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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / July 2006

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Inflammatory Breast Cancer

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Christina in OK - 16 Jul 2006 05:05 GMT
Wondering if anyone here had this?

If so would like to speak to you about it..
Kaye301 - 21 Jul 2006 11:22 GMT
> Wondering if anyone here had this?
>
> If so would like to speak to you about it..

Yes, my dx included IBC
alex - 21 Jul 2006 15:11 GMT
kaye
Is that you? How are you doing? Glad to see you back online. Alex

>> Wondering if anyone here had this?
>>
>> If so would like to speak to you about it..
>
> Yes, my dx included IBC
Kaye301 - 23 Jul 2006 01:49 GMT
Yes--it is me.  Um, how am I doing?  Well, I am here <g>  Is something
going on--well, depends on who does the scan and who interprets it.
What I mean by that is I have brought private scans (including DVD) and
reports to our hmo.  On at least 4 different occasions, I have been
sent to 'specialists' who re-do the scans and discredit the results.
One would like to blame that on 'greed' from private dr's but I know
that is NOT the case.  In fact the private radiologist who has done the
scans is employed by the government and is on salary.  In addition, he
is in processing of developing new radiation techniques to be used for
treatment with what I have.  In fact a close relative has the same type
of bc and has some of the same issues going on.

Why am I still with them?  Part of the reason is where I am
living--CA--and the health insurance nightmares that are going on in
our state.  There are a multitude of reasons for that but a large part
is the large number of uninsured--in fact record has it at least 1/3
and it may be around 50%.  It's hard to know.

In fact I came across one student who told me that he has 4 different
names and 4 different social security cards as does his many siblings.
When I asked how he got that, he told me his dad got them for him at
birth.

As far as what is going on--something seems to be happening in my
spine.  Scans/scan reports are inconsistent but am most worried about
early leptomeningeal mets.  I am also concerned about possibility of
brain mets--but they are not in any location that is causing severre
problems at the moment.  I am having some pain/difficulty with vision.
However, 'new' young neurologist flippantly told me that even if
something were related to bc mets they can blame it on M.S.

What I would like to find--if anyone exists--anywhere in this country
(or elsewhere) who has the expertise to differentiate brain mets from
arthritic activity.

I am feeling reasonably decent for the most part, though.  My
lymphedema arm has worsened despite on-going bandaging and daily
treatments.  I am dealing with a system/providers who are treating me
like I wear a size 8D shoe and giving me a size 5 AAA.  Well, I need
something to wear on my feet outdoors and for that we wear shoes.  It
doesn't matter whether it is the 'right' size or not.  In other words
it doesn't matter whether the treatment they have prescribed is not
working and I am getting worse.   They offer no alternatives.

My onc (the one I switched to)--was seeing both but they decided I
would see this one--is starting to get a bit flakey.  I am still
getting the alternatives but suddenly he changes his minds about scans.
I think what happened there, per an article I read in magazine for
oncologists, is that medicare took them by surprise and changed the way
scans are being approved.  Supposedly they may have to order separate
scans--can no longer to CT of chest, abdomen, and pelvis, but have to
do each area separately.

I am on Arimidex, Betaseron (for MS), Lovastatin, Celebrex (400
mg/twice/day), Doxycycline (50 mg/twice/day), Levothyroid (became
hypothyroid 4 yrs ago), Zometa (every 3 mos)--have an interesting story
about that), and just started taking fish oil.  I think my vision has
improved somewhat since starting that.  I can read for longer periods
and am having less vertical double vision.  (However, I lost my classes
around the same time I started taking fish oil regularly and perhaps,
those were contributing to vision difficulties (blended lenses).
However, I don't think there has been enough time.

