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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / November 2004

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Hip bone pain

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Jayashree Iyer - 02 Nov 2004 20:25 GMT
Hello all,
I probably know the answer to this one; but anyway,
my mom had been having pain in the hip for the past two weeks or so.
She said it started when she tried lifting some weights in the gym
with her feet which were too heavy; and she felt a sudden pain in her
lower back or hip. She went to our family doctor, who recommended some
pain killers. The pain was bearable for two weeks after that; though
it didnt disappear completely; but for the past two days or so, it has
suddenly increased, she said. She went back to the doc, who
recommended an X-ray. The x-ray came out clear; so now the doc said
perhaps it may be because of weak bones due to calcium deficiency or
something. She asked him if it might be mets to the bone; and if a
bone scan was required; and he said no, because the xray looked really
clear.
She refuses to visit our oncologist (i think it scares her, as it does
me)and it will take me quite a bit of pestering to ask her to go.
So my question really is, is the doctor right? is an Xray enough at
this point; and does a clear xray indicate that Im just being my usual
paranoid self?

To give a background again, My mom finished her treatment for stage 3
bc last November.
Please let me know what everyone thinks. You people are the only ones
I can ask advice from; I know everyone here would understand what I am
going through.
Thanks.
Jayashree.
C. Falise - 02 Nov 2004 20:58 GMT
hi-
not sure if i can help here - but i'll try.
i've had it go both ways on x-rays.  for a year before my diagnosis i had
been cracking ribs.  at one point i went to a doc (walk-in clinic - have no
health ins.) and he xrayed the rib.  said it was a minor fracture and that
perhaps i had osteoporosis.  i'm only 38 - was 36 at that time.  so, it
seems that the bone mets that were causing the fracture did not show up on
simple x-ray.
about six months ago, i was having problems with my shoulder.  turns out i
have mets there too.  i had just had bone scan a couple of months earlier
that showed the mets, and onc said we could xray it to see if things had
progressed (trying to save money by not having another bone scan done).  it
seems that they could identify the mets on that xray, but perhaps because
they already knew what they were looking at.
i hope it turns out to be just a strained ligament or something.  it does
concern me that the pain has not gone away yet, and has in fact gotten
worse.  it was bad hip pain that finally got me to my diagnosis last
october.
question - how old is mom?  could it be osteoporosis?  it often affects hips
first.  maybe a bone-density test would be a good idea.
given your mom's situation, she should consult with her oncologist if she
has not done so already.  it can be frightening, but IMHO knowing is always
better than wondering.  either way...
good luck.
we'll be here for ya regardless.
:)
-christina

> Hello all,
> I probably know the answer to this one; but anyway,
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> Thanks.
> Jayashree.
A. P. Thorsen - 03 Nov 2004 00:07 GMT
> Hello all,
> I probably know the answer to this one; but anyway,
> my mom had been having pain in the hip for the past two weeks or so.
> She said it started when she tried lifting some weights in the gym
> with her feet which were too heavy; and she felt a sudden pain in her
> lower back or hip.
....
> She refuses to visit our oncologist (i think it scares her, as it does
> me)and it will take me quite a bit of pestering to ask her to go.
> So my question really is, is the doctor right? is an Xray enough at
> this point; and does a clear xray indicate that Im just being my usual
> paranoid self?

If the doctor is saying things look good on an X-ray, it seems like that
would tend to rule out a fracture.  If it's not a fracture, and onset
was sudden, mets don't seem exceedingly likely.  Have you/she considered
a massage therapist, an Osteopathic physician who specializes in
manipulation, or a chiropractor?

I've had several scares over back, hip, leg, etc., pain.  I've had bone
scans & X-rays.  So far, it's consistently turned out to be
musculo-skeletal stuff, and I've gotten the best relief from my D.O.,
massage therapist, and self-treatment (consistent easy stretching, heat
& ice at appropriate times, etc.).

Hope it turns out to be something similarly minor!

