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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / February 2006

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Back from the hospital

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Eva - 09 Feb 2006 15:46 GMT
I had my first-stage reconstruction surgery on Monday and came back home
yesterday (Wed.) afternoon.  I have 3 drains which I will probably have for
a month or more.  Taking a one-handed bath with the drains this morning was
difficult, but I was very glad to *get* a bath!

I had a lot of scar tissue on my chest wall and in my armpit so I don't have
the implant in yet; I have a tissue expander.  But even with the big
surgical scars it *still* looks better to me than it did before.  I feel
unaccountably happy.  Maybe it's the painkillers, or maybe it's the joy of
throwing my horrid "prosthesis" in the garbage.  (The "prosthesis" was
fiberfill stuffed into the toe of an old knee-high stocking.)

Thank you all for your great support.

Eva
lisa - 09 Feb 2006 16:37 GMT
Eva,

Welcome home!  I can remember throwing my prosthesis out, too - and
mine was a heavy, sticky thing and one of the major reasons I had
reconstruction.  I even thought of giving it a burial service but the
dump got it instead.

The drains are a pain and getting them removed is truly a wierd
experience (my advice?  don't watch).  Do you have help emptying them
or are you doing it yourself?  It's tough at first, but you get the
hang of one-handing it.

Enjoy the quiet time.
Take care,
...lisa
R. Fizek - 09 Feb 2006 21:27 GMT
Hi Eva,

Welcome back - glad you're home safe and sound.

Tamara
 Eva,

 Welcome home!  I can remember throwing my prosthesis out, too - and
 mine was a heavy, sticky thing and one of the major reasons I had
 reconstruction.  I even thought of giving it a burial service but the
 dump got it instead.

 The drains are a pain and getting them removed is truly a wierd
 experience (my advice?  don't watch).  Do you have help emptying them
 or are you doing it yourself?  It's tough at first, but you get the
 hang of one-handing it.

 Enjoy the quiet time.
 Take care,
 ...lisa
Eva - 09 Feb 2006 22:25 GMT
> Welcome home!  I can remember throwing my prosthesis out, too - and
> mine was a heavy, sticky thing and one of the major reasons I had
> reconstruction.  I even thought of giving it a burial service but the
> dump got it instead.
-----------
LOL!  Burial service!
-----------
> The drains are a pain and getting them removed is truly a wierd
> experience (my advice?  don't watch).  Do you have help emptying them
> or are you doing it yourself?  It's tough at first, but you get the
> hang of one-handing it.
-------------
My drains have rather long tubing, so I can use both hands to empty them.
The tubing sometimes gets tangled, though.  The worst problem is that
there's no way to conceal the drains under my clothes unless I keep my coat
on.  They're very bulky.  And of course their contents are nasty-looking.
I'll have to rig some sort of bag thingie up for them if I go out to dinner
or like that.
-----------
> Enjoy the quiet time.
-----------
Thanks.  I am.

Eva
x[yz]enophil44@hotmail.com - 10 Feb 2006 08:16 GMT
>> Welcome home!  I can remember throwing my prosthesis out, too - and
>> mine was a heavy, sticky thing and one of the major reasons I had
>> reconstruction.  I even thought of giving it a burial service but the
>> dump got it instead.
>-----------
>LOL!  Burial service!

I didn't think of it immediately, or I might have been able to do
something about it, but I actually felt quite upset that my breast was
taken off and thrown out wioth the rest of the medical waste, presumably
to be burnt somewhere.  I would have preferred to bury my own breast.
After all, it had been part of me for 61 years, and was older than any
of the consultants, surgeons, doctors or nurses were!!
Eva - 10 Feb 2006 14:45 GMT
<"x[yz]en"@hotmail.com wrote in message
news:4piou198ege3pn87rkcui2a1t5q07t9et2@4ax.com...

> >> Welcome home!  I can remember throwing my prosthesis out, too - and
> >> mine was a heavy, sticky thing and one of the major reasons I had
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> After all, it had been part of me for 61 years, and was older than any
> of the consultants, surgeons, doctors or nurses were!!
-------------
Just to be clear, we were talking about throwing away the *prosthesis*, not
the breast itself.  But wasn't your breast sent to pathology?  Mine was.

