 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / May 2005Book - Why I'm Glad I Had Breast Cancer
http://www.dvorkin.com/brcan David Dvorkin david@dvorkin.com BUSINESS SECRETS FROM THE STARS: http://www.dvorkin.com/bizstars "David Dvorkin" <david@dvorkin.com> wrote in message I'm not usually keen on commercial stuff like this but there were two sections which I related to: The benefits I gained When I contracted cancer, I learned how much other people care about me. Having a life-threatening disease put an end to my fear of aging. The enforced rest gave me the leisure to look at my life and then jettison the things that were causing me the most stress. My appreciation of the small joys of life was greatly increased. Losing a breast gave me significant new insights into the entire question of breasts as they relate to sex, self-image, and femininity. (I didn't have a mastectomy but observed others who did - Mary) To sum up Surviving breast cancer left me a happier, calmer, more focused, and more appreciative person. Now my principal message to other women is that breast cancer does not have to be an entirely negative, terror-inducing experience. On the contrary, it can leave them better off than they were before, both physically and emotionally. I know, because it happened to me. My book is primarily the story of that physical and emotional journey. I'm interested. Mary >I'm not usually keen on commercial stuff like this but there were two >sections which I related to: Thanks, Mary. I hesitated before posting what I did, in this and other cancer newsgroups, because of course it is commercial spam. But my wife's book has much to say of personal interest to other women in her position, and I'm trying to do whatever I can think of to get the word out for her. David Dvorkin david@dvorkin.com BUSINESS SECRETS FROM THE STARS: http://www.dvorkin.com/bizstars I read the intro and agree your wife has much to offer, she is welcome here any time. Also why not publish it as a web page? >>I'm not usually keen on commercial stuff like this but there were two >>sections which I related to: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > david@dvorkin.com > BUSINESS SECRETS FROM THE STARS: http://www.dvorkin.com/bizstars Excuse me but this book and it's title makes me cringe! Sorry if I can't go "tip toeing throught the tulips of breast cancer joy" with the writer of this book but this is NOT a disease ANYONE should be glad about in my opinion! What about all the people who are not fortunate enough to survive it?? What about how it embeds a fear within some of us for concern of those in our families who might get it since we are a carrier now? Am I the only one who reads the obituaries and notices how many women actually don't survive this hideous disease? The writer should be so thankful if she has truly survived it but her book is not one I could appreciate. I have fought and survived numerous illnesses in my life and none has turned by life inside out as this one has. So I am NOT and never will be glad I got bc! What a joy to know the writer is. Maybe she can send me whatever she is taking which gives her that attitute. Then again, I think my distain of this disease is more normal for most who have it. Fight it I will, "like" it I won't!! Bea > ... this is NOT a disease ANYONE should be glad > about in my opinion! Of course it isn't and I don't suppose that the writer suggests that. I certainly wasn't glad about my diagnosis but having had that diagnosis I had to go through it. It was better that my cancer was found than if it hadn't been. I could have chosen not to have treatment of course but I took the course of treatment, in full knowledge of what it would mean and that there were no guarantees. As with a previous condition I had, which would have been fatal without surgery and could have been anyway, I chose to make the most of my situation, to learn about the condition and to marvel at Nature, Life and humanity's ways of treating such things. We are fortunate indeed to live in these days when a lot - if not everything - can be done to treat our condition and heal our bodies. > What about all the people who are not fortunate > enough to survive it?? What about them? Are you suggesting that we should all live for ever? Or that the natural condition of cell division should never 'go wrong' - which would of course mean that we couldn't regenerate because 'going wrong' is just an aberration of a normal function. > What about how it embeds a fear within some of > us for concern of those in our families who might get it since we are a > carrier now? It's not our FAULT that we're 'carriers'. You shouldn't feel guilty. And if we do have that kind of cancer which has a genetic source it's been there throughout generations, most probably. It doesn't begin in us. > Am I the only one who reads the obituaries and notices how many women > actually don't survive this hideous disease? I don't suppose you are but I don't read obituaries anyway (we don't get newspapers, we live our own lives). But obituaries, by their nature, don't mention all those men and women who DO survive cancer. I also believe that there are more hideous diseases. And there are more hideous deaths caused by Man. What are the ratios of horrible deaths caused by the recent invasion of Iraq and those of breast cancer in the participating countries? > The writer should be so > thankful if she has truly survived it but her book is not one I could [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Maybe she can send me whatever she is taking which gives her that > attitute. I doubt that she's taking anything to give her an attitude. I'm not, I've just decided for myself that I'm going to die one day (there was a time when I didn't think that but now I'm not even sure that I want to live for ever) and that I'm going to make every day count before that time. Having a life threatening condition forced me into that decision and for that I'm grateful. If I hadn't come to that realisation I wouldn't be enjoying myself as hugely. That first condition was a brain tumour, which was discovered by a very happy accident. Happy because if it hadn't I would have gone mad and then died well before now. As it was I suddenly understood how sweet and precious life is. I believe that it should be valued precisely because it is so limited. I lived to have my breast cancer discovered and treated. I have no symptoms of bc at the moment but I never say I'm clear or cured or in remission, I say I have breast cancer. I also have arthritis which is a much greater, chronic problem which will affect my lifestyle no matter how long I live, meaning pain every day and limiting my activities. That is also a genetic condition, some of our children are already displaying painful symptoms. They don't complain or worry about it either.sh.t happens, you use it as a fertiliser to grow better crops. > Then again, I think my distain of this disease is more > normal for most who have it. Fight it I will, "like" it I won't!! Er - the writer hasn't said, as far as I know, that she LIKES the disease or enjoyed having it. She reaped many benefits which would have been denied to her without it. Mary > Bea >Er - the writer hasn't said, as far as I know, > that she LIKES the disease or enjoyed having > it. She reaped many benefits which would > have been denied to her without it. >Mary Just so there is no misunderstanding of why I posted what I did......my remarks were not against anyone having the courage to