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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / October 2003

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Any common symptoms?

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Ipscabible - 27 Sep 2003 21:50 GMT
Hello there...I was just wondering if any of you could tell me of your
experiences as far as before you were diagnosed...What I'm specifically looking
for are any physical feelings or symptoms that you had before you were
diagnosed, that now looking back you can understand...i.e.: breast tenderness,
burning pain in one area that was constant...things like that...how did they
feel?

I had an irregular mammogram 4 months ago...went in for a core biopsy, but they
couldn't find a target area and an ultrasound showed nothing, as well...I'm due
for a follow up mamm in two months, and I am constantly wondering if any
pain/tenderness/burning is something growing...Did you know that something was
wrong by how your breasts felt?

Thanks for your help, Harriet
Mary K Farrell - 27 Sep 2003 22:32 GMT
Hi, Harriet:
   I didn't feel anything odd and had no idea there might be something
wrong. Oh, on occasion, I would feel nipple pain -- kind of like women do
when they're breast feeding and the little devils "bite" -- but, that was
mainly due to hormonal changes. When my cancer was discovered, I had found a
lump in my left breast and went to see a radiologist friend of ours. He did
a mammogram and found something unusual in the right breast. So he did an
ultrasound. Something about whatever he was seeing in the right breast made
him feel really uncomfortable, so he suggested *strongly* that I go see a
surgeon.
   I may not be the one to give you any advice. Tim is the best source for
advice (he's *my* guru!), but I don't think I'd let it worry you so much.
They couldn't find a target area on you and the ultrasound was negative --
well, it showed nothing, anyway --and you're due for a follow-up mammo in
two more months. Sounds like your physician is taking pretty good care of
you. Don't let yourself get stressed until you find out that there really
*is* something -- then you won't have time to get too stressed! :-) No
matter what, though, stay with this newsgroup. I've found a lot of very
helpful information and support here. Now it's an important part of my life.

Mary K.
> Hello there...I was just wondering if any of you could tell me of your
> experiences as far as before you were diagnosed...What I'm specifically looking
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Thanks for your help, Harriet
Tim Jackson - 27 Sep 2003 23:05 GMT
Most breast cancer patients don't feel anything at all, if there were more,
or more specific, symptoms then it would not be so hard to detect and
diagnose cancers.  Those cancers that are painful can give symptoms very
similar to other common complaints.  For example, my wife's doctor was
convinced that her generally sore and swollen breast was mastitis, and would
not believe that it could possibly be cancer.

'Irregular' mammograms are common, especially on the first mammogram, as
what they detect is calcification, the crystalline residues left where cells
have died.  As we age a certain amount of calcification occurs normally, and
it happens for example where there is any scar tissue.  Some 80% of them
turn out to have a perfectly benign explanation.  Cancers tend to leave
characteristic patterns of calcification, and it is this that the
radiologist looks for.  However it is like looking for a grey cat on a foggy
night, and if anything looks remotely suspicious (s)he will order further
investigation just to be sure.

Tim Jackson

> Hello there...I was just wondering if any of you could tell me of your
> experiences as far as before you were diagnosed...What I'm specifically looking
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Thanks for your help, Harriet
Ipscabible - 27 Sep 2003 23:57 GMT
Thank you Tim and Mary for your insights and responses...I am already paranoid
and a hypocondriac to begin with, so this has just exagerated it...lol...For
now, I guess I will just stop pushing and prying and kneeding my breast, and
maybe the pain will go away!  :-)  Thanks again...Harriet
Catharine Honeyman - 28 Sep 2003 03:36 GMT
> Hello there...I was just wondering if any of you could tell me of your
> experiences as far as before you were diagnosed...What I'm specifically
> looking for are any physical feelings or symptoms that you had before you
> were diagnosed, that now looking back you can understand...i.e.: breast
> tenderness, burning pain in one area that was constant...things like
> that...how did they feel?

I had no symptoms until one day in 1999 when I felt a large,
gravelly-feeling lump in my left breast.  It was a complete surprise and
didn't hurt at all.