Eva
lisa - 10 Feb 2006 16:34 GMT
Yup, we're talking about the prosthesis...my breast went to pathology,
too.  I went through this almost ten years ago and at that time, they
did not have all these nice, light prostheses like they do now.  Mine
was this heavy plastic molded thing and it stuck to my skin.  It was
uncomfortable, to say the least.  By the time I had reconstruction, the
nicer ones were available.  I thought about donating it somewhere, but
I don't think that anyone would have really wanted it.

Someday in the future, archeologists will be plowing through our local
dump and be totally nonplussed when they find it!
Eva - 10 Feb 2006 21:22 GMT
> .... I went through this almost ten years ago and at that time, they
> did not have all these nice, light prostheses like they do now.  Mine
> was this heavy plastic molded thing and it stuck to my skin.  It was
> uncomfortable, to say the least.  By the time I had reconstruction, the
> nicer ones were available.
---------------
I'm glad to hear you say you've survived that long.  My deepest secret
nightmare is that I'll get through this reconstruction, breathe a sigh of
relief, proceed with all the plans I had to put on hold....and find out it's
metastasized, and die.

I am a very superstitious person.  I never realized how superstitious I was
until I got breast cancer.  I dread being greeted with "How are you?"
because I'm afraid if I say "Fine," it will piss off the Angel Of Death.
Funny, huh?

Eva

Eva
R. Fizek - 10 Feb 2006 21:50 GMT
Hi Eva,

I know what you mean - it is really good to hear when someone is that many years post but the more that I talk to people, the more I hear, oh yeah, my mom had bc 20 years ago or I have a friend who had bc 12 years ago and that was before they had the supposed "Big Guns" that we are getting (or already had).  I always think "I hope me too" and hope that that angel doesn't have other plans and that is really one thing that is going to be the hardest is the "unknown".  I often wondered if I will really get better or this is just going to chase me for the rest of my life before it catches me but hopefully we'll be lucky and tell someone 15 years down the line - yeah - I had bc - don't worry, you'll be fine.

I read your posts re the drains and how about wearing really baggy clothes?  When I was fat (er) I wore my husbands fleece and sweatshirts and they were so baggy that I thought no one could see how big I had gotten :).  Or  maybe a really bulky sweater - you have the  advantage that it's winter (is it winter where you are?) and can bulk it up and no one will be the wiser.

Tamara

P.S.,  I'm superstitious too but I found out when I had my son - when ever someone would compliment him I would give them the proverbial "evil eye" :)

 "lisa" <lisabucc@hotmail.com> wrote in message
 news:1139589244.408495.3320@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
 > .... I went through this almost ten years ago and at that time, they
 > did not have all these nice, light prostheses like they do now.  Mine
 > was this heavy plastic molded thing and it stuck to my skin.  It was
 > uncomfortable, to say the least.  By the time I had reconstruction, the
 > nicer ones were available.
 ---------------
 I'm glad to hear you say you've survived that long.  My deepest secret
 nightmare is that I'll get through this reconstruction, breathe a sigh of
 relief, proceed with all the plans I had to put on hold....and find out it's
 metastasized, and die.

 I am a very superstitious person.  I never realized how superstitious I was
 until I got breast cancer.  I dread being greeted with "How are you?"
 because I'm afraid if I say "Fine," it will piss off the Angel Of Death.
 Funny, huh?

