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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / September 2004

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Chemo side effects question

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Eva - 02 Sep 2004 13:18 GMT
Are the side effects of Taxotere inevitably worse than those of A&C?

I'm going to start Taxotere next week, after having an *awful* time with
A&C.  I've just been sick as a dog for the past 2 months.  I was looking
forward to having something different but now that I've read about
Catharine's finger and toe nails falling out, and the guy whose wife's tear
ducts were scarred shut, I begin to think this is going to be unimaginably
worse.

Of course when I did a Google search for "Taxotere side effects" neither
losing nails nor tear duct scarring were mentioned, but I have no doubt that
they really happened.

(I'm not going to start the Herceptin immediately.  My oncologist wants to
wait till the Adria is out of my system before giving me something else that
is risky to my heart.)

Eva
Tim Jackson - 02 Sep 2004 17:54 GMT
> Are the side effects of Taxotere inevitably worse than those of A&C?
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> ducts were scarred shut, I begin to think this is going to be unimaginably
> worse.

It depends on the person.  I think one might say that AC has more consistent
side effects, taxanes are more variable, better or worse, at least that's
the way it seems to be reported.

If you are interested in the nitty-gritty you might want to look at the
prescribing sheet.
http://www.aventis-us.com/PIs/taxotere_TXT.html
Under adverse reactions it shows for example nail -changes- as common - 40%,
but 'severe' nail changes as rare, at only 3.7%.
Please don't assume that you are going to get all the rare side effects,
remember most people don't get any of them.

My wife had Taxol at stage IV (it was on clinical trials back then), which
tends if anything to be worse for side effects, and she only got hair loss
and mouth sores, and some travel sickness, and of course depressed
white-cell counts.  (But in her case it didn't stop the cancer either, so
I'm not sure that is a recommendation).

Tim Jackson.
bell-lady - 02 Sep 2004 22:24 GMT
HI. I had A/C 20 years ago, and Taxotere/C in 2001. I was deathly ill for
over 48 hours, and mildly toxic the rest of each month on AC. Had 12 monthly
doses. Taxotere was once every 3 weeks for 4 doses. I was nauseous, didn't
eat much (food tasted funny - you'll hear that alot), but that's a good
thing for me! I didn't throw up, just didn't gobble food down. Did lose
hair, but no differently that AC, still came back in grayer and mostly like
it was before. Did have nail problems, didn't lose any, but they looked sort
of like fungus - yellowish. I painted them with Penlac (Rx), and all got
well after treatments ended. Some mild thrush/mouth sores with Taxanes I
didn't remember with AC, the remedies mentioned here helped quite a bit.

All in all I was a MUCH less miserable camper on Taxotere than AC - I call
Adriamycin the "Red Devil" and even the staff used that among themselves!

Ann in PA

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scott.t.bradley - 04 Sep 2004 03:10 GMT
The side effects of Taxotere may also be related to how often you get
treatments.  My wife was on weekly treatments, not once every three weeks as
most folks get.  The 'dose dense' weekly seems to hit people harder.

Best Regards,
Scott
Eva - 04 Sep 2004 14:22 GMT
> The side effects of Taxotere may also be related to how often you get
> treatments.  My wife was on weekly treatments, not once every three weeks as
> most folks get.  The 'dose dense' weekly seems to hit people harder.
>
> Best Regards,
> Scott
-----------
I hope this is true.  I've been getting A&C every 2 weeks and I'm just
horribly sick.  I'll be getting the Taxotere every 3 weeks.  What side
effects did your wife experience?
Eva
pro - 07 Sep 2004 00:03 GMT
my wife is on T after AC, she is on three week cycle. AC was much tougher
than T in her case. she feels more fatigue, bit of muscle or joint pain and
light color change on her nails. Pain is bearable. She is not taking pain
killer. She has two more cycles to go, altogether, she has four. We keep our
finger crossed.

In the end, you are the winner.

Regards,

J

: The side effects of Taxotere may also be related to how often you get
: treatments.  My wife was on weekly treatments, not once every three weeks as
: most folks get.  The 'dose dense' weekly seems to hit people harder.
:
: Best Regards,
: Scott
Eva - 04 Sep 2004 14:25 GMT
Thanks Ann I hope my Taxotere experience will parallel yours.  I have lost
quite a bit of weight on A&C which is *not* a good thing for me.  It hurts
so much to swallow.  I feel awful and I can't wait till this sh.t is out of
my system!  Eva
----------
> HI. I had A/C 20 years ago, and Taxotere/C in 2001. I was deathly ill for
> over 48 hours, and mildly toxic the rest of each month on AC. Had 12 monthly
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Ann in PA
Eva - 04 Sep 2004 14:33 GMT
> > Are the side effects of Taxotere inevitably worse than those of A&C?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Please don't assume that you are going to get all the rare side effects,
> remember most people don't get any of them.

