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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / April 2005

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My wife was just diagnosed with breast cancer

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harry palmer - 06 Apr 2005 22:08 GMT
Hi there

I live in Chicago and my wife has just called me to tell me that the lump
in her breast is cancer and she is going to have a Lumpectomy as soon as
possible. I am very scared. I am reading as much as I can to prepare for
when she comes home and the next few weeks. If anyone has any advice I would
welcome it. Please don't expect a reply to every post, if any, I am feeling
a little under the weather at this time so bear with me. I'm looking for
anything I can say or do that will help not hinder. I just read "breast
cancer husband" an article at
http://www.prevention.com/article/0,5778,s1-1-93-43-4453-1,00.html  that has
helped a little. Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
A. P. Thorsen - 06 Apr 2005 22:45 GMT
>  I live in Chicago and my wife has just called me to tell me that the lump
> in her breast is cancer and she is going to have a Lumpectomy as soon as
> possible. I am very scared. I am reading as much as I can to prepare for
> when she comes home and the next few weeks. If anyone has any advice I would
> welcome it.

Welcome, Harry -- I'm sorry you have need to join us, but it's a great
group.

There are many web sites with good background info.  You can find some
links on this group's FAQ site (kindly hosted by ASCB's Tim Jackson) at:

http://www.cancersupporters.com/ascb.html

Look at the end of the "Frequently Asked Questions" page.

Another great resource is a book, "Dr. Susan Love's Breast Book", which
almost any decent-sized bookstore should have in stock, in its medical
area.  But it's written for us regular people, not for doctors.

I'm sure you're feeling a bit overwhelmed at this point, but as you do
have specific questions, you can ask here, too.  We don't substitute for
your doctors, who should be resource #1 for technical medical questions,
but we're good for experiential questions.  And this is a good place to
rant, or worry aloud, or otherwise vent the feelings that are bound to
happen at times like this.  Everyone here understands, and there are
others here who are spouses or caregivers.

Sending positive thoughts to you and your wife,

Ann T.
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Mary Fisher - 06 Apr 2005 23:14 GMT
> Sending positive thoughts to you and your wife,

Yes, and don't panic. You need to be calm and strong for her. And there's no
need to panic at this stage, if ever.

Mary
harry palmer - 07 Apr 2005 00:10 GMT
> > Sending positive thoughts to you and your wife,
>
> Yes, and don't panic. You need to be calm and strong for her. And there's no
> need to panic at this stage, if ever.
>
> Mary

I'll try not to Mary but it is difficult. Here's what I am suffering from
Acute Stress Reaction and can be handled thus

http://www.crufad.com/self_help/trauma-level2.htm

thanks for you guidance
harry palmer - 07 Apr 2005 00:09 GMT
Thanks Ann

for your kind words and advice. I am part way through the Dr. Love site and
it is excellent. I'm going to buy her book and "Breast cancer husband" by
Marc Silver, seems to be a good one. Here's some of his advice from an
interview he gave

a.. The No. 1 rule for the breast cancer husband is to shut up and listen.
a..
a.. No. 2: It's not about you; it's about your wife. So if the doctor's
making eye contact with you and not her, that's not the way it should be.
a..
a.. No. 3: Your wife is the boss. She may ask you what you think and you can
certainly tell her, but in the end, she must make the decisions that make
sense to her and her medical team.

a..
a.. No. 4: Sex doesn't have to take a holiday. Many men are afraid to
approach their wives sexually during treatment. But the loss of intimacy is
a huge loss. You have to respect your wife's mood, of course, maybe she just
wants a good cuddle or back rub, but don't pull away.

a.. No. 5: Take care of yourself, too. Caregivers need to have down time and
strength to carry on. Just ask your wife for permission before you go out
for a golf game.

        I'm going to try to pass on any information that I find maybe it
will help others. I am still in a daze BUT I have have a handle on the
problem, its called Acute Stress Reaction
http://www.crufad.com/self_help/trauma-level2.htm   now I have a name for
the beast I can deal with it. I am so glad I live in Chicago with all the
wonderful hospitals and support systems.