 Eva

 Eva
Eva - 11 Feb 2006 02:30 GMT
I read your posts re the drains and how about wearing really baggy clothes?
When I was fat (er) I wore my husbands fleece and sweatshirts and they were
so baggy that I thought no one could see how big I had gotten :).
-------------
That wouldn't work for me--my boyfriend is thinner than I am.  I used to
have some baggy clothes, but they went out of style I guess in the late 90s,
so I gave them all to the clothing drive.  Too bad I don't live in Hawaii; a
muumuu would be the only thing that could hide these drains.
-------------
Or  maybe a really bulky sweater - you have the  advantage that it's winter
(is it winter where you are?) and can bulk it up and no one will be the
wiser.
--------------
Yes, I live in NYC, and although we had an unusually warm January, it's
definitely winter now.  Where are you?
Eva
alex - 11 Feb 2006 04:48 GMT
When I had my surgical drains I bought a soft camisole and used a safety pin
to hold them in place.  Alex
A. P. Thorsen - 13 Feb 2006 17:59 GMT
> When I had my surgical drains I bought a soft camisole and used a safety pin
> to hold them in place.  Alex

Yeah, I did a similar thing, but with loose t-shirts (i.e., pinned the
drains to the t-shirt), then usually wore a regular shirt (maybe left
open in front).  Seemed to work OK.

Ann T.
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lisa - 13 Feb 2006 12:48 GMT
I'm from a family that seems to be haunted by this disease.  My mother
was diagnosed 10 years before I was and is still active at 83.  I'm
afraid her sister died following a mastectomy that was not complete
enough - but that was at least 15 years before mom was diagnosed.  The
physician even admitted his error but by that time it was too late.  I
think there are quite a few of us long term survivors around.  I guess
that says something about early detection and agressive treatment.
lisa - 13 Feb 2006 12:48 GMT
I'm from a family that seems to be haunted by this disease.  My mother
was diagnosed 10 years before I was and is still active at 83.  I'm
afraid her sister died following a mastectomy that was not complete
enough - but that was at least 15 years before mom was diagnosed.  The
physician even admitted his error but by that time it was too late.  I
think there are quite a few of us long term survivors around.  I guess
that says something about early detection and agressive treatment.
John Richards - 13 Feb 2006 20:53 GMT
> I'm from a family that seems to be haunted by this disease.  My mother
> was diagnosed 10 years before I was and is still active at 83.  I'm
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> think there are quite a few of us long term survivors around.  I guess
> that says something about early detection and agressive treatment.

Sometimes even the most aggressive treatment fails.
Three years ago, my wife had a smallish (2cm) malignant lump in
one breast. She elected to have bilateral mastectomies. Margins
were found to be clear, as were the lymph nodes on the affected
side. She then had chemo, followed by Tamoxifen/Arimidex.
Two months ago the BC was discovered to have metastasized to
the liver and bones. Due to high serum ammonia levels, her quality
of life is really shitty right now, and she is thinking seriously
about pulling the plug.

Signature

John Richards

alex - 13 Feb 2006 23:48 GMT
John,
Sorry to hear about your wife, it is wierd how some with the most aggressive
disease can live a normal life while others with a good prognosis die. Also
sorry to hear about the quality of your wife's life, Let us know if we can
be of any support. Alex
John Richards - 14 Feb 2006 03:10 GMT
> John,
> Sorry to hear about your wife, it is wierd how some with the most aggressive
> disease can live a normal life while others with a good prognosis die. Also
> sorry to hear about the quality of your wife's life, Let us know if we can
> be of any support. Alex

Thanks for your support. So far the liver pain has been brought
under control with taxol, and the bone pain is kept in check by
pamidronate. However, the liver is failing to remove excess ammonia
(a byproduct of protein metabolism). She's been prescribed Lactulose
for this condition, but it's difficult to titrate. Some days it gives her
uncontrolled diarrhea, while other days it seems to do nothing. She
often has borderline chronic hepatic encephalopathy, presenting
with hallucinations and greatly diminished mental acuity.

Signature

John Richards

Tim Jackson - 14 Feb 2006 15:33 GMT
>> John,
>> Sorry to hear about your wife, it is wierd how some with the most
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> often has borderline chronic hepatic encephalopathy, presenting
> with hallucinations and greatly diminished mental acuity.
Tim Jackson - 14 Feb 2006 15:44 GMT
>> John,
>> Sorry to hear about your wife, it is wierd how some with the most
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> often has borderline chronic hepatic encephalopathy, presenting
> with hallucinations and greatly diminished mental acuity.