---------
I did look at the prescribing sheet before I posted, but I think these
things kind of minimize the side effects--for example, it describes nail
*discoloration* but never mentions nail *loss*, and the tear-duct scarring
isn't mentioned at all.  The listed side effects for A&C never mention one
of the worst things I am experiencing, inflammation of the hands and feet so
painful that at times I can't walk, and I can't open a bottle without an
assistive device.   They mention mouth sores, but they don't mention that
the mouth sores can be so severe that you can't swallow.

I just hope to God the Taxotere is easier on me than the A&C has been.  I
don't think I can take another 3 months of feeling like this.
Eva
Pat from Apple Valley, CA - 07 Sep 2004 19:39 GMT
>Are the side effects of Taxotere inevitably worse than those of A&C?
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>Eva

   I think I have had all the  side effects that were mentioned except
nausea and throwing up. Sore mouth, sore rear end, fatigue,
constipation, Taxotere burn, hair loss, and the tingly toes.  
   I had my second Taxotere treatment a week ago. I have been getting
cracks in the corners of my mouth, (hurts when I open my mouth) and a
slightly sore mouth, nothing like I did with A/C. I have fatigue which
seems to last most of the 3 weeks between. I have been sleeping a min.
of 2 hours every afternoon. about 5 hours after waking..I don't feel
like doing anything.
   I have been feeling a funny dead feeling in my big toes on and off.
I figure it is working on my toenails. I have lost about 1/3 of my hair,
tho actually shaved off the rest, thinking like with A/C that it would
all go shortly. So far it is hanging in there and growing so I have to
keep shaving or get pricklies. How does Michael Jorden keep his soft and
shiney..? Maybe I was a little premature on the shaving bit.
   I can't stand the taste of coffee unless it is in an iced latte kind
of thing and some other foods especially meat doesn't appeal to me. I
have not lost any weight, tho so guess my caloric content is enough to
sustain me. Veggies go down pretty well and are pretty tasty. I have
decided this time that I am going to eat stuff that taste good and to
heck with the nutriments. Ice cream, frozen yoghurt, and York Peppermint
patties go down well..
   My daughter got me an elixer called Seasilver. They have a website.
Which was supposed to help a friend of hers feel better faster after
treatments. This stuff is full of herbs and minerals, but you have to
hold your nose to take it, UGH!!! I told her I would take this bottle,
but not to buy me another one..So far, After a week, I feel no change. I
tend to want instant gratification, tho..
   On the plus side, my tumor markers were at 2400 and I had a lot of
bone pain, which has lessened alot..Don't know where the markers are at
this point after 2 treatments but will know by the next and hope to see
a big drop...
   Good luck, Pat Richardson
 
 
 
Cathy Emerson - 07 Sep 2004 22:16 GMT
I did A/C & Taxol 5 yrs ago and Taxotere last year.  Taxotere was much
more difficult.  I did it weekly for 3 then 1 week off for 5 cycles.
Have been off of it for 1 year. Had to stop 1 month early due to pleural
effusion. I was bloated and short of breath.  My lymphedema arm became
grossly swollen and is now permanently swollen, fibrosed and disabled.
Also the standard, more minor side effects: hair loss inc brows and
lashes which have not fully recovered. Nails pulling away from nail bed
and infected. Nasal congestion (still have), watery eyes (still have),
bad taste, mouth sores, minor neuropathy, leg pain, weight gain.
Oh, the joys of breast cancer!  Cathy  
Pat from Apple Valley, CA - 08 Sep 2004 02:44 GMT
>I did A/C & Taxol 5 yrs ago and Taxotere last year.  Taxotere was much
>more difficult.  I did it weekly for 3 then 1 week off for 5 cycles.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>  