Thanks again for the support
Guess Who - 07 Apr 2005 00:29 GMT
>         I'm going to try to pass on any information that I find maybe it
> will help others. I am still in a daze BUT I have have a handle on the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Thanks again for the support

I think your reaction is normal. How is your wife taking this all? Can you
tell us about her?
More positive thoughts your way, Alex
harry palmer - 07 Apr 2005 00:33 GMT
> >         I'm going to try to pass on any information that I find maybe it
> > will help others. I am still in a daze BUT I have have a handle on the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> tell us about her?
> More positive thoughts your way, Alex

thanks alex

right now I'd prefer not to, as I said she just got diagnosed and I am
trying to come to grips with it. Later on maybe.

thanks for all the positive thoughts
Tim Jackson - 07 Apr 2005 09:17 GMT
> Thanks Ann
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> strength to carry on. Just ask your wife for permission before you go out
> for a golf game.

Those rules seem pretty good: no 5 is important and easily overlooked.
You can't look after anyone if you don't look after yourself first.  One
must distinguish between making time for yourself and running away from
the problems.  It is easy for the conscientious caregiver to get into
feeling guilt that the former might be seen as the latter.  On the other
hand, the more selfish type can easily use the former as an excuse for
the latter.  Only you know what your motives are.

What doesn't get a mention is talking to her about her issues, as and
when she needs it.  There will be times when she wants to deny cancer
and get on with life as normal.  And there will be times when she wants
to discuss the issues she sees, but finds it hard to find anyone
understanding to listen to her or make intelligent responses beyond the
usual sort of "positive thinking" platitudes.

Be aware that she has a lot of new information to assimilate, and will
probably need help with that.  If you can be a "fly on the wall" at her
consultations, two heads are much better than one when it comes to later
thinking about what the consultant said, what the implications are, and
what questions need to be asked next time.  Then you can also make sure
that all the questions raised actually do get asked and answered at the
next consultation.

As far as sex is concerned, I don't remember cancer treatment per se
having any particular impact on that.  Of course if she's feeling ill
she may not much feel like sex, and if she's feeling depressed she may
feel more need for it, but that's life as normal, nothing special about
cancer.

Rule 4 rather skirts around the real issue which is about body image.
She may fell that having her breast 'mutilated' makes her unattractive
as a woman, and you may find that the wounds and scars turn you off.
The first is dealt with by being demonstrative in showing that you still
find her attractive.  The second is a normal response, but will pass if
you persevere.

Signature

Tim Jackson

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eveline - 07 Apr 2005 00:26 GMT
> Hi there
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> http://www.prevention.com/article/0,5778,s1-1-93-43-4453-1,00.html  that has
> helped a little. Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hi back to you!

If you are scared, just imagine what your wife is feeling.  She will need
you to be strong and loving the next few weeks and months.  I hope you have
a storehouse of hugs and a strong shoulder for her to lean on.
My daughter was very upset learning she had cancer, and she needed a lot of
support, but did not get it from her new spouse.  He kept telling her she
was over reacting and should not feel the way she was feeling.
He neglected to get supplies in when she was having chemo.  Stayed away from
the house for long intervals to avoid her. So I don't advise that approach.
(They have since divorced.)
I tried to fill in as much as I could but was taking care of a spouse in the
last stage of Alzheimer disease .
So please give your wife all the support you can, with love and hugs in
abundence. Just be there for her.

my two cents worth.

eveline
harry palmer - 07 Apr 2005 00:36 GMT
> > Hi there
> >
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
> eveline

I'm going to be her 100% for her, we've been through thick and thin so far
and I'm not going to quit now. I have an unlimited supply of hugs and love.
Your daughter's "spouse" seems to be a real prat, we know how to deal with
them in Chicago, we have a really deep lake and many boats :-) Sorry to hear
about your spouse.
lisabucc@hotmail.com - 07 Apr 2005 13:17 GMT
Harry wrote:
>I live in Chicago and my wife has just called me to tell me that the lump
>in her breast is cancer and she is going to have a Lumpectomy as soon as
>possible. I am very scared.

Wecome, Harry.  I see that you've already gotten a great round of
"hullos" from others, all with wonderful suggestions.  I just wanted to
second (or third?) the invitation to post freely your questions,
concerns, and experiences.  We're a community with vast experiences
with this disease - among us we've probably been through just about
everything possible.  We're also very open; nothing offends and no
question is ever considered silly.

I hope that your wife has a smooth journey through her treatment.  From
your postings, I think that you'll do just fine as part of her support
system.