I am saddened to hear about your wife's unfortunate condition.  My wife
had a not dissimilar situation in her last couple of months.

I thought Lactulose was a stool softener, used in cancer palliation to
counter the constipating effect of narcotics.  How does it help remove
excess ammonia?  Isn't that a kidney function anyway?

However I can understand the difficulty in titrating Lactulose to
achieve a regular stool.  One problem is the slow response time, when on
the constipated side there can be a delay of three or four days before
the effects are seen.  So you have to think in terms of calculating
today's dose relative to the dose you gave three days ago, not
yesterday.  Otherwise you get into oscillation.

I can also sympathise with the mental problems.  When my wife was in
this sort of situation she could sometimes become very aggressive, and
accuse me of conspiring with the doctors to kill her.  I takes some
effort to cope with that, it is very distressing at first to see your
loved one attacking you, and you have to keep in mind that "it is the
disease talking".

Tim Jackson
John Richards - 14 Feb 2006 18:03 GMT
> I thought Lactulose was a stool softener, used in cancer palliation to
> counter the constipating effect of narcotics.  How does it help remove
> excess ammonia?  Isn't that a kidney function anyway?

A brief article here describes both uses of Lactulose:
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100001447.html
One of the liver's functions is to convert toxic ammonia to the
safer waste product urea.

> However I can understand the difficulty in titrating Lactulose to
> achieve a regular stool.  One problem is the slow response time, when on
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> loved one attacking you, and you have to keep in mind that "it is the
> disease talking".

Yep, the higher the ammonia level, the more the patient becomes
delusional, psychotic, paranoid and aggressive.

Signature

John Richards

alex - 20 Feb 2006 04:40 GMT
Prognostic factors for patients with hepatic metastases from breast cancer.

Wyld L, Gutteridge E, Pinder SE, James JJ, Chan SY, Cheung KL, Robertson JF,
Evans AJ.

1Department of Surgical and Anaesthetic Sciences, University of Sheffield,
Sheffield S10 2JF, UK.

Median survival from liver metastases secondary to breast cancer is only a
few months, with very rare 5-year survival.

This study reviewed 145 patients with liver metastases from breast cancer to
determine factors that may influence survival. Data were analysed using
Kaplan-Meier survival curves, univariate and multivariate analysis.

Median survival was 4.23 months (range 0.16-51), with a 27.6% 1-year
survival. Factors that significantly predicted a poor prognosis on
univariate analysis included symptomatic liver disease, deranged liver
function tests, the presence of ascites, histological grade 3 disease at
primary presentation, advanced age, oestrogen receptor (ER) negative
tumours, carcinoembryonic antigen of over 1000 ng ml(-1) and multiple vs
single liver metastases.

Response to treatment was also a significant predictor of survival with
patients responding to chemo- or endocrine therapy surviving for a median of
13 and 13.9 months, respectively. Multivariate analysis of pretreatment
variables identified a low albumin, advanced age and ER negativity as
independent predictors of poor survival.

The time interval between primary and metastatic disease, metastases at
extrahepatic sites, histological subtype and nodal stage at primary
presentation did not predict prognosis.

Awareness of the prognostic implications of the above factors may assist in
selecting the most appropriate treatment for these patients.

British Journal of Cancer (2003) 89, 284-290.
LT - 20 Feb 2006 12:38 GMT
Are there typical 'targets' for breast cancer metastases or is it completely
random?  Can any area of the body be affected?

Lois

> Prognostic factors for patients with hepatic metastases from breast cancer.
>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> British Journal of Cancer (2003) 89, 284-290.
alex - 20 Feb 2006 15:14 GMT
http://www.breastcancer.org/rcr_break_back.html
will answer your question.

