Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / November 2004
Hip bone pain
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Jayashree Iyer - 02 Nov 2004 20:25 GMT Hello all, I probably know the answer to this one; but anyway, my mom had been having pain in the hip for the past two weeks or so. She said it started when she tried lifting some weights in the gym with her feet which were too heavy; and she felt a sudden pain in her lower back or hip. She went to our family doctor, who recommended some pain killers. The pain was bearable for two weeks after that; though it didnt disappear completely; but for the past two days or so, it has suddenly increased, she said. She went back to the doc, who recommended an X-ray. The x-ray came out clear; so now the doc said perhaps it may be because of weak bones due to calcium deficiency or something. She asked him if it might be mets to the bone; and if a bone scan was required; and he said no, because the xray looked really clear. She refuses to visit our oncologist (i think it scares her, as it does me)and it will take me quite a bit of pestering to ask her to go. So my question really is, is the doctor right? is an Xray enough at this point; and does a clear xray indicate that Im just being my usual paranoid self?
To give a background again, My mom finished her treatment for stage 3 bc last November. Please let me know what everyone thinks. You people are the only ones I can ask advice from; I know everyone here would understand what I am going through. Thanks. Jayashree.
C. Falise - 02 Nov 2004 20:58 GMT hi- not sure if i can help here - but i'll try. i've had it go both ways on x-rays. for a year before my diagnosis i had been cracking ribs. at one point i went to a doc (walk-in clinic - have no health ins.) and he xrayed the rib. said it was a minor fracture and that perhaps i had osteoporosis. i'm only 38 - was 36 at that time. so, it seems that the bone mets that were causing the fracture did not show up on simple x-ray. about six months ago, i was having problems with my shoulder. turns out i have mets there too. i had just had bone scan a couple of months earlier that showed the mets, and onc said we could xray it to see if things had progressed (trying to save money by not having another bone scan done). it seems that they could identify the mets on that xray, but perhaps because they already knew what they were looking at. i hope it turns out to be just a strained ligament or something. it does concern me that the pain has not gone away yet, and has in fact gotten worse. it was bad hip pain that finally got me to my diagnosis last october. question - how old is mom? could it be osteoporosis? it often affects hips first. maybe a bone-density test would be a good idea. given your mom's situation, she should consult with her oncologist if she has not done so already. it can be frightening, but IMHO knowing is always better than wondering. either way... good luck. we'll be here for ya regardless.
:) -christina
> Hello all, > I probably know the answer to this one; but anyway, [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Thanks. > Jayashree. A. P. Thorsen - 03 Nov 2004 00:07 GMT > Hello all, > I probably know the answer to this one; but anyway, > my mom had been having pain in the hip for the past two weeks or so. > She said it started when she tried lifting some weights in the gym > with her feet which were too heavy; and she felt a sudden pain in her > lower back or hip. ....
> She refuses to visit our oncologist (i think it scares her, as it does > me)and it will take me quite a bit of pestering to ask her to go. > So my question really is, is the doctor right? is an Xray enough at > this point; and does a clear xray indicate that Im just being my usual > paranoid self? If the doctor is saying things look good on an X-ray, it seems like that would tend to rule out a fracture. If it's not a fracture, and onset was sudden, mets don't seem exceedingly likely. Have you/she considered a massage therapist, an Osteopathic physician who specializes in manipulation, or a chiropractor?
I've had several scares over back, hip, leg, etc., pain. I've had bone scans & X-rays. So far, it's consistently turned out to be musculo-skeletal stuff, and I've gotten the best relief from my D.O., massage therapist, and self-treatment (consistent easy stretching, heat & ice at appropriate times, etc.).
Hope it turns out to be something similarly minor!
Ann T. Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email
C. Falise - 03 Nov 2004 00:21 GMT > If the doctor is saying things look good on an X-ray, it seems like that > would tend to rule out a fracture. If it's not a fracture, and onset [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Ann T. > Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email not to frighten the op, but when my hip went, it went overnight. i simply woke up one morning and could not put weight on that leg. i had no fracture of the hip. just pain. more than likely it is something else, esp since xrays are clear and more importantly it happenned during physical workout... just thought i'd relate my experience with it. hope all goes well. -c.