fight any disease put upon them. However, we can mince words all we want but when someone states they are "glad" they had bc, to me, it still equates with the word "like" in a broad sense and can give others the wrong impression. If one checks his handy Websters, it can be noted that "glad" and "like" both have one of the same definition as being "pleased" about something. SO.....I still maintain the writer could have written her book sharing her life with bc WITHOUT using the word "GLAD". Many religions teach us that we are to use our pain to grow stronger and for most of us we have no other choice but to do so or give up. I, by the example of my own life, regardless of how I seem to appear in this group, think I have done this and it is the reason I am still able to be alive today. I don't expect or want to live forever but it would have been a better life for me and my family if I had never had bc. I can think of nothing good I have gained from the experience. Another reason the title of her book incenses me is that near my neighborhood once lived a truly beautiful, courageous woman. She seemed to inspire all with her ability and determination to survive her bc and all thought if anyone could, she would. Her positive attitude, her faith strong as a mountain, and her ability to live her life to the fullest inspite of her suffering were illuminating. Her family, her friends, all who love her were devastated when the cancer took it's toil on her and she died not too long ago. I don't think anyone who loves her would ever use the word "glad" with cancer! The reason I use the present tense for "love" is because I don't believe life ends with our physical death and our love for someone should always be with us even when they are not in the physical sense. Bea I will be a five-year bc survivor in October. Yes, it's true I appreciate every day that I've lived since that awful diagnosis but GLAD I have cancer? What part of Glad are we talking about here? Was it that moment the doctor looked me in the eye and said, "You have breast cancer"? Gee, I don't recall bursting into laughter. All I can recall is that I was numb from shock and it was undoubtedly the worst day of my life. And I don't remember feeling any glee when I phoned my two daughters to give them the news and heard them break into tears. And strange, but I don't recall what a joyful period of my life it was when I endured a mastectomy followed by eight debilitating "aggressive" chemo treatments followed by thirty-five radiation treatments for my 7 cc tumor, Stage III A cancer. My life changed on that bleak October day nearly five years ago. Yes, I'm grateful I'm still alive, and I lead a happy, useful life, but for nearly five years a little black cloud has hung over my head, all from the fear that my cancer might have spread. I have had 3 "scares" that I might have bone cancer. Each time, I had to get a bone scan and then spend agonizing days waiting for the results. Thank God, they've been negative thus far, but I'll spend the rest of my life living with the fear the cancer might have spread. And yeah, I know we all have to die some time, but there are better ways to go. And, oh, yes, taking Tamoxifen, followed by Femara has not exactly been a picnic in the park. The side effects (for me anyway) are horrendous: Profound fatigue, thinning hair, weight gain, and more. But considering the alternative, I keep taking those pills. I would suggest the author of WHY I'M GLAD I HAD BREAST CANCER return from La-La land. Or, at the very least, keep her convoluted opinions to herself. But then, why should she? She'll be making money from her book and will be hailed by some as courageous and inspiring. That does not includes me, though, nor, I suspect, most of the women, their family and friends, who've had to deal with the dreadful, life-changing diagnosis of breast cancer. > I will be a five-year bc survivor in October. Yes, it's true I > appreciate every day that I've lived since that awful diagnosis but GLAD I [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Hear Hear Pam "Shirley Kennedy" <shirleyken@frontiernet.net> wrote in message news:o7Pce.195 > ... the author of WHY I'M GLAD I HAD BREAST CANCER ... She'll be making > money from her book If she weren't making money from it would you think differently? Why not write your own book on how awful breast cancer is - to inspire and encourage newly diagnosed people? > and will be hailed by some as courageous and inspiring. And the opinions of those of us who think that are just as valid as anyone else's. > That does not includes me, though, nor, I suspect, most of the women, > their family and friends, who've had to deal with the dreadful, > life-changing diagnosis of breast cancer. In the author's experience, and mine, our life changes have been positive and not negative. I'm genuinely sorry for those who have found it a dreadful experience but it certainly hasn't been the experience of all the women and men I've known. It's not the end of the world for many of us, it changes it as do most life processes. The processes themselves might not be present but we certainly can be enlivened and rebuilt by them. Negativism is certainly not the recommendation of the acknowledged author of 'our bible' - Dr Susan Love. It wsn't of our late heroines - Catharine Honeyman and Mazza. They were both upbeat through the most dire experiences, they gave us all encouragement. I met Mazza and regret not making the push to visit Catharine in Hawaii. Then there's Ann Thorsen, another model here, and Allan's dear wife, Deborah - who's never heard except through him but is brimmming with enthusiasm for life through far worse experiences than most of us and determined to enjoy it. I apologise to anyone I've omitted who might read this, I love you all and I've learned from and been inspired by you. I certainly don't know what the last seven years of my life would have been without the experience of breast cancer and the many friends I've made through having it. I'd probably just be a boring old housewife and grandmother with nothing else to talk about! Unless, of course, I'd developed something worse (there ARE worsethings) or been run over by a bus. I don't think I'd have put so much into my health and well-being without being conscious of the preciousness of life. Mary > "Shirley Kennedy" <shirleyken@frontiernet.net> wrote in message > news:o7Pce.195 [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > > > hi Mary I am positive and leading a 'normal' life... but have to say that I certainly would choose not to have cancer, given the choice... I'm definitely not GLAD.. in any way , shape or form that I'm a sufferer... For me and my family, it has been an awful experience.... albeit, making us all appreciate life and nature. doesn't alter the facts tho' really wish things back to before diagnosis' > Pam xxx > ....Unless, of course, I'd developed something worse (there ARE worsethings) .... ----------- Yes, thank you; I *need* to be constantly reminded of that. Alzheimer's is much worse. Lou Gehrig's Disease (ALS) is much worse. Pancreatic cancer, for that matter, is much worse. I am, in that sense, glad I have breast cancer and not one of those. Yet. The ever-pessimistic Eva >>....Unless, of course, I'd developed something worse (there ARE > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > The ever-pessimistic Eva How are they any worse? They all end in death! Right now in Stage IV I am in constant pain from Mets and have been having