> Are there typical 'targets' for breast cancer metastases or is it
> completely
> random?  Can any area of the body be affected?
>
> Lois
LT - 20 Feb 2006 17:34 GMT
Thanks for the information.  (Sometimes ignorance really is bliss. <sigh>)

Lois

> http://www.breastcancer.org/rcr_break_back.html
>  will answer your question.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> >
> > Lois
Chris - 20 Feb 2006 17:27 GMT
> Are there typical 'targets' for breast cancer metastases or is it completely
> random?  Can any area of the body be affected?
>
> Lois

Bones, lungs, liver, brain, retina
John Richards - 20 Feb 2006 23:58 GMT
>> Are there typical 'targets' for breast cancer metastases or is it completely
>> random?  Can any area of the body be affected?
>>
>> Lois
>>
> Bones, lungs, liver, brain, retina

The retina part bothers me.
My wife had an MRI scan of her brain one month ago, which was clear.
But she keeps saying she sees cockroaches crawling all
over the walls and floors. Not sure if this is an eye problem
or a brain problem. It's on my list of things to discuss with
the onc at our next meeting (Thursday).

Signature

John Richards

alex - 21 Feb 2006 01:30 GMT
> The retina part bothers me.
> My wife had an MRI scan of her brain one month ago, which was clear.
> But she keeps saying she sees cockroaches crawling all
> over the walls and floors. Not sure if this is an eye problem
> or a brain problem. It's on my list of things to discuss with
> the onc at our next meeting (Thursday).

I would call ahead to the oncologist, let him know that you need an extended
appointment. Sounds like you wife's condition has taken a radical change.
Sounds like an impossible home situation since you wife requires 24 hour
supervision. The use of restraints is considered abuse and only reserved for
only the most dire situations and certainly in Noting  home care. Also I
would ask if there is  a medical social work/case manager available. If you
have not made arrangements for you to act in her behalf, do it as soon as
possible otherwise you will not be able to apply for anything if she is
deemed incompetent.
Seeing cockroaches, is very typical of someone with hepatic disease. Reminds
me someone going through the DTs.  Best of Luck, Alex
John Richards - 21 Feb 2006 04:38 GMT
>> But she keeps saying she sees cockroaches crawling all
>> over the walls and floors. Not sure if this is an eye problem
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I would call ahead to the oncologist, let him know that you need an extended
> appointment. Sounds like you wife's condition has taken a radical change.

She's had the seeing cockroachess thing since shortly after she went into
the hospital on January 11 in a near coma.  After she was diagnosed
for acute hepatic encephalopathy, they treated it with lactulose, and
she was discharged from the hospital five days later; however,
the cockroach visuals have remained.

> Sounds like an impossible home situation since you wife requires 24 hour
> supervision. The use of restraints is considered abuse and only reserved for
> only the most dire situations and certainly in Noting  home care.

Not sure why you are nixing home care. She doesn't need restraints
and is not aggressive or suicidal as long as she takes her daily lactulose
medicine.
Incidentally, she *was* in restraints for two days while in the hospital,
because she sometomes became hysterical and tried to rip her IV out.

> Also I
> would ask if there is  a medical social work/case manager available.

The term "case manager" in a medical setting is not familiar to me
since I have not heard that term used under the Kaiser HMO health plan.
Her general practicioner (regular doctor) has been deferring questions
to the oncologist, so I suppose the onc is in charge of the case.

> If you
> have not made arrangements for you to act in her behalf, do it as soon as
> possible otherwise you will not be able to apply for anything if she is
> deemed incompetent.

It's on my list of things to do. I feel a bit overwhelmed at this point.

> Seeing cockroaches, is very typical of someone with hepatic disease. Reminds
> me someone going through the DTs.  Best of Luck, Alex

I've done quite a bit of reading up on liver cancer the past six weeks,
but had not come across any mention of this 'seeing cockroaches' symptom.

John Richards
Eva - 21 Feb 2006 13:41 GMT
> > Also I
> > would ask if there is  a medical social work/case manager available.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Her general practicioner (regular doctor) has been deferring questions
> to the oncologist, so I suppose the onc is in charge of the case.
----------------
A case manager is usually a nurse or a social worker, but could also be an
occupational therapist or other health professional certified in case
management.  It's not an MD.  The case manager's function is to coordinate
hospital, clinics, private doctors, labs, home care, etc. and make sure
everyone is "on the same page" and that services are not being duplicated.
You could call your insurance company and find out whether they offer case
management services.  At least in theory, this could potentially lighten
your burden .