I am also doing some other alternatives which may have helped--homemade
kefir (a form of probiotics) which I add turmeric (curcumin) and
cinammon.  Funny thing about this--I received it as a gift the same day
I saw a dr. who recommended that I go vegan.  I was trying to think of
a way to thank the givers of the gift (friends we met up with whom we
hadn't seen in years) but decided just to take it and say thanks.  They
gave it to me in a ceramic urn with all the parapharnalia to use to
take care of it.  That night I decided to try it.  That was in January.
In October I had had a CTC (circulating tumor cell test) of "4."
Anything >2 is significant.  I re-took it, 3 months later--after doing
the kefir daily.  I had had horrific neck pain--could not lay down.
There appeared to be a soft tissue mass in my neck area they wanted to
biopsy.  However, I also had a tumor in my submandibular gland that I
wanted removed, per recommendation of private radiologist.  They
(insurer) wanted to biopsy soft tissue mass.  I had asked if it were
positive would they still allow surgery on gland.  They said no--I
would officially be stage IV and they would no longer have to do
surgery.   I said I wouldn't have that done until gland was removed.  I
got a few 2nd opinions--and chief of head and neck surgery said he'd
remove it.  (private ENT surgeon referred me to UCLA who could either
do the surgery or fine needle aspiration biopsy).  We then saw ENT
chief and decided to go with him.  We had sample sent to Rational
Therapeutics to test for different chemo combinations (paid
out-of-pocket) for that. If they don't have enough tumor in sample sent
will let you know in 3 days.  They said it responded to 7 of the many
different chemo combinations they tested.  However, we got report back
from hmo saying it was benign.  Head and neck (ENT) dr. had not answer.
However, he gave me copy of path. report.  It said they received "a
segment" of the gland.  However, after surgery he showed my husband
entire gland.  When I asked him why report said they received "segment"
of gland when he removed entire gland, he got all tongue-tied and
turned 'red.'  He could not explain.  Meanwhile I re-did CTC a few
weeks later and results were now "0."  Nobody could explain.

Meanwhile soft tissue lesion in neck had disappeared.  The pain from
that had starting going away before the surgery--so was it from the
kefir?  Was the change in CTC results from kefir or from removing gland
(which private radiologist said had tumor in it).  Hmo redid CT scan in
way which could not see tumor.  Oh, and during this time I found a
report from former dr. who used to work at our hmo who wrote stories of
how our hmo manipulated test results, particularly those that were
cancer-related--included substituting biopsies.  In addition they have
also changed reference range for given blood tests--at both ends which
results in delay of treatment and less treatment in given cases and
shorter overall survival time.  What has then happened is that private
insurers then try and make similar change...Wonderful...

The good stuff--I am working full time closer to home--same employer.
I am waiting until last possible moment to change insurers just because
of all the hassles with what is going on.  (Private dr. who has blue
cross ppo for whom treatment was done couldn't get insurance to cover
it, even though the treatment worked).

I  am sitting here now with tight-band like feeling around my chest.
My stomach again is enormous.  My lower legs are very swollen and
distorted.  (Private CT scan revealed 30 to 40 enlarged retroperitoneal
nodes.  HMO ct scan report on on scan done just 1 week earlier stated
there was 'no more retroperitoneal node involvement, even though all
prior scans indicated such).
I am a little more concerned because yesterday I had an episode of
urinary incontinence.  I didn't even have that much inside but was
unable to retain.  It hasn't happened again but will definately watch.
Sorry for the long report.  I haven't been around since aol dropped
newsgroups and couldn't get here.
How are all of you doing?  How is Allan's wife, Deborah?  How/where is
Tim Jackson?  How is Ann?  How is Sue from Texas and anyone else I
missed?

> kaye
> Is that you? How are you doing? Glad to see you back online. Alex
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> >
> > Yes, my dx included IBC
alex - 23 Jul 2006 05:37 GMT
Doesn't seem like much has changed  for you which is good. I often wish
medicine was a more exacting science.
Deborah, Allen's wife is doing well,  tumor markers remain low.  He can and
will fill you in on the details.

Tim has a new women and family in his life which presents new challenges.
Su is down in Texas miserable with the heat. Ann  (AP) and Mary are doing
well.

