgifoam and Ivalon. These too, however, proved to be unsuccessful,
as breast tissue filled in the holes and contracted around the sponge,
often reducing it to a hard lump that was difficult to extricate.
  Inspired by Japanese prostitutes that were injecting silicone
directly into their breasts in an attempt to attract American sailors,
doctors in the US began to experiment with liquid silicone.
  Through the 50s and 60s, this practice became popular with topless
dancers in Las Vegas and San Francisco. Its use became more widespread
as, initially, it appeared to be a less-invasive procedure that any
doctor could do. It is estimated that anywhere from at least 12,000 to
50,000 women received silicone injections during its period of
popularity, which began to wane in the mid-60’s. It wasn’t long before
complications associated with the injection of silicone began to set
in.
  Some of the noted clear-cut effects were pain, skin discoloration,
edema, ulceration and necrosis, calcification, granulomas, migration
of the fluid, infection, cysts, axillary adenopathy, disfigurement and
loss of the breast, liver granulomas and dysfunction, acute
pneumonitis or adult respiratory distress syndrome, pulmonary
embolism, coma, and death.
 As Frank Gerow and Thomas Cronin, two plastic surgeons from Texas,
were developing the first silicone breast implant in 1961, there was
already some dissent from within the ranks. On Jan. 24 of that same
year, Ethel Mullison, the Staff Associate from the Dow Corning Center
for Aid to Medical Research, sent a memo to Cronin. In the letter, she
states that there are problems with silicone being “injected directly
into the body,” and that “if enclosed within a silicone bag, the
fluids would tend to diffuse out through the walls of the silicone
rubber and be absorbed into the tissues.”
  This problem came to be known as ‘bleed’ - the tendency of silicone
to ooze out of its protective shell (also made of silicone) and behave
exactly like silicone injections - with all of the attendant
complications.
  The first woman to receive silicone breast implants was Timmie Jean
Lindsey, in 1962, and the following year Dow Corning began selling
their Silastic brand of implants, without any long term testing or
monitoring of their effects in humans.
  By 1976, the state of Nevada felt compelled to make the practice of
injecting silicone a felony. Today, it is not approved by the FDA for
any cosmetic use.
  As silicone made the journey from injections to implantations, many
of the earlier problems and complications proved difficult to shake.
Controversy over the safety of silicone dogged the breast augmentation
industry every step of the way.
     The awareness of potential health threats associated with breast
implants rocketed its way into the public consciousness when Dow
Corning was hit with multiple lawsuits in the early 90’s. However, Dow
had been quietly fighting complaints and court actions for a long
time.
  In 1976, an amendment enacted by the FDA granted the Administration
new power to regulate medical devices. However, it was a little too
late for implants—they had already been on the market for a number of
years, and as a result had been “grandfathered” into the system.
  The first court settlement was quietly awarded in 1977, to the tune
of $170,000 (US). Another case against Dow Corning was subsequently
won in 1984, for over $1.5 million (US), during which numerous
internal company documents and memos were leaked. By 1988 the FDA
jumped into action and recategorized breast implants as a high-risk
product. They set a deadline for manufacturers to prove the safety of
implants by July of 1991.
  By the time the deadline arrived, another settlement was awarded
—the largest yet—of $5.4 million. By September of that same year, the
evidence that was submitted to the FDA was determined insufficient to
judge whether breast implants were safe or unsafe, and they were
required to submit further data. Three months later another case
against Dow Corning was won, with $7.3 million awarded. Another 137
lawsuits were pending. In 1992, the FDA clamped down and severely
limit the use of silicone breast implants.
  By 1995, Dow Corning was facing some 20,000 lawsuits and a global
settlement suit in which about 440,000 women had registered. Dow filed
for bankruptcy.  
  The court heard plaintiffs’ testify that their ruptured and leaking
implants were causing them a range of health problems including joint
pain, headaches, autoimmune diseases, connective tissue diseases,
arthritic-like conditions, chronic fatigue, muscle pain, and
dizziness.
  The verdict seemed to be that there were grave problems with the
use of silicone from the beginning, and that it’s containment within a
silicone bag did little to limit it’s adverse effects within the body.
This was the conclusion of not only the growing numbers of “implant
survivors” but that of a growing body of experts as well.
  Dr. Pierre Blais was the former Senior Scientific Advisor for
Canada’s now-defunct Department of Health and Welfare for fourteen
years. He now runs Innoval Consultants, a firm engaged in the design,
testing and failure analysis of high risk medical systems
  In his line of work he has examined over 7,000 cases of
explantation, from which they have recovered over 9,000 different
implants. Blais says they’ve seen “every single type that has ever
been used worldwide. Some are as old as the 1950’s.”
“[They’re] mostly of US  manufacturing origin because they dominate
the field.” Blais continues: “what we’re seeing is an unprecedented
degree of poor quality. It doesn’t matter where you get them from, it
doesn’t matter when they were put in, what we see consistently across
all years and all types is very poor quality, frequent manufacturing
defects, and in almost all cases, major problems that arose as a
result of the implant. At the very least, a poor appearance; at the
very worst, death.
  “We  have a very substantial number of these implants which were
removed at death. We call that necropsy.”
  In October of this year, Health Canada made a strange move - the
decision to lift the restrictions on silicone implants that have been
in place for over fifteen years, specifically for two corporations -
Inamed and Mentor.  What has changed between  the early 90’s—when the
ban was put into effect—and now?
  Health Canada’s Dr. Supriya Sharma told CTV Newsnet on Oct. 20 of
this year that there have been many changes since the early 90’s in
terms of how silicone implants are manufactured.
     “It’s an illusion,” stresses Blais. “Basically, the technology’s
exactly the same, the materials are still the same […] the same people
who were around in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s making breast implants are
still around. Only the names of the companies have changed as a result
of multiple acquisitions, bankruptcies, problems, movement of the
company abroad and so on.”
  Sharma went on to say that Health Canada believed that because the
gel inside and the layers on the outside of silicone breast implants
is now thicker, it is a safer product than it was in the 90’s. Blais
disagrees.
  “It’s a total misconception,” explains Blais. First of all, “there
is no such thing as ‘silicone’ in the singular. It’s thousands of
different compounds, mixed very much like rubbers. [...] There is
enormous variations between silicones. It’s no more descriptive a term
[to say silicone] than it is to say, ‘rubber’.
   “In the case of breast implants, even the process to make breast
implants does not ensure uniformity from implant to implant of the
same batch, and we have instances where the silicones are from the
same implant and yet have different properties from point to point.
It’s extremely variable.”  
  This makes it very difficult to determine the safety of silicone
implants and how they behave in a woman’s body, says Blais. Even if
there had been long-term testing or studies done in the 60s before
silicone breast implants went on the market, Blais says that “the
studies would apply specifically, only, to the batch of product that
has been studied. It would not apply to anything before, and most
probably nothing after.”
  How is it, then, that Health Canada managed to approve silicone
implants with confidence?
  They cite reviews from the UK and  the US that conclude there is
“no evidence of a causal relationship between silicone gel-filled
implants and a number of auto-immune diseases or other systemic
illnesses.” They also cite a Canadian study that “showed that women
undergoing cosmetic breast augmentation do not appear to be at an
increased long-term risk of developing cancer,” and a publication
published in an American journal that showed that “women undergoing
cosmetic breast augmentation do not appear to be at an increased
long-term risk of developing cancer.”
  They also established an Expert Advisory Panel to advise Health
Canada in their decision.
  The integrity of the Expert Advisory Panel was called into question
in early Nov. of 2005. The Canadian Medical Association Journal (CMAJ)
reported that Nanaimo/Cowichan MP Jean Crowder was calling for the
removal of three of the panel members because all three had either
worked for, or accepted money from  Inamed and Mentor. These were the
very companies who’s breast implant license applications, and safety
and efficacy data, were under review.
  Two panel members—Dr. Harold  Brandon from Washington University
and Dr. Michael Brook from McMaster University—had accepted money from