Take care.
...lisa
harry palmer - 07 Apr 2005 15:13 GMT
> Hi there
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> http://www.prevention.com/article/0,5778,s1-1-93-43-4453-1,00.html  that has
> helped a little. Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.

Thank you all for your observations and messages of support.

I have a question we went from mam/ultra to lumpectomy without a biopsy, is
this normal?

We have an appointment with a clinical associate professor of surgery at
the University of Chicago a week friday so we are making some progress.

I bought two books today, in fact I had someone MAKE Borders open up early
to get them. Dr. Susan Love's breast book ( for my wife ,  it looks too
complex for me) and Breast Cancer Husband by Mark Silva for me. Thank you
for steering me to these books they look really useful.
harry palmer - 07 Apr 2005 16:36 GMT
> > Hi there
> >
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> complex for me) and Breast Cancer Husband by Mark Silva for me. Thank you
> for steering me to these books they look really useful.

I got an answer to my question from our Doctor, it seems that the initial
visit is to determine what course of action to take next. Could be a biopsy
or an operation. Something I've learnt from the book ( husband) is to let my
wife make that decision with me taking a back seat or an advisory role. All
I can say is that I'll love her never mind what happens. Hope this will help
someone one day
Tim Jackson - 07 Apr 2005 17:09 GMT
>>I have a question we went from mam/ultra to lumpectomy without a biopsy,
>>is this normal?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> I can say is that I'll love her never mind what happens. Hope this will help
> someone one day

While you've answered your own question for your particular case, the
general answer is no it is not normal but it might be done sometimes
where a normal biopsy was for some reason impracticable, although it
would probably then be described as a surgical biopsy rather than a
lumpectomy.

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Tim Jackson

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sybil2 - 07 Apr 2005 20:41 GMT
(snip)
> >  Thank you all for your observations and messages of support.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Do you mean she hasn't even had a biopsy yet?  There can't be a
definitive cancer diagnosis without a tissue evaluation by a pathologist.
We've seen some pretty scary looking mammos and ultrasounds that did not
turn out to be cancer so I would hope both of you take a nice deep breath
and take this one step at a time.  Your wife is in my prayers.  Denise
>(I am a RN working for a breast specialist/surgeon)
harry palmer - 07 Apr 2005 22:00 GMT
> (snip)
> > >  Thank you all for your observations and messages of support.
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> and take this one step at a time.  Your wife is in my prayers.  Denise
> >(I am a RN working for a breast specialist/surgeon)

Nope no biopsy yet BUT we are both British so we expect the worst. Thank you
for the helpful advice and thinking about us in your prayers.
Mary Fisher - 07 Apr 2005 20:55 GMT
> I got an answer to my question from our Doctor, it seems that the initial
> visit is to determine what course of action to take next. Could be a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> help
> someone one day

You're sounding more relaxed, that's good, I'm pleased.

Keep it up - and stick around here. You've a journey to complete and friends
along the route are good.

Mary
harry palmer - 07 Apr 2005 22:07 GMT
> > I got an answer to my question from our Doctor, it seems that the initial
> > visit is to determine what course of action to take next. Could be a
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Mary

not relaxed by any means Mary, merely learning a little more each day. I'm
following the route we always do. Hit a problem, find out as much as is
necessary about it, find the best people possible to address it, and then
let the chips fall where they may. I am really happy I found this group and
I hope to contribute as much as I take, you are not finding me at my best.
J - 07 Apr 2005 19:16 GMT
Hi Harry and welcome to the group.  We're all here to help with
whatever there is.....let us know.
J - 07 Apr 2005 22:17 GMT
> Hi Harry and welcome to the group.  We're all here to help with
> whatever there is.....let us know.

Quit playing games with this newsgroup, "Burt".

To the orthers reading...
My NNTP-Posting-Host: is 209.239.5.155 - His starts with the number 66
I don't use Yahoo to post to newsgroups.
This turd (who is masquerading as me) does.

-------- Original Message --------
Path:
border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail

From: "J" <burglar_of_turds@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.support.cancer.breast
Subject: Re: My wife was just diagnosed with breast cancer
Date: 7 Apr 2005 11:16:04 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <1112897764.688435.283650@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <pdY4e.30380$hU7.18766@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.167.135.204
alex - 08 Apr 2005 00:11 GMT
J and Burt, what does this have to do with breast cancer?  For those of us
who care, we know who is who.