Alex

> Yes--it is me.  Um, how am I doing?  Well, I am here <g>  Is something
> going on--well, depends on who does the scan and who interprets it.
[quoted text clipped - 135 lines]
>> >
>> > Yes, my dx included IBC
Kaye301 - 23 Jul 2006 19:11 GMT
Hi Alex, thanks for the update.  Well, although there may not have been
alot of changes--there have been some positive.  Whatever was in my
neck that was causing severe pain is gone and tumor marker
(CTC--circulating tumor cells) went back to normal.   That's good.
And, more importantly, I am here <G> -- that's good.  My increasing
stomach size, though, am not sure is good--look 11 mos. pregnant, and
my very swollen lower legs and arm lymphedema (worsening is not so
great)...but I am having fun.  My husband and I will be celebrating our
30th anniversary.  We celebrated early--went to Switzerland--and toured
the country, staying with family of a former exchange student.  Our
kids are doing great--that good, very good.
Seriously, though, there is still quite a bit of inconsistency of care.
I think with our hmo they go by policy if they don't diagnose
something, they don't have to treat.  I don't think they are so unique
in that aspect.  That may be universal and sort of a bias amongst
treating physicians/insurence providers, etc.
There was a gal on another board recently dx'd with IBC through same
hmo.  At least they got dx correct although am not sure, from what she
described about her treatment, that it was aggressive enough.  She had
recurrence and got referral to major cancer treatment center and they
apparently approved for her to get treatment there.  This is 2nd gal
who was dx'd with IBC for which this was done by them.  Initially,
though her request for outside treatment had been denied.
And speaking of IBC dr's are being made more aware of it.  And as far
as treatment, Alex, I think Boston is one of the best places in the
country for medical treatment these days.  You are quite fortunate to
have so many good facilities and recognized programs there.
Our daughter just moved from there after completing her first year
residency.  She had been there for 10 years.  She was quite lucky to
have much of her training there.  I think she is already missing
it...at least some of the food...
Hope that all is going well with you and your family.

> Doesn't seem like much has changed  for you which is good. I often wish
> medicine was a more exacting science.
[quoted text clipped - 146 lines]
> >> >
> >> > Yes, my dx included IBC
Kaye301 - 23 Jul 2006 19:31 GMT
Just read through some other posts.  Although it is a bit easier
following some posts, I am a bit lost here and miss the format of
usenet which I guess no longer exists.  Greetings also to Lois and
madiba.  I read posts on thread by kilikini and, if you hadn't
suggested it--to get pathology reports re-read, would have done
so...great advice...FYI another good 2nd opinion source is Dr. Michael
Press at USC.  In fact I was sent there to have mine read by another
major, 'rival' cancer center (not our hmo) and told at that time  he
was the 'best.'  I probably should post this at end of that thread...

> Doesn't seem like much has changed  for you which is good. I often wish
> medicine was a more exacting science.
[quoted text clipped - 146 lines]
> >> >
> >> > Yes, my dx included IBC
LT - 23 Jul 2006 20:08 GMT
> Just read through some other posts.  Although it is a bit easier
> following some posts, I am a bit lost here and miss the format of
> usenet which I guess no longer exists.  Greetings also to Lois and
> madiba.

And greetings to you!  I felt absolutely humbled by the description of your
experience with IBC.

Your mention of tumeric reminded me of a 'yellow rice' (seasoned with
tumeric) that I used to make before I read about its cancer fighting
properties.  As a result I'm making it today.  A tasty way to get tumeric
into your system

The description of your HMO reminded me of my experience with Kaiser
Permanente when I lived in California - very good most of the time, and
sometimes questionable.

Wishing you continued good luck.

Lois
kilikini - 24 Jul 2006 01:00 GMT
> Just read through some other posts.  Although it is a bit easier
> following some posts, I am a bit lost here and miss the format of
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> major, 'rival' cancer center (not our hmo) and told at that time  he
> was the 'best.'  I probably should post this at end of that thread...

Kaye, nice to "meet" you.  I'm supposed to have a third pathology report
done, but the hospital I had my surgery at, dropped the ball and never sent
it out.  Unfortunately, my doctor is out of town until Tuesday, so he's
going to have to request the third report then.

