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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / July 2005Heart Tests: Flaws & Failings of MUGA
I spoke with the cancer center, & the MUGA test doesn't actually check very good for heart damage. All that the MUGA report states, the only sentence in it, ..... is about the left ventricular (ventricle ?) ejection fraction, the percent. The MUGA test checks only one thing. It does NOT adequately check for heart damage or malfunction. Before (or if) starting any cancer treatments, I would recommend the ECHOcardiogram, which can check this & many other things about heart function, ...... & which is a simple, non-invasive, not-radiation-based, not-chemical-based, ultrasound test. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions >The MUGA test checks only one thing. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >function, ...... & which is a simple, non-invasive, not-radiation-based, >not-chemical-based, ultrasound test. Susan, I've had you in my twit filter for a heck of a long time but decided recently to check things out to see if they've changed. When you start spouting misinformation and recommending that misinformation to other cancer survivors it's time for me to speak up. Rant and whine all you like, but your information above is medically inaccurate. If you don't know what a MUGA scan does, why the LVEF measurement is important or what else the doctor can see I suggest you This is a cancer *support* newsgroup. Lying to people or making up stories to fill the gaps in your own limited medical knowledge isn't support. Before you start passing out advice perhaps it'd be good to make sure your information is solid - and in this case it isn't. And now, back to the twit filter you go. *plonk*  Signatureallan we don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. -- Anais Nin From: su-texas@webtv.net I spoke with the cancer center, & the MUGA test doesn't actually check very good for heart damage. All that the MUGA report states, the only sentence in it, ..... is about the left ventricular (ventricle ?) ejection fraction, the percent. The MUGA test checks only one thing. It does NOT adequately check for heart damage or malfunction. Before (or if) starting any cancer treatments, I would recommend the ECHOcardiogram, which can check this & many other things about heart function, ...... & which is a simple, non-invasive, not-radiation-based, not-chemical-based, ultrasound test. =====================================From: wizard@no_spam.pointbeing.com (allan grossman) Susan, I've had you in my twit filter for a heck of a long time but decided recently to check things out to see if they've changed. When you start spouting misinformation and recommending that misinformation to other cancer survivors it's time for me to speak up. Rant and whine all you like, but your information above is medically inaccurate. If you don't know what a MUGA scan does, why the LVEF measurement is important or what else the doctor can see I suggest you This is a cancer *support* newsgroup. Lying to people or making up stories to fill the gaps in your own limited medical knowledge isn't support. Before you start passing out advice perhaps it'd be good to make sure your information is solid - and in this case it isn't. And now, back to the twit filter you go. *plonk* Signatureallan we don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. -- Anais Nin ======================================Su_Texas writes: I'm posting from personal experience, & from what the Cancer Center just told me about the MUGA. They said the report contains one sentence, & that all it says is the LVEF percentage. If this information is incorrect, then the Cancer Center lied to me about it. And I doubt they did. Also, a whole lot more than the LVEF needs to be checked, ..... before, during & after chemotherapy, ..... & the ECHOcardiogram can do this. It's the preferred heart test by cardiologists. If you can't face or deal in facts, truth & reality, allan, then that's your problem, ..... of which you seem have many, including the need to act f-ugly in public, to encourage others to do so, & to brag about it. Since you've always acted nasty to me here, I don't expect your behavior to change for the better, ..... nor (as you well know), do I value your opinions or bad games, the harm you try to do. Please keep trying Not to read my posts. Learn to practice some impulse control, self-control, OK? You'll be a better person for it. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions >Please keep trying Not to read my posts. Learn to practice some impulse >control, self-control, OK? You'll be a better person for it. Nah. That wouldn't be any fun. I think maybe instead I'll start reading your posts and pointing out the inaccuracies - along with providing the correct information. It was kinda amusing that when your fallacy was pointed out you accused the medical facility of lying to you. They're not the ones who's credibility's shot here, Susan :-) Most people here are trying to support each other and IMO your posts are completely self-serving. Anyone capable of searching on your email address can find out exactly what kind of person you are. Suck a search is highly recommended. Have fun. I know I will ;-D Signatureallan we don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. -- Anais Nin From: su-texas@webtv.net I spoke with the cancer center, & the MUGA test doesn't actually check very good for heart damage. All that the MUGA report states, the only sentence in it, ..... is about the left ventricular (ventricle ?) ejection fraction, the percent. The MUGA test checks only one thing. It does NOT adequately check for heart damage or malfunction. Before (or if) starting any cancer treatments, I would recommend the ECHOcardiogram, which can check this & many other things about heart function, ...... & which is a simple, non-invasive, not-radiation-based, not-chemical-based, ultrasound test. ======================================= From: wizard@no_spam.pointbeing.com (allan grossman) Susan, I've had you in my twit filter for a heck of a long time but decided recently to check things out to see if they've changed. When you start spouting misinformation and recommending that misinformation to other cancer survivors it's time for me to speak up. Rant and whine all you like, but your information above is medically inaccurate. If you don't know what a MUGA scan does, why the LVEF measurement is important or what else the doctor can see I suggest you This is a cancer *support* newsgroup. Lying to people or making up stories to fill the gaps in your own limited medical knowledge isn't support. Before you start passing out advice perhaps it'd be good to make sure your information is solid - and in this case it isn't. And now, back to the twit filter you go. *plonk* Signatureallan we don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. -- Anais Nin ======================================== Su_Texas wrote: I'm posting from personal experience, & from what the Cancer Center just told me about the MUGA. They said the report contains one sentence, & that all it says is the LVEF percentage. If this information is incorrect, then the Cancer Center lied to me about it. And I doubt they did. Also, a whole lot more than the LVEF needs to be checked, ..... before, during & after chemotherapy, ..... & the ECHOcardiogram can do this. It's the preferred heart test by cardiologists. If you can't face or deal in facts, truth & reality, allan, then that's your problem, ..... of which you seem have many, including the need to act f-ugly in public, to encourage others to do so, & to brag about it. Since you've always acted nasty to me here, I don't expect your behavior to change for the better, ..... nor (as you well know), do I value your opinions or bad games, the harm you try to do. Please keep trying Not to read my posts. Learn to practice some impulse control, self-control, OK? You'll be a better person for it. ===================================From: wizard@no_spam.pointbeing.com (allan grossman) Nah. That wouldn't be any fun. I think maybe instead I'll start reading your posts and pointing out the inaccuracies - along with providing the correct information. It was kinda amusing that when your fallacy was pointed out you accused the medical facility of lying to you. They're not the ones who's credibility's shot here, Susan :-) Most people here are trying to support each other and IMO your posts are completely self-serving. Anyone capable of searching on your email address can find out exactly what kind of person you are. Suck a search is highly recommended. Have fun. I know I will ;-D ===================================Su_Texas writes: You've proved to be a common troll & stalker, allan. You play the Determinedly-Dumb & Dastardly game over & over, & act like (in your mind), it makes you wonderful somehow. ??? I didn't make a false statement, "fallacy" as you've claim, ...... about my experience with the MUGA test, or about what the Cancer Center just told me about it. Do all the searches you want. That's what the Google Archives are for. But don't use it as a lame excuse or justification to stalk, pester & harass me, ...... because of your obvious inability to read & comprehend the written word, your inability to think & reason, your lack of good morals & mindset, ...... because of Your problems, allan. This is a breast cancer support group, Not your hunting & preying ground. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions > This is a breast cancer support group, Not your hunting & preying > ground. Yes, please remember that, Susan. If you can't SUPPORT readers on this group just stay away. Mary >This is a breast cancer support group, Not your hunting & preying >ground. Signatureallan we don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. -- Anais Nin Self Pity I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. D. H. Lawrence > Self Pity > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > D. H. Lawrence How does he know? Tim >> Self Pity >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> > How does he know? He DOESN'T :-) He's dead too ... it gets us all whether we feel sorry for ourwelves or not. Mary > Tim >Self Pity > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >D. H. Lawrence Thank you. I wonder if he wrote that after he became ill with TB. Which reminds me that I have a tape of Kenneth Branagh playing a young Lawrence in "Coming Through" that I should rewatch while doing this interminable spring cleaning of the kitchen. Marilyn >>Self Pity >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Thank you. I wonder if he wrote that after he became ill with TB. I've no idea, I was looking up something else (not DHL) and it leapt off the page. > Which reminds me that I have a tape of Kenneth Branagh playing a young > Lawrence in "Coming Through" that I should rewatch while doing this > interminable spring cleaning of the kitchen. I really should begin mine :-) Life's so full of more interesting things to do though! Mary >> Which reminds me that I have a tape of Kenneth Branagh playing a young >> Lawrence in "Coming Through" that I should rewatch while doing this [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Mary This month is the first time in about 6 years that I haven't had student tenants living here full time, so I've been able to take everything out of a room, clean it properly, and put everything back. You can't ask paying tenants to climb over a bunch of upside-down furniture. This cleaning process has been working really well, except that a lot of things I need to find places for are all ending up in one room, which will probably have to be bulldozed. <g> Freecycling has been a lifesaver. People have taken books, a filing cabinet, bedding, a mattress and boxspring, and cleaning products. And to keep me motivated, I made a bargain with myself that on days when I clean or paint a room I don't have to go to the gym. When I get to the nasty basement in a couple of weeks I'll be saying if I go to the gym I won't have to clean the basement... Marilyn > Freecycling has been a lifesaver. It's a wonderful scheme :-) > And to keep me motivated, I made a bargain with myself that on days > when I clean or paint a room I don't have to go to the gym. LOL! > When I get to the nasty basement in a couple of weeks I'll be saying > if I go to the gym I won't have to clean the basement... I have no basement and no gym so I haven't that motivation :-( Making meals, however, is! Pasta tonight, still have leftovers (i.e. too much bought in) from the party. And once the courgettes start you have to keep up with them! Last night's rain has brought everything in the garden on, it's like a miracle. It IS a miracle. Marilyn, you're a woman after my own heart! Mary >>Which reminds me that I have a tape of Kenneth Branagh playing a young >>Lawrence in "Coming Through" that I should rewatch while doing this >>interminable spring cleaning of the kitchen. > > I really should begin mine :-) Life's so full of more interesting things to > do though! I'm curious . . . what is this mysterious "spring cleaning" thing of which you speak? <g> Ann T. Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email >>>Which reminds me that I have a tape of Kenneth Branagh playing a young >>>Lawrence in "Coming Through" that I should rewatch while doing this [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I'm curious . . . what is this mysterious "spring cleaning" thing of which > you speak? <g> Well, yes, only sluts need to clean. I'll not bother. Or perhaps I'll wait until spring. Or it could be the spring on the weighing scales which have a bit of dust on it. Yes, that'll be it... My old neighbour used to say that only mucky people have baths :-) Mary > Ann T. > Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email >I'm curious . . . what is this mysterious "spring cleaning" thing of >which you speak? <g> > >Ann T. I just read that Charlotte Church, the singer who does that horrible chin wobble when she sings, moved out of her flat and into a new one because the old one was dirty and she couldn't be bothered to clean it. Must be nice to be so wealthy. I'm obviously not getting any work done in this heat. Maybe a quart of ice cream would make me feel better. You are all invited to join me. Marilyn > >>Which reminds me that I have a tape of Kenneth Branagh playing a young > >>Lawrence in "Coming Through" that I should rewatch while doing this [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I'm curious . . . what is this mysterious "spring cleaning" thing of > which you speak? <g> ------------ When I was terribly sick and weak from chemo, for the first time in my life I engaged the services of a "cleaning lady." She comes and cleans my apartment every two weeks. This is absolute paradise, well worth the expense. I am now well enough to clean....er, to feel guilty about not cleaning....but I decided that life is literally too short to spend any more time feeling guilty about having a dirty apartment. I am really, really happy with my nice clean apartment and my wonderful cleaning lady. I am even inspired to start cleaning out closets and boxes and back shelves myself, because I don't have to bother about dusting, mopping, and vacuuming any more. Eva >------------ >When I was terribly sick and weak from chemo, for the first time in my life [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Eva This sounds really tempting. Marilyn > >------------ > >When I was terribly sick and weak from chemo, for the first time in my life [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Marilyn Then do it...I have had me cleaner for about 5 years now...Once a week my house is 'done'...I was working a lot of extra hours at the time and it was stressing me (Not a lot !!!) She is a semi -retired farmer's widow, and 'does' for a few folks round here..she charges less than 3 packs of ciggies (Which I gave up 12 years ago) to finance her coach holidays...Which I'm accompanying her on as soon as I've done radiation.... She's become a real friend and does anything I ask...dead down to earth......We go to bingo together now and again as she don't like driving to town ...Well reccommended. pam xx >Then do it...I have had me cleaner for about 5 years now...Once a week my >house is 'done'...I was working a lot