Do I take it that with your charming e name you are familiar with the old
saying,  "Ishkabibble, I should worry?"  If so, are you of my tribe, and
should I be wishing you L' Shana Tovah now?

Signature

Aloha,
Catharine

titubant sed non decidunt wiblia

Harriet98 - 28 Sep 2003 17:26 GMT
ahoha catharine...lol...is THAT where i got it?  ipscabible was a nickname that
i used to call my kitty...i knew it came from somewhere, but i didn't know
where...i AM of your "tribe", so perhaps those MILLION years of hebrew school
sunk in...thank you for your response of your cancer experience...all the best,
harriet
Kaye301 - 29 Sep 2003 00:26 GMT
<<  ipscabible was a nickname that
i used to call my kitty... >>

My grandmother and also my mom used to call me 'ishkabibble' after they washed
my hair and it was all sticking up at the ends.  I thought it had to do with a
cartoon character.
L'shana Tovah to all!  Hope all who celebrated had a great New Year.  Ours was
low key.  My youngest, the only one who stayed in state to go to college came
home from the university she attends.  We all went to religious services.  This
morning, my husband and daughter went alone while I went for a 10 mile power
walk (in training for the Susan G. Komen 3-day walk).  We met at 6:15 and were
done a little after 10:00.  I got home in time to meet my husband--he dropped
my daughter off and I went back to services with him until the end.  
Emotionally, I found the services a bit tough--message conveyed that on New
Year's we are judged and on Yom Kippur our fate for the following year is
sealed.  I am not sure how much, if any of that I 'literally' believe but the
message alone was something I hadn't wanted to hear.  However, today, at
services I felt alot better about everything.  Maybe it was the walk this
morning (and last night -- my husband and I walked 7 miles) got the endorphins
going.
I am a bit punchy now from only 3.5 hours sleep--and probably should change or
add something to the subject title of this thread, but am not going to bother.
I only slept 3 hours 'cause I woke in severe pain in my leg and buttocks from
the synovial cyst or mass that's there.
I sure hope it's only a cyst but can't dismiss the idea that I have spinal
mets--especially now that my shoulder and upper arm have hurt daily since
August 7.      I had an x-raty which showed a 'bone spur' on my shoulder.  I
then had a PET scan which shows several areas of uptake--including the L4/L5
region of my spine.  It showed 'degenerative' changes in my shoulders--much
greater on the side that hurts.  However, the PET/CT scan, which was done at a
major university hospital was done by a fellow student.  He analyzed it (I'm
sure) and the head dr.'s reviewed it with him and then signed the report.  I
got the reprt. the next day.
Initially, I felt great about it all--until I read the clinical history.  It
stated 'patient MAY have lymphedema in her left arm.'  My reaction--WHOT!!!  I
have definate lymphedema in my RIGHT arm--had a custom sleeve on at the time of
the scan (wear sleeves 24/7--including custom Reid sleeve to sleep in at
night).  And, I had told him that I was experiencing pain in my LEFT shoulder
and LEFT upper arm at that time for one month--daily.  Remembering Tim's story
about how bone (or was it spinal?) mets were discovered after his wife had
moved furniture--has me wondering.
In my reading I found info about shoulder mets--18% of all with b.c. are
eventually dx'd with mets to the shoulder supposedly.  
