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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / May 2004Dependence on supplementary oxygen drastically decreased
Acta Med Scand. 1979;206(4):327-32. Related Articles, Links Isovolemic hemodilution in erythrocytosis secondary to chronic obstructive lung disease. Danielson M, Nordenstrom J. Patients with chronic obstructive lung disease often present with a combination of respiratory and circulatory insufficiency. In secondary erythrocytosis (polycythemia) blood viscosity rises and further impairs peripheral oxygenation. Against this background, a patient with acute exacerbation of a chronic respiratory disease with secondary erythrocytosis was treated with isovolemic hemodilution during two periods of hospitalization. During each of these two periods, hemodilution was achieved by removing 1 700 and 1750 ml blood, respectively, and replacing this simultaneously by infusing equal volumes of dextran 70 (Maacrodex). The patient's general condition improved, her dependence on supplementary oxygen drastically decreased and the blood gas values improved after hemodilution. The progress of the disease in this case suggests that the raised hematocrit rather than hypervolemia contributed to the patient's poor condition. It also illustrates that too intensive diuretic therapy in cardiac insufficiency with concomitant erythrocytosis can lead to hemoconcentration and thereby add to the strain on an already overloaded circulation. Publication Types: Case Reports PMID: 506807 [PubMed] -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Who loves ya. Tom  SignatureJesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking >It also illustrates that too intensive diuretic >therapy in cardiac insufficiency with concomitant erythrocytosis can lead to >hemoconcentration and thereby add to the strain on an already overloaded >circulation, exacerbated by chronic hyperventilation, which no doubt was the >initial cause of the cardiac insufficiency in the first place.. And the seasons, they go round and round And the painted ponies go up and down... > Acta Med Scand. 1979;206(4):327-32. Related Articles, Links > > Isovolemic hemodilution in erythrocytosis secondary to chronic obstructive lung > disease. > > Danielson M, Nordenstrom J. I suspect I already know the answer but --- Do you realise that in this case the erythrocytosis was due to low oxygen levels, the improvement from decreased blood viscocity, and none of it had anything at all to do with iron? SignatureCBI, MD This chap frequents MS newsgroups, and is equally 'welcome' there ;-) Rgds David > > Acta Med Scand. 1979;206(4):327-32. Related Articles, Links > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > oxygen levels, the improvement from decreased blood viscocity, and > none of it had anything at all to do with iron? >Subject: Re: Dependence on supplementary oxygen drastically decreased >From: 00doc@mindspring.com (CBI) [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >oxygen levels, the improvement from decreased blood viscocity, and >none of it had anything at all to do with iron? That is a matter of contention ... Erythrocytosis was .. treated .. Erythrocytosis and ability to breathe .. are OBVIOUSLY .. associated .. Seems .. too many red blood cells .. and ability to breathe .. are linked .. I say too much iron .. YOU and your cohorts .. say .. hypoxia .. Doesn't REALLY matter .. does it .. Bloodletting .. seems to be a very good .. treatment .. Acta Med Scand. 1979;206(4):327-32. Related Articles, Links Isovolemic hemodilution in erythrocytosis secondary to chronic obstructive lung disease. Danielson M, Nordenstrom J. Patients with chronic obstructive lung disease often present with a combination of respiratory and circulatory insufficiency. In secondary erythrocytosis (polycythemia) blood viscosity rises and further impairs peripheral oxygenation. Against this background, a patient with acute exacerbation of a chronic respiratory disease with secondary erythrocytosis was treated with isovolemic hemodilution during two periods of hospitalization. During each of these two periods, hemodilution was achieved by removing 1 700 and 1750 ml blood, respectively, and replacing this simultaneously by infusing equal volumes of dextran 70 (Maacrodex). The patient's general condition improved, her dependence on supplementary oxygen drastically decreased and the blood gas values improved after hemodilution. The progress of the disease in this case suggests that the raised hematocrit rather than hypervolemia contributed to the patient's poor condition. It also illustrates that too intensive diuretic therapy in cardiac insufficiency with concomitant erythrocytosis can lead to hemoconcentration and thereby add to the strain on an already overloaded circulation. Publication Types: Case Reports PMID: 506807 [PubMed] -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Who loves ya. Tom SignatureJesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking > >Subject: Re: Dependence on supplementary oxygen drastically decreased > >From: 00doc@mindspring.com? (CBI) [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Bloodletting .. seems to be a very good .. treatment .. > ? I give blood at least 4 times a year. Feels like a positive thing to do, but doesn't improve my breathing in any