Harry, hoping your wife does not have breast cancer 80% of biopsies are not
cancer, although with the ultrasound with more information, it may point
that way.

How does the US healthcare system measure up compare to the British system.
Anyways good luck with you wife's appointment. Alex

>> Hi Harry and welcome to the group.  We're all here to help with
>> whatever there is.....let us know.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> References: <pdY4e.30380$hU7.18766@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.167.135.204
harry palmer - 08 Apr 2005 00:20 GMT
Hey Alex

    Thanks for the thoughts, fingers crossed. To answer your question as a
VERY PROUD American citizen of some 4 years, the US healthcare system beats
the crap out of the UK's IF you have decent medical insurance.  I think that
the skills of the people in the two systems are complementary BUT in the US
there are more of them despite the fact that there are about 300m US
citizens and about 60m UK subjects. I could have lived anywhere else in the
world but I picked the US when I was 7 and stuck with it. Hope this answers
your question.

Hp

> J and Burt, what does this have to do with breast cancer?  For those of us
> who care, we know who is who.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Path:

border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.glorb.com!postnews.goog
le.com!o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail

> > From: "J" <burglar_of_turds@yahoo.com>
> > Newsgroups: alt.support.cancer.breast
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> > References: <pdY4e.30380$hU7.18766@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>
> > NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.167.135.204
alex - 08 Apr 2005 12:37 GMT
Yes it does answer, I work as a RN in Boston and have a significant
international service where I work.  For these people money is not an
object, and yet they travel thousands of miles to come to Boston. I have
worked with British and Canadian physicians and they were all top notch, so
it must be the system in England that is the issue. I do agree that people
without insurance have a much more difficult time, but in my hospital we
give tons of free care but when you are sick and have no money you don't
want to go through the red tape.
Congrads on being a citizen! keep us informed on you and your wife, alex

> Hey Alex
>
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
>> > References: <pdY4e.30380$hU7.18766@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>
>> > NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.167.135.204
Mary Fisher - 08 Apr 2005 12:47 GMT
> Hey Alex
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> answers
> your question.

If you left UK all that time ago you're not really in a position to comment
on our system.

I've had brain surgery and follow-up, breast cancer surgery and treatment,
physiotherapy, and several children. Spouse has had a heart attack and an
unidentifiable neurological problem involving hospital stays and follow up
treatment and a hip replacement. We've both had dental and optical
treatment. We both take analgesics for arthritic pain for which we pay
nothing (for the pills that is!)

For all those things we've had speedy and extremely efficient diagnoses and
treatment and we've only had to pay a proportion of the cost of spectacles,
nothing else.

We have no complaints. We've not had to have insurance or worries about
whether it was good or bad or how to afford what we needed. If either of us
has a problem it's attended to within a couple of weeks at the most, for
instance two days ago I asked the GP about my hammer toes. He's referred me
to a podiatrist and I'll have surgery to correct the problem.

I don't think many countries' citizens can claim the same record.

Mary

> Hp
>
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>> > References: <pdY4e.30380$hU7.18766@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>
>> > NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.167.135.204
marilyn@utrillo.ac - 08 Apr 2005 14:55 GMT
> for
>instance two days ago I asked the GP about my hammer toes. He's referred me
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Mary

Crossing my fingers for you Mary that you can get this fixed before
next winter so you will be able to find boots that fit!

Marilyn
Mary Fisher - 08 Apr 2005 15:29 GMT
>> the GP ... referred me
>>to a podiatrist and I'll have surgery to correct the problem.
>
> Crossing my fingers for you Mary that you can get this fixed before
> next winter so you will be able to find boots that fit!

What I need is to be able to wear wellies on daughter's farm in snow and mud
:-(

Thanks!

Mary

> Marilyn
harry palmer - 08 Apr 2005 15:21 GMT
> > Hey Alex
> >
[quoted text clipped - 63 lines]
> >> > -------- Original Message --------
> >> > Path:

border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.glorb.com!postnews.goog
> > le.com!o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
> >> >
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> >> > References: <pdY4e.30380$hU7.18766@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>
> >> > NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.167.135.204

