Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / July 2004
don't think it came through the 1st time..
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PuterTroubles - 28 Jul 2004 07:48 GMT I was sent here by another group. I just copied and pasted what I posted to them, to save some time with typing..
Hi, I'm not sure if this is where I should be or not, but I will send this intro anyway. My mother has been fighting breast cancer for about 3 years now. She has been in remission twice, but alas it has returned yet again. She has done the chemo and radiation, in fact she has maxed out radition and can no longer have it. She had a mastectomy about a year ago. Now the cancer is returning in her scar tissue. This time they cannot even do a biopsy without making a hole to big to close, and they have also found a suspicious spot on her lung. My mother is only 47 years old and the thought of losing her is almost to much to bear. We haven't always been close, and I wouldn't really call us close now, but we are working on our relationship. Is there anyone here that has beaten this disease after this many tries? What else can she do besides chemo and radiation? Any info would be very helpful. Thanks.
Ginny
Alex - 28 Jul 2004 14:09 GMT With breast cancer you never go into remission, it is not a term they use since breast cancer can come back at any time.
Can you tell us more about her cancer and intial and follow up treatment? Did she have a lumpectomy follow by mastectomy? What kind of chemo has she had? It is tumor er/pr Positive? What about her HER/2 Status?
In general, may women can live with stage IV disease ( that is what she would have if the lungs are involved). The treatment would be more chemo probably a different type. Also is she being treated at an academic medical center ? If not a second opinion maybe need. Let us know more details and maybe we can guide you along this. Alex
PuterTroubles - 28 Jul 2004 23:34 GMT >With breast cancer you never go into remission, it is not a term they >use since breast cancer can come back at any time. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >academic medical center ? If not a second opinion maybe need. Let us >know more details and maybe we can guide you along this. Alex Alex,
I'll answer as many of these questions as I can, but I don't know the answers to all of them. My mother and I have just started rebuilding our relationship after quite a few years away from each other. The first time she was diagnosed with breast cancer they did a lumpectomy and removed the lump. They treated her with chemo and radiation, though I'm not sure what kind as she was in Arizona and I was in Michigan at the time. She moved back to Michigan shortly after finishing her treatments.Within a year another lump appeared. The dr. did a biopsy and cofirmed cancer again. She was told she could not have another lumpectomy, but needed a mastectomy instead. So she had the surgery to remove her left breast, and again had chemo and radiation, and again I'm not sure what kind as this is where we just started talking again. Upon removing her breast within just a few short months another lump was discovered, this time in the scar tissue. The dr. removed it and again it was positive for cancer. She once again did radiation and chemo, and was told that this would be the last time radiation could be used because she was *maxed out* for her lifetime. I didn't know you could max out any kind of treatment, but according to my mother that is what she was told. They also removed her ovaries saying that the cancer was attached to her estrogen. A few weeks ago she again complained about a lump in her scar tissue. The dr looked at it and said it was probably cancer again but he says he cannot remove it without leaving a hole to large to close. Her heart has been damaged by the chemo, and they suspect that it was also hit with radiation though they say they won't know that until she is dead and an autopsy is done. Once the second lump was found on her scar they did more scans and that is when the mysterious spot on her lung was found. She has more tests this week and next, including a cat scan tp try to determine if the spot on her lung is cancer too. I don't know what a HER/2 is, but I can ask her about it. She is being treated at a very good hospital here. It's a special cancer center, but I really want to try to get her to go to Ann Arbor, it's the best medical university around here. She really likes her dr.'s though so I doubt she'll go anywhere else. I think that is all the info I have for now, but I will ask your ?'s to her too and see if maybe I can give you more info. Thank you all for your help so far.