I'm glad you're doing well as you can be.  I wish for nothing but good
diagnoses in your future.

kili
Kaye301 - 24 Jul 2006 01:38 GMT
Raher than having this facility do it, you can request the actual
slides and have them analyzed elsewhere.  When I had a 2nd opinion at
one major university cancer center after I had started treatment, the
2nd opinion oncologist suggested that we have the slides re-read at an
even different university (USC), stating that at that time (5+ yrs
ago), he thought the pathologist at USC was the 'best.'  Again, that
was more than 5 yrs. ago.  Either way, rather than having your current
facility get another reading, you are entitled to have the slides read
elsewhere.
> > Just read through some other posts.  Although it is a bit easier
> > following some posts, I am a bit lost here and miss the format of
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> kili
kilikini - 24 Jul 2006 01:44 GMT
> Raher than having this facility do it, you can request the actual
> slides and have them analyzed elsewhere.  When I had a 2nd opinion at
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> facility get another reading, you are entitled to have the slides read
> elsewhere.

Wow, I didn't know that!  I'd rather have them sent to Maui where my buddy,
who is the pathologist there, can read them.  I'd trust him with my life
(which is basically what I'd be doing).

Thank you for that info, because as of now, I don't even have 1 single
pathology report; they won't give them out.

kili
alex - 24 Jul 2006 04:09 GMT
It is now unreasonable to wait this long. I was able to get my slides and
bring them to my next facility. Perhaps Florida law defers. I would ask the
patient care advocate or representative what the law is. Also call the
Department of Public health.

You need to be your advocate, nobody else can do this for you. Your surgeon
has someone covering, he can certainly release your slides.

I would also get a copy of the reports this is absolutely your right. You
make have to pay a small fee for photo copying. This is unacceptable care.

>> Raher than having this facility do it, you can request the actual
>> slides and have them analyzed elsewhere.  When I had a 2nd opinion at
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> kili
kilikini - 24 Jul 2006 04:12 GMT
> It is now unreasonable to wait this long. I was able to get my slides and
> bring them to my next facility. Perhaps Florida law defers. I would ask the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I would also get a copy of the reports this is absolutely your right. You
> make have to pay a small fee for photo copying. This is unacceptable care.

Thank you, Alex, that's what I was thinking as well.  This is absolutely
ridiculous.  It's going on 4 months now.  Shouldn't I know what I have?
Shouldn't I know what to expect for the next part of treatment?

I'm angry.  I'm seriously angry.  And no one will help me.

kili
alex - 24 Jul 2006 08:05 GMT
Unfortunately,  even though you are at your most vulnerable you have to
fight.  Do call the patient representative/advocate tomorrow, be nice yet
firm. State you want this situation resolved by the end of the day or you
will have to take it to the next level . I would also ask to speak to the
head of medical records and ask her what your rights are. If it is confirmed
that you are being denied access to information that you are entitle to ...
the medical records administrator should get the information ASAP.  If you
get no response the department of public health needs a formal compliant
filed. You may want to consider speaking to a lawyer ( although this is the
absolute the last resort) since if any delay in treatment is malpractice.

Realistically, yes it has been four months since you symptoms first appeared
but this biopsy issue...the clock started to count after your surgery. I
don't know the structure of your hospital  is but I am guessing the
pathologist couldn't make a final determination, this is not uncommon. Your
case was presented to the tumor board ( this is a JCAHO requirement) which
only meets once or twice a month which couldn't be avoided.
It was sent for a second opinion correct which was also not conclusive.....
the hold up is the third opinion. It is causing needless emotional distress.

Last point, someone, a doctor ( doesn't need to be your surgeon) should
explain the situation, perhaps they are leaning towards  a benign growth,
which means time is in your favor and it won't effect your outcome.

If you have a friend who is a pathologist, sign a HIPPA release form and ask
him or her to call so you have a straight answer.

>> It is now unreasonable to wait this long. I was able to get my slides and
>> bring them to my next facility. Perhaps Florida law defers. I would ask
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> kili
kilikini - 24 Jul 2006 10:07 GMT
> Unfortunately,  even though you are at your most vulnerable you have to
> fight.  Do call the patient representative/advocate tomorrow, be nice yet
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> If you have a friend who is a pathologist, sign a HIPPA release form and ask
> him or her to call so you have a straight answer.