Sorry Mary I think I misled you. I chose to be an American at the age of 7
but left the UK for the last time in 1995. Also my mother just joined us
last year and she was a diabetic. Sometimes she had to wait months for
treatment that she gets here same day BUT we have to pay for it which is ok
by us. I am so sorry to read about all the problems that you had and I am
glad that you are spared the problems that we in the US have regarding
insurance. I agree that all the doctors that I saw in the UK were top notch
and could take the time with folks as it wasn't really considered a business
as it seems to be in the states. I apologise if I denegrated the national
health system and I wish you well.
Mary Fisher - 08 Apr 2005 15:43 GMT
> Sorry Mary I think I misled you. I chose to be an American at the age of 7
> but left the UK for the last time in 1995. Also my mother just joined us
> last year and she was a diabetic. Sometimes she had to wait months for
> treatment that she gets here same day

I have a daughter in law who is an insulin dependent diabetic, she was
diagnosed and has been injecting since she was 18 months old. She gets very
special treatment for eyes, circulation etc and even when pregnant has been
looked after appropriately. One of her sons is ten, he was diagnosed as
insulin dependent diabetic and the same applies to him.

Another son was in Australia last year when his 10 yo daughter became
acutely ill and diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. She was helicoptered to a
special children's hospital and stabilised. When son told the doctors that
they lived in England the doctor was very pleased and said she'd have first
class attention and treatment there, which has been true. All her needles,
testing and other kit are provided free, as are Edmund's and his mother's.

I imagine that your mother is a type 2 diabetic, it's quite common among
older people but it's treated seriously and I've never known any delays in
treatment which have been due to the medical profession. It's very easy for
patients to disregard danger signals and there might well be isolated
incidents of the treatment not being up to scratch but I suspect they're
exceptions.

Of course, if your mum had been prepared to pay here she wouldn't have had
to wait ...

> BUT we have to pay for it which is ok
> by us.

It's not OK for everyone in USA though. We've had stories about such cases
on this group.

> I am so sorry to read about all the problems that you had

We don't regard them as problems. Things happen, they're dealt with. We're
jolly pleased to have facilities we don't even know exist until we need
them.

> and I am
> glad that you are spared the problems that we in the US have regarding
> insurance. I agree that all the doctors that I saw in the UK were top
> notch

That's not the impression I've had from some of the things you say.

> and could take the time with folks as it wasn't really considered a
> business
> as it seems to be in the states. I apologise if I denegrated the national
> health system and I wish you well.

As I wish you and your wife, as I said from the first.

Mary
harry palmer - 08 Apr 2005 17:21 GMT
> > Sorry Mary I think I misled you. I chose to be an American at the age of 7
> > but left the UK for the last time in 1995. Also my mother just joined us
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
>
> Mary

Ok I seem to have upset up and I can read that we have better things to
attend to than this, let me leave this group on a high note saying that the
help you gave me was invaluable and I thank you all for that. Please keep up
the good work and rest assured that you definitely helped one person this
week.
A. P. Thorsen - 08 Apr 2005 17:40 GMT
>  Ok I seem to have upset up and I can read that we have better things to
> attend to than this, let me leave this group on a high note saying that the
> help you gave me was invaluable and I thank you all for that. Please keep up
> the good work and rest assured that you definitely helped one person this
> week.

Please don't leave, harry . . . and especially, please don't leave upset!

Every once in a while, in a group of very diverse individuals, we're
bound to have some differences of opinion.  Please don't take that
personally.   Though you started this thread, it's a group conversation,
not a series of pairwise ones.  If a thread loses interest for you, it's
OK to drop participating in that one, even if you began it (before it
wandered).

You're very welcome here, regardless of whether we agree or disagree
with you on specific points.  The breast cancer experience (as patients
or caregivers) is what binds us togetether, and overrides any other
differences.

As an aside:  I think perhaps we all have a level of nationalistic pride
about the positive side of our health care systems.  Also, I think they
are nearly always unclearly understood by those in other countries.

One tends to hear the horror stories about other countries' systems,
because people are more likely to talk to others when they're *un*happy
vs. satisfied, and because "those guys'" problems make exciting stories
for journalists who don't understand all the nuances.

In practice, there are pros & cons of the approaches most developed
countries use.  Of course <grin>, "our" system is best -- regardless of
which country "we" are!

Hope you'll stick with us, Harry!

Ann T.
Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email
Mary Fisher - 08 Apr 2005 19:39 GMT
>>  Ok I seem to have upset up and I can read that we have better things to
>> attend to than this, let me leave this group on a high note saying that
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> caregivers) is what binds us togetether, and overrides any other
> differences.