Ginny
Guess Who - 29 Jul 2004 00:40 GMT Well, The good news it sounds like she had several local recurrences which is great news opposed to having new cancers or mets. The lung should be worked up, and hopefully it is nothing. As far as the surgeon being unable to remove the new lump, I respect a doctor who know that s/he can't do something but your mother is a young woman, I would try to get her to Ann Harbor where a more skilled surgeon can attempt the surgery. If she is Her/2 positive there is a drug which can treat the cancer successfully...but it also damages the heart. She may do very well if all the cancers are local! Glad to hear you are reconnected with your mother. Alex
Kaye301 - 29 Jul 2004 07:16 GMT Alex wrote: << If she is Her/2 positive there is a drug which can treat the cancer successfully...but it also damages the heart. >>
Although Herceptin does have increased propensity to cause cardiac related difficulties in a small percentage who take it, it does not necessarily damage the heart. Even if one did develop cardiac-related difficulties with Herceptin, there are antidotes which can reverse the problem and lessen or eliminate the problem.
bartalo@webtv.net - 29 Jul 2004 15:18 GMT >If she is Her/2 positive there is a drug > which can treat the cancer > successfully...but it also damages the > heart.
>Alex Alex...would you please post which drug you are referring to? I am post-menopausal Her2+ and ER+ was just switched from Tamoxifen to Arimidex by my new oncologist and he made no mention of any possible heart damage with these drugs when going over the different side-effects with them. If it can be a side effect of Arimidex then I need to discuss other options with him. Thanks!
Bea
Tim Jackson - 29 Jul 2004 19:26 GMT > >If she is Her/2 positive there is a drug > > which can treat the cancer [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Bea Alex was referring to Herceptin.
You don't -have- to be HER+ to have Tamoxifen or Arimidex, you just need to be ER+, and for the Arimidex, also post menopausal.
These hormone therapy drugs are not known to cause any heart damage, and serious side effects from them are rare.
Tim Jackson
Kaye301 - 28 Jul 2004 15:37 GMT Ginny, so sorry to hear about your mom. Cancer sucks. That aside there are different complementary treatments that work for some. I don't know if there is anything that can cure cancer but it may help keep it under control. What works for one may not work for another, and what works to destroy some malignant cells may not work for all of them. That is the nature of cancer. However, some feel that it can be controlled like a chronic disease. Do you know what treatments your mom has had? Was the cancer ER+? Her2+? There are some promising studies which show that the cox 2 inhibitor -- Celebrex -- has anti-tumor activity if taken at the maximum safe dose level of 800 mg/day. If your mom has bone metastases (or not), the antibiotics Doxycycline or Tetracycline (from same family) may help prevent them, keep them under control, and/or even help with healing. There are other complimentary alternatives that show promise. These include cesium but one has to be careful of that because of possible cardiac risks. Then there is Ip6 which some have reported has given them good results. There is the supplement cumerin or tumeric--a spice--which comes in capsule form and has shown anti-tumor activity. Another relatively safe alternative that shows good promise is mega doses of certain vegetables through juicing. This would include cruciferous vegetables such as cabbage, cauliflower, and particularly broccoli sprouts as well as others that I can't recall off top of my head. Some take juice capsules -- "Juice Plus." I would think the real stuff would be better. Juicing can be done on your own by purchasing a juicer. We recently got a new, wonder machine--that works very well and is very easy to clean (the most important part). Now, I can't say that the vegetables that I juice taste the best, but one could add various seasonings--but I am more concerned about potential benefit than taste. Besides even if some don't taste that great, it isn't physically painful to drink then. Then there is also green tea which can help. Not only drinking it but I read that it could be mixed with an antibiotic as well as Ibuprofin (capsules) and aloe vera gel to make a topical ointment which may be effective against some skin malignancies. I don't really know if it works but I did read it. Then there is also a topical treatment one can get from Germany under a compassionate use program for skin metastases to help them heal--it is called Miltex. In addition I recently read that hyperbaric medicine can facilitate healing of sores that are difficult to heal.
PuterTroubles - 28 Jul 2004 23:39 GMT >Ginny, so sorry to hear about your mom. Cancer sucks. That aside there are >different complementary treatments that work for some. I don't know if there [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >Miltex. In addition I recently read that hyperbaric medicine can facilitate >healing of sores that are difficult to heal. Kaye,
Thank you for this info. I will print it off and show her, maybe she has or can try some of these. Thanks for the help.
