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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / August 2005

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Study Suggests Breast Cancer Risk Linked to Estrogen "Not as High as Assumed"

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Tim Jackson - 17 Aug 2005 22:16 GMT
Reuters article on Medscape today at
www.medscape.com/viewarticle/510196?src=mp
(needs registration)

An Australian study of public data shows the overall increase in risk is
often only around a tenth of the background risk.

Tim Jackson
J - 18 Aug 2005 22:55 GMT
What a bunch of garbage.
J - 18 Aug 2005 23:01 GMT
> What a bunch of garbage.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Study Suggests Breast Cancer Risk Linked to Estrogen "Not as
High as Assumed"
Date: 18 Aug 2005 14:55:11 -0700
From: "J" <burglar_of_turds@yahoo.com>
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: alt.support.cancer.breast
References: <4303a91e$0$97095$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>

What a bunch of garbage.
Marni Lee - 19 Aug 2005 02:39 GMT
I don't believe it for a minute. I was on a very high dose of Estrogen for
five years and then I got breast cancer.

Marni

> Reuters article on Medscape today at
> www.medscape.com/viewarticle/510196?src=mp
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Tim Jackson
Bea - - 19 Aug 2005 17:44 GMT
I think that Study needs to be "Restudied".  I was on Estrogen for years
with my gyn telling me it was safe but soon as I got bc, he quickly
stopped the pills.  I think if they took a real study and did a
headcount on how many of us were on the pills and ended up with bc, they
would know the truth.  I am just furious that I did not go with my own
concerns and refuse to take the Estrogen.  If I had,  my life may have
been quite different.  

Bea
Prof Who - 19 Aug 2005 22:15 GMT
It's not just a matter of taking a headcount of those who take the estrogen
and those who get bc.  You have to consider what researchers call "correlated
omitted variables."  There may be a drug, activity, precondition, etc. that is
associated with those who take estrogen ... and that is the REAL cause of the
BC (not the estrogen per se).  Just to be silly, it could be that those who
take estrogen are all blonde.  And it could be being blonde that causes breast
cancer.  But if you just measure who takes estrogen and who gets BC, then
you'd could estrogen is the culprit ... when in fact, it's the blonde causing
it.  

This example is silly, of course, but when science advances, it's often
because they realize that there are these correlated omitted variables that,
once controlled for, make the inferences a lot clearer (or make you realize
that you don't really understand what you thought you understood).

What we really need (said sarcastically) is a controlled experiment where we
give estrogen to a random sample of woman and see if they get BC.  We'd also
give a random sample of women a sugar pill and see if they get BC.  Only then
can we control all of these other potentially correlated variables that cloud
our ability to make inferences.  But of course, such an experiment is not
going to happen in this country anyway.
Jackie - 22 Aug 2005 04:52 GMT
And yet I was never on Estrogen & here I am  :-(

hugs
jackie

> I think that Study needs to be "Restudied".  I was on Estrogen for years
> with my gyn telling me it was safe but soon as I got bc, he quickly
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Bea
Gabriel - 22 Aug 2005 10:25 GMT
The trouble with identifying risk factors for any disease is that, if
you don't have detailed information about the precise mechanisms, you
have to rely on statistical information. I won't use breast cancer as an
example -- to close to think objectively about. The value of a
statistical study depends upon the number of people involved and the
qualify of the study. Unfortunately, the experience of one person has to
have no statistical value: "I smoke 40 cigarettes a day and here I am at
90". Even "I phoned all the people I know and came up with these
figures" is far less than perfect; maybe you were all from the same area
(with high background radiation); maybe people who have telephones have
a healthier lifestyle?

I go into this not as a theoretical discussion, but because we all have
to judge future risks on present information, and we need to know how to
evaluate information.

Information published in the press and non-specialist publications, if
based on good studies, can be more meaningful, but can also be
dangerously misleading.

Information in medical journals, seen and criticised by other
researchers, is the best we have; but by no means perfect. Published
researchers are human; they make mistakes, have biased opinions which
affect their judgment, in rare cases just make up results and cheat,
have commercial sponsors keen to publish favourable results and suppress
unfavourable ones, and can produce results which are correct but
misleading. For example, some recent work (I don't remember the study
area, possibly bc) came up with results about a "one-in-9-chance" of
getting ill. But this turned out to be over a 10-year period, and was
misleading even for physicians.

As an example, look at how long it took to uncover the huge, glaringly
obvious, correlation between smoking, and heart disease and lung cancer.
Tobacco has been around for centuries; reports of these consequences
were fist published in 1950. I remember great arguments by smokers
rubbishing the idea that smoking caused cancer as late as the late
1970s. In earlier years parents sometimes recommended that their young
adult children should take up smoking (e.g., author Roald Dahl in his
autobiography "Going solo" about events of the 1930s).

Basically, the only way to get good information is to read what's been
done, and see what comes out. Earlier studies suggested that HRT was a
significant risk fact; the latest one reported in this thread says it's
much less important than thought.  Other researchers will be queuing up
to either knock down or confirm the newer results. The story is not
finished.

I don't have a medical background, buy am OK at statistics.

I hope this helps someone. To add to the anecdotal information: my wife
didn't take HRT but developed IBC/IV; this has no statistical value.

Best wishes,
Signature

Gabriel

 
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