of extra hours at the time and it was [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >pam xx I haven't cleaned well since chemo started in 2002, and really, for the last three years I've felt too blah and foggy to even make decisions about what to clean and how to do it. I did enough to get by, barely. Somehow in May this year I woke up and starting cleaning and getting rid of excess stuff. Two rooms (the worst two) and the basement to do, which will probably take till mid August if the basement needs new cement on the floor. I'm actually enjoying it right now. If I get someone to do a weekly or bi-weekly basic cleaning all winter, which I hate doing, and then I spend my summers doing the deep cleaning, repairing, painting, sorting and decluttering, room by room, which I like doing, then I'll have the best of both worlds. And I can probably pick up some cleaning tips too. Thanks for putting this in my head. And good luck with radiation. Hope it goes as well for you as it did for me. Marilyn, getting ready to clean the "food shelves" in my kitchen. Maybe there's some chocolate hidden away. > Somehow in May this year I woke up and starting cleaning and getting > rid of excess stuff. Have you heard of freecycle? Mary >> Somehow in May this year I woke up and starting cleaning and getting >> rid of excess stuff. > >Have you heard of freecycle? > >Mary I adore Freecycle. We've only had it a few months in my little city but I've given away an old double mattress and box spring to someone who was sleeping on the floor, a little space heater to a senior living in a basement apartment, shoes, hair conditioner, a filing cabinet, a glass cutting board, dishes, my old push mower, a humidifier, a comforter, old carpet, cleaning supplies and lots of books. And even better news is that I haven't brought anything extra into the house. <g> Today I found lots of little things in the kitchen to give away but there isn't any kind of theme to them so I don't know if anyone will want them -chopsticks, water glasses, a couple of old antique saucers, mugs, a plastic water pitcher, measuring spoons. I have three more shelves to clean so I'll just keep everything until I've finished. Maybe if I have a box full somebody will take it. Why does a single person living alone have 24 chopsticks? Marilyn >>> Somehow in May this year I woke up and starting cleaning and getting >>> rid of excess stuff. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I adore Freecycle. So do I. > We've only had it a few months in my little city I don't know how long it's been in my city but I've only been a freecycler since May. It's amazing what's offered! The other night I was given a Japanese cucumber plant, a butternut plant and something else the donor couldn't remember. It will be fun finding out! I wish FC had been around years ago, I've tipped so much stuff which I KNOW someone else could have used. I've also made some good, like-minded friends. It's making me WANT to give away perfectly good things I've acquired and don't need. Like all those towels from dead parents in law which are now cut up to use as nappies! Wish I'd thought of that ;-) > but I've given away an old double mattress and box spring to someone > who was sleeping on the floor, a little space heater to a senior [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > And even better news is that I haven't brought anything extra into the > house. <g> That's the key, isn't it! > Today I found lots of little things in the kitchen to give away but > there isn't any kind of theme to them so I don't know if anyone will > want them -chopsticks, water glasses, a couple of old antique saucers, > mugs, a plastic water pitcher, measuring spoons. I have three more > shelves to clean so I'll just keep everything until I've finished. > Maybe if I have a box full somebody will take it. I hope so. > Why does a single person living alone have 24 chopsticks? er - pass! Mary > Why does a single person living alone have 24 chopsticks? Regularly visits Chinese restaurants and habitually pockets the sticks? Check whether you also perhaps have 17 airline salt packets, 13 mini cartons of non-dairy creamer, 3 single portions of jam/jelly, 7 hotel soap bars and a polythene shower cap. Tim Who has a 3-year-old portion pack of Macdonalds ketchup in the kitchen for reasons long forgotten. >> Why does a single person living alone have 24 chopsticks? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >cartons of non-dairy creamer, 3 single portions of jam/jelly, 7 hotel >soap bars and a polythene shower cap. >Tim LOL. I used to work as a traveling auditor for the government and stayed in hotels where you got the cute little bottles of shampoo and shower gel. I couldn't resist those. At one point I had about 40 little bottles. Now that I'm retired those little bottles come in handy for packing my own shampoo and gel in, because I stay in bed and breakfast hotels that don't provide them. But I've whittled them down to about 6. I gave the chopsticks away yesterday to a nice single mom with two little boys who came to pick up some cleaning supplies I was freecycling. I had the top of my deacon's bench covered with extra glasses, mugs, spoons and things and she took that all as well. And was thrilled to get it. One of her children is in French immersion so I was able to give him a TinTin book that I don't read any more. Now I'm cleaning out my food shelves. I wonder how old does coconut and cooking chocolate have to be before I won't eat it? I'll probably never know! Marilyn >Now I'm cleaning out my food shelves. I > wonder how old does coconut and cooking > chocolate have to be before I won't eat it? I'll > probably never know! >Marilyn Try checking out this site Marilyn. Wouldn't want you getting sick eating spoiled coconut. http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/foods/348-960/348-960.html Bea >> Why does a single person living alone have 24 chopsticks? > Regularly visits Chinese restaurants and habitually pockets the sticks? > > Check whether you also perhaps have 17 airline salt packets, 13 mini > cartons of non-dairy creamer, 3 single portions of jam/jelly, 7 hotel soap > bars and a polythene shower cap. LOL! We have none of any of the above - but we don't eat out or up! > Tim > > Who has a 3-year-old portion pack of Macdonalds ketchup in the kitchen for > reasons long forgotten. If I were you I'd stand clear, it might explode at any time! Mary >You've proved to be a common troll & stalker, allan. I think just about everybody in this group would disagree with that statement, so I think I'll go with the majority :-* >You play the Determinedly-Dumb & Dastardly game over & over, & act like >(in your mind), it makes you wonderful somehow. ??? Neither determinedly, dumb or dastardly are proper nouns - there's no need to capitalize them, honest ;-) >I didn't make a false statement, "fallacy" as you've claim, ...... about >my experience with the MUGA test, or about what the Cancer Center just >told me about it. Horsefeathers. >Do all the searches you want. That's what the Google Archives are for. They do turn up some amazing things - the most amusing was when you told the cycling group that you thought you may have rabies. That was the same post where you said that Arimidex caused your lymphedema. It's a good thing you didn't say that here - you probably wouldn't get away with it ;-) >But don't use it as a lame excuse or justification to stalk, pester & >harass me, ...... because of your obvious inability to read & comprehend >the written word, your inability to think & reason, your lack of good >morals & mindset, ...... because of Your problems, allan. My comprehension of the written word is as good as just about anyone's, Susan. Far as I can tell my ability to think and reason is pretty darned good too. And morals? You're talking out your hat. >This is a breast cancer support group, Not your hunting & preying >ground. Then may I suggest you give up the self-serving garbage and try and provide a little support instead of all the misinformation and public whining? I hate professional victims. Have a nice day :-* Signatureallan we don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. -- Anais