way. ? ? ? ? ? >> >Subject: Re: Dependence on supplementary oxygen drastically decreased >> >From: 00doc@mindspring.com (CBI) [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >I give blood at least 4 times a year. >Feels like a positive thing to do, but doesn't improve my breathing in any way. Yes, you are helping 4 people with a wonderful gift. Very admirable. > >I give blood at least 4 times a year. > >Feels like a positive thing to do, but doesn't improve my breathing in any way. > > Yes, you are helping 4 people with a wonderful gift. Very admirable. More like 12 people. SignatureCBI, MD >> >I give blood at least 4 times a year. >> >Feels like a positive thing to do, but doesn't improve my breathing in any way. >> >> Yes, you are helping 4 people with a wonderful gift. Very admirable. > >More like 12 people. Yes, I was thinking of whole blood transfusion, and you are considering the plasma, platelet and red blood cell fractions going to three different people. That then makes it triply admirable, and you get a gold star. :) > >Subject: Re: Dependence on supplementary oxygen drastically decreased > >From: 00doc@mindspring.com (CBI) [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > That is a matter of contention ... No, it really isn't. > Erythrocytosis was .. treated .. > > Erythrocytosis and ability to breathe .. are OBVIOUSLY .. associated .. > > Seems .. too many red blood cells .. and ability to breathe .. are linked .. Yes, yes, and yes. > I say too much iron .. YOU and your cohorts .. say .. hypoxia .. No, too much iron does not lead to polycythemia. SignatureCBI, MD >Subject: Re: Dependence on supplementary oxygen drastically decreased >From: 00doc@mindspring.com (CBI) [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >No, it really isn't. Simply BECAUSE you and your cronies have ACCEPTED .. faulty .. information .. >> Erythrocytosis was .. treated .. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >No, too much iron does not lead to polycythemia. Well since polycythemia is .. in effect .. red blood cell production .. excess red blood cell production .. and since YOU and your cohorts GIVE .. iron .. TO people TO .. make .. red blood cells one might ASSUME .. too much iron would lead to too many red blood cells. But since you and your cohorts have been taught and BELIEVE .. only .. hypoxia GOVERNS red blood cell production .. I can see where you are coming from .. Party line .. Since they have only recently .. AGREED .. red blood cell production is NOT .. only .. governed by .. hypoxia .. but also by the .. iron .. Which IS .. TOTALLY AGAINST .. what they have thought since the beginning of time .. Logic would tell one .. erythrocytosis .. IS .. caused by excess .. iron .. Iron poisoning leads to erythrocytosis .. which AGAIN proves the DIRECT involvement of iron AVAILABILITY .. to .. red blood cell production .. excess red blood cell production .. Who loves ya. Tom >CBI, MD SignatureJesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking >> Subject: Re: Dependence on supplementary oxygen drastically decreased >> From: 00doc@mindspring.com (CBI) >> Date: 5/11/2004 1:34 PM Mountain Daylight Time >> Message-id: <3b227dfa.0405111134.3e6774c4@posting.google.com> >>>> Subject: Re: Dependence on supplementary oxygen drastically >>>> decreased From: 00doc@mindspring.com (CBI) >>>> Date: 5/10/2004 4:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time >>>> Message-id: <3b227dfa.0405101445.1f547d0f@posting.google.com> >>>>> Acta Med Scand. 1979;206(4):327-32. Related Articles, Links >>>>> Isovolemic hemodilution in erythrocytosis secondary to chronic >>>>> obstructive lung disease. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>>> >>>> Do you realise that in this case the erythrocytosis was due to low >>>> oxygen levels, the improvement from decreased blood viscocity, and >>>> none of it had anything at all to do with iron? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Simply BECAUSE you and your cronies have ACCEPTED .. faulty .. > information .. If the information is faulty you should have no trouble demonstrating my error. >>> Erythrocytosis was .. treated .. >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Well since polycythemia is .. in effect .. red blood cell production > .. excess red blood cell production .. and since YOU and your cohorts > GIVE .. iron .. TO people TO .. make .. red blood cells one might > ASSUME .. too much iron would lead to too many red blood cells. Yes, I certainly can understand why one might assume that - and you know what they say about assuming. The truth is that if red cell production is low because it is being limited by the unavailability of a nutrient (like iron, B12, folate) then replacing that nutrient will allow normal production of red cells. Note normal. The iron is permissive - not stimulatory. > But since you and your cohorts have been taught and BELIEVE .. only > .. hypoxia GOVERNS red blood cell production .. I can see where you > are coming from .. No, there are toher factors besides hypoxia - that is just the most common one. it just so happens that iron excess is not one of them. SignatureCBI, MD >Subject: Re: Dependence on supplementary oxygen drastically decreased >From: "CBI" >No, there are toher factors besides hypoxia - that is just >the most common one. it just so happens that