Thank you, Alex.  I seriously didn't know my options.  I guess it's a phone
day again for me.  :~)

kili
Eva - 23 Jul 2006 18:46 GMT
> .....Oh, and during this time I found a
> report from former dr. who used to work at our hmo who wrote stories of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> results in delay of treatment and less treatment in given cases and
> shorter overall survival time.
------------------
Is your HMO by any chance Aetna?

Eva
Kaye301 - 23 Jul 2006 18:54 GMT
Hi Eva, it's not Aetna.  It is supposedly a non-profit hmo --
supposedly largest at least in our state, if not country although it is
not in all states (that must spend a great deal of money on landscaping
as well as office/business maintenance--some of nices medical
facilities around).  I am wondering, though, that if our country should
adopt national health care whether they would have or are trying to get
their 'foot-in-the-door.'  They do some things very well.  I think that
I lucked out by them giving me Herceptin out-of-protocol, although am
not so sure it was out-of-protocol--but at least I got it.  Then again,
perhaps if I had been tested when I noticed a change (that tested
positive when finally  biopsied 9 mos. later), it would not have been
as advanced as it was...then again, there are a multitude of
possibilities...

> > .....Oh, and during this time I found a
> > report from former dr. who used to work at our hmo who wrote stories of
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Eva
Tim Jackson - 23 Jul 2006 20:30 GMT
> How are all of you doing?  How is Allan's wife, Deborah?  How/where is
> Tim Jackson?  How is Ann?  How is Sue from Texas and anyone else I
> missed?

Yeah, I'm still around.  Great to hear from you Kaye.

I'm living in "interesting times", but nothing to match the bc
experience, (thanking whatever supreme beings may exist).

Tim
Kaye301 - 24 Jul 2006 01:42 GMT
Hi Tim, great to see you--glad to hear you are living in  'ineresting'
times not directly associated with b.c.!  How is your daughter?  Any
future trips planned to this side of the world?  My offer still stands
should you visit our state--we have lots of extra room, if you'd like
stay here or we can just do dinner, brunch or ?
I still can't get here through aol dial-up.  I don't know why aol
abandoned USENET, although am not sure USENET even exists... Take care
and wishing you all the best!
> > How are all of you doing?  How is Allan's wife, Deborah?  How/where is
> > Tim Jackson?  How is Ann?  How is Sue from Texas and anyone else I
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Tim
A. P. Thorsen - 24 Jul 2006 15:32 GMT
> How is Ann?  

Ann is totally swell.

Still NED (cross fingers).

Am rowing in races (still not winning, but my boats have been doing a
little better than our traditional last place - 4th of 6, 8th of 11, and
2nd of 2 in Michigan Club Invitational races this past Saturday).

Feeling very well physically, though still a little fuzzy cognitively,
compared to pre-treatment.  I think that's permanent, though it has
improved slightly with a slight improvement in how I'm sleeping.

I'm about to retire from my job *this Friday* after 28 years.  Decided
to push my luck a little bit (i.e., accept a little more financial risk)
to get to early retirement, partly because of my health history, partly
because of worry about effects of stress on my health.  I hope to get a
part time position (25%) here with the University (it's looking pretty
probable), but have more time to indulge my hobbies.

I'm so sorry to hear you're still going through many physical problems
and the cycles of tests!  I'd been thinking about you lately & wondering
how things are going, but had no idea you were lurking or I would've asked.

It's good to hear from you!

Ann T.
Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email
madiba - 25 Jul 2006 17:13 GMT
> Yes--it is me.  Um, how am I doing?  Well, I am here <g>  Is something
> going on--well, depends on who does the scan and who interprets it.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> of bc and has some of the same issues going on.
> etc etc ....3 pages later.
<g> Good old Kaye, multiple terminal diseases but still hanging in
there!   Still questions every scan report but hangs on every word the
tech might grunt while he's pushing the buttons..
So nothings changed except yer belly's getting bigger dear
- me too, welcome to the club..   :-/

Signature

madiba

Barb - 21 Jul 2006 23:01 GMT
Hello Kaye,
Have been wondering how you are.  I haven't read as completely lately and
don't know if I've missed anything you've written.....but good to see your
name on my screen.

Barb
">
> Yes, my dx included IBC
 
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