Inamed to make presentations on behalf of the company at FDA hearings
five months before being appointed to the Health Canada Expert
Advisory Panel.
  “It was shameful and outrageous,” says Dr. Diana Zuckerman,
president of the National Center for Policy Research for Women &
Families, “but at least in the US it was clear that they were paid
consultants, there to make a presentation on behalf of the company
about how great the product is. In Canada, that wasn’t the case.”
  Panel member Dr. Mitchell Brown of Sunnybrook & Women’s College
Health Sciences Centre was busy being paid to promote the
(as-yet-unapproved) implants at his clinic and writing in a medical
journal about “when silicone gel implants are reintroduced” a full
year before they were officially given the green light by Health
Canada (emphasis added).
  “It distresses me greatly that Health Canada has decided to lift
the ban on silicone gel implants,” says Patty Faussett, who received
implants in 1997 and had them out the following year after
experiencing Multiple Sclerosis-type symptoms. “We’ve been shouting
and waving our arms for years trying to get [experts’] attention about
these very real dangers to so many women, but they have chosen to
disregard the many reports of women harmed, in favor of profits for
the corporations. ”
  Fausset says that before she had the implants, she wasn’t sick in
over ten years. After having them out, she got tests back from a
rheumatologist that told her that she had an elevated rheumatoid
factor (80% of people with rheumatoid arthritis have this, and it is
also linked with autoimmune diseases), a lowered C3 Complement and
macrocytosis (the enlargement of red blood cells that is linked to
liver disease, bacterial overgrowth and parasitic infestation, among
other things).
  And here’s the catch—Patty Faussett’s implants were saline. Canada
is only now lifting its ban on silicone implants—however,
saline-filled implants have been on the market since the 60’s.
Although saline is generally regarded as a safe alternative to
silicone, Blais insists this is not the case.
  “The main problem with saline,” asserts Blais, “is that the
companies who make them do not make the port—the valve, as it is
called—secure. The result is that during the lifetime of the implant,
the patient’s body fluids percolate or leak back into the implant, and
this stuff rots ‘in situ’. In other words, blood, proteins and tissue
which somehow finds its way into the implant becomes entrapped within
the implant and sooner or later bacteria and fungi goes in too, and it
uses the patient’s fluids and protiens as food. And it then grows.”
  Blais says the valves used in today’s saline implants are the same
valves used on saline implants in 1976, and in 80% of saline implants,
the valves come from the same manufacturer.
  Another problem that arises with saline implants is that the
silicone bag around the saline is porous, and becomes more and more
porous over time—notably so, according to Blais, after a period of
about five years.
  “As more and more fluid from the patient becomes pumped into the
[implant], the water part of this fluid leaks out through the bag,
making the inside more and more concentrated with decaying tissue. It
acts as a concentration machine where the inside is the nest for
ongoing—what we call in our trade—colonization.”
  Following Blais down the rabbit hole of this grotesque underground
world of butchered beauty, I wondered aloud what that would look like.
He was only too happy to oblige with a description, remarking that the
saline implants that were sent to him were “always like that.”
  “Even for the implants where the effect is not so ‘gross’, in other
words, you don’t see a huge amount of foreign stuff stuck inside—like
a bad aquarium? You find that when you look at the fluid closely. The
particles and the inoculae—the ‘seeds’, so to speak, of the
bacteria—are already there after a year. The amount increases with
time.
  “Occasionally, very rarely, we will get one that is not badly
colonized after five or six years but more than 80% of them have such
a level of contamination on the inside that you can see it by looking
at the implant at a distance of one meter. In some cases the implants
are totally black.”
  So is there no way to make both silicone and saline implants high
quality, safe products? Can’t technology save us in our quest for the
perfect pair of breasts? Blais, who has been in the business of failed
implants, among other things, for over a quarter of a century, doesn’t
mince his words.
  “A breast implant—or for that matter, most implants—don’t just sit
there. They cause the tissue around them to reshape, to re-form in a
different way. In other words, the implant does not accommodate to the
patient, the patient accommodates to the implant.
  “Firstly, the implant becomes surrounded by a tissue layer which
gradually increases in thickness with time. Think of it as a tissue
envelope, containing an implant. The space around the implant that is
still within the capsule is usually a liquid. This liquid is stagnant.
It’s like a marsh. There is no automatic cleansing of this fluid by
body processes.
  “So, the liquid being stagnant in turn causes the death of the
surrounding tissue. So as a result, the capsule becomes thicker and
thicker. With time, there is less and less cleansing, and after about
ten years, processes that are never found in living organisms without
implants takes place.
  “For example, large quantities of very hard, glass-like calcific
deposits form, and in large amounts. I’ve seen implants removed after
twenty years where the surrounding tissue was like a mass of leather
with the inside part consisting of [something like] crushed
lightbulbs.
  “This is not an exception. The near-totality of implants that were
put in between 1962 to about 1980 that are now being removed come out
in this condition. It’s not just a statistical risk. It’s a…” Blais
pauses, searching for the word, “ …guarantee. And the guarantee is
that it’s the result of the way we are built.”
     “Now, it doesn’t stop there.” My head is reeling, and I consider
asking him to slow down, but Blais is just getting warmed up. “A
breast implant sits at the crossroads of a lot of machinery. The chest
is not just a bag of tissue in which you can put anything. When you
put an implant into a place like this, you force it between muscles,
you have it sit on top of arteries, veins, lymphatic tissue and
what-have-you.
  “So as a result, all of these other bits of machinery that we call
our anatomy are changed. For example, blood flow into the chest is
drastically reduced. Part of this blood is part-and-parcel of our
coronary system. Basically the mammary artery, which is often very
close to these implants, is affected to the point that it seizes to
function and it calcifies. And that’s again, an expected [result].
  “With time, the implants exert a sustained pressure. […] As a
result of this sustained pressure, the ribcage gradually collapses and
indents. We have patients where X-rays show incurvation or collapse of
individual ribs that sit underneath the implant. And on and on it
goes. It’s not rocket science, it’s just the way we are made.”
  With that final nail banged in the coffin, I turn to the question
of how did we, as women, as a society, get to this point? In all this
obsession over the appearance of our breasts—how big, how pert, how
they spill over, their upward (or downward) tilt—I feel like something
has been lost. We have forgotten what the biological function of
breasts was in the first place. Faussett brought it home for me.
  “There is no doubt that the female breast has been considered one
of a woman’s most alluring features. I don’t think that will ever
change,” she muses, “but the difference is that in societies [in the]
past, the female breast was the source of nourishment that meant life
or death for an infant.  The very survival of humankind depended upon
the functioning human breast. In modern times, this is no longer the
case. Yes, breasts are still nourishment for infants worldwide, but in
our culture, we’ve made it optional to the health of the infant.
Formula abounds for the woman who does not want to use her breasts as
they were intended to be used. Couple the rise of the Playboy empire
with the advent of easily-obtainable infant formulas, and, the breast
has become more glamourous and sexy than ever before.”
  And of course, this glamour has a downside. “Breast implants are
deceptive. They give women hope that they, too, can have glamourous,
sexy breasts. Unfortunately, that is not always the case,” says
Faussett. “Hard breasts are not sexy. Obviously fake breasts are not
sexy. Numb breasts greatly reduce sexual pleasure. And if you happen
to be one who suffers from immune system dysfunction as a result of
exposure to breast implants, you can pretty much forget about sex, as
the last thing you will ever feel is sexy. Instead, you will feel like
you are an eighty year old woman in a much younger body as you fight
to function normally. It is definitely not sexy.”
  However, Faussett asserts, “there is a dark side, and there is the
lighter side, which I think I’ve found when I realized that my
experience brought me closer to living a life that is purposeful,
joyful and satisfying, and without all the baggage of insecurity about
my body that I had. […] I realized my inward beauty more than ever,
regardless—or in spite of—my suffering.”

