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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / February 2005Trouble after quiting antibiotics
I guess this will be of interest to those who have helped their asthma with antibiotics. I did the treatment for the 12 weeks uner my doctor's supervision. I felt 100% better. About a month afterwards I started to get worse again. My doctor agreed to put me back on for an additional 6 weeks. Again, I felt better. Now i have been off the antibiotics for 2 weeks and I am starting to have trouble daily again. I have sort of accepted that the antibiotics are not going to cure me. But why do I get better on them and then worse when I go off? I was on the Zythromax. My doctor agreed that I had been on them long enough to kill anything if I did have it. I am just so down and confused as to why I would get so much better on them and feel so badly again when going off. Not sure what to do next... > I guess this will be of interest to those who have helped their asthma > with antibiotics. I did the treatment for the 12 weeks uner my [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > why I would get so much better on them and feel so badly again when > going off. Not sure what to do next... Lisa, I have been through this very thing - not knowing whether to continue. You know, Zithromax has an anti-inflamatory effect of its own. Could be that. Or could be that you have been unable to completely eradicate the germ. Or you might have some other respiratory infection and will feel better shortly. Or you might also suspect that you have gotten what you are going to get from the treatment. I am not totally cured either. But that would be what you would expect based on the first study. Of the orginal 42 patients, only 4 were cured, 18 got "better" and the rest didn't benefit. Then I began to wonder if the the 18 had been allowed more than 3 months of antibiotics, would they have been cured????? No one at this stage knows. In my own case, I find that instead of being SOB most of the time, I have trouble mostly now only in the summer. So I suspect that I got what I was going to get improvement-wise from the antibiotics I took (that I now have triggers and more antibiotics won't help). Remember, the doctors at National Jewish are speculating that after we contract an infection, that sets up a change. If that turns out to be true, more antibiotics won't help you. Do you want me to find that literature? I don't think anyone can really tell you for sure what to do in the absence of reliable tests. Unless you want to try a lung biopsy to prove you still have an infection you are really in a guessing game. You can always observe for awhile and see if you can figure out if you are continuing to decline. Has your doctor an opinion? Joy He does not really have an answer for me. He did suggest doing more lung function tests in a few months after we see how I do for a bit. He even said he would be happy to test for the pneumonia bacteria. He did not originally do this, so I can not say right now if I had it for sure or not. I thought I did because I felt so much better. His main suggestion is to continue with traditional asthma medications. I did know that the antibiotic does have an anti-inflamitory effect but would it be so much that i would go from need my inhalor 4 times a day to not at all for months while on the antibiotics? I didn't think just that effect would help me so much. At the moment I am back on the inhalor 3 times a day and have to up my steriod inhaler again which none of them seem to help very much anyway. It just seems odd to me. I wished I would have demanded to test before to be sure that was what I was dealing with. Right now it is depressing me quite a bit. But I can only wait and see I guess. Lisa, I would have your doctor call Dr. Hahn, who will be able tell him whether or not he's seen this before. I'll email you his phone number. I do suggest you have your titers drawn for both mycoplasma and c. pneumoniae, just to see what they look like at this point. It could be the properties of the antibiotics, like Joy said, although I've never heard of antibiotics allowing you to completely drop all meds before. Improvement yes, but not that much. Or it could be this is just particularly stubborn in your case. Hard to say, but maybe Dr. Hahn will offer some good advice. > He does not really have an answer for me. He did suggest doing > more [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > can > only wait and see I guess. And YES before the Doctors make you another one of their experiments.......look for an alternative....ask the Doctors if they are Familiar with IAQ (Indoor Air Quality) and UVC ( ultraviolet C) or UVG (ultra violet germicidal) effects on these microbes that is infecting you...... do not tell them what it means first.....note their responses......you will be surprised at some of their responses Great Doctors become Great not because of their Studies.....it is because of their experiments and other Doctors Experiments. what you what to do is attack the source of the Problem...........and treat your infection........Not see the doctor so he/she can give another dose chemicals? ..........internet is here use it to do a research..........do not trust a doctors opinion on your very own body ....research why are some doctors usually not sick after seeing a sick patient? part of it is in the air they Breath in the office.....their little secret.... why do they use to sterilize the (theater) ....aka surgery room? answer: UV > Lisa, I would have your doctor call Dr. Hahn, who will be able tell him > whether or not he's seen this before. I'll email you his phone number. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >> dealing with. Right now it is depressing me quite a bit. But I can >> only wait and see I guess. > And YES before the Doctors make you another one of their > experiments.......look for an alternative....ask the Doctors if [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > why do they use to sterilize the (theater) ....aka surgery > room? answer: UV Talk about polluting the air. Agreed! I have no interest padding anyones pockets for another air "cleaner." > > And YES before the Doctors make you another one of their > > experiments.......look for an alternative....ask the Doctors if [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Talk about polluting the air. it is okay Lisa......I am still curious where is my web in your thread again? You can Pad The Doctors Pockets for all I care.... is fine with me....it is your Lungs anyways > Agreed! > I have no interest padding anyones pockets for another air "cleaner." [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> >> Talk about polluting the air. > You can Pad The Doctors Pockets for all I care.... is fine > with > me....it is your Lungs anyways He cares. He would greatly prefer if you pad his instead.  Signature00doc by the way this not an air cleaner....there is a big difference between air cleaner and AirPurifier/Sterilizer cleaner just collect the bacteria in the filter and makes the filter a breeding ground....... AirPurifier/Sterilizer is like boiling the baby bottles to kill bacteria. the same technology used to sterilize "surgery rooms" the same technology to kill bacteria off your vegetables/meats/juices/milk pretty much everything you eat......the same technology to kill the same bacteria that got immune to your Drugs in a Petri dish. the same technology that your Drug company is using to sterilize their equipment..........hey it is your lungs....you be the judge...oh Do Not purchase "OZONE Generators"...it is good when you have smoke damage to your house......otherwise "not good for people at all" If you want I can direct you to other vendors of this particular technology I really do not care.....I just gave them my web.....because I can save you a ton of money......so you can spend the spare change and enjoy the weekend with your children/love ones at DISNEY or where-ever it is Fun for you.....but if you can spare between $50.00 to 1000.00 then go for it....... unlike CEO whose got something stuck up her *ss and afraid I might take over her thread and play yard.....you be the judge lonely people/bullies tend to congregate with people who are popular like Miss ratatat mouth CEO..... but hey this is America there are jerks/bullies/and stuckup people......by the way CEO My boss is laughing at your comments....he said you almost sounded like his ex-wife "people who usually are afraid of change squeaks the loudest" my quote to CEO > Agreed! > I have no interest padding anyones pockets for another air "cleaner." [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> >> Talk about polluting the air. > by the way this not an air cleaner....there is a big > difference > between air cleaner and AirPurifier/Sterilizer You're right - there is a difference. There is a half decent chance that a good air cleaner may help. Signature00doc > AirPurifier/Sterilizer is like boiling the baby bottles to > kill > bacteria. Good example. Boiling baby bottles is also old advice that is not longer considered good. > the same technology used to sterilize "surgery rooms" Oh really? At best that is a partial truth. > the > same technology to kill bacteria off your > vegetables/meats/juices/milk pretty much everything you > eat...... Really? Don't you need a license to selll radioactive material? > Do Not purchase "OZONE Generators" Finally! Some good advice. Signature00doc > Talk about polluting the air. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL I love your sense of humor! LMAO. exactly....... aren't they obnoxious Little Bullies at the school yard ooops you belong to that group >I love your sense of humor! LMAO. > exactly....... aren't they obnoxious Little Bullies at the school yard > > ooops you belong to that group Come in here and call everyone names (Bullies) and then you wonder why you aren't welcomed with open arms? I don't know. It makes perfect sense to me. Joy Ahh....Now this is a Classic "Denial" case >> exactly....... aren't they obnoxious Little Bullies at the school yard >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Joy No comment too LOLOLOLOLOL >> Talk about polluting the air. > > LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL exactly Miss Bully Afraid of me taking over your THREAD.......Bring it ON Chill out >> And YES before the Doctors make you another one of their >> experiments.......look for an alternative....ask the Doctors if they are [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Talk about polluting the air. Lisa, Try and keep your chin up. Remember that several people reported they continued to improve for Months after they stopped taking the antibiotics. So, this may be a temporary setback. Are you at the point that you are a bad off as you always were? First, how long as it been since have you been using your inhaler? More than 2 weeks? How long were you able to go without meds after you stopped the antibiotics? If the inhaler used to work before you started the antibiotics, I am not able to explain why would it not work now. Has this ever happened to you before? Was the winter typically your bad time of the year? Like you, my impression was that Zithromax has a slight anti-inflammatory effect. So you know, I think you might be onto something there. Joy Me I am Just an Inhaler/Nebulizer free for 8 months and counting. so it is up to you to try another Doctor being paid by the Chemical company. and advertised by his/her little school yard (newsgroup) bullies. you do not have to buy from me.....I do not care...all I get is a measly $3.00 per sale anyways. There are more UV airpurifiers out there that runs between 250.00 to 3,000.00 per unit. > Lisa, > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Joy > Me I am Just an Inhaler/Nebulizer free for 8 months and counting. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > $3.00 per sale anyways. There are more UV airpurifiers out there that runs > between 250.00 to 3,000.00 per unit. Look Joe, Not everyone is going to be helped by your product. They don't have that type of asthma. We don't care if you contribute. Tell Lisa why her asthma would be helped by your product. We suspect she has an infection because antibiotics helped her. Does your UV purifier clean out the infection in her respiratory tract? Joy what is antibiotics?.........find out what it means.......... second question....How did she acquire it? where is the source......could be toxic mold? infection? how did she get the infection......outside source or inside her body? does the antibiotics cleanout the source of her infections.? the Body (white blood corpuscle) are very busy fighting the bug....help it...by what Chemicals or eliminating the source with UV Airpurifier what does preventive medicine mean? Does it include removing the source of the Problem? I cannot advise anyone about their health I am not certified to do that.......UV purifier is an Alternative.....to purify the air which "might" be the source of her problem.........we do not know because there is no IAQ test that has been done yet...... everybody is attacking the problem but not eliminating the source of the problem. tuberculosis how is it transmitted? could the bug been transmitted the same was as Tuberculosis......? "we do not care" as in 5 people 10 people how many.......100.... well I care...because you might be giving her Bad advice.......padding my packet.......No go ahead buy the units that cost an arm and a leg....and works the same as mine let us put it this way.......you believe in traditional medicine......Drugs........There are alternative to chemicals there are different way to fight the source....... 1. ignore it and take drugs 2. burn the house and move 3. test the IAQ in the house and get rid of the source Look Joe, Not everyone is going to be helped by your product................... so how do you know that your (their) Advice (chemicals) works.........bug are getting drug resistant....you want it to get resistant to another form of drug..... They don't > have that type of asthma.........so which Asthma is this > again......Biological or manmade.......... even the tree beside her house (if there is one) could be incubating the Microbes.... We suspect she has an infection > because antibiotics helped her....... and the bugs got immune to it.....right? so advise a stronger Chemical........why don't you just drink bleach sweetened with NutraSweet (carcinogen) that contains saccharine to get saccharine disease... so you think downing more chemicals helps..............find the source, kill the source and you think UV airpurifier is not a form of Antibiotic....well you are very wrong....it is not just antibiotic....it eradicate the microbes and microbes will not even have a chance to be UV resistant..... you can use OZONE Generators......just do not live in the house for 30 days or a safer method....UV airpurifier........ too much sources of info out there please research.........eliminate the source then treat the problem.... >> Me I am Just an Inhaler/Nebulizer free for 8 months and counting. >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Joy > what is antibiotics?.........find out what it means.......... Zithromax > second question....How did she acquire it? Usually community aquired pneumonia but could have manifested as any respiratory infection. > where is the source......could be toxic mold? No, > infection? how did she get the infection......outside source or inside her > body? Well, in the beginning, it would have to be outside, but now....... > the Body (white blood corpuscle) are very busy fighting the bug....help > it...by what Chemicals or eliminating the source with UV Airpurifier Not as evidenced by blood tests for these particular bugs. Takes a lung biopsy to test for. > what does preventive medicine mean? Does it include removing the source of > the Problem? Don't we all wish we could have done that, but it is now too late. > I cannot advise anyone about their health I am not certified to do > that.......UV purifier is an Alternative.....to purify the air which "might" > be the source of her problem.........we do not know because there is no IAQ > test that has been done yet...... > everybody is attacking the problem but not eliminating the source of the > problem. Yes I posted about that last week in OT > tuberculosis how is it transmitted? could the bug been transmitted the same > was as Tuberculosis......? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > 2. burn the house and move > 3. test the IAQ in the house and get rid of the source Burn her lung? I thought you cared. > Look Joe, Not everyone is going to be helped by your > product................... > > so how do you know that your (their) Advice (chemicals) works.........bug > are getting drug resistant....you want it to get resistant to another form > of drug..... Yeah, we acknowledge that problem > They don't > > have that type of asthma.........so which Asthma is this > > again......Biological or manmade......... . Biological > even the tree beside her house (if there is one) could be incubating the > Microbes.... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Chemical........why don't you just drink bleach sweetened with NutraSweet > (carcinogen) that contains saccharine to get saccharine disease... Who knows. These bugs are hard to beat. > so you think downing more chemicals helps..............find the source, kill > the source > > and you think UV airpurifier is not a form of Antibiotic....well you are > very wrong....it is not just antibiotic....it eradicate the microbes and > microbes will not even have a chance to be UV resistant.... . No I was aware of that. I just don't think it is going to work on her lungs. > you can use OZONE Generators......just do not live in the house for 30 days You can drop the ozone thing. Everyone is very aware of the problem in here. > or a safer method....UV airpurifier........ > > too much sources of info out there please research.........eliminate the > source then treat the problem.... Good advise for allergans. Not such good advice when no one understands how the change occures, much less how to correct it. Joy > what is antibiotics?.........find out what it > means.......... > > second question....How did she acquire it? Exactly! Great question! How do people acquire the vast majority of respiratory infections? I've got a hint for you Joe - it usually is not from some bug floating around suspended in the air of your living room. > where is the source......could be toxic mold? Hmmm..... mold usually grows adherent to some surface. How would your product get rid of the mold? Is it bathing the whole room? Even behind the walls? > infection? how did she get the infection......outside > source or > inside her body? Floating in the air? > does the antibiotics cleanout the source of her > infections.? Does your product? Do yuo have any literature that suggests people who use your product have fewer infections. > the Body (white blood corpuscle) are very busy fighting > the > bug....help it...by what Chemicals or eliminating the > source with UV > Airpurifier White corpuscles? That's it? I knew you were an ingnorant twit. > I cannot advise anyone about their health I am not > certified to do > that....... Clearly. > UV purifier is an Alternative.....to purify the air which > "might" be the source of her problem Might is putting it strongly. > .........we do not know because > there is no IAQ test that has been done yet...... Ummmmm.......if we do not know then why should we buy your product. Tell you what - why don't you send them out for free tirals and if we feel better we will buy it. You want us to risk money on your completely unsubstantiated "might". Why don't you put the money where your mouth is and take the financial risk? > tuberculosis how is it transmitted? Droplet nuclei. They can stay suspended in the air for a good hour or so (IIRC). So for anyone who has not had a coughing TB patient in their living room within the last hour your product won't do much. I'm glad you brought up TB - I wasn't sure whether to get into it. When you see UV lights in hosptial rooms that is generally what they are trying to reduce. The staff still wears heavy protection. You generally don't see UV light boxes outside of TB isolation rooms much (certainly not in mahy OR's). > could the bug been transmitted > the same was as Tuberculosis......? Probably not. Not many are. > so how do you know that your (their) Advice (chemicals) > works.........bug are getting drug resistant....you want > it to get > resistant to another form of drug..... "They" have studies. You? > and you think UV airpurifier is not a form of > Antibiotic....well you > are very wrong....it is not just antibiotic....it > eradicate the > microbes and microbes will not even have a chance to be UV > resistant..... 1st - what do you think the definition of antibiotic is? 2nd - there is a such a thing as UV resistant bacteria. Signature00doc Thanks Joy and Maureen too. I am keeping my chin up. Actually feeling a bit better today. But it is easier to feel hopeful when one feels better, isn't it. I am not a patient person but I have no choice but to wait and see how it goes. My inhalers didn't work very well before I went on the antibiotics. So that is what lead me to this idea of the infection. I read so many stories on the other site and it sounded so familar to me. I am still on my steriod inhaler, just one puff a day though. I was weaning off when I stopped the antibiotics again. I have went two weeks without meds and it started acting up again. Today for some reason, though I am doing a bit better. I am going to try not to freak out and take it one day at a time. Maybe I will still be joining the "cured." On a side note, what a hoot this thread turned out to be. I got a good laugh. Thanks all. Lisa > Lisa, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Joy > Thanks Joy and Maureen too. > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Lisa Lisa, you're wise to take it one day at a time. I know of people who used a rescue inhaler a few times after the antibiotics and then just realized that a year had gone by where they hadn't used anything. You really do need to allow your lungs the time to heal, if