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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / April 2004carpet vs laminated floor (wood or cardboard) for allergies
I always thought hard surface floor (like hard wood, wood-laminated or cardboard-laminated) are better for people who has allergy problems. Now I learn that a VOC outgasing can occur with wood floor as well as carpet. Carpet may help to keep the air pollutants from become airborne easily. And there is a study from FSEC (see below) to suggest that weekly vaccum cleaning and humidity control will prevent dust-mite problem. Is laminated or wood floor still the best choice for allergy? Or carpet is almost the same now? Thanks http://www.carpet-schools.com/cornell.htm http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/Bldg/BAIHP/PUBS/mites/ http://www.comebacktocarpet.com/media/healthy2.htm http://www.carpetbuyershandbook.com/mite_allergen_exposure.htm Note: the last two links are from carpet sellers, so the information maybe "fine-tuned" to hide the disadvantages of carpet. Well, I guess I should chirp in here as I did some research on pollution in indoor environments. Yes, you are quite right that both new carpets and new flooring offgas. Unfortunately, there are a lot of factors that influence which one offgasses more and/or for longer times and it is really hard to say one way or the other for all cases. Some things to consider: With new carpet, there is generally new underpad...another VOC source. Although carpet can trap some airborne pollutants (particulates especially), you stir the particles up again when you agitate the fibres while vacuuming. I find it faster, quieter and easier to run a swiffer over a laminate...especially as I don't have a hepa vacuum. VOC's are, as the V stands for, volatile...they come off the material as a gas and the carpet won't help reduce that. Actually, that is part of why the carpet will offgas faster and at higher levels....more surface area to use for offgassing. Laminates (depending on the particular product) offgas longer but at lower concentrations. One of the things I found was that newer houses are especially bad for indoor air quality....the houses don't breathe (poor air exchange in the name of saving energy), all the new materials will offgas for a period and new house designs often put the garage under living space (and people usually store gasoline, solvents, paints etc. in the garage). My personal preference is for laminates...and for making sure there is adequate airflow through the house anytime substantial amounts of new material comes in. Just my $0.02 worth, Michael Halliwell  Signature*************************************** Michael Halliwell temple2some@shaw.nospam.ca To Reply: remove the "nospam" *************************************** > I always thought hard surface floor (like hard wood, wood-laminated or > cardboard-laminated) are better for people who has allergy problems. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Note: the last two links are from carpet sellers, so the information > maybe "fine-tuned" to hide the disadvantages of carpet. >My personal preference is for laminates...and for making sure there is >adequate airflow through the house anytime substantial amounts of new >material comes in. > >Michael Halliwell Laminates suck... they're fake and they look fake... for good looks, long wear, and ease of cleaning nothing beats *real* hardwood flooring. http://www.woodfloors.org/consumer ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon ```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." I think central vaccum will eliminate the "stir-up" effect of vaccum cleaning. Good tip about the garage, I will ensure no paint, solvent, gasoline are stored there. What do you think of the idea to "baking a new house" by turn up the temperature to above 30C for a few days to speedup the offgassing process of a new house? What other things can I do to make a new house safer for allergies? thanks > Well, I guess I should chirp in here as I did some research on pollution in > indoor environments. [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Note: the last two links are from carpet sellers, so the information > > maybe "fine-tuned" to hide the disadvantages of carpet. Hi Andy, Baking in may help a little....but most materials will offgas for quite some time (in some cases as much as a year or more) before they are done. It is worth a shot, but I can't say how much it will help. If you're going to try to "bake in" a house, make sure you get really good air exchange happening when you are doing it. The last thing that you want to do is free all these VOC's and then trap them in the house. Central vacuums are nice in that they don't stir up the air as much were the vacumming is being done, but most of them are vented indoors (and the drive unit is usually located in the furnace room)....any particulates (etc.) they let off can get into the HVAC system and are distributed throughout the house, not just the area being cleaned. If you go central vac, vent it to the outdoors. Same thing about the garages goes for basements, storage closets etc. If you can, avoid paints, solvents etc being stored there, so much the better for indoor air quality.... an outdoor shed is best. Another factor I came across during the background research, but couldn't prove with my work due to the prevalence of central heating in my area, was about baseboard heating. Central heating is nice, but it pulls air in from the whole house and circulates it throught the whole house...anything in one room (like jr. painting a plastic model in his room or refinishing furniture in an attached garage (especially if it is under a room, like so many are these days)) gets shared through the house. This is, according to some of the research I came across, reduced in homes that make use of systems like baseboard heating. Finally...Yes, Sheldon, real hardwod is nice...but bloody expensive where I live. Just my additional $0.02 