Addendum: as of Nov 17, the US FDA has decided it, too will be lifting
the ban on silicone breast implants (but not silicone testicular
implants, because of “inadequate testing”). For more information,
visit the implant awareness website I am setting up at
<www.implanttruth.jshood.com> It will include audio of the full
interview with Dr. Pierre Blais, as well as links to Dr. Diana
Zuckerman’s, Patty Faussett’s, Kathy Nye’s and many other survivors’
and experts’ sites, and much more.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/

www.BreastImplantInfo.org/

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Patty.html

http://kathynyebreastimplants.homestead.com/
ArthurP - 07 Dec 2006 20:55 GMT
> http://www.implanttruth.jshood.com/links.html
>
[quoted text clipped - 356 lines]
>
> http://kathynyebreastimplants.homestead.com/

Remember, women are the majority in our society.  If they want to
change something then they have the power to do it.
Ilena Rose - 07 Dec 2006 21:34 GMT
Arthur wrote:

>Remember, women are the majority in our society.  If they want to change something then they have the power to do it.

Amen and thank you Arthur.

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/
ArthurP - 07 Dec 2006 21:51 GMT
> Arthur wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/

OK so stop complaining and start acting.
Spokesman - 08 Dec 2006 22:26 GMT
> Arthur wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/
Ilena Rose - 07 Dec 2006 21:57 GMT
LOL ... Arthur, I have spent 11 years of my life raising awareness to
the dangers of breast implants and have educated thousands and
thousands of women and those who love women.

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/
ArthurP - 07 Dec 2006 22:20 GMT
> LOL ... Arthur, I have spent 11 years of my life raising awareness to
> the dangers of breast implants and have educated thousands and
> thousands of women and those who love women.
>
> www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/

That does nothing.  Run for office get into the positions of power that
will enable you to do more that just hand out leflets and post on
newsgroups where only the loons, and those writing papers about them,
will see it.

Women had the perfect opertunity to elect one of their own as the
Libral leader. Why did you, as a group, not even try.
Coleah - 07 Dec 2006 22:23 GMT
> LOL ... Arthur, I have spent 11 years of my life raising awareness to
> the dangers of breast implants and have educated thousands and
> thousands of women and those who love women.
>
> www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/

There seems to be something missing here.
We on alt.support.breast-implant are not seeing any posts
from any person named 'Arthur'....just responses TO him.

Cross-posting to multi-disinterested newsgroups, again?

Coleah

Visit:
Explanations, Opinions & Doubting Questions
http://www.ilena-rosenthal.com
Eric® - 07 Dec 2006 22:27 GMT
Coleah wrote . . .

> > LOL ... Arthur, I have spent 11 years of my life raising awareness to
> > the dangers of breast implants and have educated thousands and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Coleah

Didn't they make a movie about Arthur with Jimmy Stewart playing Elwood
P. Dowd?

Sorry . . . that was "Harvey".

Eric
ryevpx@hfn.arg
_______________________________________________________________
Sandy L - 08 Dec 2006 01:00 GMT
>> LOL ... Arthur, I have spent 11 years of my life raising awareness to
>> the dangers of breast implants and have educated thousands and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Coleah

I am seeing posts from Arthur P, but not from Ilena.  I know why I am not
seeing Ilena's posts; I got tired of it and consigned her to the block
senders list.  I believe I will arrange the same for Arthur.

Sandy L
Jan Drew - 08 Dec 2006 03:14 GMT
>> LOL ... Arthur, I have spent 11 years of my life raising awareness to
>> the dangers of breast implants and have educated thousands and
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Visit:

Can you not post without starting a fight?

Pathetic.

>> http://www.implanttruth.jshood.com/links.html
>>
[quoted text clipped - 359 lines]
> Remember, women are the majority in our society.  If they want to
> change something then they have the power to do it.
Ilena Rose - 07 Dec 2006 22:26 GMT
Coleah Penley Ayers and Terry Polevoy have been busy ... wacko Polevoy
aka Vera Teasdale transcribing my every word and Coleah posting and
reposting libelous information about me and the Humantics Foundation.

Coleah is so lost in her lies and attempts to harm me ... in her
obsession, she purchased a website of my name ... Polevoy does similar
acts in harassing other people.

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/coleah.htm

www.BreastimplantAwareness.org/SBIPrivateClub.htm
Coleah - 07 Dec 2006 23:58 GMT
Ilena Rosenthal has for years and years put up webpages on the (non-profit)
Humantics Foundation website about people she dubbed "Mine Enemies" (for the
purpose of publicizing her 'explanations' about them).

All of those many, many people whom she chose to write 'explanations' about
(who've been advertised 365 24/7 on her 'sh.t list' webpage pages) now have
an opportunity to express their very own explanations, opinions and doubting
questions.....with links to verifiable facts.

http://www.ilena-rosenthal.com

God Bless The U.S.A !!

*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^

> Coleah Penley Ayers and Terry Polevoy have been busy ... wacko Polevoy
> aka Vera Teasdale transcribing my every word and Coleah posting and
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> www.BreastimplantAwareness.org/SBIPrivateClub.htm
Peter Bowditch - 08 Dec 2006 00:28 GMT
>Ilena Rosenthal has for years and years put up webpages on the (non-profit)
>Humantics Foundation website about people she dubbed "Mine Enemies" (for the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>http://www.ilena-rosenthal.com

Where did it go? One minute it's there, the next it's not. Has it
moved to Costa Rica?

>God Bless The U.S.A !!
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>> www.BreastimplantAwareness.org/SBIPrivateClub.htm 
>
Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Jan Drew - 08 Dec 2006 03:16 GMT
"Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> harassed.

Nothing about the subject.

Ilena Rose wrote:
> http://www.implanttruth.jshood.com/links.html
>
[quoted text clipped - 356 lines]
>
> http://kathynyebreastimplants.homestead.com/

Remember, women are the majority in our society.  If they want to
change something then they have the power to do it.
Peter Bowditch - 08 Dec 2006 03:44 GMT
>"Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> harassed.
>
>Nothing about the subject.

Peter Bowditch asked a poster about a broken URL. Jan not only snipped
what I said, but what I was responding to with my question. But did
Jan actually add anything to this thread?

I guess the answer can be expressed as KACHING!! $1.

<snip message which started the thread>
Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Jan Drew - 08 Dec 2006 03:15 GMT
 <snip>

>> Coleah Penley Ayers and Terry Polevoy have been busy ... wacko Polevoy
>> aka Vera Teasdale transcribing my every word and Coleah posting and
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>>
>> www.BreastimplantAwareness.org/SBIPrivateClub.htm
Peter Bowditch - 08 Dec 2006 03:44 GMT
>  <snip>

And that, folks, was the totality of Jan's contribution. Need I say:

KACHING!! $1
Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Coleah - 08 Dec 2006 17:29 GMT
Gosh, many people report that Google is not picking up the other thread's
Subject line!

Ilena Rosenthal has for years and years put up webpages on the (non-profit)
Humantics Foundation website about people she dubbed "Mine Enemies" (for the
purpose of publicizing her 'explanations' about them).

All of those many, many people whom she chose to write 'explanations' about
(who've been advertised 365 24/7 on her 'sh.t list' webpage pages) now have
an opportunity to express their very own explanations, opinions and
doubting
questions.....with links to verifiable facts.

http://www.ilena-rosenthal.com

God Bless The U.S.A !!
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^

>> Coleah Penley Ayers and Terry Polevoy have been busy ... wacko Polevoy
>> aka Vera Teasdale transcribing my every word and Coleah posting and
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>>
>> www.BreastimplantAwareness.org/SBIPrivateClub.htm
Jan Drew - 09 Dec 2006 02:18 GMT
> Gosh, many people report that Google is not picking up the other thread's
> Subject line!

Good.
Pete Dixon - 09 Dec 2006 02:49 GMT
Jan Drew jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net said:

> > Gosh, many people report that Google is not picking up the other thread's
> > Subject line!
>
> Good.

Google seems to be so anti-right-wing and anti-Christian.

Until some a.shole posts a bunch of intolerant religious nonsense on Usenet
based on a twisted and distorted account by the Canadian religious right wing
fanatical website called LifeSite News.

Then all you need to do is look it up on Google News and find that Lifesite and
copies of its twisted fanatical reports are shown the Google News by the score.

Anyone who claims that Google news is biased to the "left" must be a nut case.
x{yz}enophil44@hotmail.com - 09 Dec 2006 10:11 GMT
>> Gosh, many people report that Google is not picking up the other thread's
>> Subject line!
>
>Good.

Can you please stop crossposting to alt.support.cancer.breast?
Jan Drew - 09 Dec 2006 11:38 GMT
>>> Gosh, many people report that Google is not picking up the other
>>> thread's
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Can you please stop crossposting to alt.support.cancer.breast?

That was Coleah who started it.  Complain to her.
x{yz}enophil44@hotmail.com - 09 Dec 2006 12:17 GMT
>>>> Gosh, many people report that Google is not picking up the other
>>>> thread's
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>>
>That was Coleah who started it.  Complain to her.

I'm not complaining to anyone, simply asking whoever next posts to this
thread to take alt.support.cancer.breast out of the list of newsgroups
it's being posted to.  Please.
Mark Probert - 09 Dec 2006 22:13 GMT
>>> Gosh, many people report that Google is not picking up the other thread's
>>> Subject line!
>> Good.
>
> Can you please stop crossposting to alt.support.cancer.breast?

Please address your request to the person who started the thread.
x{yz}enophil44@hotmail.com - 09 Dec 2006 23:25 GMT
>>>> Gosh, many people report that Google is not picking up the other thread's
>>>> Subject line!
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Please address your request to the person who started the thread.