iron excess is >not one of them. I see .. So CBI, MD .. simply .. doesn't KNOW his .. stuff .. In the NORMAL person .. EVERYONE agrees .. hypoxia .. ONLY .. hypoxia/lack of oxygen governs increase of red blood cell production .. It has been only recently shown .. iron .. also .. I guess I should have downloaded that article .. eh .. I'm sure we'll run across it .. again .. since in hematology it most likely is .. let's see how I should put this delicately .. very important .. and anyone IN that field is / must be FULLY AWARE of the findings .. by . now .. Who loves ya. Tom SignatureJesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking >Subject: Re: Dependence on supplementary oxygen drastically decreased >From: ironjustice@aol.comdoe (doe) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>the most common one. it just so happens that iron excess is >>not one of them. <<snip>> the intracellular iron content is critical in the modulation of hypoxia-regulated erythropoietin transgene expression. <<snip>> Exp Hematol 2000 Jul;28(7):760-4 Modulation of transduced erythropoietin expression by iron. Dalle B, Payen E, Beuzard Y Laboratory of Experimental Gene Therapy, Institut Universitaire d'Hematologie-Centre Hayem, Hopital Saint-Louis, Paris, France. OBJECTIVE: Future prospects for gene therapy of chronic anemias involve expression of the erythropoietin transgene, which is regulated by oxygen tension. However, other factors such as cytokines or the iron load of erythropoietin-expressing cells can concomitantly modulate transgene expression, as shown for the expression of the endogenous erythropoietin gene in human cell lines and in animals. We tested the effects of iron overload or depletion on the expression of the mouse erythropoietin transgene (cDNA), driven by the hypoxia-regulated phosphoglycerate kinase 1 promoter. MATERIALS AND METHODS : Retrovirally transduced mouse cells (C3H fibroblasts or C2C12 myoblasts) were cultured in normoxia (room air, O2: 21%) or hypoxia (O2: 1.5%) in the presence or absence of hemin (an iron donor) or deferiprone (an iron chelator), both of which easily enter the cell. RESULTS: Hemin inhibited the hypoxia-induced expression of the transgene. In contrast, deferiprone enhanced the hypoxia-induced expression of the erythropoietin transgene and induced its expression in normoxia. CONCLUSION: These results show that, in addition to oxygen partial pressure, the intracellular iron content is critical in the modulation of hypoxia-regulated erythropoietin transgene expression. PMID: 10907637, UI: 20362883 Who loves ya. Tom SignatureJesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking If you believe that Doe/Tom/Ironjustice is genuine, have a look at this website about Newsgroup trolls first. http://www.mikeswebsite.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/amfFAQ.html#trolls Rgds > >Subject: Re: Dependence on supplementary oxygen drastically decreased > >From: ironjustice@aol.comdoe (doe) [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > These results show that, in addition to oxygen partial pressure, the > intracellular iron content is critical in the modulation of hypoxia-regulated > erythropoietin transgene expression. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking >Subject: Re: Dependence on supplementary oxygen drastically decreased >From: "David S-H" none@none.com [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Rgds "David S-H" none@none.com Heh .. heh .. Pussssyyyy .. Can't .. step up .. so .. Heh .. heh .. Who loves ya. Tom >> >Subject: Re: Dependence on supplementary oxygen drastically decreased >> >From: ironjustice@aol.comdoe (doe) [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] >> Who loves ya. >> Tom SignatureJesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking > >Subject: Re: Dependence on supplementary oxygen drastically decreased > >From: 00doc@mindspring.com (CBI) [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > >CBI, MD If .. in your .. belief .. increased *available* iron .. DOESN'T .. increase .. red blood cell production / pseudopolycythemia .. WHY .. in your supposed learned experience .. would those with iron overload MANIFEST .. increased red cell production / pseudopolycythemia .. eh .. It ISN'T the increase .. availability .. of ABNORMAL .. levels of iron .. Eh .. And the fact MANY of our .. nebulizers .. contain substances such as thyroxine which .. DECREASES .. red .. cell .. production .. or even .. pentoxifylline Eh .. Who loves ya. Tom > Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com > Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking > If .. in your .. belief .. increased *available* iron .. DOESN'T .. > increase .. red blood cell production / pseudopolycythemia .. WHY .. > in your supposed learned experience .. would those with iron overload > MANIFEST .. increased red cell production / pseudopolycythemia .. eh It doesn't. > It ISN'T the increase .. availability .. of ABNORMAL .. levels of iron No. > And the fact MANY of our .. nebulizers .. contain substances such as > thyroxine which .. DECREASES .. red .. cell .. production .. or even > .. pentoxifylline No, they don't. http://www.mikeswebsite.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/amfFAQ.html#trolls SignatureCBI, MD |
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