Sandy L - 03 Nov 2004 03:22 GMT > Hello all, > I probably know the answer to this one; but anyway, [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Thanks. > Jayashree. I would join the chorus with Ann. Common diseases remain common even in patients who have or have had breast cancer. Hip joint pain is not all that common and is usually referred to the groin, not the buttocks. Pain in the back and buttock suggests a low back strain, perhaps with some jamming of the facet joints between vertebrae, with a lower probability of a ruptured disc. That is very common in all kinds of people and does not suggest metastatic disease very strongly at all. With the negative x-rays, a combination of medical and chiropractic management is probably optimal the medical side would consist of: (1) anti-inflammatory medicines, which should be taken on a fixed schedule, not just when the pain gets bad, (2) muscle relaxers, which are not very effective by themselves but add enough to the anti-inflammatories to make them worth trying, and maybe (3) pain medicines (opiates) if the pain is severe. The best chiropractors use a variety of therapeutic modalities, not just manipulation.
Mary Fisher - 03 Nov 2004 10:47 GMT > I would join the chorus with Ann. So would I.
Earlier this year I had a bone scan becuase I was worried that my hip pain might be caused by mets. It's important for your mum to be examined, the fear won't go away if she isn't and if the cause is found it can be treated.
> Common diseases remain common even in patients who have or have had breast > cancer. Hip joint pain is not all that common and is usually referred to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > common in all kinds of people and does not suggest metastatic disease very > strongly at all. I have both osteo arthritis in my hips and some lower back problem.
> With the negative x-rays, a combination of medical and chiropractic > management is probably optimal the medical side would consist of: (1) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > severe. The best chiropractors use a variety of therapeutic modalities, > not just manipulation. I see the physiotherapist and am doing the exercises to strengthen supporting muscles. It sounds odd but it's working. Analgesics make the pain manageable until I am in control of my body again.
Do encourage your mum to have a proper examination.
Mary
Eva - 03 Nov 2004 08:28 GMT > my mom had been having pain in the hip for the past two weeks or so. > She said it started when she tried lifting some weights in the gym [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > bone scan was required; and he said no, because the xray looked really > clear. ------------ Jayu, I think your mom and I are around the same age, 56. A couple of years ago, before I ever thought I would get breast cancer, my biggest problem was severe hip pain. I had bursitis. Actually, I still have it, but it's taken a back seat, obviously. Pain killers (Celebrex, Naprosyn) either didn't help at all or only helped a little. What did help, finally, was physical therapy. The cold packs, electrical stimulation, ultrasound, and massage only provided temporary relief, but the stretching and strengthening exercises I was taught helped *tremendously*. The pain did not go away completely, but it became *manageable*. If I am walking down the street and it starts to hurt unbearably, I know that squatting down, or putting my foot up on a lamppost in a certain way, will relieve the pain and after a couple of minutes I can resume walking.
The doctor diagnosed bursitis by poking my hip and noting that there was one spot where the pain was most intense. Bursitis doesn't show up on an x-ray, evidently.
HTH, Eva
Pat from Apple Valley, CA - 04 Nov 2004 02:17 GMT >Hello all, >I probably know the answer to this one; but anyway, [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >Jayashree. > After experiencing extreme back pain I had 3 ex-rays taken within 6 weeks. One said my bone density was better than average for my age.(62) at the time. One said I had a small amount of arthritis to the tailbone aand lower back. the third said I had real good pads between the back bones..One of these was ordered by my Onc. All prescribed pain killers. I have quite an assortment. I had to change oncologists to find that all my problem was bone mets and to get started on doing something about the pain. I am on Taxotere and Aredia, just finished my 5th treatment and all I need for pain is 1 vicodan at bedtime. I could probably do with a motrin, but I sleep so good with my bedtime snack..My tumor markers had gone up to 2400 in just a short time. It found bone mets to the back and head. They are slowly falling at about 300 per treatment. I may never get to the number 38, but was only at 40 imediately after my first surgery and chemos and rads in 2000...so close is all I expect. I would go back to the Onc and get at least a CA27.29. If there is activity there then a bone scan...Pat from Apple VAlley, CA
PS: Kaye301, Where are you?????