   Cathy,
   I had all my other stuff in 2000, and am now back with bone mets to
the head and ribs. The Ribs were extremely painfull causing me at one
time to go to emergency as I could not breath thru the spasms. They have
lessened alot. I still take a pain pill for sleeping but that is all.
Now if the numbers would just go from 2400 to 35 in a couple of
sessions..I would be in hog heaven...
   I am with a New Onc. HE said that Taxotere was more easily tolerated
than A/C and Taxol. Can't say as I have found that to be. I don't have
the horrible mouth sores that I had with A/C, but not comfprtable to say
the least. The first time it got better in the second week, so I'll just
getting there, now. I can't wait. I was told I would be on it for 6
months, and as I said I get them every 3 weeks. Don't know if I want to
feel this way all that time...Yuck..Pat..
Eva - 08 Sep 2004 03:30 GMT
> >I did A/C & Taxol 5 yrs ago and Taxotere last year.  Taxotere was much
> >more difficult.  I did it weekly for 3 then 1 week off for 5 cycles.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> >bad taste, mouth sores, minor neuropathy, leg pain, weight gain.
> >Oh, the joys of breast cancer!  Cathy

>     I am with a New Onc. HE said that Taxotere was more easily tolerated
> than A/C and Taxol. Can't say as I have found that to be. I don't have
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> months, and as I said I get them every 3 weeks. Don't know if I want to
> feel this way all that time...Yuck..Pat..

------------
I was supposed to have my first Taxotere treatment the day after tomorrow,
but I have been in bed for four days unable to chew, or to swallow anything
other than applesauce or pudding.  Until today I couldn't even swallow much
water.  The oncologist has now postponed my first T treatment until 9/21 and
has given me antibiotic and antifungal medications to treat my mouth sores,
which at this point feel like I have 2nd-degree burns throughout my mouth
and throat.  I was supposed to be taking my temperature twice a day but had
stopped because it was too painful to put the thermometer under my tongue.
She took my temperature with one of those forehead strips, and glory be!  I
had a fever.  There, that proves I was really sick and not just being a wuss
about my symptoms, ha ha.  Boy, I tell you, I thank God the A&C is over with
now, but I'm not looking forward to the Taxotere one little bit.  The
thought of my nails coming off, for some reason, particularly horrifies me.

Eva
Pat from Apple Valley, CA - 08 Sep 2004 04:29 GMT
>>    
>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>Eva

Eva,
   I had those mouth sores from A/C and I know what you mean. I feel so
sorry for you and hope you get better soon. I always said that I think I
would have preferred nausea and vomiting to the sores. Really my mouth
has not been the same as before A/C yet.  If I try a new toothpaste or
brush, invariably, I will have trouble with it..I do rinse my mouth a
lot with 1 tsp salt, 1 tsp, baking soda in a quart of warm water. My
mouth allways feels better after, for awhile, and use Lidocaine
liberally often...I used it as a kind of mouthwash. Just poured some in
my mouth and swished..Good Luck...Pat from Apple Valley, CA
Eva - 08 Sep 2004 05:13 GMT
>     I had those mouth sores from A/C and I know what you mean. I feel so
> sorry for you and hope you get better soon.
--------
And I hope the same for you.  Thanks.

Eva
Eva - 08 Sep 2004 23:58 GMT
>     I had those mouth sores from A/C and I know what you mean. ...Really
my mouth
> has not been the same as before A/C yet.  If I try a new toothpaste or
> brush, invariably, I will have trouble with it..
----------
Hey, guess what, Pat!  I just today discovered Biotene toothpaste.  It is
$8.00 a tube but I am thrilled with it because *it doesn't burn my
tongue*!!!!!  Did you ever try it?

(Disclaimer:  I have no commercial connection with this product!)
Eva
Pat from Apple Valley, CA - 09 Sep 2004 02:07 GMT
>  
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
>  

No I have't got out to shop much. I will look for it. Last time I tried
one that foamed up like you were rabid..It was supposed to be
gentle.Still burned!  Last time I brushed I did the Lidocaine swish and
it worked pretty well. No panic to rinse.Pat
Eva - 09 Sep 2004 02:27 GMT
> >Hey, guess what, Pat!  I just today discovered Biotene toothpaste.  It is
> >$8.00 a tube but I am thrilled with it because *it doesn't burn my
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> gentle.Still burned!  Last time I brushed I did the Lidocaine swish and
> it worked pretty well. No panic to rinse.Pat
-----------
I got it in CVS, a big chain drugstore here in NY.  It wasn't with the
regular toothpaste, it was in with the expensive tooth whitening strips and
products like that.  Biotene also makes a mouthwash, also very expensive,
but I did not find the mouthwash helpful....or let's say it wasn't any more
soothing than plain salt water.
Eva
Cathy Emerson - 08 Sep 2004 06:19 GMT
I have heard from others that their onc said that Taxotere was better
tolerated than A/C.  Well, they aren't the ones experiencing it.  The
only thing better with Taxotere is no nausea.  I'm prob like others in
that I don't report all my side effects to my onc.  Only the ones I need
her to deal with because I don't like to complain.  So they prob assume
we don't have them.
Cathy
Tony Lima - 13 Sep 2004 05:10 GMT
>I have heard from others that their onc said that Taxotere was better
>tolerated than A/C.  Well, they aren't the ones experiencing it.  The
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>we don't have them.
>Cathy

Cathy, sorry to hear of your bad experience.  In fact all of
us who have been through chemotherapy (or watched our loved
ones experience it) know that each individual responds
differently.  My late wife Gloria had a very rough time with
Taxotere, but had an easier time with Taxol.  Please don't
rely on group averages as predictors of what you'll
experience.  Instead drop in here and check Tim's web site
for stories told by those who have actually taken the drugs
in question.