Eva
John Richards - 21 Feb 2006 17:03 GMT
> A case manager is usually a nurse or a social worker, but could also be an
> occupational therapist or other health professional certified in case
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> management services.  At least in theory, this could potentially lighten
> your burden .

Kaiser HMO health plan *is* our medical insurance, and, as far as I know,
they don't use the case manager concept. Duplication of services is
unlikely since everything (hospitals, doctors, pharmacies, etc) is under one
organization. Each doctor or nurse in the Kaiser network has instantaneous
online access to my wife's entire medical file.
However, I agree that I could use a single point of contact to manage
things pro-actively and act like my ombudsman. I sometimes feel like
I'm barely keeping my head above water while treading water as hard
as I can.

Signature

John Richards

alex - 21 Feb 2006 21:57 GMT
You wife does not have Liver cancer but breast cancer with mets. There is a
difference I hope when you are researching you are looking at breast cancer
with liver mets otherwise for the most part the information could be use
less.. J had mentioned getting a wheelchair with a restraint, my only
concern was that you would not tie her at home since this is frowned upon.
The hospital personnel has been trained in the use of restraints and
physician has to renew the use daily.

http://www.bcps.org/offices/benefits/pdf/Kaiser-Permanente-FAQ.pdf

Kaiser does employ them. They work with your primary care doctor, for
example, ordering a wheelchair takes about 30 minutes. Between obtaining the
prescription, finding in the vendor, calling and faxing all the information.
The primary care doctor have time to make this a number one priority. Also
someone has to approve homecare, after the doctor orders it. The home care
agency can call the insurance, wait for eligibility, wait to find out who
approves the home care visits, and then wait for approval. A case manager
can call in the approval and make life easier for the patient and the
agency. They will also have a better ideas what services your wife in
entitled to since they contract with the federal government, you wife
unfortunately is not the first person be sick and apply for long term
benefits or retirement.  Or you can try and do it all yourself.

I can't tell you how many times a patient or family has paid for a piece of
equipment when it was covered by the insurance.
John Richards - 20 Feb 2006 17:08 GMT
> Median survival was 4.23 months (range 0.16-51)

I can't quite square that with:

> Response to treatment was also a significant predictor of survival with
> patients responding to chemo- or endocrine therapy surviving for a median of
> 13 and 13.9 months, respectively.

So, the reason the median survival is only 4.23 months is because
many patients either don't take treatment, or the treatment is not
effective for them. On the other hand, those who responded to
treatment (usually chemo), had their median survival increased
by some 9 months. Would it be correct to say that chemo can
extend life expectancy for liver mets patients?
Or is this a situation where the patients who "responded"
would have lived longer than the median anyway, even without
treatment? If the latter, then chemo perhaps does not extend
one's time left to live.

Signature

John Richards

alex - 20 Feb 2006 19:19 GMT
> >> Response to treatment was also a significant predictor of survival with
> >>  >> patients responding to chemo- or endocrine therapy surviving for a
> >> median of > Or is this a situation where the patients who "responded"
> would have lived longer than the median anyway, even without
> treatment? If the latter, then chemo perhaps does not extend
> one's time left to live.

This was a small review of patients 145,  chemo does extend life. No
treatment which has been studied ( prior to the use of chemo) does show that
people do respond differently to the disease, some with no treatment can
live for years. The use of chemo does prolong life months to years.  Younger
otherwise healthy woman tend to live a bit longer, then elderly women who's
heart and lungs just give up.
alex - 14 Feb 2006 22:15 GMT
Lactulose in some health systems is given as a laxative and it is hard to
titrate. But it is better than nothing. Alex
LT - 14 Feb 2006 00:09 GMT
.