I agree.

> As an aside:  I think perhaps we all have a level of nationalistic pride
> about the positive side of our health care systems.  Also, I think they
> are nearly always unclearly understood by those in other countries.

I agree.

> One tends to hear the horror stories about other countries' systems,
> because people are more likely to talk to others when they're *un*happy
> vs. satisfied, and because "those guys'" problems make exciting stories
> for journalists who don't understand all the nuances.

I agree.

> In practice, there are pros & cons of the approaches most developed
> countries use.  Of course <grin>, "our" system is best -- regardless of
> which country "we" are!

I don't agree.

> Hope you'll stick with us, Harry!

I agree.

Mary
alex - 08 Apr 2005 16:04 GMT
Didn't want to start a controversy, but on these boards I often see the
American Health care system trashed.
I could list all the treatments my family has had with no cost to us. Also
we had the freedom to choose where we wanted treatment which is critical to
us.

My only experience with a National Health Care System was with my daughter,
she lived in Austraila for a sememster in school.
She was not allowed to get a visa until we paid a National Health care
insurance ( I believe it was over $500 for 3 months).
When she needed to see a doctor ( for a intestinal parasite) she was asked
for a credit card, which she provided we paided out of pocket. When she
sprained her ankle she went to the emerency room and was verbally harrased,
she was asked for cash up infront. Needless to say, I am not impressed. Alex
Tim Jackson - 08 Apr 2005 20:46 GMT
> Didn't want to start a controversy, but on these boards I often see the
> American Health care system trashed.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> sprained her ankle she went to the emerency room and was verbally harrased,
> she was asked for cash up infront. Needless to say, I am not impressed. Alex

I think Brits are currently a little sensitive about criticism of the
NHS for domestic reasons.  The system has been used somewhat as a
political football lately, especially with the upcoming general election
 and it seems to be in everyone's (politics, media) interest to
denigrate the system so as to show how much they could improve it.

So people who actually work in the NHS or have any real experience of it
tend to get defensive rather easily.

It -is- a one-size-fits-all system, so it will never provide the level
of service the better off can get in the US. There is a private service
available for those who wish to pay for faster or more comfortable
service. It -is- "free at the point of use", so no-one gets refused
treatment they clinically need.  I don't think anyone really disputes
that the quality of care is world class although of course it has its
faults.  And unlike some other European systems, it is nationally
affordable.

Those who have most cause to complain are probably those awaiting
low-urgency or elective surgery, for which there tend to be long queues.
 In the context of breast cancer, queues are not usually an issue.

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alex - 10 Apr 2005 23:36 GMT
Thanks for qualifying your answer, I don't know what would be the best
health care system, perhaps a blend of  the NHS and the American system? The
American system is always a political issue even when there isn't an
election.
I do realize the American system is flawed, but I haven't found one better.

Alex

PS How does the NHS handle cases like Teri Schiavo? I have been curious.
Tim Jackson - 11 Apr 2005 08:50 GMT
> PS How does the NHS handle cases like Teri Schiavo? I have been curious.
>  
Where there is a dispute between parties involved over life support,
here as there the courts decide, and as in that one, cases do
occasionally go to appeal.  That is how it should be.  What seems odd to
us about the Schaivo case is the involvement of politicians and
religious groups.

There was a lot of medical clap-trap talked in our media, but as far as
I could see it was just a dispute as to whether the patient had any
practical chance of recovery, and what wishes she might have expressed
for this eventuality.

People die under medical care every day, it is the normal way to go, and
most do not dispute whether they are dead or not, but a few teeter on
the edge of definition.  Really, if it's that close a call, in my
personal view one might as well toss a coin.

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A. P. Thorsen - 11 Apr 2005 00:58 GMT
> I think Brits are currently a little sensitive about criticism of the
> NHS for domestic reasons.  

Likewise here, but different specifics.  It's a political football here,
too.

> It -is- a one-size-fits-all system, so it will never provide the level
> of service the better off can get in the US.

And being a little sensitive <grin>, I'd quibble slightly at the
implication.  To be accurate, I'd have to read "the better off" as being
average working people.  Statistically speaking, typical Americans get
pretty good health care, and with manageable out-of-pocket cost.

