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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / February 2005

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Pamela Cook - 21 Feb 2005 21:13 GMT
Hi, all
new to this group...was diagnosed last Dec...after having to go private
owing to the nhs unit being busy and my gp saying she didn't know when my
appt would come thru..Had surgery on nhs tho'...   have been advised to have
chemo every three weeks  for 6 months,  followed by radiation  5 times a
week for 4 weeks...to reduce the risk of re-occurence...surgeon was
confident he'd got all the tumour out...is this normal?    I am 53 and
pre-menopausal...have been told that I will need to go on tamoxofen for 5
years... but just read on this group about lupron... never heard of it
before...great to read these things... know nothing...   any info much
appreciated
                              Pam
Mary Fisher - 21 Feb 2005 21:45 GMT
> Hi, all
> new to this group...was diagnosed last Dec...after having to go private
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> appreciated
>                               Pam

Welcome, Pam! Where are you? I'm in Leeds, Yorkshire.

I'm very surprised that there was an implied delay for an NHS appointment,
there are national guidelines about this in the case of cancer.

As for whether any particular treatment is normal, I doubt that you'll get a
definite answer on this group. We're all different and our cancers are all
different, as are various clinics' approaches to them ... You have to trust
your medics, they know more than most of us.

For instance, I was 59 when I was diagnosed, had a lumpectomy and radiation
but no chemo (I was post menopausal). I don't know what drugs I took for
five years because it was part of a research programme.

I've never heard of lupron either and I've been round here since 1998.
What's more I just looked on the BNF site and it wasn't listed, I suspect
it's an American name.

You'll find that the majority of wonderful people in this ng are American
(there are other nationalities) and that trade names of drugs can be
confusing.

As for knowing nothing, most of us know exactly that when we first come
here. We learn as we go along. There might well be someone who can answer
your questions - especially Tim, he's a fellow Englishman who's made it his
business to know huge amounts about bc. In times to come you might well be
one of the ones who can help other newbies.

So don't go away, your questions might be answered by others. We like to
know how you go on.

Hugs,

Mary
Pamela Cook - 21 Feb 2005 22:08 GMT
> ">
> Welcome, Pam! Where are you? I'm in Leeds, Yorkshire.
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> >
> > Hi mary.  thanks for taking the time to reply.. I am in N. Lincs...
but was refered to hull...GP said I should be seen within two weeks, but got
in privately same day!   surgeon gave me the choice after examination,  of
waiting  or paying for mammagram and ultra-sound, which I did...   lump
showed up, and I was again given the choice of waiting for NHS core biopsy
or having it done there and then,  results in 10 days,  Did that,   Not in
any scheme  so surgeon then transferred me to NHS  for op... no difference
waiting time....cannot fault the care I have received....  Very friendly,
and try to involve me with the treatment choices  also listen to my (what
must seem silly) questions  and try to answer in plain English.  Going
tomorrow to find out when chemo is to start...  will ask about Lupron....
                                                   glad to hear a success
story... every-one keen to tell horror ones about people they know..  Thanks
again    .......Pam  xx
Mary Fisher - 21 Feb 2005 22:35 GMT
>> > Hi mary.  thanks for taking the time to reply.. I am in N. Lincs...
> but was refered to hull...GP said I should be seen within two weeks,

Oh! I got the impression you were going to have to wait for weeks or months!
Two weeks is normal.

> but got
> in privately same day!   surgeon gave me the choice after examination,  of
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>                                                    glad to hear a success
> story... every-one keen to tell horror ones about people they know..

Oh yes ... but there are lots and lots of survivors around! there are people
here who ... well, I'll let them tell their own stories!

Mary
Tim Jackson - 22 Feb 2005 10:30 GMT
> I've never heard of lupron either and I've been round here since 1998.
> What's more I just looked on the BNF site and it wasn't listed, I suspect
> it's an American name.

Lupron is indeed a US product.  It's generic name is Leuprolide Acetate,
and it doesn't seem to be on the British National Formulary.  There is a
website offering to supply it to UK customers from Mexico (but of course
I wouldn't recommend doing that at all).

Gosrelin (Zoladex) is on the BNF.

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Dorothy Roper - 21 Feb 2005 23:27 GMT
Pam -

I was diagnosed almost eight years ago.  I had MRM followed by chemo and
then I was on tamoxifen for five years.  Everyone is a little different but
you can try and check around and see "what others are doing".  There are
some web sites but I have them bookmarked on AOL and don't know how to get
them over here so you can see.  Anyway, you might google and find
information about this.  Sounds like your doctor is pretty up to speed on
what to do though.  There is a lot of information at the MD Anderson web
site if you don't find it anywhere else.  You can ask him about lupron.

Dorothy
> Hi, all
>  new to this group...was diagnosed last Dec...after having to go private
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> appreciated
>                                Pam
marilyn@historica.ac - 21 Feb 2005 23:30 GMT
>Hi, all
> new to this group...was diagnosed last Dec...after having to go private
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>week for 4 weeks...to reduce the risk of re-occurence...surgeon was
>confident he'd got all the tumour out...is this normal?  