Ann T.
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C. Falise - 03 Nov 2004 00:21 GMT
> If the doctor is saying things look good on an X-ray, it seems like that
> would tend to rule out a fracture.  If it's not a fracture, and onset
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Ann T.
> Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email

not to frighten  the op, but when my hip went, it went overnight.  i simply
woke up one morning and could not put weight on that leg.   i had no
fracture of the hip.  just pain.
more than likely it is something else, esp since xrays are clear and more
importantly it happenned during physical workout...  just thought i'd relate
my experience with it.
hope all goes well.
-c.
Sandy L - 03 Nov 2004 03:22 GMT
> Hello all,
> I probably know the answer to this one; but anyway,
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> Thanks.
> Jayashree.
I would join the chorus with Ann.  Common diseases remain common even in
patients who have or have had breast cancer.  Hip joint pain is not all that
common and is usually referred to the groin, not the buttocks.  Pain in the
back and buttock suggests a low back strain, perhaps with some jamming of
the facet joints between vertebrae, with a lower probability of a ruptured
disc.  That is very common in all kinds of people and does not suggest
metastatic disease very strongly at all.  With the negative x-rays, a
combination of medical and chiropractic management is probably optimal the
medical side would consist of:  (1) anti-inflammatory medicines, which
should be taken on a fixed schedule, not just when the pain gets bad, (2)
muscle relaxers, which are not very effective by themselves but add enough
to the anti-inflammatories to make them worth trying, and maybe (3) pain
medicines (opiates) if the pain is severe.  The best chiropractors use a
variety of therapeutic modalities, not just manipulation.
Mary Fisher - 03 Nov 2004 10:47 GMT
> I would join the chorus with Ann.

So would I.

Earlier this year I had a bone scan becuase I was worried that my hip pain
might be caused by mets. It's important for your mum to be examined, the
fear won't go away if she isn't and if the cause is found it can be treated.

> Common diseases remain common even in patients who have or have had breast
> cancer.  Hip joint pain is not all that common and is usually referred to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> common in all kinds of people and does not suggest metastatic disease very
> strongly at all.

I have both osteo arthritis in my hips and some lower back problem.

> With the negative x-rays, a combination of medical and chiropractic
> management is probably optimal the medical side would consist of:  (1)
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> severe.  The best chiropractors use a variety of therapeutic modalities,
> not just manipulation.

I see the physiotherapist and am doing the exercises to strengthen
supporting muscles. It sounds odd but it's working. Analgesics make the pain
manageable until I am in control of my body again.

Do encourage your mum to have a proper examination.

Mary
Eva - 03 Nov 2004 08:28 GMT
> my mom had been having pain in the hip for the past two weeks or so.
> She said it started when she tried lifting some weights in the gym
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> bone scan was required; and he said no, because the xray looked really
> clear.
------------
Jayu, I think your mom and I are around the same age, 56.  A couple of years
ago, before I ever thought I would get breast cancer, my biggest problem was
severe hip pain.  I had bursitis.  Actually, I still have it, but it's taken
a back seat, obviously.  Pain killers (Celebrex, Naprosyn) either didn't
help at all or only helped a little.  What did help, finally, was physical
therapy.  The cold packs, electrical stimulation, ultrasound, and massage
only provided temporary relief, but the stretching and strengthening
exercises I was taught helped *tremendously*.  The pain did not go away
completely, but it became *manageable*.  If I am walking down the street and
it starts to hurt unbearably, I know that squatting down, or putting my foot
up on a lamppost in a certain way, will relieve the pain and after a couple
of minutes I can resume walking.

The doctor diagnosed bursitis by poking my hip and noting that there was one
spot where the pain was most intense.  Bursitis doesn't show up on an x-ray,
evidently.

HTH, Eva
Pat from Apple Valley, CA - 04 Nov 2004 02:17 GMT
>Hello all,
>I probably know the answer to this one; but anyway,
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>Jayashree.
>  

After experiencing extreme back pain I had 3 ex-rays taken within 6
weeks. One said my bone density was better than average for my age.(62)
at the time. One said I had a small amount of arthritis to the tailbone
aand lower back. the third said I had real good pads between the back
bones..One of these was ordered by my Onc. All prescribed pain killers.
I have quite an assortment. I had to change oncologists to find that all
my problem was bone mets and to get started on doing something about the
pain. I am on Taxotere and Aredia, just finished my 5th treatment and
all I need for pain is 1 vicodan at bedtime. I could probably do with a
motrin, but I sleep so good with my bedtime snack..My tumor markers had
gone up to 2400 in just a short time. It found bone mets to the back and
head. They are slowly falling at about 300 per treatment. I may never
get to the number 38, but was only at 40 imediately after my first
surgery and chemos and rads in 2000...so close is all I
expect.
I would go back to the Onc and get at least a CA27.29. If there is
activity there then a bone scan...Pat from Apple VAlley, CA

PS: Kaye301, Where are you?????
Jayashree Iyer - 08 Nov 2004 16:18 GMT
Hello,
Thanks to all who responded. I tried posting a couple of times over
the past few days, but for some reason, i wasnt able to.
Anyway, I spoke with my mom; told her to start getting massages again
and to continue doing stretching exercises.
I also asked her to go to the oncologist; but even after lot of
pestering by me, she didnt agree to go just yet. She did go visit our
family doc again though; and he prescribed some other medicines this
time; and told her to monitor her pain for 10 days; if at the end of
it, it hadnt disappeared, she would need to get a scan done.
I guess I will jsut have to wait and see.
Jayashree.