> Sometimes even the most aggressive treatment fails.
> Three years ago, my wife had a smallish (2cm) malignant lump in
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> of life is really shitty right now, and she is thinking seriously
> about pulling the plug.

I was surprised to find out that though the lymph nodes were not involved,
the cancer could metastasize nonetheless.  I realize my notion of this is
too simplistic (and therefore very worrisome).  I wish your wife the very
best.

Lois
John Richards - 14 Feb 2006 02:45 GMT
>  
> I was surprised to find out that though the lymph nodes were not involved,
> the cancer could metastasize nonetheless.  I realize my notion of this is
> too simplistic (and therefore very worrisome).

Yes, we were very surprised about this also. Apparently some of the
original breast cancer cells had begun traveling in the blood
well before there would have been any lymph node involvement.
The onc had given her an 80% chance of no recurrence in the first
five years. I guess someone has to make up the unlucky 20%...

>  I wish your wife the very
> best.

Thank you. We are hoping that the current taxol and
pamidronate treatments will give her some relief.
She was in the hospital for five days last month due to
hepatic encephalopathy.

John Richards
Eva - 14 Feb 2006 04:18 GMT
> > I was surprised to find out that though the lymph nodes were not involved,
> > the cancer could metastasize nonetheless.  I realize my notion of this is
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> The onc had given her an 80% chance of no recurrence in the first
> five years. I guess someone has to make up the unlucky 20%...
----------------
Oh, I am so sorry.  I hope her misery is soon relieved.
Eva
Tim Jackson - 14 Feb 2006 15:32 GMT
> .
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Lois

There are other paths out of the breast beside the axillary lymph duct:
other lymph ducts and veins.  However a high percentage of outflow is
through the axillary lymph nodes, and so in most cases a metastasised
cancer will give rise to lymph node tumours.  But a small percentage may
be so sited as to only shed into these other ducts at first.

Tim Jackson
lisa - 14 Feb 2006 14:04 GMT
John,  I'm sorry that you and your wife are going through such a tough
time.  I pray that her quality of life gets better.

Take care.
...lisa

PS sorry about the double post above - no idea how that happened.
x[yz]enophil44@hotmail.com - 11 Feb 2006 00:33 GMT
>Just to be clear, we were talking about throwing away the *prosthesis*, not
>the breast itself.

Yes, I did understand that.

>But wasn't your breast sent to pathology?  Mine was.

I daresay it was, but after that it's disposed of as medical waste.  I
doubt whether they've preserved the remains in a glass jar, although I'm
sure they had plenty left over!!
Eva - 11 Feb 2006 02:25 GMT
<"x[yz]en"@hotmail.com wrote in message
news:b3cqu1l0gnq9aeo4q7a0l2qdnh5abafnjt@4ax.com...

> >Just to be clear, we were talking about throwing away the *prosthesis*, not
> >the breast itself.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> doubt whether they've preserved the remains in a glass jar, although I'm
> sure they had plenty left over!!
--------------
Heh.  Not in my case.  My breast was so small that the tumor was visible
through my shirt!

But on a more serious note, I felt like my right breast had *betrayed* me by
hosting the cancer that threatened my life.  I was actually glad to get rid
of it.  It didn't, in that scheme of things, deserve an honorable burial.
Eva
R. Fizek - 11 Feb 2006 17:48 GMT
Eva,

That is so weird to hear you say that about the betrayal!!!  I went through most of my life (up to age 38 or so) as a size 32 A.  I gained some weight when I met my husband, grew to a size 8 and a 34B (which was as big as they got even through pregnancy and 15 months of nursing).  After my mom passed away I got depressed and gained weight and also breasts - my husband thought the breast fairy came.  I know it is really unusual to grow breasts in your 40's - maybe that and the hormones are part of the problem.  Anyway - now I don't even wear normal bras - just jogging bras cause I felt "betrayed" and am trying my best to ignore that part of my body.  I have lost most of my extra weight, started wearing form fitting clothes (after the "baggy" era of the 90's) and spent most of my clothing expenditures on fancy lingerie this past year!  Why did I finally get them only to have them removed and the clincher is I have to get tested for the BRCA1 & 2 genes and the possibility of a double surgery if they turn up positive.  The word "betrayal" really fits the bill.