worth :) Michael Signature*************************************** Michael Halliwell temple2some@shaw.nospam.ca To Reply: remove the "nospam" *************************************** >Finally...Yes, Sheldon, real hardwod is nice...but bloody expensive where I >live. > >Michael Um, Michael, bubbeleh... no one is asking you to grow your own trees... you dumb smarmy bastard. Yes, hardwood flooring is not cheap (no quality floor covering is cheap) but real hardwood flooring is less expensive than laminate, substantially less... and I don't much care where you live, there are tons of internet sites that sell hardwood (check yer ownself), typically at about $3 sq ft, more or less depending which wood/grade, and they don't much care where in the US you live. I just had my kitchen done in brazilian cherry (the entire rest of my house is in white oak, I wanted a contrast in the kitchen), 70 sq yds/$3,600, installed and finished... a gorgeous job (anyone wants a look-see of before and after send me your real addie), I consider that a reasonable cost, less than any other alternative... and most other choices require an underlayment, which can add a lot to the installation cost, hardwood does not need any sub-flooring unless it's put on a slab, then an air space needs to be crated and a moisture barrier added, can be more expensive than the floor, which is why with slabs folks go with [ugli] laminates. I'm positive my installer purchased the materials at a lower price than I could have, which is how he was able to do the installation at a reasonable charge... I wouldn't recommend installing hardwood yourself, there are lots of tricks of the trade I observed, and you'd need lots of very expensive equipment for installing and especially for finishing. The only down side to having hardwood installed to an occupied building is dust from sanding, but if everything is well taped with plastic sheeting it's not too bad, also the job took two weeks, that's how long I was without a kitchen, but the floor is so beautiful all the inconvenience was well worth it A lot of the time was waiting for each of the four coats of finish to cure... with the two part water based polyurethane finish there is no odor whatsoever: http://www.bonakemi.com/consumers/hardwoodfloorfinishing.html Another plus with real hardwood flooring is that it can be refinished at a very nominal cost... so it will truely last a lifetime, usually many lifetimes. Michael is just spamming his business, which obviously doesn't include hardwood flooring... naturally he's not going to agree... ask me if I give a sh.t. ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon ```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." Hi Sheldon, Actually, I'm not in the US....and with the exchange rate, I don't dare order hardwood from the States. Oh, and did I mention that I'm in the engineering field, not flooring sales? Michael Signature*************************************** Michael Halliwell temple2some@shaw.nospam.ca To Reply: remove the "nospam" *************************************** > Hi Andy, > > Baking in may help a little....but most materials will offgas for quite some > time (in some cases as much as a year or more) before they are done. It is > worth a shot, but I can't say how much it will help What about going over the carpets with a carpet cleaner (one of those steam machines) as soon as they are put in? Hi Dulcie, Actually, this is a material problem, not a cleanliness problem. Although the steam cleaning might get rid of any dust or other shipping/installing debris trapped in the carpet, it won't really help much with VOC's...they are actually within the material itself (chemical) rather than trapped between the fibres. ON top of that, most VOC's prefer a gaseous state to an aqueous one so the water doesn't help much either. Just another $0.02 worth, Michael Signature*************************************** Michael Halliwell temple2some@shaw.nospam.ca To Reply: remove the "nospam" *************************************** You brought up a good point about living space above garage. In my case, it is the masterbedroom! I will definitely avoid to store any paint, solvent or gasoline in the garage, and to let car running inside the garage. But will an idle car a concern as well? Thanks > Well, I guess I should chirp in here as I did some research on pollution in > indoor environments. [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Note: the last two links are from carpet sellers, so the information > > maybe "fine-tuned" to hide the disadvantages of carpet. Hi again Andy, I'm assuming that you mean just parking the car in the garage. Well, it can be a concern. The fuel systems in most automobiles is not closed...it has a vent system so that when the car goes from cool to warm, there is someplace for the gasoline vapours to go. If it is parked in a nice, warm garage...well, you get the idea. When the furnace kicks in, the pressure in the house reduces a little and draws all those nice things in from the garage. Just make sure there is good fresh air exchange if you are going to park inside...after all, you don't want a pool of vapours waiting to be drawn in to the rest of the house. Just another $0.02 from me, Michael Halliwell Signature*************************************** Michael Halliwell temple2some@shaw.nospam.ca To Reply: remove the "nospam" *************************************** Yes, I mean just parking the car in the garage. I guess most of the time the car will goes from warm to cool instead of cool to warm. Will that be a problem? Sorry, if the furance kicks in, isn't the pressure of your house should increase? And the opposite is true when the air conditioner is on? By "make sure there is good fresh air exchange", do you mean air exchange in the garage? Isn't that defeat the purpose of insulation in the garage? PS: the garage is not heated. Thanks > Hi again Andy, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Michael Halliwell > Yes, I mean just parking the car in