> >Hello all,
> >I probably know the answer to this one; but anyway,
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>
> PS: Kaye301, Where are you?????
Pat from Apple Valley, CA - 09 Nov 2004 02:57 GMT
>Hello,
>Thanks to all who responded. I tried posting a couple of times over
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
>> I would go back to the Onc and get at least a CA27.29. If there is
>>activity there then a bone scan...Pat from Apple VAlley, CA

Your Mother's PCP can order the CA 27.29 test, If she is reluctant to go
to the Oncologist.  It was the first sign that I had mets. If my Onc
would have put me on chemo when I was at 1300, instead of 2400, and in
sooooo much back pain I couldn't breathe.  I would be done by now
instead of looking at about a year's worth of treatments to go, if I can
tolerate it.. He chose to ignore the findings and gave me the old dirge
about treating for ever or just at the end, like Kay301's Dr said to
her. If I never hear that line again it will be too soon....
These things have to be attacked early,. Waiting is not an option In my
book....Pat from Apple Valley, CA
Jayashree Iyer - 11 Nov 2004 04:47 GMT
For some strange reason, I have been unable to post from my work
place; and hence it takes me time to respond..
Pat, my mom lives in India; and I dont think we have tests by the same
name there. Probably docs use them internally; but atleast my doc
hasnt mentioned anything by that name to me. I am not worried about
her oncologist not caring enough to respond; because he is a family
friend and a great guy; Im only concerned that she wont tell him.
Anyway, I have pleaded with her again to let him know; and she has
agreed, so I hope that she will follow through with it.
As a follow-up; she says her pain is relatively less in the mornings;
and if she has rested enough; and increases when she sits for long
times together.
She also has been having the beginning of arthritic pain in her knees;
so maybe this is the onset of osteoperosis too.
Oh well.. I guess we will know soon enough one way or the other.
Thanks all, for your inputs.
Cheers
Jayu.
A. P. Thorsen - 11 Nov 2004 15:56 GMT
> As a follow-up; she says her pain is relatively less in the mornings;
> and if she has rested enough; and increases when she sits for long
> times together.

There are no absolutes, only probabilities . . . but in my understanding
of things, this pattern, too, would be more typical of some kind of
non-cancer-related musculo-skeletal issue, and less typical of
metastatic BC.  Often, cancer-related pain is worse at night; often,
other musculo-skeletal pain is improved by rest.

I think we already suggested considering massage therapy, osteopathic or
chiropractic manipulation, or the like.  If her doctor approves, other
helpful options might be gentle stretching or self-massage of leg/hip/back.

Things I've tried that have been helpful for my back problems (besides
massage & osteopathic manipulation) include yoga practice; and books
like  "Stretching" by Bob & Jean Anderson,  "The Ultimate Body Rolling
Workout" by Yamuna Zake & Stephanie Golden (you need a ball in addition
to the book), and "The Multifidus Back Pain Solution" by Jim Johnson &
Scott Boden.  ("The Miracle Ball Method" by Elaine Petrone comes with
appropriate balls, but I think the book not as good as Yamuna Zake's --
Petrone recommends some things, like using the ball on the tailbone,
that Zake thinks are risky.)

Jeez . . . reading that last paragraph, I sound like a hypochondriac.  Eeek!

I hope your mom is able to find some relief!

Ann T.
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Jayashree Iyer - 11 Nov 2004 17:43 GMT
Ok,
My mom finally called the oncologist; and he has asked her to get a
bone scan done for the hip tomorrow. ok, now to tell you the truth; im
a little nervous and scared now. I should have expected the scan, but
I guess I was kinda hoping he is going to just say of course there is
nothing to worry about.
sigh... another long day of waiting..i pray the scan comes clear at
the end of it.
jayu
Mary Fisher - 11 Nov 2004 17:51 GMT
> Ok,
> My mom finally called the oncologist; and he has asked her to get a
> bone scan done for the hip tomorrow. ok, now to tell you the truth; im
> a little nervous and scared now. I should have expected the scan, but
> I guess I was kinda hoping he is going to just say of course there is
> nothing to worry about.

He can't. He's not a magician, no doctor is. We're very fortunate to have
tools which CAN see inside our bodies.