Best wishes, Tony

Love & Light
Tony Lima
Pat from Apple Valley, CA - 13 Sep 2004 21:35 GMT
>I have heard from others that their onc said that Taxotere was better
>tolerated than A/C.  Well, they aren't the ones experiencing it.  The
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>  

Cathy,
   You know, I have had a worse time with the Taxotere, also. Here is
the part of the reason why, I think. When I had the A/C and Taxol, I was
pretty close to being healthy, meaning I had no cancer symptoms. Only
the lump, which I had not noticed and didn't cause me any discomfort. I
WAS healthy, except for the d--n lump.
   This time, The shoe had finally dropped. I was having cancer related
problems. Fatigue, extreme back pain from mets and pain on the scalp
also from mets. My tumer markers had gone from 40 to 2400 in a short
period of time. I had not conquered the beast. It was back and making me
unwell feeling. Since I was not as strong as I was at the beginning the
chemo is taking it's tole on my body. So I am more tired and the side
effects are bothering me more. If I had had taxotere at the beginning
instead of being my third chemo, I think the effects would not feel as
bad. For example my mouth gets sore, but NOTHING like it was on A/C...I
can at least eat. My energy is poor, but I did go thru it all before, so
was not as strong to start with..Then our mind set is more depressed,
also. Out outlook is not as positive as when we were first diagnosed,
either. Depression can make things worse...That's the way I see it
anyway....Pat from Apple Valley, CA
Cathy Emerson - 14 Sep 2004 02:24 GMT
Hi Pat,
I had 4 yrs between ACT and Taxotere. I had no symptoms of my liver mets
and was perfectly healthy (or at least felt that way).  I think it was
that there was so many different side effects  and all I had with Taxol
was just leg pain.  I am amazed that some women can be on Taxotere
indefinitely.  I guess I could if I didn't have to work but I do. So, I
stopped it while I could still go to work.
Cathy  
SssynSmrt - 10 Sep 2004 00:14 GMT
Eva:

2 things for mouth sores.  

1.  You can gargle with but don't need to swallow Malox.  It will coat your
mouth and throat and make it easier to eat and swallow.  

2.  Get some Rembrandt toothpaste for Canker Sore Sufferers.  It works because
it contains no Sodium Laurel or Laureth Sulfate which aggravates mouth sores.

Sassy
Kaye301 - 12 Sep 2004 21:51 GMT
Kaye301 - 12 Sep 2004 21:52 GMT
Eva wrote << I'm going to start Taxotere next week, after having an *awful*
time with
A&C.  I've just been sick as a dog for the past 2 months.  I was looking
forward to having something different >><BR><BR>
Kaye301 - 12 Sep 2004 21:56 GMT
Eva wrote << I'm going to start Taxotere next week, after having an *awful*
time with
A&C.  I've just been sick as a dog for the past 2 months.  I was looking
forward to having something different >><BR><BR>

Each responds differently to the different chemos.  I did okay on AC but it was
given every 3 weeks and had an awful time on Taxol.  I found Taxotere much
easier.  One of my colleagues had a horrible time with dose-dense AC but is
finding Taxol much easier.  The main problem I had with Taxotere was that the
pre-steroids did a number on my skin--had an horrific case  of acne.  Before my
next treatment I was given prophylactic doxycycline, and did not have that
problem.  Perhaps that was a blessing in disguise in that the doxycycline may
have made the Taxotere work better.
I had the Taxotere with the Herceptin, but I had been given 5 weeks of
radiation after the AC and before starting the taxane.
I hope you have an easier time with it than you did with the AC.  Take care and
wishing you all the best!
Eva - 12 Sep 2004 23:57 GMT
> Eva wrote << I'm going to start Taxotere next week, after having an *awful*
> time with
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> I hope you have an easier time with it than you did with the AC.  Take care and
> wishing you all the best!
-----------
Thank you, this gives me some hope!
Eva
 
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