Hi Pam,

I had a lump removed two years ago. I had six months of chemo
scheduled but had to wait an extra week between chemos due to low
white blood cell counts, and then had 16 radiation treatments.
Surgeon was also confident he got all the tumor out, and the chemo was
just a precation.  I'm fine now, and hoping he was right. (g)

I was post-menopausal and am taking a different medication.

Welcome to the group.

Marilyn  

>  I am 53 and
>pre-menopausal...have been told that I will need to go on tamoxofen for 5
>years... but just read on this group about lupron... never heard of it
>before...great to read these things... know nothing...   any info much
>appreciated
>                               Pam
Dorothy Roper - 21 Feb 2005 23:54 GMT
> Hi, all
>  new to this group...was diagnosed last Dec...after having to go private
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> appreciated
>                                Pam
Sandstone - 22 Feb 2005 01:14 GMT
> Hi, all
>  new to this group...was diagnosed last Dec...after having to go private
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> appreciated
>                                Pam

Lupron has run its patent length and there is now a generic version of Lupron
called Eligard. Both Lupron and Eligard are Leuprolide Acetate. Generic drugs
are cheaper so if price is a consideration for you then you might ask your doc
if Eligard is OK. Don't know what Lupron and Eligard are called outside the US.
C. Falise - 22 Feb 2005 18:34 GMT
> Hi, all
>  new to this group...was diagnosed last Dec...after having to go private
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> appreciated
>                                Pam

hi pam-
i'm sorry to have to welcome you here, but this is a great group.  very
knowledgable and supportive crew here...
i'm in usa, so am unfamiliar with nhs - actually i wish we had a system here
for our citizens, but that's another subject.
it sounds like your doc is being very thorough.  when cancer is found in
pre-menopausal women (i'm one of them - i'm just 39 a few months ago), they
are more aggressive with treatment for two reasons - first you are fairly
young.  second, when bc is diagnosed pre-menopause, it CAN be a more
aggressive form warranting more aggressive treatment.
many breast cancers in pre-menopausal women are dependent upon the presence
of estrogen to grow.  your pathology report should indicate whether your
cancer is ER (estrogen) or PR (progesterone) positive.
tamoxifen is a drug that prevents the breast tissue and hormone-dependent
cancer cells from being able to feed off of the estrogen in our bodies.
lupron, which i used to take (i now take the longer-acting form called
zoladex) actually puts a woman into menopause chemically by suppressing
ovary function so that there is less estrogen in the body to start with.  in
addition, i take an aromitase inhibitor called femara which sort of "mops
up" for lack of a better description, excess estrogen that is created in
other parts of the body, i.e. adrenal glands and muscles to name a few.
it's a two-pronged attack on estrogen that has worked for me for a year and
a half so far, thank god.  but i have widespread metastatic disease that is
estrogen and progesterone dependent, so i need to have as close to zero
estogen in all parts of my body.  it would seem to me that in your case with
the cancer removed and no spread of disease, that tamoxifen may be enough to
prevent recurrence.
ask your docs - that's what they are there for.  it sounds like you are in
good hands.  try not to worry too much.  as someone else posted, all of our
cancers are different and are treated differently.  just because one woman
is getting one kind of treatment, it doesn't mean it is for all of us.
good luck, and hang in there.  take care of yourself during and after
treatment.  eat as well as you can and drink plenty of water.  life goes on
even with cancer treatment - all these women here can attest to that.
:)
-christina
Pamela Cook - 22 Feb 2005 19:36 GMT
 Thank you all for your replies... they are all very informative..and
re-assuring... I have been to the hospital today and start my chemo in a
fortnights time ( away with a friend for a few days to chill next week).. my
cancer was estrogen related, but being 53 yrs old they say i will soon be in
the menopause naturally, and the tamoxofen will hurry it along....I hope so
Any-one know of any thing i can do naturally to reduce the amount of
estrogen in my body?
  Good vibes to you all,  Thanks again
                                pam  xx
C. Falise - 22 Feb 2005 20:13 GMT
>   Thank you all for your replies... they are all very informative..and
> re-assuring... I have been to the hospital today and start my chemo in a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>    Good vibes to you all,  Thanks again
>                                  pam  xx

pam-
try to avoid alcohol and any soy products.  also stay away from anything
containing black cohosh.  unfortunately most of the remedies to help with
menopause contain substances that can break down into an estrogen-like
substance.
when the hot flahses come, use a fan.  it's irreplaceable.
:)
-christina
Pamela Cook - 22 Feb 2005 20:44 GMT
>> pam-
> try to avoid alcohol and any soy products.  also stay away from anything
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> >
> >eek!!!   i've gone dairy-free, and have been using soya milk..read a book
called 'Your life in  your hands'   and the author was suffering from bc....
she said that the women in the far east don't get bc at the levels western
women do...and the main difference  she could think of was that eastern
people don't use dairy products.. they use soya, must say it seemed to make
sense...but then i suppose anything can be made to make sense. stopped
taking anything with cohosh in as soon as I found lump...hospital said there
has been  no research into other remedies and to do what I felt happy to,
but what you say makes sense> The author said her cancer started to reduce
as soon as she went dairy-free... I didn't take it all too literally, but
felt it was something positive that I could do...help!!!!
                                Pam xx
Mary Fisher - 22 Feb 2005 22:29 GMT
>>> pam-
>> try to avoid alcohol and any soy products.  also stay away from anything
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> felt it was something positive that I could do...help!!!!
>                                 Pam xx

Pam, lots of books have been written giving the answer. From now on you'll
see lots of adverts for all sorts of 'remedies' and even 'cures'. Round here
we call them snake oil.