What's the point of that?  Effective action to stop crossposting cannot
be taken restrospectively,  It can only be taken by people posting from
now onwards.  All they have to do is delete alt.support.cancer.breast
from the list of newsgroups they're posting to.
Mark Probert - 10 Dec 2006 14:17 GMT
>>>>> Gosh, many people report that Google is not picking up the other thread's
>>>>> Subject line!
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> What's the point of that?  

It would educate the person who dastardly crossposted that crossposting
is evil, and that you do not like it. When responding in an established
thread, one does not know which newsgroup the person they are responding
to is posting from, thus, the need to maintain all newsgroups.

Effective action to stop crossposting cannot
> be taken restrospectively,  

Folks such as yourself should educate the person who made the nasty
cross post in the first place. That is the only way to educate them not
to do it again.

It can only be taken by people posting from
> now onwards.  All they have to do is delete alt.support.cancer.breast
> from the list of newsgroups they're posting to.

See above, one does not always know which newsgroup the person they are
responding to is posting from.
D. C. Sessions - 10 Dec 2006 14:46 GMT
>> It can only be taken by people posting from
>> now onwards.  All they have to do is delete alt.support.cancer.breast
>> from the list of newsgroups they're posting to.
>
> See above, one does not always know which newsgroup the person they are
> responding to is posting from.

Which is why the UseNet convention is to set Followup-To.
Reply to the groups of the parent post, *but* set the
followups.

If the person replying doesn't read _any_ of the groups in
the followup list, it's OK to add *one* that they do read.

Thus, followups to this are set to MHA, which I know Mark
I read.  If anyone else responding to this doesn't read
MHA, they might set followups to (for instance) TPM.

| Bogus as it might seem, people, this really is a deliverable       |
| e-mail address.  Of course, there isn't REALLY a lumber cartel.    |
| There isn't really a Santa Claus, but try www.santaclaus.com.      |
+--------------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> --------------+
Jan Drew - 11 Dec 2006 01:21 GMT
>>>>>> Gosh, many people report that Google is not picking up the other
>>>>>> thread's Subject line!
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> See above, one does not always know which newsgroup the person they are
> responding to is posting from.

Orginal subject   Toxic Breasts: a peek inside the breast implant industry

     Which has to be with any breast newsgroup.

           Subject changed: http://www.ilena-rosenthal.com

     By Coleah

Now -- WHO is evil..............

And look who is talking.......................
Eva - 11 Dec 2006 03:52 GMT
> >>>>>> Gosh, many people report that Google is not picking up the other
> >>>>>> thread's Subject line!
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> And look who is talking.......................
---------------
We don't care about your stupid flamewars.  NO ONE in
alt.support.cancer.breast wants to read your stupid posts.  That means *all*
of you.  Have you no decency?  Stop crossposting to this newsgroup.
Eva
Ilena Rose - 07 Dec 2006 22:28 GMT
Coleah Penley Ayers and Terry Polevoy have been busy ... wacko Polevoy
aka Vera Teasdale transcribing my every word and Coleah posting and
reposting libelous information about me and the Humantics Foundation.

Coleah is so lost in her lies and attempts to harm me ... in her
obsession, she purchased a website of my name ... Polevoy does similar
acts in harassing other people.

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/coleah.htm

www.BreastimplantAwareness.org/SBIPrivateClub.htm
Penley Ayers hunting me down like the crazed, obsessed mad woman she
is.

www.BreastimplantAwareness.org/Polevoy.htm
Penley Ayers advertises his quackery.
Coleah - 08 Dec 2006 00:55 GMT
> Penley Ayers hunting me down like the crazed, obsessed mad woman she
> is.

'HUNTING' ?
Such as when you "dug" ? (for the purpose of legal service)
Guess that makes you a crazed, obsessed mad woman......

Hell, YOU even showed up at the defendents house WITH
the process server <g>!   Shoe's on the other foot....

http://www.ilena-rosenthal.com/ilenaquote1.html#here
(privacy protected with 'xxx's' (unlike the original email)
and  information is outdated)
Jan Drew - 08 Dec 2006 03:17 GMT
Nothing but attacking.
Peter Bowditch - 08 Dec 2006 03:50 GMT
>Nothing but attacking.

You forgot to mention the snipping before you added nothing, Jan.
There goes another