Something like 85% of us have health insurance.  Some health insurance
covers virtually everything (from preventive care to catastrophic),
sometimes with a co-pay (often not very large).  But other health
insurance may cover only catastrophic costs, pay only a percentage
(e.g., 80%), or have other limitations.

There are compassionate programs of various types that help people who
don't have health insurance, though these are not universal and often
not well publicized.  Family/friend organized fundraising events (e.g.,
dances, concerts, etc.) are not unheard of for people with catastropic
costs.

Also, the uninsured have some tendency to be disproportionately in
groups that aren't heavy health care consumers (e.g., young adults), so
there's some economic behavior behind the figures, too.

It's far from perfect, but also not the apalling "everyone but the rich
go wanting" picture that I think sometimes may be painted.

If you're in the minority who can't afford care and can't get it, this
doesn't matter, of course . . . but I'd expect the pluses of the NHS
don't matter if you are in the minority who experience the minuses.

Ann T.
Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email
J - 08 Apr 2005 03:06 GMT
> J and Burt, what does this have to do with breast cancer?

Ask Burt, if you dare. His email is not munged.
Tim would understand since something similar happened to him on alt.support.cancer
http://tinyurl.com/6z5tl
2nd one down is Tim's clarification that 3rd post/thread down was not him.
I have the right to make same clarification here. (each time that Burt posts as "J")
J
alex - 08 Apr 2005 12:16 GMT
You made your point, I often see people post with the name "alex" it is a
common one, We can see the posters email address, and know who is, you made
your point, there are two "j's" . I know Whoever it is is trying to get your
goat and is doing this. Please no endless posts It's me , no it's not me,
etc, etc, etc.

A. report the person to the ISP
B. Move on life it too short!

I don't know if you can own the name "J" any more than I can own "alex".

>> J and Burt, what does this have to do with breast cancer?
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> posts as "J")
> J
Glenfiddich - 07 Apr 2005 19:21 GMT
> I live in Chicago and my wife has just called me to tell me that the lump
>in her breast is cancer and she is going to have a Lumpectomy as soon as
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>http://www.prevention.com/article/0,5778,s1-1-93-43-4453-1,00.html  that has
>helped a little. Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.

Our culture places a high value on outward appearances, and that will
inevitably have some effect on her.
As her husband, the obvious thing you can do is reassure her that
even if she lost her whole breast, it will not change how you feel
about her - any more than it would if she lost an ear in an accident.
This may seem obvious to you, but it won't hurt to tell it to her
very clearly and convincingly.

Also, she'll be scared, depressed and grouchy at times - you must
be understanding and supportive.

Read the rest of the ng for the many tips on what she may have to go
through, how chemo and radiation might affect her, so you will be
prepared for what you both face.

Oh, and do try to go with her for meetings with her doctors;
fighting BC should be a team effort.
If you have children or other close relatives, brief them on the
situation, too.
Pamela Cook - 07 Apr 2005 20:17 GMT
> > I live in Chicago and my wife has just called me to tell me that the lump
> >in her breast is cancer and she is going to have a Lumpectomy as soon as
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> >http://www.prevention.com/article/0,5778,s1-1-93-43-4453-1,00.html  that has
> >helped a little. Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.

hi harry,
      Sorry you've had to join the group.  but welcome to you and your
wife.... this group has been really helpful for me since being diagnosed
with bc....   What is your wifes name?   we will be hoping for the best for
her...
                            Pam xx
harry palmer - 07 Apr 2005 22:03 GMT
> > > I live in Chicago and my wife has just called me to tell me that the
> lump
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> her...
>                              Pam xx

thank you and I am really sorry to hear that Pam. I'd like to keep my
wife's name out of it for now, typing it in connection with this would be
too much for me. Thank you for your kind thoughts and we will be thinking
about you as well.
Mary Fisher - 07 Apr 2005 20:57 GMT
> Our culture places a high value on outward appearances, and that will
> inevitably have some effect on her.

It's NOT inevitable. Many of us have a realistic approach to life and choose
to be ourselves whether or not that co-incides with what others think.

Mary
harry palmer - 07 Apr 2005 22:04 GMT
> > Our culture places a high value on outward appearances, and that will
> > inevitably have some effect on her.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Mary

All I can say is that I could care less what she looks like just so long as
we are together. Hope that clears that up.

Hp
Brooke Mayne - 11 Apr 2005 14:44 GMT
it happended to my mom it was scary bt if caught early she will be ok
 
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