BTW - I'm in Pittsburgh - warm here too.

Tamara

 <"x[yz]en"@hotmail.com wrote in message
 news:b3cqu1l0gnq9aeo4q7a0l2qdnh5abafnjt@4ax.com...
 > On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 14:45:02 GMT, "Eva" <EvaDStructionNO@NOverizon.net>
 > wrote:
 >
 > >Just to be clear, we were talking about throwing away the *prosthesis*,
 not
 > >the breast itself.
 >
 > Yes, I did understand that.
 >
 > >But wasn't your breast sent to pathology?  Mine was.
 >
 > I daresay it was, but after that it's disposed of as medical waste.  I
 > doubt whether they've preserved the remains in a glass jar, although I'm
 > sure they had plenty left over!!
 --------------
 Heh.  Not in my case.  My breast was so small that the tumor was visible
 through my shirt!

 But on a more serious note, I felt like my right breast had *betrayed* me by
 hosting the cancer that threatened my life.  I was actually glad to get rid
 of it.  It didn't, in that scheme of things, deserve an honorable burial.
 Eva
x[yz]enophil44@hotmail.com - 11 Feb 2006 21:59 GMT
><"x[yz]en"@hotmail.com wrote in message
>news:b3cqu1l0gnq9aeo4q7a0l2qdnh5abafnjt@4ax.com...
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>hosting the cancer that threatened my life.  I was actually glad to get rid
>of it.  It didn't, in that scheme of things, deserve an honorable burial.

I didn't feel anything like that at all.  I was just really glad that I
found it fairly early, in view of the fact that it was hiding really
well, so much so that I had to show all the doctors and consultants how
to find it.  I also felt very lucky that I found it all, since it didn't
show up during the normal self-examinations I performed monthly.

And when I thought about the wonderful health I've enjoyed all my life,
never having anything serious wrong with me at all until I developed an
atrial fibrillation 6 years ago at the age of 56, I just felt as though
it must be my turn, particularly as my husband had developed a skin
cancer round about the same time as I had my AF;  fortunately he has
been clear ever since the surgery was finished and we hope will remain
so.
lisa - 10 Feb 2006 14:02 GMT
Eva,

I used a sling to hide the drains.  Everyone who didn't know better
just thought that I'd hurt my arm.

HTH.
...lisa
alex - 09 Feb 2006 22:17 GMT
Glad you are back and completed stage I, which I think is the hardest stage.
Sending positive thoughts your way, alex

--  
Barb - 10 Feb 2006 12:08 GMT
Hi Eva,
Have thought of you often this week.  I'm glad you are home and writing to
us!  Hope you continue to do well.  I thought the first stage of the
reconstruction was the hardest part too. Best wishes!

Barb
R. Fizek - 14 Feb 2006 00:39 GMT
Hi Eva,

Howz the one handedness going?  I hope you are feeling well and not too sore from the surgery.

Tamara
 I had my first-stage reconstruction surgery on Monday and came back home
 yesterday (Wed.) afternoon.  I have 3 drains which I will probably have for
 a month or more.  Taking a one-handed bath with the drains this morning was
 difficult, but I was very glad to *get* a bath!

 I had a lot of scar tissue on my chest wall and in my armpit so I don't have
 the implant in yet; I have a tissue expander.  But even with the big
 surgical scars it *still* looks better to me than it did before.  I feel
 unaccountably happy.  Maybe it's the painkillers, or maybe it's the joy of
 throwing my horrid "prosthesis" in the garbage.  (The "prosthesis" was
 fiberfill stuffed into the toe of an old knee-high stocking.)

 Thank you all for your great support.

 Eva
Eva - 14 Feb 2006 04:18 GMT
Hi Eva,

Howz the one handedness going?  I hope you are feeling well and not too sore
from the surgery.

------------------
It made for very inefficient snow shoveling, that's for sure!
Eva
 
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