KACHING!! $1
Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Ilena Rose - 08 Dec 2006 18:16 GMT
Note from Ilena Rosenthal:  One of the bully attempts of the
quackwatch / rag-tags team is to highjack posts by changing the
subject line. Google Groups readers will then have the prior posts
subjects eliminated.

~~~~~~~

Coleah Penley Ayers and Terry Polevoy have been busy ... wacko Polevoy
aka Vera Teasdale transcribing my every word and Coleah posting and
reposting libelous information about me and the Humantics Foundation.

Coleah is so lost in her lies and attempts to harm me ... in her
obsession, she purchased a website of my name ... Polevoy does similar
acts in harassing other people.

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/coleah.htm
Being updated with her latest libelous postings about me

www.BreastimplantAwareness.org/SBIPrivateClub.htm
Penley Ayers hunting me down like the crazed, obsessed mad woman she
is.

www.BreastimplantAwareness.org/Polevoy.htm
Penley Ayers advertises his quackery.
Coleah - 08 Dec 2006 21:04 GMT
> Note from Ilena Rosenthal:  One of the bully attempts of the
> quackwatch / rag-tags team is to highjack posts by changing the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> obsession, she purchased a website of my name ... Polevoy does similar
> acts in harassing other people.

Ha, ha.....just as you have added your 'explanations' about me
to a webpage with my name on....did you logically expect that
explanations about Ilena Rosenthal should be named something else?
Some mentor you are.

BTW - tell your little buddy Fintan Dunn that his insane
statement-as-an-absolute-true-fact about me on his Internet
broadcast interview was a big mistake.
Specifically:  "She purchased a website in your name"

[Purchasing something "IN" someone else's name means that
'the someone else' has been made financially responsible for
any payment of such purchase.

He does have proof to back an erroneous statement like that up,
doesn't he?  If not, he can certainly apologize for publicly
spreading such a falsehood by clarify his false statement
on his website in writing and verbally during his broadcast
or he can explain it to the Judge.]
Ilena Rose - 08 Dec 2006 21:10 GMT
How twisted of Coleah Penley Ayers to purchase a website that is MY
PERSONAL NAME to post her about me on.

www.breastImplantAwareness.org/Coleah.htm

www.breastImplantAwareness.org/SBIPrivateClub.htm

Terry "Vera Teasdale" Polevoy (for whom Penley Ayers is a publicist)
does a similar deviant thing to Adam Dreamhealer ...

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Polevoy.htm

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Coleah - 08 Dec 2006 23:16 GMT
Ooops, Ilena.
You must learn to write complete sentences for clarity.
Shall I say that it has been sooooooooo twisted of
Ilena Rosenthal to use a non-profit organization's
website with a webpage with MY PERSONAL NAME
to post her 'explanations' about ME on?????
What a mentor......

> How twisted of Coleah Penley Ayers to purchase a website that is MY
> PERSONAL NAME to post her about me on.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Ilena Rose - 08 Dec 2006 23:35 GMT
"Spokesman" wrote:

>  Breast implants to some women are like smoking. The risks involved are outweighed by the pleasure gained.

That was a great analogy. However, I have heard from many, many women
who disagree to your second statement.

The silicone industry even uses the same junkscience propaganda team
as the tobacco industry to spread disinformation about the dangers.

I have talked to hundreds if not thousands of women over these years
who tell me that if they knew then, what they knew now, they would
never have chosen to get dangerous breast implants.

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/offspring.htm

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Ilena Rose - 09 Dec 2006 22:22 GMT
"Spokesman" wrote:

>  Breast implants to some women are like smoking. The risks involved are outweighed by the pleasure gained.

That was a great analogy. However, I have heard from many, many women
who disagree to your second statement.

The silicone industry even uses the same junkscience propaganda team
as the tobacco industry to spread disinformation about the dangers.

I have talked to hundreds if not thousands of women over these years
who tell me that if they knew then, what they knew now, they would
never have chosen to get dangerous breast implants.

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/offspring.htm

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Ilena Rose - 09 Dec 2006 22:58 GMT
John ... thank you for your comments.

I would like to say, however, that women who buy breast implants can
be any woman ... from those with screws loose (I believe Coleah Penley
Ayers is used here by the quackwatch team to embarass the women) ...
to the former Assistant Postmaster General.

I've met brilliant, gorgeous women who thought they researched the
topic thoroughly ... only to be fooled and left breastless ... women
who went from an A cup to a B after breastfeeding took out their
"fullness" ... they too have been left implantless and breastless.

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/
Read the women's stories ... you'll be amazed.
Ilena Rose - 10 Dec 2006 02:51 GMT
www.mercola.com/2001/jun/6/breast_implants.htm

Breast Implants: America's Silent Epidemic

by Ilena Rosenthal

Daily my phone rings and my email overflows with urgent and painful
calls from women just awakening from the ether of their breast
implants. Although their first surgeries may have been decades ago,
they are finally emerging from the web of deceit that their plastic
surgeons and the silicone manufacturers have woven through the media
for years in a brilliant, expensive public relations coup of enormous
proportions.

Now reality has struck as they join scores of thousands of ill and
disfigured women in learning the hidden truth - their cherished breast
implants may cost them their insurance, their health, their beauty,
their vitality, their families, their careers, and too often, even
their lives.

Everything I have ever done or thought or studied for 47 years brought
me to November, 1995 when I created a Newsgroup
(alt.support.breast-implant) on the Internet to provide an
International Forum to discuss this perplexing issue and create a
place for the women to connect with each other. I had no idea of the
depth, breadth, or width of the Pandora's Box I was opening.

Five years later, after unknown thousands of communications from
women, doctors, loved ones, attorneys, supporters and tormentors
alike, I admit I am no longer without bias. I now know that a huge
fraud has and continues to be committed on women, and the background
on this issue reads like a non-fiction espionage bestseller.

No stranger to plastic surgery (first nose bob during my Dallas high
school years) I do not now, nor have I ever had implants. There, but
for the grace of God go I. A few million of our sisters have made that
choice for a variety of reasons.

However, two common denominators remain the same -- they were always
assured they were "safe" and the "risks minimal," and eerily, they
have come up against a medical establishment unwilling and unable to
cure their illnesses.

In 1992, after 30 years of unimpeded marketing, the FDA finally banned
silicone gel implants for most women. Because of the lobbying of the
manufacturers and plastic surgeons -- who flew in around 400 women to
lobby Washington DC on their behalf -- women post-mastectomy were and
are still allowed to get these unproven, highly risky medical devices.

Even though early studies were resurrected, long hidden by the
manufacturers, proving they knew that their implants would break,
immune reactions would occur, the gel would migrate, and even more
disturbing, could cross the placenta and affect the unborn fetuses,
almost never did this information make it to the women it could have
protected.

They also hired visible spokesdoctors to misled the public into
believing that implant rupture -- a devastating medical event -- was
"only 4-6%." They also claimed to examine and find "no association"
between implants and a myriad of painful and debilitating autoimmune
diseases suffered in disproportionate percentages.

In fact, the Executive Editor of the New England Journal of Medicine,
Dr. Marcia Angell, chose to publish two very flawed, small and short
studies funded by those who stood the most to gain by the results. She
then promoted and defended these studies as if they were gospel in her
pro-manufacturer book, Science on Trial, and flooded the media with
this corporate science while branding a scarlet "Junk Scientist" on
any doctor who dared to dispute the "experts."

This PR campaign includes labeling the women "crazies" and their
leaders and supporters "fear mongers" and "wackos" so desperate are
they to destroy the credibility of any of us who dared to speak out on
the dangers. The result is that for years, women have been lulled into
a false belief, that they had a 95% chance of being rupture free. The
contrary is true.

Alarming, indisputable evidence was released in October 2000, when the
FDA published a landmark study of implanted women, many still without
symptoms. This objective work revealed that 69% of these women had at
least one ruptured implant, most without any knowledge of it, although
implanted a median time of less than 17 years.

Other studies had already revealed over a 90% chance of rupture within
20 years.

Hardly, the "lifetime" product they were promised.

The cover up continues to fall apart . . .

Dr. David Feigal, director of the Center for Devices and Radiological
Health at the FDA, said it so clearly, "When it happens to you, the
rupture rate is 100 percent." By January 2000, over 127,000 women had
written the FDA about the serious complications from their silicone
gel implants.

The tragedy is that still today, they are unable to get good medical
care as the majority of doctors refuse to believe the connection. Even
worse, doctors don't have a clue what to do to heal these assaulted
immune systems and rid women's bodies of the dozens of dangerous
ingredients found in implants such as platinum, silica, formaldehyde,
plasticizers and organic solvents.

Implant formulations were frequently changed -- shells and gel thicker
then thinner then thicker again -- and "new and improved" was marketed
so often, it appears silicone merchants believed their own hype.

In the 80's, as "the" answer to capsular contracture, over 100,000
women received gel implants with polyurethane foam glued to them. Not
only did the foam disintegrate, often within just weeks of
implantation, but it broke down into TDA, a known carcinogen, decades
ago removed from hair dyes.

These women are amongst the most ill, and even when these dangerous
implants were hurriedly taken off the market in 1991, no recall or
even courtesy call was made to warn the implanted women.

The most recent implant disaster was exported to Europe, where well
over 5,000 women, mainly in Britain, were implanted with soy oil
filled implants, unlovingly known as "tofu titties." The American
protocol for this product required this new round of female "lab rats"
to be past childbearing age, but somewhere on it's way across the
Atlantic, this requirement was dropped.

Health advocates and cautious scientists were warning of the serious