Ginny
Kaye301 - 28 Jul 2004 15:39 GMT Here is one link to treatment of hard to heal areas from cancer using hyperbaric medicine: http://www.vmmc.org/dbArticles/article151351.asp
Alex - 29 Jul 2004 19:23 GMT Heart problems with Herceptin: In a small number of women, Herceptin alone or in combination with chemotherapy can lead to serious heart problems including ventricular dysfunction and congestive heart failure. This life-threatening side effect is more common among patients who receive Herceptin in combination with the AC chemotherapy regimen (chemotherapy consisting of an anthracycline, such as Adriamycin or Ellence, and cyclophosphamide). However, Herceptin is not approved for use with this chemotherapy drug combination outside of the clinical trial setting. Women considering Herceptin should have their heart function evaluated by a physician before beginning treatment. Once on Herceptin, women should be closely monitored for any heart problems that may occur.
I don't know what Kaye is refering to an antidote to Herceptin, but the potential heart damage caused by herceptin is cogestive heart failure which only a few short years ago was hard to treat and now can be effectively treated by medications.
Also there is a new ( in clinical trials) second generation of herceptin http://www.lbbc.org/trans_tele20040622.html
From the web page"Then to finish up, I myself presented data on a completely new way of treating breast cancer. Trastuzumab is an antibody and it binds to the HER-2 protein. Lapatinib is a new drug. It is a pill, so unlike the trastuzumab, which many of the audience might be familiar with, which is given through the vein or as an IV medication, this is actually a pill with little to no toxicity. There's no hair loss. There's no nausea. About five percent of patients will get diarrhea with this medicine.
Unlike trastuzumab the way this drug works is it's almost like a direct bomb to the HER-2 and the EGFR receptor. So unlike trastuzumab, which only targets the HER-2 protein, this drug actually targets not only HER-2, but another important protein found in breast cancer, which is EGFR. Many of you might be familiar with this protein because it's the target for a drug called Iressa, which was recently approved in lung cancer.
The study that I presented was in patients who had already received trastuzumab and their tumors had continued to grow on trastuzumab. So we used this new way of targeting the HER-2 protein in addition to targeting the EGFR protein. What we found is that at eight weeks or two months of treatment close to half of the patients had cancers that had either stopped growing or had responded to the treatment, remembering that these were patients who had received a number of chemotherapies prior to going onto the study, and treatment with at least eight weeks of trastuzumab study.
When we looked at the data a little bit better at four months of treatment close to one third of the patients cancers had not grown or they had shrunk in size. This is certainly one of the highest response rates we've ever seen in metastatic breast cancer, especially HER-2 positive breast cancer. So there are currently a number of trials ongoing with this new treatment called lapatinib, and I think a lot of people were excited about this drug. Certainly the presentation and the efficacy that we saw with the drug in metastatic "
Kaye301 - 30 Jul 2004 03:38 GMT Alex wrote: << I don't know what Kaye is refering to an antidote to Herceptin, but the potential heart damage caused by herceptin is cogestive heart failure which only a few short years ago was hard to treat and now can be effectively treated by medications.
That was from memory of what my onc told me and what I had read--that there were medications that could be given along with the Herceptin if one were to start showing signs of congestive heart failure while on it and that generally, it was reversible. I don't know that much about it but that was what at least 2 oncologists told me. I had been worried about that since I was born with a congenital heart murmer. I had no problems with it (Herceptin) at least as far as I know, and I was on it for one year--weekly. At the time I had it they were no longer giving it with AC because of the increased cardiotoxic risk when given together.
Guess Who - 30 Jul 2004 22:24 GMT No cardiac symptoms by now, I think you are clear. I don't think the cardiac effects of herceptin are severe as initially thought.
> Alex wrote: << I don't know what Kaye is refering to an antidote to Herceptin, > but [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > At the time I had it they were no longer giving it with AC because of the > increased cardiotoxic risk when given together.
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