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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / January 2005

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jensonfam@comcast.net - 27 Jan 2005 23:09 GMT
My sister goes into round two of A/C chemo. next Wednesday.  She is
still feeling nauseated and fatigued and is not looking forward to
starting all over again when she's still sick.  Any suggestions that
would help, so she could prepare more for next week?  Also, I've read
that Cytoxan is really hard on kidneys.  Really how much does she need
to worry about drinking?  Her dr. hasn't stressed it much, but it seems
like from what I've read she's suppose to be drinking a lot, and how do
you drink a lot when you feel so sick?
Any advice would be great and I'll pass it along!  Thanks!
BJ
A. P. Thorsen - 28 Jan 2005 01:33 GMT
Hi, BJ,

It's wonderful that you're such a concerned sibling!  (Makes me wish I
weren't an only child <grin>.)  See below for a few thoughts on your
questions, which I'm sorry to say may get a little lengthy.  I'm sorry;
 I just don't have a gift for concision!

> My sister goes into round two of A/C chemo. next Wednesday.  She is
> still feeling nauseated and fatigued and is not looking forward to
> starting all over again when she's still sick. Any suggestions that
> would help, so she could prepare more for next week?  

How big a problem has it been?  Is she able to keep things down after
chemo, or does she have a period of vomiting after chemo?  (Most women
don't seem to have the vomiting with today's anti-nausea drugs, but --
lucky me -- I did.)

For this reply, I'll assume she's just having the nausea, without
vomiting.

When I have nausea because of something like stomach flu, I've found it
most effective to hold off eating until my stomach settled.  The chemo
nausea was exactly the opposite -- I learned was that I needed to eat
and drink as soon after chemo as I could make myself do so (in my case,
as soon as I could keep things down).

(Note to anyone reading this who's about to go on AC:  I was *much*
*sicker* than most people are on AC; you probably will not have problems
with vomiting!)

So, I would start eating tiny amounts of the easiest-to-tolerate foods &
drinks.  Exactly what this is differs for everyone (so you have to
experiment a little).  What worked for me was to start with tiny sips
every few minutes of room temperature gingerale, maybe a teaspoon or two
every 10 minutes.  If that was OK, I'd progress to (in roughly this
order) lukewarm water, warm milk, small pieces of banana, saltine
crackers, a little oatmeal, mashed potatoes.  At first, I would eat just
a few bites every half hour to hour.

After the first couple of days, I could usually handle a reasonable
range of bland normal foods.  It still helped to eat small amounts, but
very frequently.  When I left home, I would carry plastic bags of
saltines & hard candy in my purse so I could have a small snack about
every hour, maybe just 1 cracker or piece of candy.

Also, after my first round of AC, I learned that there is something
called "anticipatory nausea" . . . if your initial round(s) of chemo
made you nauseated, you can start to feel nauseated again even before
the chemo.  It happened to me, somewhat, and I'm not usually very
suggestible.  I read a research study that said people were helped by
two things:  (1) deep breathing relaxation exercises, and (2) during
chemo, concentrating on visualizing the chemo attacking cancer cells and
killing them.  Silly as it sounds, I tried these things on the 2nd round
of chemo, and had fewer problems with anticipatory nausea thereafter.

Another personal strategy during chemo (not just for nausea, but I think
it helped with that psychologically, too) was to rent lots of comedy
movies on video and watch them, when I was feeling too sick to do much.
 It distracted me & helped keep my spirits up.

It also helped when friends made special efforts to make me nutritious
but mild foods to eat during early days of each chemo cycle.  One friend
made me a nice rich mashed-potato casserole, and an interesting ethnic
cream-of-wheat dessert with a grape-flavored sauce.

It's important to eat, especially protein as I understand it, to regain
strength and build back blood cells during the chemo cycle.  In that
way, eating will help fight the fatigue.  I was told not to eat raw,
unpeeled vegetables & fruit, however (because of the possibility of
bacterial residue).

For the fatigue, too, exercise truly does help, even though it's hard to
find the energy to do it.  Just a walk around the block, or something
like that, can be a start.

> Also, I've read
> that Cytoxan is really hard on kidneys.  Really how much does she need
> to worry about drinking?  Her dr. hasn't stressed it much, but it seems
> like from what I've read she's suppose to be drinking a lot, and how do
> you drink a lot when you feel so sick?

Yes, she should drink quite a lot, especially in the first couple of
days after chemo.  At least the regular "8 glasses a day" thing, or more
if possible.  Some experimentation with beverages may help identify what
sets in her stomach the best.  I found beverages at body temperature
more tolerable than cold ones, but others say cold is best for them.

If your sister can't keep water down (I couldn't, on my first couple AC
cycles, for up to 24 hours), she should talk to her doctor.  They ended
up giving me extra IV fluids with the AC, then having me come in the
next day for more IV fluids, which *really* helped.  It reduced not only
the initial nausea, but because it reduced the vomiting & helped me eat
sooner, it helped reduce fatigue, too.