chemo for a year with no results. I am still alive, but for how much longer? At least if you have Alzheimers you don't remember how miserable you were....Pat from Apple Valley CA. >>>....Unless, of course, I'd developed something worse (there ARE >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > in constant pain from Mets and have been having chemo for a year with no > results. I am still alive, but for how much longer? Pat, it sounds hard but none of us knows how long we'll be alive. There's always that bus waiting for us ... How long would you like to live? > At least if you have Alzheimers you don't remember how miserable you > were.... Well, a few days ago my 90 year old friend of forty years died. He certainly was not happy and, having had a stroke thirty years ago, hadn't walked since. When he fell out of bed recently he broke his hip. He just lay in bed, awake but with no interest in anything. His death was a release for him, his wife, sons, grandchildren and friends. Visiting him was awful - and it had lasted for years.His wife is now free of her self-imposed and very long responsibility and has to start living again, it's not going to be easy. He didn't die of Alzheimers but of kidney failure. Mary Pat from > Apple Valley CA. > >>....Unless, of course, I'd developed something worse (there ARE > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > have Alzheimers you don't remember how miserable you were....Pat from > Apple Valley CA. --------- Pat, I work in a nursing home, and first of all people with Alzheimer's go through a horrible stage where they scream all day long or constantly beg for their mothers, and secondly the agony their families go through watching this "thing" that has their loved one's body but no mind....to me it's the worst fate that can befall anyone. Eva >> ....Unless, of course, I'd developed something worse (there ARE > worsethings) .... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Yet. Well, of course, those are always possibilities! But don't worry about them until they happen. I'd add MS to your list. > The ever-pessimistic Eva LOL The ever optimistic Mary :-) (no point in being anything else, no-one ever added a day to her life by worrying) >> That does not includes me, though, nor, I suspect, most of the women, >> their family and friends, who've had to deal with the dreadful, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >as do most life processes. The processes themselves might not be present but >we certainly can be enlivened and rebuilt by them. My late wife Gloria died a little over a year ago after a four year battle with breast cancer. Like many in this thread I find the title of the book offensive. Suggestions that I use my valuable time to read it are laughable. I'd like to remind everyone that for some breast cancer is the end of their life. I'm very happy for survivors, but let's remember they're the ones writing books. Dead folks don't write much. - Tony Lima > Negativism is certainly not the recommendation of the acknowledged author of > 'our bible' - Dr Susan Love. Yah. Negativity & four bucks will get me a grande latte. Positivity leaves me with the same beverage, perhaps but I'll be at least a bit happier as I drink it. (Mmmm, latte!) Far from me to advocate pollyanna-fied stupidity here -- I'm a bit of a cynic, myself -- but who doubts one can draw lessons, character, insight or growth from many apalling circumstances, and be benefitted in some way . . . even if not benefitted on balance once the bad & good about the circumstances are averaged then compared with total nirvana-esque perfection? > It wsn't of our late heroines - Catharine > Honeyman and Mazza. They were both upbeat through the most dire experiences, > they gave us all encouragement. I met Mazza and regret not making the push > to visit Catharine in Hawaii. > Then there's Ann Thorsen, another model here, and Allan's dear wife, > Deborah - who's never heard except through him but is brimmming with > enthusiasm for life through far worse experiences than most of us and > determined to enjoy it. OMG, Mary! You must leave my name out of this. I'm a former-stage-3, now NED, who wants to get on with it & indulge myself in being as happy as I can manage because life is too <bleep> short for any & all of us. The others you name face(d) the real lump-in-throat stuff -- as have Pat from Apple Valley & so many others here -- and show(ed) exemplary grace doing so. In like circumstances, I'm sure I'd be useless, or hopeless, or something -- certainly non-exemplary. And I'm enough of a coward that I'd prefer not to find out. > I apologise to anyone I've omitted who might read this, I love you all and > I've learned from and been inspired by you. I certainly don't know what the > last seven years of my life would have been without the experience of breast > cancer and the many friends I've made through having it. I'd probably just > be a boring old housewife and grandmother with nothing else to talk about! This last sentence seems quite, -quite- doubtful. Now, leaving aside comments to Mary personally & responding to the general conversation: Frankly, since I care for so many of you on this group, this thread has got me a bit bothered. If I were a cartoon character, I'd have great big round eyes, sticking-out hair, and little exclamation points drawn in around my head! At the risk of getting all preachy: I feel like we're reacting more to one another's words, than to the meaning each is trying to get across. I feel as if some find the title of Lenore's book so offensive that it's impossible not to judge the book (and author) by the cover, er, title. Others seem to worry that if that first group is offended by the title, then they must think they've learned nothing positive about themselves nor gained any useful wisdom while or since having BC. Seems like every few months we have one of these sorts of kerfluffles, where I feel like we're all nice people, but talking past each other rather than communicating. Anyone for a deep breath, then start over? On three? One, two . . . Ann T. Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email "A. P. Thorsen" <apt77dontsendspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:d53o13 > Negativity & four bucks will get me a grande latte. Positivity leaves me > with the same beverage, perhaps but I'll be at least a bit happier as I > drink it. (Mmmm, latte!) Can you believe that I've never had one? Even though I was in Seattle when the boom began! Lots of people said that I'd be OK when I had bc, i.e. that I'd be cured, because I had a positive attitude. You can imagine how I responded to THAT word (cured) :-) My other response was that having a positive attitude never cured anyone but that it meant you enjoyed the rest of your life better. > Far from me to advocate pollyanna-fied stupidity here -- I'm a bit of a > cynic, myself Me too. > -- but who doubts one can draw lessons, character, insight or growth from > many apalling circumstances, and be benefitted in some way . . . even if > not benefitted on balance once the bad & good about the circumstances are > averaged then compared with total nirvana-esque perfection? I THINK I understand what you're saying <BG> And of course I agree with it. <daren't disagree with Ann ... > >> Then there's Ann Thorsen, another model here, > > OMG, Mary! You must leave my name out of this. I'm a former-stage-3, now > NED, who wants to get on with it & indulge myself in being as happy as I > can manage because life is