Well, I am at extremely high risk for recurrence, so I wouldn't at all be
surprised.  However, I was very  concerned about the validity of the reported
results of the PET scan after I read the misinformation.
I called the facility and left a message.  I then wrote up my concerns and
requested re-analysis of the PET/CT scan based on corrected clinical info.  I
rec'd  a call from one of the head radiologists who apologized and offered to
look again at my scans.  He was willing to amend the clinical hx but said he
wasn't going to change the report.  He then offered me a free scan in 3 months.
I learned from dr. in medical school that they are not allowed to change the
report.  However, we paid for this evaluation out-of-pocket.   (OUCH!).  My
concern, if I send this to our HMO--we had asked for a PET scan from them and
even had a letter from a private dr. requesting it--and they refused.  If I
send them a report that was invalid--they are even less responsible if there
has been any neglect on their part.
I can't say I am any further disillusioned.  I guess I am at the point where I
am no longer surprised by things like this. As far as misinformation in a
clinical hx--well I have been reviewing students' records in education for ovr
25+ years.  I was very surprised when I noted inconsistencies in their medical
histories, initially, but as records became more complicated, I found it to be
more than norm than otherwise.  Sad...
However, when it's your own case--and nobody is listening to you--it is a bit
unnerving.  AACK.  The reason we decided to go ahead with the PET/CT scan, even
though we had to pay for it, was because of the daily arm/shoulder pain since
the beginning of August (which was first noted last October--but never written
in my chart).  
In the case of spinal mets (which I still hope is NOT happening) early
intervention is critical.  However, some of you may recall--that when I asked
my onc. previously how one differentiated bone mets from 'arthritic' activity,
he did not answer my ?.  Instead he said that it didn't matter in terms of long
term survival if one was treated for 3 years or if it were held off for a year
and they were treated for 2 years.  His response made me suspect that he
definately was aware of what was taking place.
Interestingly, I met a gal who was dx'd with stage IIIb b.c.  Her treatment was
6 cycles of TCH (Taxotere+Carboplatin+Herceptin).  Initially, she had to pay
for it.  Her HMO insurance didn't cover it because it is a new regimen that is
not yet considered standard.  However, she switched to a PPO provider and it
was then covered.  She is being treated by one of the top oncologists--one of
the developers of Herceptin--who initially said she'd get it for one year--when
she was on the HMO.  And, now with the PPO, she was told she'd be allowed to
have it for the rest of her life.
Now I understand where they were coming from when we went to this university
cancer center for a 2nd opinion.  The onc we saw said he didn't disagree with
the chemo regime that I was given through our non-profit HMO.  AT the same time
he said it wasn't necessarily the one he would have used. However, he would not
tell us what he would have given.  Frustrating...  In some situations there is
no way to get an honest 2nd opinion...sigh...
Tim Jackson - 29 Sep 2003 01:31 GMT
> Remembering Tim's story
> about how bone (or was it spinal?) mets were discovered after his wife had
> moved furniture