Jayashree Iyer - 08 Nov 2004 16:18 GMT Hello, Thanks to all who responded. I tried posting a couple of times over the past few days, but for some reason, i wasnt able to. Anyway, I spoke with my mom; told her to start getting massages again and to continue doing stretching exercises. I also asked her to go to the oncologist; but even after lot of pestering by me, she didnt agree to go just yet. She did go visit our family doc again though; and he prescribed some other medicines this time; and told her to monitor her pain for 10 days; if at the end of it, it hadnt disappeared, she would need to get a scan done. I guess I will jsut have to wait and see. Jayashree.
> >Hello all, > >I probably know the answer to this one; but anyway, [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > PS: Kaye301, Where are you????? Pat from Apple Valley, CA - 09 Nov 2004 02:57 GMT >Hello, >Thanks to all who responded. I tried posting a couple of times over [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] >> I would go back to the Onc and get at least a CA27.29. If there is >>activity there then a bone scan...Pat from Apple VAlley, CA Your Mother's PCP can order the CA 27.29 test, If she is reluctant to go to the Oncologist. It was the first sign that I had mets. If my Onc would have put me on chemo when I was at 1300, instead of 2400, and in sooooo much back pain I couldn't breathe. I would be done by now instead of looking at about a year's worth of treatments to go, if I can tolerate it.. He chose to ignore the findings and gave me the old dirge about treating for ever or just at the end, like Kay301's Dr said to her. If I never hear that line again it will be too soon.... These things have to be attacked early,. Waiting is not an option In my book....Pat from Apple Valley, CA
Jayashree Iyer - 11 Nov 2004 04:47 GMT For some strange reason, I have been unable to post from my work place; and hence it takes me time to respond.. Pat, my mom lives in India; and I dont think we have tests by the same name there. Probably docs use them internally; but atleast my doc hasnt mentioned anything by that name to me. I am not worried about her oncologist not caring enough to respond; because he is a family friend and a great guy; Im only concerned that she wont tell him. Anyway, I have pleaded with her again to let him know; and she has agreed, so I hope that she will follow through with it. As a follow-up; she says her pain is relatively less in the mornings; and if she has rested enough; and increases when she sits for long times together. She also has been having the beginning of arthritic pain in her knees; so maybe this is the onset of osteoperosis too. Oh well.. I guess we will know soon enough one way or the other. Thanks all, for your inputs. Cheers Jayu.
A. P. Thorsen - 11 Nov 2004 15:56 GMT > As a follow-up; she says her pain is relatively less in the mornings; > and if she has rested enough; and increases when she sits for long > times together. There are no absolutes, only probabilities . . . but in my understanding of things, this pattern, too, would be more typical of some kind of non-cancer-related musculo-skeletal issue, and less typical of metastatic BC. Often, cancer-related pain is worse at night; often, other musculo-skeletal pain is improved by rest.
I think we already suggested considering massage therapy, osteopathic or chiropractic manipulation, or the like. If her doctor approves, other helpful options might be gentle stretching or self-massage of leg/hip/back.
Things I've tried that have been helpful for my back problems (besides massage & osteopathic manipulation) include yoga practice; and books like "Stretching" by Bob & Jean Anderson, "The Ultimate Body Rolling Workout" by Yamuna Zake & Stephanie Golden (you need a ball in addition to the book), and "The Multifidus Back Pain Solution" by Jim Johnson & Scott Boden. ("The Miracle Ball Method" by Elaine Petrone comes with appropriate balls, but I think the book not as good as Yamuna Zake's -- Petrone recommends some things, like using the ball on the tailbone, that Zake thinks are risky.)
Jeez . . . reading that last paragraph, I sound like a hypochondriac. Eeek!
I hope your mom is able to find some relief!
Ann T. Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email
Jayashree Iyer - 11 Nov 2004 17:43 GMT Ok, My mom finally called the oncologist; and he has asked her to get a bone scan done for the hip tomorrow. ok, now to tell you the truth; im a little nervous and scared now. I should have expected the scan, but I guess I was kinda hoping he is going to just say of course there is nothing to worry about. sigh... another long day of waiting..i pray the scan comes clear at the end of it. jayu
Mary Fisher - 11 Nov 2004 17:51 GMT > Ok, > My mom finally called the oncologist; and he has asked her to get a > bone scan done for the hip tomorrow. ok, now to tell you the truth; im > a little nervous and scared now. I should have expected the scan, but > I guess I was kinda hoping he is going to just say of course there is > nothing to worry about. He can't. He's not a magician, no doctor is. We're very fortunate to have tools which CAN see inside our bodies.