I'm not saying that nothing has any value but one person's experiences, even
if they're accurate, don't necessarily mean that they'll work for everyone.

Just as with the soya example, there are pros and cons - and very little
peer reviewed proofs of efficacy. If there were your doctors would be
advising you accordingly.

You have cancer. We have cancer. We all have to live with it. None of us can
say we've been cured until we die of something else.

That doesn't mean that life isn't worth living, on the contrary, we who have
eyeballed the grim reaper have more reason to enjoy life than most others
:-) I've done it three times (only once with cancer) and believe me I love
every second of life! I think most of us on this group do too.

If you keep reading posts you'll learn about the different stages and
attitudes we all have, the different personalities around. I wouldn't be
without this group :-)

Apart from Susan Love's Breast Book (which you should borrow or buy, it's
not expensive) the group is the Best Thing I've had since my bc was
diagnosed. Use no other!!!! And don't worry.

I was given a good five year prognosis. Or it might have been ten years, I
can't remember. But it didn't include buses and I cross a bus route several
times a week :-)

Hugs,

Mary
Tim Jackson - 23 Feb 2005 01:18 GMT
> eek!!!   i've gone dairy-free, and have been using soya milk..read a book
> called 'Your life in  your hands'   and the author was suffering from bc....
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> felt it was something positive that I could do...help!!!!
>                                  Pam xx

Whether or not substituting soy for dairy helps prevent cancers, it is
thought that the estrogen-like substances in soy may promote breast
cancer once it is present, at least if the soy is taken in large quantities.

I don't think the author of the book is very imaginative if that is the
only difference between east and west that she can imagine.  It may not
be politically correct to consider racial genetic differences, or
differences in obesity, (for a couple of examples) but they still exist.
 As far as I know even the ability to digest milk as an adult is a
recent mutation mainly found in people of European origin.

So I wouldn't take that theory terribly seriously.  Testimonials don't
constitute evidence, statistically.

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Mary Fisher - 22 Feb 2005 20:21 GMT
>  Thank you all for your replies... they are all very informative..and
> re-assuring... I have been to the hospital today and start my chemo in a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Any-one know of any thing i can do naturally to reduce the amount of
> estrogen in my body?

No.

And I wouldn't want to :-)

I've not heard of tamoxifen hurrying menopause along, but I don't know
everything.

About ANYthing :-)

Mary
A. P. Thorsen - 23 Feb 2005 17:55 GMT
> Any-one know of any thing i can do naturally to reduce the amount of
> estrogen in my body?

At the risk of offence or controversy:  Since some non-ovarian estrogen
comes from fat cells, weight loss may be helpful in reducing circulating
estrogen *if* one is overweight (. . . like I am <grin>).  However, most
doctors will discourage weight loss during chemo, so that can wait until
after.   I think someone here (Kaye, maybe?) exercised a lot between
diagnosis & treatment, so lost a bunch of weight before starting chemo.

Ann T.
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Mary Fisher - 23 Feb 2005 20:33 GMT
>> Any-one know of any thing i can do naturally to reduce the amount of
>> estrogen in my body?
>
> At the risk of offence or controversy:  Since some non-ovarian estrogen
> comes from fat cells, weight loss may be helpful in reducing circulating
> estrogen *if* one is overweight (. . . like I am <grin>).

I know :-(

But I don't take offence and don't find it controversial. I'm fat. I've
always been fat. I don't want to be fat.

Life's a bitch.

Mary
A. P. Thorsen - 23 Feb 2005 17:51 GMT
> Hi, all
>  new to this group...was diagnosed last Dec...after having to go private
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> before...great to read these things... know nothing...   any info much
> appreciated

Hi, Pam,

Welcome to the group -- sorry you had to join us, but glad to have you
here!

If you decide to do the chemo, you may find -- as many of us do -- that
that will bring on early menopause.  Statistically, such is often the
case with those diagnosed past age 40.  Most experience cessation of
periods during the chemo at that age, and for many at our age, they
never start up again.  Happened for me, after being diagnosed at 45.

If that's the case, Lupron is irrelevant, and one may be prescribed an
aromatase inhibitor (such as Arimidex or Femara) instead of Tamoxifen.

Your treatment plan sounds a lot like mine was, so if you have
questions, please ask.

Best wishes to you,

Ann T.
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