potential dangers but were ignored and the "experts" made fortunes
implanting them even in very young women. Their bubble burst as
shocking reports and the rancid soy oil leaked out in Spring of 2000,
and all the women were advised to have them removed as quickly as
possible.

The damage to many had already been done. Now, like the millions with
failed gel implants, they are faced with yet another difficult
decision, should they replace them with saline filled implants? Is
Saline the Solution?

From her wheelchair, Jackie Strange, the former Deputy Postmaster
General of the United States spoke of the destruction of her life at
hearings by the Institute of Medicine at the National Academy of
Sciences in Washington, DC.

Infections, peripheral neuropathy, and a myriad of autoimmune diseases
struck in both rapid and slow succession following her implantation
with saline filled, silicone implants. Concurrently, the manufacturers
and plastic surgeons were creating a multi-media blitz touting saline
implants from billboards, glossy magazines and TV. With ads
reminiscent of "You've come a long way, baby," young women were
featured praising their implants and plastic surgeons did the Talk
Show circuit assuring women that saline was "natural" and leakage
benign.

In Spring, 2000, in spite of over 50,000 reports of serious adverse
reactions from water-filled implants, the FDA made the fateful
decision to give their highly valued stamp of "safety approval" on two
brands of saline implants, declaring them "safe enough." How can this
be?

The manufacturers own studies show that within just the first 3 years,
nearly 40% of post-mastectomy patients had to have additional
surgeries with these implants.

The complication rate for these women is around 80% in just 4 years
time. After cancer, invasive surgery to remove the tumors, often
radiation and / or chemotherapy, the body is simply not strong enough
to handle this foreign invader.

Even for women wanting implants just for augmentation to boost their
self-esteem, the complication rates are staggering. Glamour Magazine,
in their November 2000 issue published a full page photo revealing a
saline filled implant, entirely black with aspergillus niger and other
fungi.

Breast Cancer and Implants - No Easy Answers

Nearly 200,000 American women -- our sisters, mothers, teachers,
lovers, daughters, friends -- will be diagnosed with breast cancer
this year. Cancer and implant survivor, retired Professor of Health
Education, Henrietta Farber, recently summarized the feelings of many
who know, "The cancer was challenging.

The implants almost killed me." While the manufacturers press releases
rage "The Case Against Implants Collapses," and try to close this ugly
chapter in medical history, the women, now united, have a plan of
their own. With the health of women and their offspring at stake,
Martha Murdock, Co-Founder of the National Silicone Implant Foundation
in Dallas, with four generations of her family affected by silicone
toxicity, says it best, "It's not over 'til we win."

Risks of Breast Implants

1. Implants can rupture during mammography.

2. Implants make routine self exams and mammography more difficult.
More views are necessary, meaning additional radiation each time.

3. Implant rupture can go undetected for years and silicone is known
to migrate through the lymph system and has been found in the brains,
spinal fluid, ovaries, livers, and other organs of implanted women.

4. Implants are not lifetime devices, and may need to be replaced
(even without systemic problems) more than once a decade.

5. At any time infections are possible, including fungal and
antibiotic resistant bacterial infestations.

6. Loss of breast sensation, especially around the nipple area is
reported, as well as hyper-senstivity to touch.

7. Capsular contracture can be very uncomfortable, to the point of
severe pain and deformation.

8. Many women have experienced severe necrosis and other forms of
breast tissue loss.

9. Many women have experienced serious autoimmune diseases post
implantation including: rheumatoid arthritis, scleroderma, multiple
sclerosis, Sjøgrens Syndrome (severe dry mouth, eyes, etc.), and
lupus.
Those women with pre-existing compromised immune systems are now
warned to avoid implants.

10. Disproportional numbers of implanted women have reported
neurological and cognitive complications, as well as endocrine
disruption including hysterectomies, miscarriage.

11. Children born of implanted women have experienced the same
autoimmune conditions and have been seriously inadequately studied.

12. Breast implants often negatively affect the ability to produce
milk for breast-feeding.

13. Health insurance carriers are routinely denying coverage for
implanted (and explanted) women.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----
Ilena Rosenthal is the author of Breast Implants: The Myths, the
Facts, the Women. Ms. Rosenthal has been connecting, supporting and
educating women harmed by breast implants for over 9 years.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----

Total Health for Longevity Magazine November/December 2000, Volume 22,
Number 6 pages 41-42

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org
Spokesman - 08 Dec 2006 22:28 GMT
> http://www.implanttruth.jshood.com/links.html
>
> BRAVO to Julie!

http://thenav.ca/index/news-app/story.470/title.toxic-breasts-a-peek-inside-the-
breast-implant-industry


> Toxic Breasts: a peek inside the breast implant industry
>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> and subsequently created more desire for, and interest in, surgical
> options.

Illena, Do you have nice big breasts that you are proud of.  Would it
hurt your self-esteem if they were small and one was smaller than the
other.   Breast implants to some women are like smoking. The risks
involved are outweighed by the pleasure gained.

>    Medical knowledge gained during World War II, coupled with
> technological advances with synthetics led surgeons to experiment with
[quoted text clipped - 326 lines]
>
> http://kathynyebreastimplants.homestead.com/
Jan Drew - 09 Dec 2006 02:03 GMT
> Illena, Do you have nice big breasts that you are proud of.  Would it
> hurt your self-esteem if they were small and one was smaller than the
> other.   Breast implants to some women are like smoking. The risks
> involved are outweighed by the pleasure gained.

Pleasure for who?  You as a male?

What nonsense.

God gave women breasts to nurse their babies.  Not for men.

>>    Medical knowledge gained during World War II, coupled with
>> technological advances with synthetics led surgeons to experiment with
[quoted text clipped - 326 lines]
>>
>> http://kathynyebreastimplants.homestead.com/
Peter Bowditch - 09 Dec 2006 03:45 GMT
>> Illena, Do you have nice big breasts that you are proud of.  Would it
>> hurt your self-esteem if they were small and one was smaller than the
>> other.   Breast implants to some women are like smoking. The risks
>> involved are outweighed by the pleasure gained.
>
>Pleasure for who?  You as a male?

Pleasure as in self-esteem and self-image. Have you ever worn makeup,
dieted to lose weight or chosen clothes because you thought that they
flattered you? Sometimes a permanent answer is needed to a permanent
problem.

>What nonsense.

Do you think that all plastic or reconstructive surgery is nonsense?
Have you ever been in the position of having parts of your body
malformed and wish that something could be done about it? You did see
where the poster used the words "one was smaller than the other",
didn't you? Would you say "What nonsense" to the face of a woman who
was distressed by this and wanted to do something about it?

>God gave women breasts to nurse their babies.  Not for men.

And sometimes God seems to get things wrong and adjustment is needed.
Do you know anyone with only one breast, Jan? Should they stay that
way because God decided to deal them a poor hand?

There are legitimate reasons for women wanting breast implants, and to
apply a blanket denial just because of some objection to the fact that
some women will get them for no other reason than vanity discriminates
against anyone with a valid need.
Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Pete Dixon - 09 Dec 2006 03:59 GMT
Peter Bowditch myfirstname@ratbags.com said:
> Pleasure as in self-esteem and self-image. Have you ever worn makeup,
> dieted to lose weight or chosen clothes because you thought that they
> flattered you? Sometimes a permanent answer is needed to a permanent
> problem.

I grew up with a kid who eventually died of a disease that had to do with
appearance and the need to improve.  Anorexia nervosa .

Another friend was saved from it, but only because of expensive treatments,
which only changed her focus.

She's still one f.cked up woman.

It's all about appearance and the mental illness to be "good looking", then
there's the crap about bad implants.

That's my view.

I have no issue with anyone who has a desire to regain their youthful looks,
but there should be more attention to psychiatrics first, over things such as
implants.

The only viable prosthetic for most healthy people is contact lenses.  The rest
is different and those who think that they're in need should be "shrinked"
first.
Peter Bowditch - 09 Dec 2006 12:45 GMT
>Peter Bowditch myfirstname@ratbags.com said:
>> Pleasure as in self-esteem and self-image. Have you ever worn makeup,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>I grew up with a kid who eventually died of a disease that had to do with
>appearance and the need to improve.  Anorexia nervosa .

You'll get no argument from me about anorexia nervosa, but the person
I was replying to with the words you quoted just recently suggested
that AN could be fixed by using the correct dietary supplements.
That's right - get someone who won't eat to eat pills.

>Another friend was saved from it, but only because of expensive treatments,
>which only changed her focus.
>
>She's still one f.cked up woman.

Even if the mental thing is fixed there can still be physical problems
left over. I've seen 14-15-year-olds who were kept in secure hospital
wards with 24-hour close supervision to stop them removing the feeding
tubes. Their skeletons were clearly evident and they had stopped (or
never started) menstruating. That sort of damage takes a lot of
getting over.

>It's all about appearance and the mental illness to be "good looking", then
>there's the crap about bad implants.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>is different and those who think that they're in need should be "shrinked"
>first.
Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Jan Drew - 09 Dec 2006 14:28 GMT
http://www.implanttruth.jshood.com/links.html

BRAVO to Julie!

http://thenav.ca/index/news-app/story.470/title.toxic-breasts-a-peek-...

Toxic Breasts: a peek inside the breast implant industry

By Julie Chadwick

November 22, 2006
Few aspects of the human anatomy have generated more hype, insecurity
and fetishization than the female breast. It has been used to sell
products; been the object of fame and obsession, and the cause of
wishful thinking and embarrassment. It has been pushed, lifted,
separated and prodded into every shape imaginable, as dictated by the
fickle face of fashion. However, nothing has been quite as dangerous
as the trend towards a surgically enhanced bust.