That was the eighth dorsal vertebra.  I remember it well.

> She is being treated by one of the top oncologists--one of
> the developers of Herceptin--who initially said she'd get it for one year--when
> she was on the HMO.  And, now with the PPO, she was told she'd be allowed to
> have it for the rest of her life.

I am pretty sure that when Herceptin first came out it was restricted to one
year because of concerns about the long term effect on the heart, quite
apart from its record-breaking cost.

Tim Jackson
Kaye301 - 29 Sep 2003 02:52 GMT
<< I am pretty sure that when Herceptin first came out it was restricted to one
year because of concerns about the long term effect on the heart, quite
apart from its record-breaking cost.

Could be, but the year I took it the cost for one year was around $66,000.00
(yep, that's sixty-six thousand)
Kaye301 - 28 Sep 2003 06:31 GMT
<< Did you know that something was
wrong by how your breasts felt?

Yes.  9 months after I had a supposed 'normal' mammogram I awoke the night
before/morning of my 50th birthday to a severe burning pain in my right breast.
The day after that last mammo, I felt a hardened area about the width of two
fingers.  I showed my ob-gyn a few weeks later and he flippantly reminded me
that my mammo had been normal).  Anyway, that burning sensation only lasted
that night.  A couple of days later that breast started aching--reminded me of
a mastitis infection that I had had 15 years earlier while nursing my youngest
child.  I thought I might even be pregnant.  10 days after that burning
sensation I noticed a change in my nipple.  I wasn't sure how it had
changed--just looked 'different.'  It was the middle of the week, and I was
leaving early for an out-of-town conference the following day.  I wasn't able
to see a dr. until the following Monday (5 days later).  During that time, my
nipple changed daily--it was sinking into the aereola).
I had a mammogram and saw the surgeon that Monday.  She biopsied the hardened
area that I had shown my ob-gyn 9 mos. earlier.  It was almost above my
breast--or at least at the toward the top of it--almost on my chest, not even
near the nipple.  
It was malignant.   I opted for a bilateral mastectomy because of a bad family
hx and because it was the type of breast cancer that is most likely to occur in
the opposite breast.  It turned out that I had 3 types of aggressive breast
cancer going on, including a rare presentation of inflammatory breast cancer, 9
positive nodes, and extensive lymphovascular invasion.
I don't mean to firghten you but recommend that they do further testing.  You
might want to ask about having an MRI or PET scan.  I also want to add that a
good friend of mind had pain in her breast.   She also had a biopsy and was
found to have a benign lump which was surgically removed and hasn't had any
difficulty since.
Harriet98 - 28 Sep 2003 17:37 GMT
thank you, kaye...i know how you feel about having drs. that give standard
answers to generic situations and expect you to just shake your head and do as
they say...and, lord help you if you challenge their opinion...i went for a
second opinion, and you might have thought i put a stake in their hearts...they
couldn't have been more uncooperative with me after that...

i am going for my follow up mammogram this month, and i think i will go get my
xrays and go to even ANOTHER radiologist for another set of eyes (not back to
the one who thinks he's god)...the pain that i feel does seem to come and go
with my monthly cycle or when i'm prodding (and i do have cystic breasts), so i
know that could be a good sign...also, there have been no changes in my breast
tissue or nipple at all...but, you can bet i am keeping CLOSE watch...

i will also have another follow up mamm in six months...a petscan or mri seems
like it would be a real hassle in getting approval, because there was no target
area for my core biopsy (and THAT was a HUGE fight getting that approved due to
the fact that i went with my second opinion dr. of having the biopsy done and
not my radiologist's who wanted me to wait six months) and nothing on the
ultrasound...i know the ultrasound isn't perfect, but it was a decent good
sign...

i'll ask for the pet/mri, though...thanks for your story and advise, and i hope
you are feeling well...take care, harriet
Kaye301 - 29 Sep 2003 02:57 GMT
Harriet wrote <<  i think i will go get my
xrays and go to even ANOTHER radiologist for another set of eyes (not back to
the one who thinks he's god).. >>

If there is any concern it is good to get a 2nd opinion--and possibly one at a
specialized breast center if at all possible.

<< a petscan or mri seems
like it would be a real hassle in getting approval, because there was no target
area for my core biopsy (and THAT was a HUGE fight getting that approved due to
the fact that i went with my second opinion dr. of having the biopsy done and
not my radiologist's who wanted me to wait six months) and nothing on the
ultrasound...i know the ultrasound isn't perfect, but it was a decent good
sign... >>

It is  a good sign that the ultrasound was normal.  Hopefully, there will be
nothing of further concern.  In my case, I had a very bad family hx for b.c.
and my ob-gyn knew that; yet, he downplayed my concerns and symptoms in the
direction of what the norm tends to be--which turned out to be a near-disaster
for me.
SssynSmrt - 29 Sep 2003 23:14 GMT
Harriet,

Was diagnosed with infiltrating ductal carcinoma.  The tumor was 1 cm.  I felt
absolutely nothing in that breast.

Periodically, I feel twinges in the left breast, but there's no cancer in that
breast

Sassy
Nieka225 - 05 Oct 2003 02:46 GMT
I was diagnosed Nov. 02, after a mammogram with an immediate follow-up
ultrasound that same afternoon.  I was totally stunned - didn't feel anything,
no pain, no burning, no nipple changes etc.  In fact, this was my first
mammogram after changing health plans and going to a new hospital/doctors etc.
When told I should go down the hall for the ultrasound, I thought a was getting
a bonus from my new health people!  Had no idea that they thought something was
wrong until the radiologist came in after the ultrasound and told me that 90%
of similar object were cancerous.  

I'm all in favor of mammograms now.

Judy S. in Shoreline, WA
 
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