Nin > Horsefeathers. That's polite ... >>Do all the searches you want. That's what the Google Archives are for. > > They do turn up some amazing things - the most amusing was when you > told the cycling group that you thought you may have rabies. What cycling group is that? >>But don't use it as a lame excuse or justification to stalk, pester & >>harass me, ...... because of your obvious inability to read & comprehend [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > anyone's, Susan. Far as I can tell my ability to think and reason is > pretty darned good too. Yes - and I'm a stickler for such things. Mary one of the majority Mary, the cycling posts are at http://www.cyclingforums.com/showthread/t-83204.html ;-) > Mary, the cycling posts are at > > http://www.cyclingforums.com/showthread/t-83204.html > > ;-) Well, this was in 2004. Did Susan have the shots? Or did she get rabies? Did the cat survive? What happened to the other animals? I'm on the edge of my chair ... but really must go and hem those handkerchieves ... Mary allan wrote; They do turn up some amazing things - the most amusing was when you told the cycling group that you thought you may have rabies. That was the same post where you said that Arimidex caused your lymphedema. ==================================== Cats At that time, the almost-grown male cat Chocolate was acting very sick, off, aggressive. [Much later, I figured out he must have distemper or some such, partly by his BM.] It was horrible to watch him suffer, act aggressive & off, lurch around, howl & snarl. When I first saw something was wrong, I tried to pet & comfort him, then realized it was serious, that I was in danger, & backed away from him. And he started to foam a lot at the mouth, snarl, aggressively go after stuff (including me), stagger around, collapse. [He had been my favorite, the one who always greeted me when I got home, or came out of the house. So sweet, kind & caring.] He appeared to have rabies, & "for the good of the many", he needed to be put down, but I didn't have anything to do it with, & didn't know how to do it. Animal control wouldn't help. And I was concerned that if Chocolate were rabid, this would put others (including people) at risk. I tried to get Chocolate in a cage, & get him to the vet, but he tried to attack me each time, so I gave up. I was raising six puppies to be dogs for disabled. They hadn't had rabies shots, & I had to get them to the vet for that, ..... while dodging the sick cat & other cats. At the same time, a female cat came into heat, & some male cats showed up, were howling, competing & acting ugly. I didn't realize all this, & didn't understand what was happening until later. They made the most awful howling, & were aggressive & fighting each other, attacking. And the mama cat turned on her almost-grown kittens, attacking them, acting ugly. ??? The younger cats were very upset & acting off, & would rush at me, when they saw me, screaming. For safety reasons, I moved away for a few days or so. I'd come back, sit in the truck, ..... try to get out over & over, to get things done, .... & then jump back in the truck each time the cats rushed at me. Most of them were younger cats. Chocolate had been their major companion, care giver, source of fun, .... next to their mother, who was also rejecting them. And they were completely terrified, freaked out, & would run at me. Chocolate was from the mama cat's first litter. I was concerned Chocolate had rabies, concerned I might get it, the dogs might, the other cats might, that it might spread. Since there's no help here, I had to figure out what was wrong, & do what was necessary, as much as I could, ...... but I didn't know what to do. I'd pitch the cat food, as far as I could, to help get the cats back, .... then try to tend to the dogs. I managed to keep the dogs fed & watered, & to get them one by one, to the vet for rabies shots. Eventually, I figured out that the stray cats who were acting aggressive & off, were howling something fierce, snarling, acting ugly, & were terrorizing the young cats, ...... were there because the mama cat was in heat. I live on the edge of a small city, there is a lot of rural area here, & there is rabies. ----------------- I don't know what you're trying to make of this. ??? You allan, seem unable to read & process information, & seem rather narrowly focused & intent on harassing & harming others, ..... on throwing as much sh*t as possible (slander, lies, innuendo), hoping some of it will stick & do damage, ...... & you're choosing to do this at a breast cancer support group. You want to start & lead a gang-bang here. What happened with the cats, has nothing to do with the MUGA & ECHOcardiogram tests under discussion. And nothing said about it, can help Chocolate now, nor change what happened back then. If you are interested in cat diseases & behavior, then you might search for, read & post at a cat newsgroup. ----------------------- As added info; I don't particularly like cats. An elderly dog who was dying, took up with a stray kitten, & shared his food with her. Since he liked her, I let the kitten stay, & she started to reproduce. I'd little experience with cats. Since she was semi-wild, she wasn't catch-able. And since I had cancer, I had to be careful not to get scratched by her. In time, Chocolate did get better, & was himself again (loving & caring), but extremely weak. When I saw this, & saw him trying to eat dry cat food, I put out some canned cat food, mixed with water. He didn't make it. ------------------------ As for the lymphedema, I did get sudden acute lymphedema, about a year & a half or so after I started taking Arimidex (to which I had severe adverse reactions), ..... & the lymphedema kept getting worse, until I stopped taking Arimidex. FYI: The docs say, that when you have cancer and/or lymphedema, it's important Not to get scratched by cats. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions <snip irrelevant stuff> > You allan, seem unable to read & process information, & seem rather > narrowly focused & intent on harassing & harming others, ..... on > throwing as much sh*t as possible (slander, lies, innuendo), hoping some > of it will stick & do damage, ...... & you're choosing to do this at a > breast cancer support group. You want to start & lead a gang-bang here. Oh do stop being silly, Susan. > What happened with the cats, has nothing to do with the MUGA & > ECHOcardiogram tests under discussion. And nothing said about it, can > help Chocolate now, nor change what happened back then. Quite. > FYI: The docs say, that when you have cancer and/or lymphedema, it's > important Not to get scratched by cats. But all doctors are liars so you don't believe them ... Mary > Susan, Su_Texas my opinions Heart Tests At the Cancer Center here, they do the MUGA test before you start chemotherapy. Then they assure you, that based on this one test, your heart is in tip-top shape & ready for chemo, ..... that there won't be a problem with your heart. Then they refuse to do the MUGA test again, & do Not order an ECHOcardiogram, ...... no matter how sick or weak you get while on chemo, or stay after chemo. The oncologists here are super-Not-checking for the damage that chemo does. This makes me Not trust any statistics concerning this issue, Nor the "success rates" of chemo. ------------------ The oncs do keep ordering one CAT scan (with contrast) after another, .... a test which (for me) has never, ever shown anything wrong! The docs say that the important thing to focus on, is looking for new lumps, ...... because that's super bad in breast cancer care, & if they form, then you don't have a chance, ..... at which time, they'll have to basically pull out all the stops, in trying to help & save you (???), ..... ..... instead of their testing to see why you're so sick & weak after chemo. They refuse to tell you about or do legitimate testing, ..... testing which might find what's wrong. I super-don't-like the terrorizing & traumatizing of patients, which the oncologists do, ..... in order to get your cooperation in whatever BS (nonsense) they insist on doing, on selling you. -------------- The MUGA can test for LVEF. The ECHOcardiogram checks that & many other things. If you want to have both tests, then you can ask for them. I did not know to ask for the ECHOcardiogram before chemo, ..... nor to insist on tests during & after chemo, to check for heart damage. The cardiologists have acted amazed, that the oncologists did not order these tests during chemo, to check for heart damage. ----------------- The oncologists acted like the heart damage couldn't happen to me, that that wasn't a concern at all, ..... & they insisted I trust them, trust their judgement, choices, experience. Because I did trust the doctors some, I got repeatedly harmed by them. These betrayals hurt a lot then, & still hurt now. The damage done is permanent & painful, disabling & life-threatening. I'm hoping to help others avoid making the same mistakes, when seeking cancer care. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions PS Second-Opinion from Heart Doctor I met the second cardiologist today. [I also kept another appt today, & am extremely exhausted! Also, one of the dogs broke it's chain fastener (a welded ring) early this morning, & I had to buy & replace some parts before keeping the first appt. Also, it's very hot weather here, & I've no A/C in the house. Whew!] The cardiologist said: heart cath, pacemaker & defibrillator, & possibly a LE-VAD (sp?) in the stomach. I'm not too keen on having a heart transplant, & he wasn't too keen on it either. Yes! He gave me two meds to go with the Lasix. Inspra & Altace. ---------------- I had to wait an hour or two, after I got to this appt, but I had fun doing it. :) There was a guy there who had known my great-Uncle Dud & his twelve children (mostly the children), ...... who had grown up in this area, but who moved away & then returned after retirement. We exchanged a lot of stories about that family (WEHT), as well as shared some about our own life experiences. Fun! ----------------- Time to go get another tub of water, then tend to the dogs & puppies again. >Heart Tests > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >does. This makes me Not trust any statistics concerning this issue, Nor >the "success rates" of chemo. As we established earlier, the MUGA scan is a more accurate and consistent diagnostic tool for measuring heart damage than an echocardiogram. Your refusal to acknowledge the fact doesn't make it any less true :-D Let's poll our studio audience, Susan. Since Adriamycin and Herceptin provide the greatest risk of cardiotoxicity, has anyone received either without getting regular heart scans? Signatureallan we don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. -- Anais Nin From: wizard@no_spam.pointbeing.com (allan grossman) As we established earlier, the MUGA scan is a more accurate and consistent diagnostic tool for measuring heart damage than an echocardiogram. Your refusal to acknowledge the fact doesn't make it any less true :-D [[Reply: You've stated that the MUGA test is more accurate for measuring one thing, LVEF, ..... than the ECHOcardiogram. So far, I've not consulted with the Cancer Center or a doctor about your statement, to see if it is true or not, or to see if this degree of accuracy concerning that one test (LVEF) matters. IF it is true, then it might be best to get the LVEF testing done with the MUGA test. But you'd still need the ECHOcardiogram, to test for many other kinds of heart function or heart damage.]] ---------------------------------------------------------- allan wrote: Let's poll our studio audience, Susan. [[Reply: I don't like attention & do not play to audiences. I share information & experiences, & hope for some positive and/or educated/knowledgeable responses, or hope it helps someone. Knowledge is power. I doubt that many people would be interested, in the topics I write about. If you enjoy audiences, & imagine you have one somewhere, ..... then you'll probably play on to them regardless, drama queen allan, ..... to serve your own sick & selfish needs. From what you've just written, you give the impression of being manic-depressive, & on a manic high. ??? Since you act ugly here, try to do harm & enjoy it, i've no sympathy for you.]] ------------------------------------------------------------ allan wrote: Since Adriamycin and Herceptin provide the greatest risk of cardiotoxicity, has anyone received either without getting regular heart scans? [[Reply: Yes, I was given Adriamycin, without getting heart scans from the oncologist, during or after this chemo, ..... even though I was quite ill from the chemo & then the Arimidex.]] ---------------------------------- Susan, Su_Texas my opinions > > allan wrote: > > Let's poll our studio audience, Susan. > [[Reply: I don't like attention & do not play to audiences. WHAT?? > I share information & experiences, & hope for some positive and/or > educated/knowledgeable responses, or hope it helps someone. Knowledge is > power. You don't share experiences, you continually bang on and on about what you say are your experiences and your opinions about the morals and illegal practices of your medical advisers. If you were in UK you'd probably be sued for libel for what you've repeatedly said. > I doubt that many people would be interested, in the topics I write > about. So stop posting them. > If you enjoy audiences, & imagine you have one somewhere, ..... then > you'll probably play on to them regardless, drama queen allan, ..... to > serve your own sick & selfish needs. > From what you've just written, you give the impression of being > manic-depressive, & on a manic high. ??? On the contrary, Allan is among the most level headed, respected, helpful, experienced and *loved* posters on this ng and has been for all the years I've been here. I don't need to list the others, we all know who they are - but I will add Catharine who is no longer with us so can't speak for herself. Catharine suffered hugely, not only from her cancer, but she gave an enormous amount of joy, support and love to the rest of us. And so does Allan. > Since you act ugly here, try to do harm & enjoy it, i've no sympathy for > you.]] Well, Susan, it's apparent that several of us think that of you. I've tried not to say it for a long time but you've tried us all to the limit. We've tried to be patient, helpful, constructive, sympathetic, informative - just like your doctors, I suspect - and you have consistently been negative, foul mouthed and offensive. There's no place here for that sort of attitude. Yes, from time to time everyone can get angry and upset, none of us minds people venting from time to time but not all the time. Most of us listen to what others say, we learn from them and begin to understand that anger is destructive and that we can be happier if we relax. The calm after the storm is healing, the storm itself isn't. You've lost credibility and sympathy. It could be recovered if you stop your repetitive outbursts and begin to think of others. Why not give it a try? Mary I second what Mary said and appreciate her ability to say it nicely and accurately. Susan, at times you have been a caring group member. I hope you can focus on that and not your inability to trust the medical establishment and use what it offers. The bottom line is that doctors make their recommendations, you can do what you want. Chris > > > allan wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Mary >Let's poll our studio audience, Susan. Since > Adriamycin and Herceptin provide the > greatest risk of cardiotoxicity, has anyone > received either without getting regular heart > scans? -- >allan I got Adriamycin and was told I did not need a Muga or any other regular heart scans. Now you guys have me concerned with this. I was given Digitek for palpitations but my cardiologist says it is probably just anxiety. Should I be concerned?? Maybe I should just not read these posts and I'll be ok. Bea > >Let's poll our studio audience, Susan. Since >> Adriamycin and Herceptin provide the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Bea LOL! You could be right! Mary > Let's poll our studio audience, Susan. Since Adriamycin and Herceptin > provide the greatest risk of cardiotoxicity, has anyone received > either without getting regular heart scans? Hi, Allan, Fundamentally, I'm tracking with you on this whole thing, but have to admit: I had AC without the slightest whiff of a heart scan, before, during or after. At the time, I didn't know it was standard, so didn't know to ask about it. I asked a later medical oncologist about it, and he said (diplomacy mode fully engaged, I suspect) that perhaps the original onc, who was very experienced, felt it was unnecessary for someone of my age and general health. Happily, the piper has not requested pay: I've maxed my heart rate more than once on the erg (rowing machine), somewhere North of 183BPM, with no evil consequences other than a red face and a period of post-exercise gasping for breath (!), so I guess the "experienced" onc was correct (or lucky). Ann T. Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email I'm thinking of consulting a third cardiologist, before making a decision. I feel slightly better today, & am hoping to be able to get up, walk, move around a bit more. But mostly, be able to breathe, to get my breath. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions > I spoke with the cancer center, & the MUGA test doesn't actually check > very good for heart damage. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > The MUGA test checks only one thing. You forgot to update your http://community-2.webtv.net/su-texas/ site with the newest medical test that you don't recommend. mariestrack wrote: You forgot to update your http://community-2.webtv.net/su-texas/ site with the newest medical test that you don't recommend. =========================== Done. Susan, Su_Texas PS I need some help taking out trash, & tending to puppies. Any volunteers? Now that's funny ;-) >You forgot to update your > http://community-2.webtv.net/su-texas/ site > with the newest medical test that you don't > recommend. =========================== >Done. >Susan, Su_Texas Wowie! I just took a look at your site, Su and all I could think of was how many reincarnations did you have to have to see all those medical professionals!! I cannot imagine any human seeing so many doctors in just "one" lifetime. Not trying to get personal but you are either very old or have constantly returned to earth to fulfil your mission of doctor hunting, IMO. You are fortunate that the medical profession has not found a way to post your photo in the Louisiana and Texas post offices to warn each other you may be in town. What amazes me is that you can find "any" doctor who will still take you as a patient. What you are trying to do to warn and help others may be just the reason you are not getting the medical care you seek and seem to need so badly. I was so thrilled that none of my doctors were on your list! I live in one of your "do not go to States". I'm sure everyone has doctors they would not recommend (including myself) but it amazes me you actually saw so many in one lifetime. BTW, if you are elderly, there might be some organization for the Aged which will send someone to your home to help you with heavy tasks. You can find them listed in your phone book. Bea From: bsmp59@webtv.net (Bea -) Wowie! I just took a look at your site, Su and all I could think of was how many reincarnations did you have to have to see all those medical professionals!! I cannot imagine any human seeing so many doctors in just "one" lifetime. Not trying to get personal but you are either very old or have constantly returned to earth to fulfil your mission of doctor hunting, IMO. You are fortunate that the medical profession has not found a way to post your photo in the Louisiana and Texas post offices to warn each other you may be in town. What amazes me is that you can find "any" doctor who will still take you as a patient. What you are trying to do to warn and help others may be just the reason you are not getting the medical care you seek and seem to need so badly. I was so thrilled that none of my doctors were on your list! I live in one of your "do not go to States". I'm sure everyone has doctors they would not recommend (including myself) but it amazes me you actually saw so many in one lifetime. BTW, if you are elderly, there might be some organization for the Aged which will send someone to your home to help you with heavy tasks. You can find them listed in your phone book. Bea ==================================Gee, Bea, if you only had a working brain & some good morals. I realize that at every newsgroup, there is a nasty bunch of trolls who will play the determinedly-dumb & dastardly game over & over, ....... & then break their arms patting their own backs, snickering & acting "off" in their delusions of gory, glory. They get off on acting ugly, getting away with it, getting high on it, .... & on grouping with other trolls, bullies & cowards to act ugly, & do much the same. It seems to be the only power & control they have in their lives. This seems to be a primitive, social (emotional, Not intellectual/thinking), knuckle-dragging type of thing, similar to what Chimps do in the wild, to better bond as a group, ...... based on their harming, destroying, killing for pleasure ("fun"), done together as a group. I've no respect or liking for gang-bangers, for group followers, nor for their Chimp-style bonding stunts. They try to do a lot of damage to others, to enforce it, & act proud of it. They live in lies, cons, meanness, .... a worthless, empty existence. Nothing. BTW, the information I've posted, was never intended for someone such as yourself. I suggest you ignore it. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions <snip> Bea, Allan, others, why do yu always have a response to yourposts to Susan and I don't? I'm feeling neglected, out of things, it's not FAIR! Mary >Bea, Allan, others, why do yu always have a > response to yourposts to Susan and I don't? >I'm feeling neglected, out of things, it's not >FAIR! >Mary Oh Mary, it must be because we are so "brain dead" and "immoral". <g She would never accuse a delightful intelligent person as youself of being in such a low class. Maybe it was my nice post to Allen that made her think I was immoral. I did ask to "clone" him. Thank goodness "Allen" has a sense of humor.<g Oh well.....I don't like to correspond with people who don't have a sense of humor so I won't respond to her posts in the future. Isn't it great that this group is just one big brain dead, immoral, happy family. We can fight and call each other names and still be back tomorrow for more. After all, family is family. Bea > >Bea, Allan, others, why do you always have a >> response to yourposts to Susan and I don't? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > She would never accuse a delightful intelligent person as youself of > being in such a low class. Oh, you've not noticed that I'm a troll :-) > Maybe it was my nice post to Allen that > made her think I was immoral. I did ask to "clone" him. Thank goodness > "Allen" has a sense of humor.<g He has. He always has. He's a lovely man. I have his photo - and Tim's. Not yours though ... > Oh well.....I don't like to correspond with people who don't have a > sense of humor so I won't respond to her posts in the future. > > Isn't it great that this group is just one big brain dead, immoral, > happy family. Well, you're wrong. It's not100%. There's one poster who's right. It's everyone else who's out of step. > We can fight and call each other names and still be back > tomorrow for more. After all, family is family. Indeed. And no matter what the in-fighting, families close ranks when attacked from outside ... Mary > Bea >Bea, Allan, others, why do yu always have a response to yourposts to Susan >and I don't? It's because Bea and I are meanies and you're not, Mary. :-) Signatureallan we don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. -- Anais Nin >>Bea, Allan, others, why do you always have a response to yourposts to >>Susan >>and I don't? > > It's because Bea and I are meanies and you're not, Mary. I YAM. <stamps foot> And anyway, I'm a troll so there, nyer nyer! Mary >And anyway, I'm a troll so there, nyer nyer! >Mary But are you an "immoral" troll, Mary? If not, you can't be a part of our club. Frankly, I have a wee feeling you are a lassie of many dispositions. So welcome to our Den of Iniquity!