  The possibility of changing one's "God-given" lot must have seemed
like a miracle to certain hopeful young women when the prospect of
breast implants first loomed in the early 1900s. These first
experimentations were not actually implants but injections-first with
paraffin, with disastrous results, and later with the patient's own
fat tissue, which was quickly reabsorbed and left scarring and
unsightly lumps. Both methods were abandoned by the 1920's and by the
middle of the century, the body ideal was moving away from the svelte
"flat" flapper and towards the curviness of the cheesecake pin-up.
With this shift came more pressure on women to conform to the ideal,
and subsequently created more desire for, and interest in, surgical
options.
  Medical knowledge gained during World War II, coupled with
technological advances with synthetics led surgeons to experiment with
the insertion of spongy polyurethane derivatives with names like
Surgifoam and Ivalon. These too, however, proved to be unsuccessful,
as breast tissue filled in the holes and contracted around the sponge,
often reducing it to a hard lump that was difficult to extricate.
  Inspired by Japanese prostitutes that were injecting silicone
directly into their breasts in an attempt to attract American sailors,
doctors in the US began to experiment with liquid silicone.
  Through the 50s and 60s, this practice became popular with topless
dancers in Las Vegas and San Francisco. Its use became more widespread
as, initially, it appeared to be a less-invasive procedure that any
doctor could do. It is estimated that anywhere from at least 12,000 to
50,000 women received silicone injections during its period of
popularity, which began to wane in the mid-60's. It wasn't long before
complications associated with the injection of silicone began to set
in.
  Some of the noted clear-cut effects were pain, skin discoloration,
edema, ulceration and necrosis, calcification, granulomas, migration
of the fluid, infection, cysts, axillary adenopathy, disfigurement and
loss of the breast, liver granulomas and dysfunction, acute
pneumonitis or adult respiratory distress syndrome, pulmonary
embolism, coma, and death.
 As Frank Gerow and Thomas Cronin, two plastic surgeons from Texas,
were developing the first silicone breast implant in 1961, there was
already some dissent from within the ranks. On Jan. 24 of that same
year, Ethel Mullison, the Staff Associate from the Dow Corning Center
for Aid to Medical Research, sent a memo to Cronin. In the letter, she
states that there are problems with silicone being "injected directly
into the body," and that "if enclosed within a silicone bag, the
fluids would tend to diffuse out through the walls of the silicone
rubber and be absorbed into the tissues."
  This problem came to be known as 'bleed' - the tendency of silicone
to ooze out of its protective shell (also made of silicone) and behave
exactly like silicone injections - with all of the attendant
complications.
  The first woman to receive silicone breast implants was Timmie Jean
Lindsey, in 1962, and the following year Dow Corning began selling
their Silastic brand of implants, without any long term testing or
monitoring of their effects in humans.
  By 1976, the state of Nevada felt compelled to make the practice of
injecting silicone a felony. Today, it is not approved by the FDA for
any cosmetic use.
  As silicone made the journey from injections to implantations, many
of the earlier problems and complications proved difficult to shake.
Controversy over the safety of silicone dogged the breast augmentation
industry every step of the way.
     The awareness of potential health threats associated with breast
implants rocketed its way into the public consciousness when Dow
Corning was hit with multiple lawsuits in the early 90's. However, Dow
had been quietly fighting complaints and court actions for a long
time.
  In 1976, an amendment enacted by the FDA granted the Administration
new power to regulate medical devices. However, it was a little too
late for implants-they had already been on the market for a number of
years, and as a result had been "grandfathered" into the system.
  The first court settlement was quietly awarded in 1977, to the tune
of $170,000 (US). Another case against Dow Corning was subsequently
won in 1984, for over $1.5 million (US), during which numerous
internal company documents and memos were leaked. By 1988 the FDA
jumped into action and recategorized breast implants as a high-risk
product. They set a deadline for manufacturers to prove the safety of
implants by July of 1991.
  By the time the deadline arrived, another settlement was awarded
-the largest yet-of $5.4 million. By September of that same year, the
evidence that was submitted to the FDA was determined insufficient to
judge whether breast implants were safe or unsafe, and they were
required to submit further data. Three months later another case
against Dow Corning was won, with $7.3 million awarded. Another 137
lawsuits were pending. In 1992, the FDA clamped down and severely
limit the use of silicone breast implants.
  By 1995, Dow Corning was facing some 20,000 lawsuits and a global
settlement suit in which about 440,000 women had registered. Dow filed
for bankruptcy.
  The court heard plaintiffs' testify that their ruptured and leaking
implants were causing them a range of health problems including joint
pain, headaches, autoimmune diseases, connective tissue diseases,
arthritic-like conditions, chronic fatigue, muscle pain, and
dizziness.
  The verdict seemed to be that there were grave problems with the
use of silicone from the beginning, and that it's containment within a
silicone bag did little to limit it's adverse effects within the body.
This was the conclusion of not only the growing numbers of "implant
survivors" but that of a growing body of experts as well.
  Dr. Pierre Blais was the former Senior Scientific Advisor for
Canada's now-defunct Department of Health and Welfare for fourteen
years. He now runs Innoval Consultants, a firm engaged in the design,
testing and failure analysis of high risk medical systems
  In his line of work he has examined over 7,000 cases of
explantation, from which they have recovered over 9,000 different
implants. Blais says they've seen "every single type that has ever
been used worldwide. Some are as old as the 1950's."
"[They're] mostly of US  manufacturing origin because they dominate
the field." Blais continues: "what we're seeing is an unprecedented
degree of poor quality. It doesn't matter where you get them from, it
doesn't matter when they were put in, what we see consistently across
all years and all types is very poor quality, frequent manufacturing
defects, and in almost all cases, major problems that arose as a
result of the implant. At the very least, a poor appearance; at the
very worst, death.
  "We  have a very substantial number of these implants which were
removed at death. We call that necropsy."
  In October of this year, Health Canada made a strange move - the
decision to lift the restrictions on silicone implants that have been
in place for over fifteen years, specifically for two corporations -
Inamed and Mentor.  What has changed between  the early 90's-when the
ban was put into effect-and now?
  Health Canada's Dr. Supriya Sharma told CTV Newsnet on Oct. 20 of
this year that there have been many changes since the early 90's in
terms of how silicone implants are manufactured.
     "It's an illusion," stresses Blais. "Basically, the technology's
exactly the same, the materials are still the same [.] the same people
who were around in the 60's, 70's and 80's making breast implants are
still around. Only the names of the companies have changed as a result
of multiple acquisitions, bankruptcies, problems, movement of the
company abroad and so on."
  Sharma went on to say that Health Canada believed that because the
gel inside and the layers on the outside of silicone breast implants
is now thicker, it is a safer product than it was in the 90's. Blais
disagrees.
  "It's a total misconception," explains Blais. First of all, "there
is no such thing as 'silicone' in the singular. It's thousands of
different compounds, mixed very much like rubbers. [...] There is
enormous variations between silicones. It's no more descriptive a term
[to say silicone] than it is to say, 'rubber'.
   "In the case of breast implants, even the process to make breast
implants does not ensure uniformity from implant to implant of the
same batch, and we have instances where the silicones are from the
same implant and yet have different properties from point to point.
It's extremely variable."
  This makes it very difficult to determine the safety of silicone
implants and how they behave in a woman's body, says Blais. Even if
there had been long-term testing or studies done in the 60s before
silicone breast implants went on the market, Blais says that "the
studies would apply specifically, only, to the batch of product that
has been studied. It would not apply to anything before, and most
probably nothing after."
  How is it, then, that Health Canada managed to approve silicone
implants with confidence?
  They cite reviews from the UK and  the US that conclude there is
"no evidence of a causal relationship between silicone gel-filled
implants and a number of auto-immune diseases or other systemic
illnesses." They also cite a Canadian study that "showed that women
undergoing cosmetic breast augmentation do not appear to be at an
increased long-term risk of developing cancer," and a publication
published in an American journal that showed that "women undergoing
cosmetic breast augmentation do not appear to be at an increased
long-term risk of developing cancer."
  They also established an Expert Advisory Panel to advise Health
Canada in their decision.
  The integrity of the Expert Advisory Panel was called into question
in early Nov. of 2005. The Canadian Medical Association Journal (CMAJ)
reported that Nanaimo/Cowichan MP Jean Crowder was calling for the
removal of three of the panel members because all three had either
worked for, or accepted money from  Inamed and Mentor. These were the
very companies who's breast implant license applications, and safety
and efficacy data, were under review.
  Two panel members-Dr. Harold  Brandon from Washington University
and Dr. Michael Brook from McMaster University-had accepted money from
Inamed to make presentations on behalf of the company at FDA hearings
five months before being appointed to the Health Canada Expert
Advisory Panel.
  "It was shameful and outrageous," says Dr. Diana Zuckerman,
president of the National Center for Policy Research for Women &
Families, "but at least in the US it was clear that they were paid
consultants, there to make a presentation on behalf of the company
about how great the product is. In Canada, that wasn't the case."
  Panel member Dr. Mitchell Brown of Sunnybrook & Women's College
Health Sciences Centre was busy being paid to promote the
(as-yet-unapproved) implants at his clinic and writing in a medical
journal about "when silicone gel implants are reintroduced" a full
year before they were officially given the green light by Health
Canada (emphasis added).
  "It distresses me greatly that Health Canada has decided to lift
the ban on silicone gel implants," says Patty Faussett, who received