the garage. I guess most of the > time the car will goes from warm to cool instead of cool to warm. > Will that be a problem? Still some potential, but less...then again, there is no way to get rid of all the risks in life other than not living :) Going warm to cool will generally draw air into the gas tank, rather than force vapours out...of course, once the gas and tank have equalized temperature and pressure with the air in the garage, there can be some vapour flow out as the vapour concentration becomes the driving factor. > Sorry, if the furance kicks in, isn't the pressure of your house > should increase? And the opposite is true when the air conditioner is > on? Actually, there are several reasons for this. One is that the furnace is consuming fuel/air and sending its exhaust out a chimney. The pressure will drop in the house until that air can be replaced. With an air conditioner, you are cooling air so it becomes more dense and takes up less space...your house has a fixed volume so,once again, the pressure drops. With lower pressure inside and higher pressure outside, the outside air is forced in through whatever pathways there are. Air movement can also play a factor, but it is a small effect in comparison. > By "make sure there is good fresh air exchange", do you mean air > exchange in the garage? Isn't that defeat the purpose of insulation > in the garage? Not quite. All buildings, garages included, are intended to have a certain rate of indoor air exchange with the outside. If a house were truly "air tight" you'd suffocate after a long enough period of time inside(not recommended :) ). It is recommended to have a minimum air exchange rate of approximately 1 complete air change every 3 hours (or 1/3 of all the air in your house gets replaced with outside air every hour). In a very energy efficient house the rate can be as low as 1air exchange per 20 hours, but homes like that usually need to use mechanical ventilation to keep the house (and people inside) healthy and comfortable. When you take a moment to look at it, it really is just a matter of common sense. If you keep something volatile within the building of the house (attached garage, basement, storage cabinets or what have you) assume that at least a little of it can leak into the air. If it is something you want there (like air fresheners, scent from candles, etc.) then there is no problem; otherwise see if there is a better place to store it (detached garage, shed, etc.). Hope it helps, Michael Halliwell Signature*************************************** Michael Halliwell temple2some@shaw.nospam.ca To Reply: remove the "nospam" *************************************** >(Andy) writes: > >case, it is the masterbedroom! I will definitely avoid to store any >paint, solvent or gasoline in the garage, and to let car running >inside the garage. But will an idle car a concern as well? Never start an auto inside a garage unless the garage door is open, and drive the car outside within one minute... even with the garage door open the auto exhaust fumes can easily be drawn into the house, and into the car... you'd be surprised at how many place a young child into a car seat and then with the auto running they go back into the hosue to retrieve something. Time eludes them and they return many minutes later to find the child sufficated from carbon monoxide fumes. Never leave an unattended auto running, not for even a second,, especially not inside a garage, most especially not with a child strapped in. ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon ```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." > >(Andy) writes: > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > second,, especially not inside a garage, most especially not with a child > strapped in. Good point. I know of two people who have died that way. we have just had laminate floors put in, and my asthma has improved greatly...coincidence, perhaps, but that suits me ! we got quite a chap variety from ronas, and did it ourselves. Good luck. > I always thought hard surface floor (like hard wood, wood-laminated or > cardboard-laminated) are better for people who has allergy problems. > Now I learn that a VOC outgasing can occur with wood floor as well as > carpet. Carpet may help to keep the air pollutants from become > airborne easily. And there is a study from FSEC (see below) to > suggest that weekly vaccum cleaning and humidity control will prevent > dust-mite problem. Is laminated or wood floor still the best choice > for allergy? Or carpet is almost the same now? > > Thanks > > http://www.carpet-schools.com/cornell.htm > http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/Bldg/BAIHP/PUBS/mites/ > http://www.comebacktocarpet.com/media/healthy2.htm > http://www.carpetbuyershandbook.com/mite_allergen_exposure.htm > Note: the last two links are from carpet sellers, so the information > maybe "fine-tuned" to hide the disadvantages of carpet. > I always thought hard surface floor (like hard wood, wood-laminated or > cardboard-laminated) are better for people who has allergy problems. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Thanks > ? Vinyl and ceramic only have made a huge difference for me. Area rugs that can be washed help soften the effect. My allergists no longer advise wood or wood products. Dorothy ? ? ? ? > Blues Ma Blues writes: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Area rugs that can be washed help soften the effect. >My allergists no longer advise wood or wood products. Vinyl outgases practically forever as does it's adhesive, as does the matrix used to set ceramic tile. Everything outgasses, but solid wood flooring outgases least (pure wood and nails)... modern two part water based polyurethane wood flooring finish cures 90% in 4 days, fully cured after 10 days. ---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- ********* "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." Sheldon ```````````` |
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