too <bleep> short for any & all of us. Well, you might not like it but you're certainly an asset to the group as well as being at least partly my model. I Keep intending to do more physical stuff but never seem to get round to it ... But you've also hit the nail on the head. > The others you name face(d) the real lump-in-throat stuff -- as have Pat > from Apple Valley & so many others here -- and show(ed) exemplary grace [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > something -- certainly non-exemplary. And I'm enough of a coward that I'd > prefer not to find out. But in the meantime you give a lot to us. Whether you like it or not! >> I apologise to anyone I've omitted who might read this, I love you all >> and I've learned from and been inspired by you. I certainly don't know [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > This last sentence seems quite, -quite- doubtful. Well, who knows what else would have filled my life? It might have been worse than bc. It might have been something really good - although I can't think of anything which could improve my life. I have everything I need and don't want anything I don't need. I'm rich in experiences, what more could I want? > Frankly, since I care for so many of you on this group, this thread has > got me a bit bothered. If I were a cartoon character, I'd have great big [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > At the risk of getting all preachy: I feel like we're reacting more to > one another's words, than to the meaning each is trying to get across. Yes. I've been guilty of being sidetracked and I'm sorry about that. > I feel as if some find the title of Lenore's book so offensive that it's > impossible not to judge the book (and author) by the cover, er, title. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Anyone for a deep breath, then start over? On three? One, two . . . And you claim not to be a model??? Big hugs, Mary > Ann T. > Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email > In like circumstances, I'm sure I'd be useless, or hopeless, or > something -- certainly non-exemplary. And I'm enough of a coward that > I'd prefer not to find out. Catharine used to say things like that too. You'd deal with it if you had to. Exemplary people tend to be like swans: gliding serenely above the surface but paddling madly underneath. Tim I e-mailed the posts from this ng to Leonore, and she sent me this to post. (She doesn't do this kind of online posting, so this way works best for us.) (From Leonore Dvorkin) Dear Newsgroup people: I'm sorry if the title of my book, Why I'm Glad I Had Breast Cancer, bothers any of you. I never meant for it to be inflammatory. It is the surprising but absolute truth, and I could think of no other title to give my book. I am indeed glad that, almost seven years ago, I had this life-changing experience, for it left me happier, calmer, and much more appreciative of life in general and of all the kind and wonderful people with whom I am surrounded. Interestingly, it also wiped out my fear of aging. On May 5, I will turn 59, an age I admit to readily and embrace with great joy. Ever since my cancer, every birthday has felt like a gift. If you go to my Web site (www.dvorkin.com) , you can see a current picture of me, which David took in January of this year. You can also see the beautiful cover of my book. I took that photo in 1988 in Rhede, Germany, when I was there with a German study group. Everyone loves the peace that the photo radiates. It is also the perfect symbol for the path through "the woods" of cancer. To ty to address some specific comments: Of course I am aware, and say so more than once in the book, that many other women have far worse, harder experiences than I did (including my dear student Pam, to whom the book is dedicated) and that many women die horrible deaths from the disease. I am deeply, endlessly sorry for them and the loved ones they leave behind. But many more women survive. I have already heard from a large number of them that their reaction to breast cancer was just as positive as mine was, that they reaped very similar lessons and benefits. Our reactions seem to be similar to the reaction of anyone who survives a serious accident or other serious illness. You suffer and you fear and you cry "Why me?", but in the end, you learn and grow from the experience. I certainly did, and many people whom I know or know of did the same. Although I have had eight other major operations in my life, including a hysterectomy and five varicose vein operations, no negative physical experience ever had the emotional impact on me that breast cancer did. After my Aug. 11, 1998 mastectomy, it took me about four years until I could put into words all the surprising benefits that I had reaped. In fact I did first think of merely writing an essay and putting it on our Web site. It was after I started writing that the essay turned into a book. I self-published the book in chapbook form in 2003, but that version never sold at all well. The book was rejected by at least 40 editors and agents, which was a very discouraging process. Thus I was very glad when Wildside Press, the people who published my one novel (Apart from You), agreed to publish this book as well. I should have approached them much sooner than I did. The book is supposed to be published in mid-May. Please don't imagine that I am making or will make a lot of money from the book. Did you know that only about 5% of the writers in America can live from their writing? David (my husband) has had 17 books published, including three Star Trek novels, but all his life, he has had to work full time to pay the bills. In recent years, we have actually LOST money on our writing, due to spending more money on advertising than we are making from royalties. The fact is that, once this book is published, I will make all of $1 per softcover copy, and $2 per hardcover copy. All the rest goes to the publisher, the printer, the booksellers, etc. It is the very lucky few who make a lot of money from writing. Of course I hope to make SOME money, as I don't earn very much from my two modest businesses teaching languages and weight training, at which I work quite hard six days and several evenings a week. But I don't expect to get rich from this book. My main reward will be if I can help other women fear or resent the disease less. I do talk in the book about the physical parts of the process, how I discovered the cancer, my treatment, the pain I had, how my body was changed, etc. But my book is mainly philosophical. My main messages are about trying to accept one's fate, about absorbing valuable lessons from one's negative experiences in life, and then trying to look forward to the future with renewed hope, joy, appreciation, optimism, love for others, and gratitude for people's kindness. I hope the above will help the writers of comments about me and my book understand a little better the message and tone of the book. I ask all of you: Please read the book before you judge it! For to do otherwise would be as illogical as saying that you know you will hate a certain food before you ever taste it, or hate a certain city before you visit it. I will be very happy to have the reactions of any of you who read the book in its entirety. If you write me, you can expect a personal answer. If you like, you can read excerpts from the book now on our Web site. With best wishes to all of you for peace and good health, Leonore Dvorkin Denver, CO leonore@csd.net David