> sigh... another long day of waiting..i pray the scan comes clear at > the end of it. So do I, but if it doesn't she's on the way to treatment. Your mother has done the right thing in seeing the doctor.
Mary
> jayu Eva - 11 Nov 2004 19:42 GMT > Ok, > My mom finally called the oncologist; and he has asked her to get a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > sigh... another long day of waiting..i pray the scan comes clear at > the end of it. ------------ My prayers are with you and your mom too. Eva
bell-lady - 12 Nov 2004 04:13 GMT Shortly after my chemo I began having pain in the hip, actually the 'hollow' in the butt, right in the middle of it, down deep, and deep massage caused SERIOUS pain instantly, so I knew it wasn't muscular. After several other tests, and bone scan which showed nothing, an MRI with contrast showed a cyst at the opening where a nerve goes thru the pelvis at the SI joint. It was caused by vertebrae getting older and sloughing-off cells, which accumulated and fomed this blockage. It was serious pain, from center of butt, down outside of leg, especially bad outside of knee and shin, across top of foot to big toe. Got worse lying or reclining, or sitting still or standing (not walking, walking was ok) for long time, like a hour or more. I had same-day back surgery, 3" scar on my spine, but I had NO pain immediately after surgery or for a few years after. It's back now, I get cortisone shots every 6 months to SI joint which help for awhile. But it appears to be just deteriorating bones, I guess like arthritis. I've also lost an inch in height, despite taking Fosamax and calcium. But at least it isn't cancer! Funny how things are different after cancer, isn't it? What's important and what's not...the divider beetween the two got WAY higher on the scale of things. Keep pressing forward with the tests - something will surface, and I pray for you its not the big C. Ann in PA
C. Falise - 12 Nov 2004 05:49 GMT > Ok, > My mom finally called the oncologist; and he has asked her to get a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the end of it. > jayu i'm glad she finally agreed to let the onc in on this. at least now you will know what is going on. i know it's stressful when they want to do scans...i'm going through the same thing right now. i go for bone scan and ct scan monday. i'm hoping this just turns out to be one of those things, as they say, for both of us. hang in there.
:) -christina
Jayashree Iyer - 13 Nov 2004 13:57 GMT ok, scan showed what we feared and more. bone mets; and possibly lung and liver mets too. i cant believe all this could happen in less than a year span. i came to know yesterday; spent the entire day crying ; and today gathered up some courage to post. the onc gave her roughly a year or two. (the above sentence was the most difficult one i have ever typed in my entire life). im kinda in shock right now; my mom means everything to me; and i dont wanna have anythign happen to her.. oh well, ill stop before i continue ranting. christina, i hope your scan comes clear. all the best. jayu
Mary Fisher - 13 Nov 2004 16:27 GMT > ok, scan showed what we feared and more. > bone mets; and possibly lung and liver mets too. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > christina, i hope your scan comes clear. all the best. > jayu Jayu, I'm sure we're all very sorry to read this news.
But your mum's condition hasn't been caused by the scan, the scan has showed up things which will have been there for some time.
Now that there's a proper diagnosis your mum will be able to have treatment to make the best of the rest of her life. If she hadn't had the diagnosis it would have been far worse.
Also, remember - although it's very hard to acknowledge - that we all pass on eventually. I'm sure you don't take her for granted but now you'll be able to give even more to your mum and not put off things which might have been a bit inconvenient.
We all have to face it, I'd rather know what's what about me and mine rather than having an abrupt end ...
Big Hugs,
Mary
A. P. Thorsen - 15 Nov 2004 15:15 GMT > ok, scan showed what we feared and more. > bone mets; and possibly lung and liver mets too. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > two. (the above sentence was the most difficult one i have ever typed > in my entire life). Jayu, I'm so very sorry that you and your mother have gotten this bad news. My heart goes out to you & your family.
Ann T. Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email
J - 21 Nov 2004 21:10 GMT > As a follow-up; she says her pain is relatively less in the mornings; > and if she has rested enough; and increases when she sits for long > times together. > She also has been having the beginning of arthritic pain in her knees; > so maybe this is the onset of osteoperosis too. Jayu, Do you know what bubblepack is? big bubbles on a sheet (made of plastic).
She may have less hip pain if she sits on that. However, she may have to shift positions and/or stand up (frequently) if her knees get worse when sitting. J
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