I feel for your sister -- I have some idea what she's going through.
It's no darn fun.  Sometimes, I felt down and like I would never feel
strong or good again.  One thing that helped my spirits was hearing
about dragon boat racing teams for breast cancer survivors -- basically,
22 women paddling a giant canoe.  Since they could do that, I knew there
could be strength & health on the other side of BC treatment.

And there is, though I've found that in some ways, I've had to really
work to regain my strength.  Now about 4 and a half years after
treatment for locally advanced breast cancer (5 tumors in one breast,
largest 3.1 cm, 1 tumor in the other), I'm doing great.  I've found &
joined a rowing team for breast cancer survivors, and am probably
stronger than I've been in 20 years or more.

Keep up the good work in supporting your sister so sympathetically --
she may be too wrung out to let you know how much she appreciates it,
but I sure do know that support meant a lot to me.  It will be hard for
her to get through this, but many of us do so, and she will, too.  I
send her my best, & you, too.

Take care,

Ann T.
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BJ - 30 Jan 2005 06:26 GMT
Ann and Alex,   She had extreme nausea for a good five days and then it
started to lessen gradually.  She did vomit a little, but it was a few
days after her treatment.  She's doing much better now, and seems to be
semi back to normal.  Her doctor had given her some different drugs for
nausea.  I don't remember which ones, I just know that it wasn't kytril
or zofran(?).  I suggested those to her since I read from this group
that they had helped a lot of people.  She said her PA told her that
she can't have Kytril until during chemo, (maybe right before) but I'm
confused because I have read that many of these anti-nausea meds. need
to be taken before the treatment for them to work more effectively.  Do
you have any experience with it?  They did give her some samples of
Zofran to try next time.

Thanks for the encouragement.  I'm so glad that there are so many
people out there that have survived.  It gives me hope.  I need that.
My bother's wife passed away 8 mo. ago from liver cancer (after cancer
of the retna), and my mother years ago from lymphoma, so cancer is a
depressing word in my family.  I'm so glad that breast cancer seems to
be more "curable".  Maybe after all this I'll convince my sister to
join a rowing team.:)  Thanks so much for the support, and sorry it
took so long for me to reply.  I have 5 kids and times isn't always
abundant.  
Warm wishes,
BJ
Tim Jackson - 30 Jan 2005 11:36 GMT
> Ann and Alex,   She had extreme nausea for a good five days and then it
> started to lessen gradually.  She did vomit a little, but it was a few
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> you have any experience with it?  They did give her some samples of
> Zofran to try next time.

Kytril, Zofran and other serotonin blockers are best taken shortly prior
to chemotherapy, either orally or via the IV, with another dose usually
orally 12 hours later.  These drugs are only characterised for
prevention of nausea during the first 24 hours after chemotherapy,
starting later does not seem to be effective, even if nausea does
persist, and it is an expensive drug to be using where it isn't going to
work.

For longer term nausea, other drugs such as the dopamine blocker
metaclopromide (Reglan) tend to be used.  It does seem anecdotally that
if the initial nausea is effectively suppressed then there is less long
term effect too, but it's hard to be sure.

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A. P. Thorsen - 31 Jan 2005 17:05 GMT
> Ann and Alex,   She had extreme nausea for a good five days and then it
> started to lessen gradually.  She did vomit a little, but it was a few
> days after her treatment.  

In my opinion, if one does experience vomiting (or unusually severe
nausea short of vomiting), it's vitally important not to suffer in
silence.  Sometimes one has to be a bit assertive with the doctors,
chemo nurses, etc. -- make sure they know what's going on, that it's
distupting normal life, and ask what can be done about it.  Keep harping
politely on that theme until they

> She's doing much better now, and seems to be
> semi back to normal.

That's good!  The details vary by person, but the chemo cycles really
are a cycle that you can mostly predict after your first round:
Something like initial acute symptoms (nausea/vomiting) right after
chemo (or not), maybe some more symptoms and usually fatigue a week
(ish) after chemo when the blood counts bottom out, then improvement
until the cycle starts over, for example.

I learned to time my more strenuous things for the "up" part of the
cycle (right before next treatment) and avoid certain things during the
worst nausea (strong smells can be a trigger, for example).

Take care, and hang in there (both of you!),

Ann T.
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Guess Who - 28 Jan 2005 03:19 GMT
What did her doctor give her to prevent nausea, a change in medications can
make a difference, Give her a hug this isn't easy, Alex
> My sister goes into round two of A/C chemo. next Wednesday.  She is
> still feeling nauseated and fatigued and is not looking forward to
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Any advice would be great and I'll pass it along!  Thanks!
> BJ
 
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