Dvorkin david@dvorkin.com BUSINESS SECRETS FROM THE STARS: http://www.dvorkin.com/bizstars >My main reward will be if I can help other > women fear or resent the disease less. IMO, why should we have a need to fear or resent the disease less? It just may be that very "fear" and "resentment" which gives us the strength we need to combat it. >. But my book is mainly philosophical. My > main messages are about trying to accept [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > love for others, and gratitude for people's > kindness. I think your message has come about 2000 years too late. As for myself, I have a book which teaches the same message and just because I resent the title of your book does not mean I do not try to follow the precepts of my own special book. It's called "The Bible". What you refer to, is known in my book as "The Fruits of the Spirit". We can "hate" cancer and still be all the things you state in your post. This is just my opinion and I have appreciated your taking the time to try to clarify your book's title for those, like myself, who may find it offensive. Have a good evening. Bea >>My main reward will be if I can help other >> women fear or resent the disease less. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Bea (From Leonore) Thanks for your comments, Bea. I still invite you to read my book in its entirety before you judge it or me. Wishing you health and happiness -- Leonore Dvorkin David Dvorkin david@dvorkin.com BUSINESS SECRETS FROM THE STARS: http://www.dvorkin.com/bizstars >(From Leonore) > >Thanks for your comments, Bea. I still invite > you to read my book in its entirety before you > judge it or me. (From Bea) Sorry Leonore or David (whoever is writing), I don't have to read your book to understand what it contains. You are not the only one who has had to cope with bc and you are not the only one who has had to draw courage from it and go on with their life. Whatever gave you the idea I was "judging" you?? I made it clear it was not your story you wrote about which I found offensive but the "title" only. You could have titled the book "How BC Changed My Life" and told the same story but writers need a "come on" title to draw people to notice their books among all the thousands out there. So you got it noticed but you have to accept the fact that your title may keep many (like myself) from purchasing or reading your book. Have a nice day. Bea > Whatever gave you the idea I was "judging" you?? I made it clear it was > not your story you wrote about which I found offensive but the "title" [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > noticed but you have to accept the fact that your title may keep many > (like myself) from purchasing or reading your book. Many dittos Shirley K (Cancer survivor and also an author who has to find many a "hooker" title for her books) (From Leonore:) To repeat: I'm sorry if my title offends anyone. I did not choose it as a "hook." It was not any kind of cheap trick; it is merely the truth, and the only title I could think of that would say what I meant in a succinct way. Let me remind you that this is my personal story, no one else's. It is not any sort of treatise on breast cancer in general. As strange as it may seem to others, especially to those who have suffered a lot more than I have or who have lost loved ones to breast cancer (and I am very sorry for all of you!), I am indeed truly glad that I had breast cancer, as the experience left me a better, happier, calmer, more focused, more appreciative, and even a healthier person. Given all of that, how could I not be glad that I had cancer? By the way: Did any of you who have criticized my title actually go and read the readers' quotes and the excerpts from the book that are on my Web site? If you did not, then please don't jump to conclusions or condemn the book out of hand. Quite a few people have already read the book in its original, 2003 edition. I can assure all of you that I have gotten FAR more positive than negative feedback regarding it, even about the title, which many have described as terrific, intriguing, and inspirational. Only a very few have objected to it. If, after all I've said, your mind remains closed to my book and its many positive messages merely because one word in the title bothers you, then there is nothing more that I can do or say, except to assure you that you will be missing a book that others -- several of them cancer survivors -- have called, among other things, wonderful, beautiful, moving, uplifting, inspirational, unusual, powerful, frank, straightforward, honest, and important. I am happy and proud that I have been able to write a book which has affected others so deeply and positively. Leonore Dvorkin David Dvorkin david@dvorkin.com BUSINESS SECRETS FROM THE STARS: http://www.dvorkin.com/bizstars > > If, after all I've said, your mind remains closed to my book and its > many positive messages merely because one word in the title bothers [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Leonore Dvorkin Leonore, my feelings on the title is based on much my own personal baggage, first of all having breast cancer was one of the worst experiences in my life. I was never afraid of dying at the time of my mastectomy since it is rare for a person to die from a mastectomy itself, but the breast cancer that seeds in other parts of your body. Surgery for me even having a tram flap was not horrible ( And why didn't you have reconstruction considering your age?). It seems you didn't have chemotherapy...why that is a very grueling experience, especially for someone like me, who had school age children and continue nearly fulltime employment. I only saw one BC survivor who gave you a great comment leading me to believe that the title is fine for the general public but not for people who have lived or living through this experience. These groups traditionally don't like people peddling things they are selling and that maybe contributing to the feelings people are expressing You experiences unfortunately are not unique, If my local library buys your book, I will read it. Alex . >>>If, after all I've said, your mind remains closed to my book and its >> >>many positive messages merely because one word in the title bothers >>you, then there is nothing more that I can do or say, .... >>Leonore Dvorkin > Leonore, my feelings on the title is based on much my own personal baggage, > first of all having breast cancer was one of the worst experiences in my > life. .... > Surgery for me even having a tram > flap was not horrible ( And why didn't you have reconstruction considering > your age?). Y'know, it always surprises me to hear (read) things like this. "If you were young, you'd have wanted reconstruction" or "If you were single, you'd have wanted reconstruction" are things I've heard said. While I fully understand and support that many women feel strongly that they want reconstruction, why is a decision against reconstruction seemingly somehow suspect? I was 44 & single at diagnosis. I wanted a mastectomy. In fact, I wanted bilateral mastectomies even before the doc found a tumor in the other breast. I -never- wanted reconstruction, and the more I talk to others & think it over, the more strongly positive I feel about that decision. To me -- and I'm *not* implying that anyone else should feel this way, we're all different -- my breasts were an optional organ after being past the potential for nursing a baby, and I didn't want to go through more surgery (with