your asthma was caused by a bacterial infection. Patience.....it isn't easy, I know. If you think you're freaking out now, wait until you encounter someone who is sneezing and coughing.....lol. > If you think you're freaking out now, wait until you encounter > someone who is sneezing and coughing.....lol. LOLOL So true. I know I am "Damaged" for life. Joy > My inhalers didn't work very well before I went on the antibiotics. I recall thinking that too. It was one of the reasons I thought I was a good candidate. So > that is what lead me to this idea of the infection. I read so many > stories on the other site and it sounded so familar to me. I am still > on my steriod inhaler, just one puff a day though. That is in my view pretty typical. You just see what the next few months will bring. My improvement to where I am today was not right after finishing the antibiotics. I was weaning off > when I stopped the antibiotics again. I have went two weeks without > meds and it started acting up again. Today for some reason, though I am > doing a bit better. I am going to try not to freak out and take it one > day at a time. Maybe I will still be joining the "cured." And even if you don't, as I didn't, I am grateful everyday just to be better. I still pay right before Tstorms and in the summer, but how nice not to be that way all of the time! > On a side note, what a hoot this thread turned out to be. I got a good > laugh. Thanks all. Some people just don't know when they are punching the tar baby. Joy I'm just thinking, too, that in the months following treatment, people have good days and bad days. Maybe this time you'll have a couple of bad days and they'll stop. Improvement is seen for up to a year following treatment. I would still have my doctor contact Dr. Hahn, but don't be discouraged, this may be one isolated bad period for you that is only temporary. Maureen, that would be great if you could email it. I think he would call him in a second. I dont think he knows what to do with me at the moment, lol. I am trying to keep my hopes up. One day at a time... > I'm just thinking, too, that in the months following treatment, > people have good days and bad days. Maybe this time you'll have > a couple of bad days and they'll stop. Improvement is seen for > up to a year following treatment. I would still have my doctor > contact Dr. Hahn, but don't be discouraged, this may be one > isolated bad period for you that is only temporary. Lisa, Check you IAQ (indoor Air Quality). it may be the air you are breathing (whatever bug is getting you is getting resistant to the Drugs) there are plenty Government agencies to guide you there......pollution indoors is 100% is greater than outdoors per government and scientific studies the worst thing you can have in the house is BLACK Mold aka toxic mold and may reside in areas you cannot readily see.......go to www.epa.gov search for IAQ you will find some interesting facts Joe >I guess this will be of interest to those who have helped their asthma > with antibiotics. I did the treatment for the 12 weeks uner my [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > why I would get so much better on them and feel so badly again when > going off. Not sure what to do next... > I guess this will be of interest to those who have helped their asthma > with antibiotics. I did the treatment for the 12 weeks uner my [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I have sort of accepted that the antibiotics are not going to cure me. > But why do I get better on them and then worse when I go off? It is well known that any respiratory infection is a trigger for asthma. So, when you are on antibiotics you are not getting this trigger and therefore feel better. If you are not allergic to anything, respiratory infection might be your main trigger and so getting rid of it makes you feel perfect. > I was on > the Zythromax. My doctor agreed that I had been on them long enough to > kill anything if I did have it. I am just so down and confused as to > why I would get so much better on them and feel so badly again when > going off. Not sure what to do next... There are other ways of getting rid of respiratory infections and improve your lung function except continious antibiotics. You already did a long-term treatment with zytromax so any chronic infection should be dead by now. Now you need to do something to prevent re-infection. Overal improvement of your physical shape and specificaly lungs function is what you have to do. I suggest you give another look to Strelnikova exercise for this purpose: http://sudy_zhenja.tripod.com/strelnikova_exercises.htm Btw description has now pictures for easier learning. My daughter is now 10 months free from attacks, and despite she got a cold once this winter it did not cause either attack or weezing, which indicates that lung function improved by exercise not only reduces infections, but also prevents asthma once infection does happen. Regards, Yevgen > My daughter is now 10 months free from attacks, and despite she > got a cold once this winter it did not cause either attack or [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Regards, > Yevge No one knows that is true either. My daughter is also asthma free (it seems) for the last 2 years and we did nothing. I went to the eye doc this week and HE reports he had asthma as a kid, but has been symptom free for 50 years without explanation. It will be some time before anyone understands this. But as I have reported before, I don't see a "conditioning" link. Joy |
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