<g Bea > >And anyway, I'm a troll so there, nyer nyer! >>Mary > > But are you an "immoral" troll, Mary? Oh, I can't remember. And I can't be bothered trawling (not trolling) through all those posts to find out. I suppose that makes me an idle troll. > If not, you can't be a part of > our club. Frankly, I have a wee feeling you are a lassie of many > dispositions. So welcome to our Den of Iniquity!<g Oh,thank you! Idleness has paid off :-) Mary who's mum still tells her it won't ... >Gee, Bea, if you only had a working brain & > some good morals. And maybe if you answered the question without having to start name calling, your info might be more helpful and believeable. I think it is a logical question to ask of someone like yourself. When you make a site available on the internet people like myself just might take a look at it and have questions. I think I understand it better now, Su. It's ok for you to post tons of negative info about the medical profession but not ok for anyone to disagree with you or ask questions about what you post. I think my question was a legitimate question and it's obvious you don't have a sense of humor. I will refrain from responding to your posts in the future. BTW, my brain seems to work ok considering what I do and my MORALS have never been in question by anyone. What amazes me is how my "morals" became a part of this post. I guess living in one of your infamous states must automatically give me bad morals. Bea Bea wrote: Wowie! I just took a look at your site, Su and all I could think of was how many reincarnations did you have to have to see all those medical professionals!! [[Reply: What you've written, comes across as Very insulting. And I'm tired of getting that here. In fact, today I'm tired, stressed, have a lot to get done (esp. concerning puppies, which I'm trying to care for & give away), am sick at stomach & throwing up, ..... & didn't expect a post like this from you. As for the # of docs, I was severely injured in Jan. 1998. I was shocked at being refused all medical care, & at the docs' lame excuses for this. I have good insurance. I felt it was my duty to keep looking, until I found any legitimate medical care that was still left in Louisiana & Texas, & to tell people where & what it is. (And there surely isn't much!) Every month for many years, I put everything I had into seeking medical care, made a lot of sacrifices & took a lot of risks, ..... trying to find any legitimate medical care for injuries & cancer. It was & is a nightmare, & deadly serious. Definitely Not something to joke about. On the newsgroups, I've written about his many times. Also, the doctors said I never should have survived the injuries in Jan. 1998, nor should I want to live in this much pain, with this many injuries. I do want to. The injuries are very severe. I had two strokes from them, & from the lack of medical care, in 2000.]] ----------------- Bea wrote: I cannot imagine any human seeing so many doctors in just "one" lifetime. Not trying to get personal but you are either very old or have constantly returned to earth to fulfil your mission of doctor hunting, IMO. [[Reply: That's insulting.]] ------------------- Bea wrote: You are fortunate that the medical profession has not found a way to post your photo in the Louisiana and Texas post offices to warn each other you may be in town. What amazes me is that you can find "any" doctor who will still take you as a patient. What you are trying to do to warn and help others may be just the reason you are not getting the medical care you seek and seem to need so badly. [[Reply: That's insulting. It's also the Denial & Blame game. Also, I didn't get WebTV & start to caution people using my site, until after Feb. 2000, I believe. I didn't learn about the internet, until Aug. 1998.]] ----------------- Bea wrote: I was so thrilled that none of my doctors were on your list! [[Reply: Good. You've been lucky.]] ----------------- Bea wrote: I live in one of your "do not go to States". I'm sure everyone has doctors they would not recommend (including myself) but it amazes me you actually saw so many in one lifetime. BTW, if you are elderly, there might be some organization for the Aged which will send someone to your home to help you with heavy tasks. You can find them listed in your phone book. [[Reply: I'm not. There seem to be a lot of things you don't know about, Bea, concerning the abuse I've been & am going through, ..... & you managed to hit some serious nerves, concerning that, ..... including that my family tried to take over, see I got no medical care, take everythting I had, & incarcerate me in a nursing home, right after I was injured in Jan. 1998. I've written about this at alt.abuse & other places, but I'd suggest you not read that, ..... that you focus on positive things instead, on getting & staying healthy.]] Bea =================================While I expect BS from trolls like allan grossman, Mary Fisher, Annie & such, I wasn't expecting a negative post from you. Maybe you didn't realize, how this post would come across? I've taken my duty to use my good insurance (which I've fought hard to get & keep), Very seriously, ..... to find & report on anything good I find in the Medical Industry. This has cost me an awful lot! I'm hopeful that people will use the information I've gained from this & have posted, & that it will prove helpful. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions PS I'm in severe abuse & danger, in hardship living conditions, have no safety & protection, ..... am struggling desperately to survive, & to keep the dogs & puppies alive, to do what's best for them. Today, I've been trying to get cardboard boxes, which I can use to transport one set of puppies to Longview, to be given away. Otherwise, I'll have to buy a large cage which I can't afford. The weather is very hot, & I don't have A/C. Also, I have to move the dog & younger puppies out of the rent house next door, because for some reason it's getting too hot in there, even though the house is shaded by a tree. Yesterday, I met with police officers again, concerning the ongoing abuse, threats, robbed & looted trust fund, harm done, ..... & I am still working to get an investigation into the public corruption, that allows & supports crimes & abuse here. The IRS is still coming after me, about the fraud my sister Nancy pulled with my trust fund. And these workers are Not bright, rational, reasonable, nor nice. They demand I furnish copies of the trust fund accounts, which I can't get. ?! Nancy has them, & has refused the courts & me a copy. So the IRS ignores Nancy, & keeps coming after me. ??? This has been going on, since about Jan. 2004. And I just got another letter/threat from the IRS. Yesterday, I phoned & spoke with Nancy, for the first time since she filed false charges against me last August, ..... since she had me arrested & incarcerated, since she robbed my home & burned my things, harmed my pets, stole my truck, etc. This is a horrible situation, & it's very stressful, difficult & dangerous, trying to deal wih the criminally insane (Nancy, Mom, Robert), in order to survive for now. I never know what sick stunt they'll think up & pull next. I'm also trying to keep appts, & get to medical care for CHF. I intend to survive!, And that is just part of it. -------------------- When you make comments about situations like this, please be careful. I apologize that my comments in response are harsh, but sometimes ..... >While I expect BS from trolls like allan grossman, Mary Fisher, Annie & >such, I wasn't expecting a negative post from you. Look, Mary - you made the cut! Signatureallan we don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. -- Anais Nin >Look, Mary - you made the cut! >allan Be care Allen. Have you forgotten our dear fellow poster has a lot of dogs! If we are not careful we just might make "the bite!"