other possible complications and side effects) for a result having only to do with appearance (for me). *Especially* after starting rowing seriously, I don't want to have anyone doing optional surgery that will affect pectorals (implants) or abdominals (tram flap) or back/shoulders (lat flap). If some potential dream-date rejects me for not having breasts, I didn't wanna date the jerk anyway. Heck, I was prepared to forgive him his baldness & love-handles (or whatever) if his mind & character looked good! Also, being unreconstructed makes it easier to detect local recurrence. I don't even have to have mammograms. Nothing there to squish. I know this isn't the right decision for everyone, but I wonder why it doesn't seem to some to be a rational decision at all? > It seems you didn't have chemotherapy...why that is a very > grueling experience, especially for someone like me, who had school age > children and continue nearly fulltime employment. I only saw one BC survivor > who gave you a great comment leading me to believe that the title is fine > for the general public but not for people who have lived or living through > this experience. Count 2 of us. I don't find the title particularly offensive. It does seem provocative and surprising, but not offensive. I'm not deeply interested in the book for other reasons (sorry, Lenore), but the title doesn't put me off. (I doubt I would've asserted "I'm glad" myself, though.) Personally, I am more bugged (admittedly still not very much so) by that early BC book titled something like "First You Cry". At least Lenore's title refers to why *she's* glad. Betty Rollin's book title seems to be telling *me* what I'm gonna do. Not! <grin> Yes, I had chemo (AC, Taxol, total of 6 months, sicker than most on AC, no children, but live alone, which presents some extra challenges, & worked full time -- except for limited sick days -- through treatment). > These groups traditionally don't like people peddling things they are > selling and that maybe contributing to the feelings people are expressing Yeah, that part's a little iffy, but I agree that Lenore's not likely to get rich on the proceeds. > You experiences unfortunately are not unique, If my local library buys your > book, I will read it. Alex That's good; I'd be interested in an independent book review by an impartial party <grin>! Ann T. Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email (From Leonore) Thanks so much for all the support, Ann T. It's much appreciated. Interesting statistics that David and I found tonight on the Web from Cornell University: More than 85% of women with breast cancer reach the 5-yr survival point. The current 10-year survival rate is 76%. And for women in whose bodies the cancer has not metastasized, the 5-year survival rate is a whopping 96%. Very encouraging! And of course those rates improve every year. Given that my book is about survival and personal growth thereafter, I think I'll have a large audience out there. I'm glad that you are happy to have decided against reconstruction, Ann. It sounds as though it was absolutely the right decision for you. And I could not agree with you more about not wanting any man who would not want you for lack of breasts! Thank goodness I've been married for 37 years to a wonderful man who was absolutely behind my decision in favor of a mastectomy, so I don't have to worry about dating anyone else. I absolutely agree with your dislike of the title of that other book, First You Cry. Personally, I don't remember crying at all, except when they were about to wheel me into surgery and I was saying goodbye to David, who was also crying, because we were not sure I would survive the surgery, due to my long history of circulatory problems. I've cried over lots of other things in my life, but not about having cancer. I was mainly relieved and happy to be *rid* of the cancer. You can expect some independent reviews of the book; Wildside is working on that. But actually, if you look at the readers' quotes I have on my Web site now, you can read two by people whom I have never met. Those are the women in Canada and Australia. And I do not know all of the other people all that well. They are mainly people whose literary judgment I trust, or who have weathered their own health ordeals. Several of them have had cancer. I was overwhelmed by the positiveness of their opinions and the eloquence of their words. You sound like a person who would fit right in with my weight training classes, which are populated by mostly upbeat, forward-looking, active middle-aged women, many of whom have survived serious problems of their own. (One neat lady is in her 70s. She also studies German literature with me.) The one man is 61, and he survived a triple bypass operation a few years ago -- which changed his life for the better, too. If you are ever in Denver and have a few hours to kill, I invite you to come by for a class. I teach Thursday evening and Sat. morning, and may soon add a Mon. evening class. (Teaching weight training used to be my full time job. Now I mainly tutor foreign languages.) Everybody loves my cheery basement and my shelf after shelf of equipment (all free weights). One of these days, I'll take a digital photo of the room to put on my Web site. That's all for now. Happy rowing to you! Leonore Dvorkin David Dvorkin david@dvorkin.com BUSINESS SECRETS FROM THE STARS: http://www.dvorkin.com/bizstars >> ( And why didn't you have reconstruction considering your age?). > > Y'know, it always surprises me to hear (read) things like this. "If you > were young, you'd have wanted reconstruction" or "If you were single, > you'd have wanted reconstruction" are things I've heard said. Me too. I could never understand that. In fact it's insulting. > While I fully understand and support that many women feel strongly that > they want reconstruction, why is a decision against reconstruction [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > breast. I -never- wanted reconstruction, and the more I talk to others & > think it over, the more strongly positive I feel about that decision. I wanted an all-off and only decided against it because of another circumstance. But I never thought about reconstruction and when it was mentioned by a friend I was horrified. It wasn't mentioned by the surgeon, I think he knew that I'd have said if I wanted one and what I'd have said if he suggested it! > To me -- and I'm *not* implying that anyone else should feel this way, > we're all different -- That's the most important thing to remember. > my breasts were an optional organ after being past the potential for > nursing a baby, and I didn't want to go through more surgery (with other > possible complications and side effects) for a result having only to do > with appearance (for me). Quite. I wanted to get it over and done with. I had fed five babies, some to more than 18 months, my breasts had been very functional and my husband liked them - still does (at 66) - but I didn't need them and I'm not one for cosmetic surgery. If I were I'd have been far more concerned about the dangly bits under my upper arms. I can't be bothered looking into having them off either. ... > If some potential dream-date rejects me for not having breasts, I didn't > wanna date the jerk anyway. LOL! And Hurrah! > Heck, I was prepared to forgive him his baldness & love-handles (or > whatever) if his mind & character looked good! The love of my life is bald, hairy everywhere else, short, bow-legged, not pretty (but no