> sigh... another long day of waiting..i pray the scan comes clear at
> the end of it.

So do I, but if it doesn't she's on the way to treatment. Your mother has
done the right thing in seeing the doctor.

Mary

> jayu
Eva - 11 Nov 2004 19:42 GMT
> Ok,
> My mom finally called the oncologist; and he has asked her to get a
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> sigh... another long day of waiting..i pray the scan comes clear at
> the end of it.
------------
My prayers are with you and your mom too.
Eva
bell-lady - 12 Nov 2004 04:13 GMT
Shortly after my chemo I began having pain in the hip, actually the 'hollow'
in the butt, right in the middle of it, down deep, and deep massage caused
SERIOUS pain instantly, so I knew it wasn't muscular. After several other
tests, and bone scan which showed nothing, an MRI with contrast showed a
cyst at the opening where a nerve goes thru the pelvis at the SI joint. It
was caused by vertebrae getting older and sloughing-off cells, which
accumulated and fomed this blockage. It was serious pain, from center of
butt, down outside of leg, especially bad outside of knee and shin, across
top of foot to big toe. Got worse lying or reclining, or sitting still or
standing (not walking, walking was ok) for long time, like a hour or more.
I had same-day back surgery, 3" scar on my spine, but I had NO pain
immediately after surgery or for a few years after. It's back now, I get
cortisone shots every 6 months to SI joint which help for awhile. But it
appears to be just deteriorating bones, I guess like arthritis. I've also
lost an inch in height, despite taking Fosamax and calcium. But at least it
isn't cancer! Funny how things are different after cancer, isn't it? What's
important and what's not...the divider beetween the two got WAY higher on
the scale of things.
Keep pressing forward with the tests - something will surface, and I pray
for you its not the big C.
Ann in PA
C. Falise - 12 Nov 2004 05:49 GMT
> Ok,
> My mom finally called the oncologist; and he has asked her to get a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> the end of it.
> jayu

i'm glad she finally agreed to let the onc in on this.
at least now you will know what is going on.
i know it's stressful when they want to do scans...i'm going through the
same thing right now.  i go for bone scan and ct scan monday.
i'm hoping this just turns out to be one of those things, as they say, for
both of us.
hang in there.
:)
-christina
Jayashree Iyer - 13 Nov 2004 13:57 GMT
ok, scan showed what we feared and more.
bone mets; and possibly lung and liver mets too.
i cant believe all this could happen in less than a year span.
i came to know yesterday; spent the entire day crying ; and today
gathered up some courage to post. the onc gave her roughly a year or
two. (the above sentence was the most difficult one i have ever typed
in my entire life).
im kinda in shock right now; my mom means everything to me; and i dont
wanna have anythign happen to her..
oh well, ill stop before i continue ranting.
christina, i hope your scan comes clear. all the best.
jayu
Mary Fisher - 13 Nov 2004 16:27 GMT
> ok, scan showed what we feared and more.
> bone mets; and possibly lung and liver mets too.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> christina, i hope your scan comes clear. all the best.
> jayu

Jayu, I'm sure we're all very sorry to read this news.

But your mum's condition hasn't been caused by the scan, the scan has showed
up things which will have been there for some time.

Now that there's a proper diagnosis your mum will be able to have treatment
to make the best of the rest of her life. If she hadn't had the diagnosis it
would have been far worse.

Also, remember - although it's very hard to acknowledge - that we all pass
on eventually. I'm sure you don't take her for granted but now you'll be
able to give even more to your mum and not put off things which might have
been a bit inconvenient.

We all have to face it, I'd rather know what's what about me and mine rather
than having an abrupt end ...

Big Hugs,

Mary
A. P. Thorsen - 15 Nov 2004 15:15 GMT
> ok, scan showed what we feared and more.
> bone mets; and possibly lung and liver mets too.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> two. (the above sentence was the most difficult one i have ever typed
> in my entire life).

Jayu, I'm so very sorry that you and your mother have gotten this bad
news.  My heart goes out to you & your family.

Ann T.
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J - 21 Nov 2004 21:10 GMT
> As a follow-up; she says her pain is relatively less in the mornings;
> and if she has rested enough; and increases when she sits for long
> times together.
> She also has been having the beginning of arthritic pain in her knees;
> so maybe this is the onset of osteoperosis too.

Jayu,
Do you know what bubblepack is?  big bubbles on a sheet (made of plastic).

She may have less hip pain if she sits on that.
However, she may have to shift positions and/or stand up (frequently) if
her knees get worse when sitting.
J
 
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