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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / June 2005Yoga
The day after tomorrow it will be 6 months since my mastectomy. I had radiation afterwards. I have lost range of motion in my chest and shoulder, despite having done stretching exercises conscientiously. I also still have considerable pain in my armpit and at the site of the incision. I have to admit, I think it sucks that here in the U.S. we are not routinely referred for physical therapy after a mastectomy as you are in the U.K. Anyhow, last month, on the recommendation of a friend, I started going to a yoga class once a week. The exercise *exhausts* me--I sleep like a baby afterwards. I've gone to 5 classes so far. I feel really good when I leave, but I'm always in pain all over my body the next day. I guess it's too soon to tell whether the intensive stretching will help reduce the contracture. I have other problems besides the mastectomy. I have chronically swollen legs and feet as a result of taking Taxotere. I have chronic back pain as a result of working in a nursing home for 20 years. I have bursitis in my left hip which is awfully painful lately....*and* I have severe scoliosis, which is probably the reason for the bursitis (putting more weight on my left leg all the time). I figure exercise and deep breathing have to be a good thing.... I *like* yoga, although I find a lot of it difficult, and I really like this teacher, who is quite patient with me. But so far, no reduction in my aches and pains. Has anyone else here had any experiences with yoga you would care to relate? Thanx Eva > The day after tomorrow it will be 6 months since my mastectomy. I had > radiation afterwards. I have lost range of motion in my chest and shoulder, > despite having done stretching exercises conscientiously. I also still have > considerable pain in my armpit and at the site of the incision. ... (much snipped) ... > I have other problems besides the mastectomy. I have chronically swollen > legs and feet as a result of taking Taxotere. I have chronic back pain as a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Has anyone else here had any experiences with yoga you would care to relate? Hi, Eva, Hang in there! I found exercise to help a *lot* with post-mastectomy/post-BC issues, but it's been a longish-term investment situation for me. Background: I had bi-lateral mastectomies, lymph nodes removed on one side, radiation same side, 4 AC treatments (3 weeks apart), 4 Taxol (ditto), then a couple years Tamoxifen followed by Arimidex. I had some range-of-movement limitations after treatment, but not the degree of pain you're experiencing. I also didn't have your other physical challenges going in, but do have mild scoliosis, bad knees that act up periodically (my weight doesn't help!), and some tendency to tendinitis. Post-treatment, I was also having back recurring back problems. I'm 49 y/o now, 44 at diagnosis. Yoga was the first systematic exercise I did after BC treatment. It definitely helped with range of motion in my arm/shoulder, but also tended to make all my joints feel easier, almost as if they'd been lubricated. However, though there was incremental improvement along the way, it took perhaps a month to start feeling substantial benefits. For me, it also seemed quite important to do some yoga daily. At first, I would just do one or two "sun salutations" in the morning, but as I learned additional postures, I would also practice those that felt the most beneficial for my particular problems. Over a period of months, it made a very big difference for me. After yoga made some improvements, I moved on to weight training classes (still practicing yoga on my own at that point), then aerobics, then rowing. Every increase in flexibility & strength has improved my range of motion, and reduced discomfort (other than the occasional minor exercise-induced aches & pains, of course; I'm 49, not 19!). Moreover, the stronger & fitter I get, the less often my chronic problems act up. For example, I almost never have significant back problems any more. Anything that does pop up usually fades quickly with simple remedies (stretching, Ibuprofen, heating pad). I formerly had been diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), and routinely had abdominal discomfort. It's a thing of the past. That's just a couple of examples. Not to mention the recent research suggesting that BC survivors who get regular moderate exercise have better survival odds! Some of the women in my support group have also benefitted greatly from something called the "Lebed method", which is specifically designed for BC survivors. One of them began the program by following a book, then had such fabulous results (improved range of motion/reduced pain) that she helped get a grant to get a class going locally. More information about this is available at http://www.focusonhealing.net/ , including a teachers list, and information about books & videos. (I'm not affiliated with Lebed in any way, and have only done a sample session myself. By the time I learned about it, I was looking for more intense exercise for myself, but the many women who participate in the local classes -- whom I know from my support group -- are wildly enthusiastic.) So, I'm betting you'll see some benefits from the yoga, if you stick with it (especially as you're enjoying it, and it isn't *worsening* anything). Keep us posted, OK? I'm always interested to hear whether things that helped me also work for others . . . don't want to be passing on bad advice <grin>! Ann T. Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email > I ... do have mild scoliosis, wossat then? Mary >> I ... do have mild scoliosis, > > wossat then? > > Mary Scoliosis is left-right curvature of the spine. Excessive front-back curvature is called lordosis. I know about that, in an extreme form it's part of the end game for spinal mets, but it also happens to otherwise perfectly normal spines due to abnormal muscular stresses. Tim >>> I ... do have mild scoliosis, >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > part of the end game for spinal mets, but it also happens to otherwise > perfectly normal spines due to abnormal muscular stresses. Ah, thanks, Tim. I'll try to remember that. Mary > Tim > >>>[quoting Ann] I ... do have mild scoliosis, > >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ah, thanks, Tim. I'll try to remember that. ----------- Actually, according to what I was told by an orthopedist, most scoliosis is "idiopathic"--IOW, no known cause. Mine was first diagnosed when I was a very young woman. At that time it could have been treated by wearing an "iron maiden" sort of brace, which--being a very young woman--I refused to do. It started to get noticeably worse when I was in my 40s. I went to an orthopedist who said he could arrest it by fusing my spine and inserting rods on either side of it. The problem with this is that I would not be able to lift anything heavy afterwards--which meant I would not be able to do my job. So I didn't have that operation. Now I'm 57 and my spine is so crooked that I have to make the left leg of all my pants an inch shorter than the right--even though my legs are the same length. It's a damned nuisance, but not life-threatening. > ----------- > Actually, according to what I was told by an orthopedist, most scoliosis [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Mine was first diagnosed when I was a very young woman. At that time it > could have been treated by wearing an "iron maiden" sort of brace, WHAT? You wouldn't have survived - it's a cage shaped like a human being with interior spikes to spear the occupant when the lid is closed ... :-) > which--being a very young woman--I refused to do. I'm pleased to hear it :-) > It started to get > noticeably worse when I was in my 40s. I went to an orthopedist who said > he > could arrest it by fusing my spine and inserting rods on either side of > it. ! > The problem with this is that I would not be able to lift anything heavy > afterwards--which meant I would not be able to do my job. So I didn't [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > legs are the same length. It's a damned nuisance, but not > life-threatening. Nuisance is one thing but I'm pleased that you have a sensible attitude to it. In the past (perhaps today too) there were too many surgical interventions, horrible sometimes, to make people look 'normal' (whatever that is!) I have little time for cosmetic surgery ... <flood gates open!> Mary >>Actually, according to what I was told by an orthopedist, most scoliosis >>is "idiopathic"--IOW, no known cause. Yes, I was assuming the cause to be muscular stresses of unknown origin. >>Mine was first diagnosed when I was a very young woman. At that time it >>could have been treated by wearing an "iron maiden" sort of brace, > > WHAT? You wouldn't have survived - it's a cage shaped like a human being > with interior spikes to spear the occupant when the lid is closed ... :-) Mary, I don't think she meant the simile quite that literally. It would stop the spine growing any more curved though. :( >>It started to get >>noticeably worse when I was in my 40s. I went to an orthopedist who said [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>have >>that operation. It's fraught anyway. I have a friend under 40 with a spinal fusion for degenerative disk disease. It's not that good an idea in young active patients because it increases the load on the adjoining vertebrae, so the problem can just move up a bit and carry on unless the underlying cause has been found and addressed. And it can come loose, which isn't much fun either. Tim >>>Actually, according to what I was told by an orthopedist, most scoliosis >>>is "idiopathic"--IOW, no known cause. >>> > Yes, I was assuming the cause to be muscular stresses of unknown origin. That's how I read it. >>>Mine was first diagnosed when I was a very young woman. At that time it >>>could have been treated by wearing an "iron maiden" sort of brace, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Mary, I don't think she meant the simile quite that literally. It would > stop the spine growing any more curved though. :( You know about this corrective device, Tim? I know it's off topic but what's it like? >>>It started to get >>>noticeably worse when I was in my 40s. I went to an orthopedist who said >>>he >>>could arrest it by fusing my spine and inserting rods on either side of >>>it. ... > It's fraught anyway. I have a friend under 40 with a spinal fusion for > degenerative disk disease. It's not that good an idea in young active > patients because it increases the load on the adjoining vertebrae, so the > problem can just move up a bit and carry on unless the underlying cause > has been found and addressed. And it can come loose, which isn't much fun > either. That sounds awful. There are so many things to go wrong in our bodies, it's a wonder that any of us survive into adulthood :-( Mary > Tim >>>>Actually, according to what I was told by an orthopedist, most scoliosis >>>>is "idiopathic"--IOW, no known cause. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > You know about this corrective device, Tim? I know it's off topic but what's > it like? Not really, no. I assume it's basically a sort of rigid corset that applies pressure e.g. to ribs and pelvis to mechanically correct the alignment. I vaguely remember such things being talked about when I was a kid and my cousin was diagnosed with scoliosis. My folks muttered darkly about malnutrition because that side of the family had gone through some hard times around then. Her mum said it was because she carried her schoolbag on one shoulder. Like the lady says, idiopathic. Tim >>>>>Actually, according to what I was told by an orthopedist, most >>>>>scoliosis is "idiopathic"--IOW, no known cause. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > hard times around then. Her mum said it was because she carried her > schoolbag on one shoulder. Like the lady says, idiopathic. But is/was it known as an 'Iron Maiden'? That's a very specific device... Mary > Tim >>>>>>Actually, according to what I was told by an orthopedist, most >>>>>>scoliosis is "idiopathic"--IOW, no known cause. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >>Tim > There were several friends of both myself and my children who were treated for scoliosis. The devices they wore were like a body cast and they wore them for a long time. I also went to school, (we're talking the mid 50's) and there were 2 girls with severe hump backs who were suffering with scoliosis. It is not a fun thing to have. At an arobics class where a Chiropractor gave a talk, He said that most girls have a minor case of it. And inspected every spine in the class and found several slight cases. Not sure if he was drumming up business or not. Pat From Apple Valley, CA >> There were several friends of both myself and my children who were > treated for scoliosis. The devices they wore were like a body cast and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > slight cases. Not sure if he was drumming up business or not. > Pat From Apple Valley, CA That's what I'd have expected - that some spinal curvature (lateral or otherwise) is the norm. That means that a dead straight spine (not that I believe such a thing is possible) is abnormal - and perhaps needs correcting? Where is the line drawn? I know that I'm progressively hunched and I don't like the look of it and don't think it's good for me but it's come with wrinkles, grey hair, withered dugs and fat thighs. I could possibly do something about the last if there weren't so many other interesting things to do with the last years of my life but they're not so important. Nor is the bad posture. It might be apocryphal but I read somewhere that when x-rays were first introduced they showed that the alignment of internal organs were different from those found in cadavers. X-ray pictures were taken with the subject standing (and organs subject to gravity). Cadavers were examined lying on a table, with the internal oragns in different relative positions. So many people were advised (and underwent) corrective surgery, whereby internal organs were hitched up and sewn into the 'correct' position. Pah. Mary >>>There were several friends of both myself and my children who were >> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Mary I could see that sort of thing happeneng. It only stands to reason that the organs would drop with gravity. I would imagine that the early Dr's did a lot of looking around for the orans they wanted to work on as they wouldn't be where they thought..Funny now....Pat >> It might be apocryphal but I read somewhere that when x-rays were first >> introduced they showed that the alignment of internal organs were [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > did a lot of looking around for the orans they wanted to work on as they > wouldn't be where they thought..Funny now....Pat Yes - but in a hundred years what of today's technological marvels will be being derided as primitive ... ? Mary >>>>Actually, according to what I was told by an orthopedist, most scoliosis >>>>is "idiopathic"--IOW, no known cause. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > You know about this corrective device, Tim? I know it's off topic but > what's it like? These days, it is a hard plastic shell, usually going from the pelvis to the neck. I think once they would have been plaster casts. >>>>It started to get >>>>noticeably worse when I was in my 40s. I went to an orthopedist who [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> >> Tim > Yoga was the first systematic exercise I did after BC treatment. It > definitely helped with range of motion in my arm/shoulder, but also [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Not to mention the recent research suggesting that BC survivors who get > regular moderate exercise have better survival odds! ...... > So, I'm betting you'll see some benefits from the yoga, if you stick > with it (especially as you're enjoying it, and it isn't *worsening* > anything). ----------- Thank you very much, Ann, this is encouraging. I *hate* being in pain and out of shape. I was never Little Ms. Fitness, but I always took my body more or less for granted. I will hang in there. Eva > The day after tomorrow it will be 6 months since my mastectomy. I had > radiation afterwards. I have lost range of motion in my chest and [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Thanx Eva If you tolerate them, consider taking a non-sgteroidal anti-inflammatory drug (aspirin, Motrin, Advil, Aleve, or their generic equivalents) before the Yoga session and again in the morning. > If you tolerate them, consider taking a non-sgteroidal anti-inflammatory > drug (aspirin, Motrin, Advil, Aleve, or their generic equivalents) before > the Yoga session and again in the morning. ---------- Ha--I have to take a *Percocet* before the session in order to get through it without being in agony! But thanks for the suggestion. Eva >> If you tolerate them, consider taking a non-sgteroidal anti-inflammatory >> drug (aspirin, Motrin, Advil, Aleve, or their generic equivalents) before [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Eva Percocet is a very effective pain-reliever. It contains a class II opiate (oxycodone) and acetaminophen (Tylenol), but has no anti-inflammatory action. Consider adding an anti-inflammatory;it often helps quite a bit. Courses on pain management suggest thinking of the anti-inflammatory as a foundation upon which you place other pain-control techniques. > >> If you tolerate them, consider taking a non-sgteroidal anti-inflammatory > >> drug (aspirin, Motrin, Advil, Aleve, or their generic equivalents) before [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Courses on pain management suggest thinking of the anti-inflammatory as a > foundation upon which you place other pain-control techniques. --------- Okay, sounds reasonable. While I was on chemo I wasn't allowed to take any NSAIDs so I got out of the habit of taking them. Eva |
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