<g Su----if you are reading this--- please know we are just kidding with you. I am not against dogs. I used to have one about 40 years ago and understand your love for your doggies. Bea I'm not against dogs either. It's the human's I've got a problem with... Infact, I just got one back in May {actually for Mother's Day} Take care there dear/God bless annie > >Look, Mary - you made the cut! >>allan [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > you. I am not against dogs. I used to have one about 40 years ago and > understand your love for your doggies. I don't like dogs. I'm not frightened of them even though I hav been bitten. I can appreciate the beauty of someand how people get attached to them(even without the bite) but I'd rather have my hens. The very worst thing about dogs is their tongues. And their hair. And having to be 'exercised' (an odd euphemism). Trouble is, dogs like me. Like children. I try to keep aloof and ignore them but they still try to get on my lap. Mary > Bea >>Look, Mary - you made the cut! >>allan [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Bea I'm against dogs. Today I am anyway. My daughter's childminder just got herself a pedigree terrier pup, and I am now inundated with demands for a puppy. It'll pass. We'll be back to demands for body piercings again soon. Then I'll be against body piercings. Tim > I'm against dogs. Today I am anyway. My daughter's childminder just got > herself a pedigree terrier pup, and I am now inundated with demands for a > puppy. It'll pass. We'll be back to demands for body piercings again > soon. Then I'll be against body piercings. Compromise. Agree to body piercings for the dog ;-) Mary > Tim Whoa! I did too! I was feeling neglected there for awhile. I thought maybe she didn't like me anymore. I can't wait for the next installment. I'm also like "Mary" on the edge of my chair. But for now I'll go back to my corner and wait for "the rest of the story" ;-} Ahhhh......to feel needed, ain't life great? Allan, I'm also signing on with the "majority" in here. So stick around cuz' we like your sense of humor... Take care dear/God bless annie >>While I expect BS from trolls like allan grossman, Mary Fisher, Annie & >>such, I wasn't expecting a negative post from you. > > Look, Mary - you made the cut! I know! <PRIDE> Mary > >You forgot to update your > > http://community-2.webtv.net/su-texas/ site [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Not trying to get personal but you are either very old or have > constantly returned to earth to fulfil your mission of doctor hunting, ---------- The more doctors she visits, the more doctors she can sue for neglecting and injuring her. It's amazing, even the old posts to the "cycling group" contained references to being injured by the negligence of a shopping mall. She has made her agenda quite clear. She wants to make money from lawsuits so she can move to a better neighborhood. It don't *get* no sleazier than that. Drive drunk, get in an accident, sue the bar that served you the liquor when they *knew* you were already three sheets to the wind. Sue the car manufacturer for not installing a breathalyzer device that shuts down the car when the driver is drunk. Sue the distillery because the warning label on the bottle was only in English, and your primary language is...whatever. Eva Maria, I'm wondering when Webtv is going to catch wind of this and ban/dump her website due to the problems they could get themselves into with the info [lawyers/doctors name and locations] she's got out there. This could possibly bounce back on them, as they're supporting her site with their servers. This is slander and she and Webtv could be held accountable and "sue-d" for libel.This is more then likely covered in her terms of service. But she's so busy posting/attacking/harrassing here and about a gazillion other newsgroups to take the time to look into this. I've also got a Webtv [and had one since 8/97] and others have gotten in trouble for exactly this time of behavior. "Freedom of speech" is one thing, but most of this behavior is WAY over the top. Hmmm.....Annie's up all night, myswell have something to do, maybe a letter to either my server or Webtv might be order now. It's not like she's not been warned to stop this and find a new hobby. Take care there/God bless annie > Maria, > I'm wondering when Webtv is going to catch wind of this and ban/dump > her website due to the problems they could get themselves into with the > info [lawyers/doctors name and locations] she's got out there. (rest of post snipped...) Annie, It looks like that won't be necessary. It appears that the authorities are already watching her on the newsgroups and such. (Check out the latest in alt.abuse - her "law enforcement" thread). It is a shame that she has to be watched like this, but at the same time I feel very little pity as the misinformation she keeps posting here and elsewhere could cause a new person to panic and not believe in the medical information they've been given. I will pray that Susan receives the help she so desperately needs and will someday be able to lead a life without they hysteria that seems to surround her. It surely can't be a happy way of life now for her or her family. ... > It is a shame that she has to be watched like this, but at the same > time I feel very little pity as the misinformation she keeps posting > here and elsewhere could cause a new person to panic and not believe in > the medical information they've been given. That's been my concern for a long time :-( > I will pray that Susan receives the help she so desperately needs and > will someday be able to lead a life without they hysteria that seems to > surround her. It surely can't be a happy way of life now for her or > her family. No ... Mary I went over and read the "law enforcement" thread. This is my favorite part - "From an early age, my brother Robert had to kill at least one animal every day. And Mom loved & encouraged this, seemed to have orgasms concerning it, & then she was driven to seek & have more, to get higher. She loved cruelty." >I went over and read the "law enforcement" thread. This is my favorite > part - [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > higher. > She loved cruelty." You take your pleasures in unusual ways, Allan! Mary >You take your pleasures in unusual ways, > >Allan! >Mary I agree Mary. In fact, I don't think I will clone him afterall. His reading material is too raunchy for me.<g Seriously, many people have tales about their families they could tell but my dear beloved mom always taught us not to "air our dirty linens for the neighbors to see". Is Su aware that this personal stuff about her family is going world-wide over the internet?? Somethings don't need to be shared with the entire world, IMO. If it is serious abuse than it should go in private to the right authorities but world-wide on a website ??? Bea > >You take your pleasures in unusual ways, >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I agree Mary. In fact, I don't think I will clone him afterall. His > reading material is too raunchy for me.<g LOL! > Seriously, many people have tales about their families they could tell > but my dear beloved mom always taught us not to "air our dirty linens [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > than it should go in private to the right authorities but world-wide on > a website ??? Well ... you're making an assumption of veracity ... I think Allan and I are more sceptical. Mary > Bea Sadly, Deborah's said that for years, Mary. ;-) > Sadly, Deborah's said that for years, Mary. > > ;-) Well, she should know. <chortle> Mary > I went over and read the "law enforcement" thread. This is my favorite > part - [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > higher. > She loved cruelty." I'm glad I've had 2 cups of coffee :-) Otherwise I may not have believed what I just read. I missed it the first time around reading her post. Her poor mother..(I feel sorry for her family, especially since she has posted their real names many many times. The & or @ or whatever symbol she uses surely doesn't disguise their names much!) > Her poor mother..(I feel sorry for her family, especially since she has > posted their real names many many times. The & or @ or whatever symbol > she uses surely doesn't disguise their names much!) Ae they intended to? I thought is was an affectation. M@ry F!sher <G> |
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