implants in 1997 and had them out the following year after
experiencing Multiple Sclerosis-type symptoms. "We've been shouting
and waving our arms for years trying to get [experts'] attention about
these very real dangers to so many women, but they have chosen to
disregard the many reports of women harmed, in favor of profits for
the corporations. "
  Fausset says that before she had the implants, she wasn't sick in
over ten years. After having them out, she got tests back from a
rheumatologist that told her that she had an elevated rheumatoid
factor (80% of people with rheumatoid arthritis have this, and it is
also linked with autoimmune diseases), a lowered C3 Complement and
macrocytosis (the enlargement of red blood cells that is linked to
liver disease, bacterial overgrowth and parasitic infestation, among
other things).
  And here's the catch-Patty Faussett's implants were saline. Canada
is only now lifting its ban on silicone implants-however,
saline-filled implants have been on the market since the 60's.
Although saline is generally regarded as a safe alternative to
silicone, Blais insists this is not the case.
  "The main problem with saline," asserts Blais, "is that the
companies who make them do not make the port-the valve, as it is
called-secure. The result is that during the lifetime of the implant,
the patient's body fluids percolate or leak back into the implant, and
this stuff rots 'in situ'. In other words, blood, proteins and tissue
which somehow finds its way into the implant becomes entrapped within
the implant and sooner or later bacteria and fungi goes in too, and it
uses the patient's fluids and protiens as food. And it then grows."
  Blais says the valves used in today's saline implants are the same
valves used on saline implants in 1976, and in 80% of saline implants,
the valves come from the same manufacturer.
  Another problem that arises with saline implants is that the
silicone bag around the saline is porous, and becomes more and more
porous over time-notably so, according to Blais, after a period of
about five years.
  "As more and more fluid from the patient becomes pumped into the
[implant], the water part of this fluid leaks out through the bag,
making the inside more and more concentrated with decaying tissue. It
acts as a concentration machine where the inside is the nest for
ongoing-what we call in our trade-colonization."
  Following Blais down the rabbit hole of this grotesque underground
world of butchered beauty, I wondered aloud what that would look like.
He was only too happy to oblige with a description, remarking that the
saline implants that were sent to him were "always like that."
  "Even for the implants where the effect is not so 'gross', in other
words, you don't see a huge amount of foreign stuff stuck inside-like
a bad aquarium? You find that when you look at the fluid closely. The
particles and the inoculae-the 'seeds', so to speak, of the
bacteria-are already there after a year. The amount increases with
time.
  "Occasionally, very rarely, we will get one that is not badly
colonized after five or six years but more than 80% of them have such
a level of contamination on the inside that you can see it by looking
at the implant at a distance of one meter. In some cases the implants
are totally black."
  So is there no way to make both silicone and saline implants high
quality, safe products? Can't technology save us in our quest for the
perfect pair of breasts? Blais, who has been in the business of failed
implants, among other things, for over a quarter of a century, doesn't
mince his words.
  "A breast implant-or for that matter, most implants-don't just sit
there. They cause the tissue around them to reshape, to re-form in a
different way. In other words, the implant does not accommodate to the
patient, the patient accommodates to the implant.
  "Firstly, the implant becomes surrounded by a tissue layer which
gradually increases in thickness with time. Think of it as a tissue
envelope, containing an implant. The space around the implant that is
still within the capsule is usually a liquid. This liquid is stagnant.
It's like a marsh. There is no automatic cleansing of this fluid by
body processes.
  "So, the liquid being stagnant in turn causes the death of the
surrounding tissue. So as a result, the capsule becomes thicker and
thicker. With time, there is less and less cleansing, and after about
ten years, processes that are never found in living organisms without
implants takes place.
  "For example, large quantities of very hard, glass-like calcific
deposits form, and in large amounts. I've seen implants removed after
twenty years where the surrounding tissue was like a mass of leather
with the inside part consisting of [something like] crushed
lightbulbs.
  "This is not an exception. The near-totality of implants that were
put in between 1962 to about 1980 that are now being removed come out
in this condition. It's not just a statistical risk. It's a." Blais
pauses, searching for the word, " .guarantee. And the guarantee is
that it's the result of the way we are built."
     "Now, it doesn't stop there." My head is reeling, and I consider
asking him to slow down, but Blais is just getting warmed up. "A
breast implant sits at the crossroads of a lot of machinery. The chest
is not just a bag of tissue in which you can put anything. When you
put an implant into a place like this, you force it between muscles,
you have it sit on top of arteries, veins, lymphatic tissue and
what-have-you.
  "So as a result, all of these other bits of machinery that we call
our anatomy are changed. For example, blood flow into the chest is
drastically reduced. Part of this blood is part-and-parcel of our
coronary system. Basically the mammary artery, which is often very
close to these implants, is affected to the point that it seizes to
function and it calcifies. And that's again, an expected [result].
  "With time, the implants exert a sustained pressure. [.] As a
result of this sustained pressure, the ribcage gradually collapses and
indents. We have patients where X-rays show incurvation or collapse of
individual ribs that sit underneath the implant. And on and on it
goes. It's not rocket science, it's just the way we are made."
  With that final nail banged in the coffin, I turn to the question
of how did we, as women, as a society, get to this point? In all this
obsession over the appearance of our breasts-how big, how pert, how
they spill over, their upward (or downward) tilt-I feel like something
has been lost. We have forgotten what the biological function of
breasts was in the first place. Faussett brought it home for me.
  "There is no doubt that the female breast has been considered one
of a woman's most alluring features. I don't think that will ever
change," she muses, "but the difference is that in societies [in the]
past, the female breast was the source of nourishment that meant life
or death for an infant.  The very survival of humankind depended upon
the functioning human breast. In modern times, this is no longer the
case. Yes, breasts are still nourishment for infants worldwide, but in
our culture, we've made it optional to the health of the infant.
Formula abounds for the woman who does not want to use her breasts as
they were intended to be used. Couple the rise of the Playboy empire
with the advent of easily-obtainable infant formulas, and, the breast
has become more glamourous and sexy than ever before."
  And of course, this glamour has a downside. "Breast implants are
deceptive. They give women hope that they, too, can have glamourous,
sexy breasts. Unfortunately, that is not always the case," says
Faussett. "Hard breasts are not sexy. Obviously fake breasts are not
sexy. Numb breasts greatly reduce sexual pleasure. And if you happen
to be one who suffers from immune system dysfunction as a result of
exposure to breast implants, you can pretty much forget about sex, as
the last thing you will ever feel is sexy. Instead, you will feel like
you are an eighty year old woman in a much younger body as you fight
to function normally. It is definitely not sexy."
  However, Faussett asserts, "there is a dark side, and there is the
lighter side, which I think I've found when I realized that my
experience brought me closer to living a life that is purposeful,
joyful and satisfying, and without all the baggage of insecurity about
my body that I had. [.] I realized my inward beauty more than ever,
regardless-or in spite of-my suffering."

Addendum: as of Nov 17, the US FDA has decided it, too will be lifting
the ban on silicone breast implants (but not silicone testicular
implants, because of "inadequate testing"). For more information,
visit the implant awareness website I am setting up at
<www.implanttruth.jshood.com> It will include audio of the full
interview with Dr. Pierre Blais, as well as links to Dr. Diana
Zuckerman's, Patty Faussett's, Kathy Nye's and many other survivors'
and experts' sites, and much more.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/

www.BreastImplantInfo.org/

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Patty.html

http://kathynyebreastimplants.homestead.com/
John Richards - 09 Dec 2006 22:41 GMT
> Pleasure as in self-esteem and self-image. Have you ever worn makeup,
> dieted to lose weight or chosen clothes because you thought that they
> flattered you? Sometimes a permanent answer is needed to a permanent
> problem.

Non-invasive measures (makeup, dieting, clothes) are in a different
category than something as invasive as breast implants.
Most women who get breast implants don't really need them.
What's the point in going from a trim 36B to a bovine 40DD?
Women who do this have a few screws loose upstairs.

Signature

John Richards

Peter Bowditch - 10 Dec 2006 01:15 GMT
>> Pleasure as in self-esteem and self-image. Have you ever worn makeup,
>> dieted to lose weight or chosen clothes because you thought that they
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Non-invasive measures (makeup, dieting, clothes) are in a different
>category than something as invasive as breast implants.

I was merely making the point that there are degrees of coping with
the need for some type of self-image. To oppose breast implants in all
circumstances is idiotic. if you go back and look, I was asking in the
context of implants to correct such problems as widely differing
breast size.

>Most women who get breast implants don't really need them.

I agree, but those who really need them should be able to get them.

>What's the point in going from a trim 36B to a bovine 40DD?
>Women who do this have a few screws loose upstairs.

Possibly, but that isn't what I was talking about.
Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Coleah - 10 Dec 2006 01:17 GMT
>> Pleasure as in self-esteem and self-image. Have you ever worn makeup,
>> dieted to lose weight or chosen clothes because you thought that they
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Women who do this have a few screws loose upstairs.
> John Richards

I suggest that a minority of women 'bovine-ize' their chests
and most likely for some theatrical purpose.  For a majority of
women who have historically received breast implants it has
been for correcting or firming.....not exaggerating.

You are correct about loose screws IMHO, John.
Jwismille@aol.com - 10 Dec 2006 04:22 GMT
> "John Richards"
Eric® - 11 Dec 2006 22:58 GMT
Jan Drew wrote . . .