love handles or fat anywhere, the bastard!) but we've rubbed along for 45 years and love each other just as much now as we did when we were immature. > Also, being unreconstructed makes it easier to detect local recurrence. I > don't even have to have mammograms. Nothing there to squish. And believe me, that's a huge advantage when you have large, very tender breasts! > I know this isn't the right decision for everyone, but I wonder why it > doesn't seem to some to be a rational decision at all? I've no idea. >> It seems you didn't have chemotherapy...why that is a very grueling >> experience, especially for someone like me, who had school age children [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > doesn't put me off. (I doubt I would've asserted "I'm glad" myself, > though.) No, Ann,but we all have our own story to tell and how many would want to read, "I had Breast Cancer and now Row"? Or something pithier! Some would, not everyone. If I had had a mastectomy I'd have taken up serious longbow archery instead of just playing at it and could have written a book about being an Amazonian Archer - I'd have done it publicly in full kit ... :-) Some would find that offensive no doubt ... Would I care? > Personally, I am more bugged (admittedly still not very much so) by that > early BC book titled something like "First You Cry". At least Lenore's > title refers to why *she's* glad. Betty Rollin's book title seems to be > telling *me* what I'm gonna do. Not! <grin> I don't think I know that one. I do know that when I was first diagnosed there was a serialised book being read on radio every morning, written by a journalist or her sister. The patient had died. It wasn't encouraging for me and for all other newly diagnosed bc candidates. In fact I think that hearing that was the lowest point for me. Yes, it was moving, it was a tear jerker and that was the last thing I wanted to hear. >> These groups traditionally don't like people peddling things they are >> selling and that maybe contributing to the feelings people are expressing > > Yeah, that part's a little iffy, but I agree that Lenore's not likely to > get rich on the proceeds. Not only that, it was me who brought the attention of the group to it by enthusing, I did say at the time that I don't normally like that sort of thing. >> You experiences unfortunately are not unique, If my local library buys >> your book, I will read it. Alex > > That's good; I'd be interested in an independent book review by an > impartial party <grin>! Who could be impartial though? Who hasn't been touched by cancer? It's so very common ... Ann, you're a star! But you know I think that and I know you keep protesting but until someone else comes along to kick away your plinth you'll stay on it :-))))))))))) Mary (From Leonore) Thank you, Alex. And thank you for saying that you will read the book if it comes to your local library. I hope and expect that it will be in many libraries. The most recent Wildside catalog went to about 50,000 bookstores and libraries. If you want to tell your local library about the book, just give them my name, the title, and my Web site address, www.dvorkin.com Then they can look for themselves. I'm truly very sorry that you suffered so much, and hope that you will remain healthy hereafter. To answer some of your points: I was also afraid, of course -- of dying during surgery, due to my decades-long history of circulatory problems and due to my family history of heart attacks and strokes, and also of getting more cancer later. It was not until about four years after my mastectomy that I stopped being quite so afraid. It was then that I started my book. It's now been almost seven years since my mastectomy. Of course there is no guarantee that I will not get more cancer sometime in the future, but I'm hoping for the best. I chose a mastectomy, vs. just a lumpectomy, because that allowed me to avoid both chemo and radiation. From what I read about those, I was very afraid of both, and was quite glad to be able to avoid them. I would never consider reconstruction. Many implants fail eventually, leaving their hosts very ill. Also, they make any future breast cancer harder to detect. I would never want a sack of liquid encased in plastic sewn into my chest! I don't mind scars, given that I have over 100 of them on my legs, due to my five varicose vein surgeries. I am very happy with my beautiful and comfortable Amoena prosthesis, which I am scarcely aware of when it's on my body, inside a mastectomy bra. It is amazingly like my remaining breast. I'm not all that young; I'll be 59 on May 5. How I look is simply not all that important to me anymore, thank goodness. And all David cares about is whether or not I am alive and healthy. Besides, my chest looks totally normal clothed. Most of the time, I wear T-shirts, so things like bathing suits or low-cut dresses are not and never have been an issue for me. I don't like dressing up, and never did have any cleavage to display. Given how healthy I look, and how strong and active I am (I teach weight training classes, as well as foreign languages), most people are amazed when I tell them I had a mastectomy and eight other major operations in my life. Wonderful, I say! I don't feel mutilated, crippled, or depressed by my experience, and I'm glad if my present appearance shows the strength and energy and happiness that I now feel. RE the title once again: All all I can say is that my title obviously IS fine with a lot of other breast cancer survivors. One woman in Australia told me that the title was what made her buy the book. She told me that I should not even think of changing it. She did go through chemotherapy, by the way, and she's also glad that she went through the total experience. I was not the one who posted the notice about my book. David did that, thinking that some people there might find the book of use and help. We had no idea that his tiny little notice would open such a can of worms. But I'm also very glad for the supportive comments of Mary, one of your members. She and I are now happily corresponding on a more personal level. I feel as though I've found a new friend. It's a really lovely benefit from all this. I invite people on this newsgroup to look at my Web site and to read the excerpts if they are interested. If they are intrigued enough to order my book, then fine. If not, fine too. I'm not expecting everyone to like my book. As far as I know, there has never been any one book in the history of the world that absolutely everyone has enjoyed. All I did was write what I wanted and needed to write, and then worked very long and hard to get it published. My book is now finding a (mostly) appreciative audience, and that's wonderful. What author could ask for more? Thanks again for your comments and information. Peace and happiness and good health to you and all the others. Leonore Dvorkin David Dvorkin david@dvorkin.com BUSINESS SECRETS FROM THE STARS: http://www.dvorkin.com/bizstars > http://www.dvorkin.com/brcan > > David Dvorkin > david@dvorkin.com > BUSINESS SECRETS FROM THE STARS: http://www.dvorkin.com/bizstars I think the title of this book is incomplete, perhaps we should help the author by putting forward proposals as to how the second part should go. May I suggest... "Why I'm Glad I Had Breast Cancer and Lost 100 Points from my IQ" "Why I'm Glad I Had Breast Cancer and Jubilant I got Leprosy" "Why I'm Glad I Had Breast Cancer and Got the Chance to Sell my Rubbish Book on the Strength of it" You get the idea, any more contributions? María Now, María, where have you popped up from? Are you kin with -- ? Most of the people who've commented in this thead have made other contributions in the ng, I've been around since 1998 and haven't seen either of you before. Mary > Now, María, where have you popped up from? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Mary Why do you want to know? Who are you to ask? Do I not have a right to express my views here, even if they are rather sarcastic/caustic? I am not kin with "--" and the last time I posted on this ng was in January. Sorry you couldn't trace the post, but, hey. I'm not a frequent poster but I lurk and check out the ng almost every other day. It shd not surprise you that lurkers (or mainly lurkers) shd feel compelled to post when they see something on the newsgroup so idiotic it is offensive. María >Are you kin with -- ? >Most of the people who've commented in this > thead have made other contributions in the > ng, I've been around since 1998 and haven't > seen either of you before. >Mary Mary...I am sorry for the confusion but I can understand why you wonder who (--) is. Recently Webtv started making us give first and last names in order to post and I do not feel giving personal information on the internet is always to one's best interests. So....I decided to type in (--) as my first and last name never knowing that was how I would end up in the newsgroup. The joke was really on me. I have gone back and tried to rectify this on the Webtv signup page by giving "Bea" and leaving the last name (-). I will see how it turns out after I post this. I have no idea who "Maria" is but I have been posting to this group as "Bea" for quite some time and have gained much help from all of you which I appreciate. I have said all that I intend to say about the book and it's title. I agree with the other poster who basically said it is time to give it a rest and continue on with other more important issues. Bea "Bea -" <bsmp59@webtv.net> wrote in message news:11960-42777D63-144@storefull- > Mary...I am sorry for the confusion but I can understand why you wonder > who (--) is. Recently Webtv started making us give first and last names > in order to post and I do not feel giving personal information on the > internet is always to one's best interests. So....I decided to type in > (--) as my first and last name never knowing that was how I would end up > in the newsgroup. The joke was really on me. OK - I did wonder because I've seen 'Bea' here. > I have gone back and tried to rectify this on the Webtv signup page by > giving "Bea" and leaving the last name (-). I will see how it turns out > after I post this. I have no idea who "Maria" is but I have been > posting to this group as "Bea" for quite some time and have gained much > help from all of you which I appreciate. Most of us gain more than we give:-) Benefits come in surprising ways. And I'm pleased that you're you, if you know what I mean! Incidentally, I doubt that most of us who use our full names on Usenet have more problems than anyone else. I certainly haven't. A really determined person can get all your personal details from the 'hidden' information in your posts, allegedly. Mary > Incidentally, I doubt that most of us who use our full names on Usenet have > more problems than anyone else. I certainly haven't. A really determined > person can get all your personal details from the 'hidden' information in > your posts, allegedly. They can only find what you put in your browser (email address, organisation, reply address), the type of browser you used, and the name of the ISP or gateway (eg Google) you are posting through. There is a coded user id which the ISP can use to track abuse back to the individual user, and government agencies can also request this information (subject to national laws), but spammers generally can't. That's all, the rest is technical stuff about the post itself like time and date, and thread linkage. Tim >> Incidentally, I doubt that most of us who use our full names on Usenet >> have more problems than anyone else. I certainly haven't. A really [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > technical stuff about the post itself like time and date, and thread > linkage. Have things changed then? Two years ago several personal names and addresses were found by someone in another group (mostly American), to prove the point. Some of the 'subjects' names were real, some were noms de plume. I wouldn't know how to get anything from any post - as has been shown :-) But that's mostly because I don't want to and couldn't be bothered finding out how! I really don't care about people knowing any personal details about me and can't see how putting your real name to a post is a problem. Can you ? ;-) Mary "> I wouldn't know how to get anything from any post - as has been shown :-) > But that's mostly because I don't want to and couldn't be bothered finding > out how! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > hi I certainly haven't had any problems by putting full name on posts....and, like you don't care about pepes knowing things about me... have always been an open book... so to speak... By the way I finish chemo end of June and have been told that 4 wks radiation therapy to follow... Will it follow on straight after?, or do they say wait for a while... I forgot to ask and every one seems to have a different answer.... Do they do a full check-up after all treatment and, hopefully (everything crossed) give one the 'all clear' or otherwise? or just tell you to go away and live your life?...............Just wondered........ Pam xx >> hi > I certainly haven't had any problems by putting full name on > posts....and, like you don't care about pepes knowing things about me... > have always been an open book... so to speak... Perhaps they recognise that it's not adviseable to tangle with Yorkshire women ... :-) > By the way I finish > chemo end of June and have been told that 4 wks radiation therapy to > follow... Will it follow on straight after?, Ask. I would have thought there'd be a break but I think that different hopitals/consultants have different ideas about what's best. > or do they say wait for a > while... I forgot to ask and every one seems to have a different > answer.... Ask the consultant. Telephone or even write, Royal Mail should get a letter there and back in eight or nine weeks. Insist on a reply. It's your right to know. Don't you have a Breast Care Nurse? She should know, if she's not sure ask her to find out, it's important to you, your life has to be time-tabled. Of course there's always the problem of variable demands on resources but even so you should be given a rough date. Nag. Mention Two Jags. No, perhaps that's not the best idea ... > Do they do a full check-up after all treatment and, hopefully > (everything crossed) give one the 'all clear' or otherwise? Pam, you can NEVER be given the all clear - with any honesty. I'd be suspicious of anyone who said that to me. In fact I was angry with a doctor who said I was *cured* after five years. They won't come anywhere near that immediately after treatment. The best you can hope for is a good five year prognosis and that won't be until you've had examinations well after the radiotherapy. > or just tell you > to go away and live your life? They won't do that. You'll be monitored at least for the next five years. Don't worry, you'll be well cared for. Hugs, Mary |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.