 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / July 2003Chronic Hyperventilation Syndrome Doesn't Exist
Prove that it does with a real double-blind study. Until then, you have nothing. >Prove that it does with a real double-blind study. Until then, you have >nothing. You don't need a double blind study to prove that Chronic hyperventilation syndrome exists, A Roberts. All it takes is an understanding of elementary physiology combined with some common sense. 1. There is a normal range of CO2 in the blood. Arterial CO2 is considered to be normal when it is between 35 and 45mmHg. This is universally accepted, although the numbers vary slightly depending on the testing equipment. 2. You don't get CO2 much below 20, because those people would be dead. There is a minimum amount of blood CO2 that you have to have to remain alive. 3. What happens to those people who have average CO2 levels between this minimum and the normal range? Those are chronic hyperventilators and they often present with a range of disorders, including asthma, depending on their genetic predisposition. Doctors usually assume that the hyperventilation is caused by the disorder. If you had read the medical scientific literature on Chronic hyperventilation syndrome, references to which I have frequently posted, you would not be making such silly statements. Peter Kolb Biomedical Engineer pkolb@wt.com.au ___________________________________________________ Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm __________________________________________________ >>Prove that it does with a real double-blind study. Until then, you have >>nothing. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >understanding of elementary physiology combined with some common >sense. Yes you do. Otherwise all you have is hot air. The standard is that you demonstrate your theories experimentally. Otherwise, you are just another crackpot with a pet theory. You have had over 40 years to demonstrate your theory - the fact that you have been unable to do is a strong indication that the theory does not describe reality. It's a terrible responsibility - but somebody has to be the Americans. > >Prove that it does with a real double-blind study. Until then, you have > >nothing. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > understanding of elementary physiology combined with some common > sense. Legions of people with an "understanding of elementary physiology" (Including me) disagree. I thought that you were supposed to be a person of science since you emblazon every post with your credentials. So just in this very special case, your pet theory, you are willing to abandon the scientific method. Double-blind is how it gets done, and will remain a crackpot theory until it passes that muster. > >Prove that it does with a real double-blind study. Until then, you have > >nothing. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > understanding of elementary physiology combined with some common > sense. Great, if your so sure that's it's effective treatment just have the study done. Until you do you will never know whether or not it's the treatment or just a placebo effect. http://skepdic.com/placebo.html "In a study of asthmatics, researchers found that they could produce dilation of the airways by simply telling people they were inhaling a bronchiodilator, even when they weren't. Patients suffering pain after wisdom-tooth extraction got just as much relief from a fake application of ultrasound as from a real one, so long as both patient and therapist thought the machine was on." Lane >> You don't need a double blind study to prove that Chronic >> hyperventilation syndrome exists, A Roberts. All it takes is an [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >study done. Until you do you will never know whether or not it's the >treatment or just a placebo effect. It's been done. But you need real scientists to understand the results. >http://skepdic.com/placebo.html > >"In a study of asthmatics, researchers found that they could produce >dilation of the airways by simply telling people they were inhaling a >bronchiodilator, even when they weren't. Great. This clearly proves that we no longer have to give asthmatics bronchodilators, which of course do not improve asthma in the long run and many claim make asthma worse. Doctors can now just issue patients with little aerosol containers filled with air. These should be a lot cheaper since you can't patent air. That's a win-win situation for asthmatics thanks to this remarkable research you quoted. Incidentally, the hyperventilation model explains this phenomenon quite readily. There is a stress associated with not being able to breathe, which makes you want to breathe more. By thinking you're getting help you remove that stress and your breathing is reduced, hence the bronchospasm goes. Some parents can stop their kids having an attack just by calming them down. Conversely, some people get asthma attacks just by thinking they forgot to pack their rescue inhalers. Peter Kolb pkolb@wt.com.au ___________________________________________________ Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm __________________________________________________ >>> You don't need a double blind study to prove that Chronic >>> hyperventilation syndrome exists, A Roberts. All it takes is an [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >It's been done. But you need real scientists to understand the >results. So you admit that you do not understand the results? It's a terrible responsibility - but somebody has to be the Americans. > >> You don't need a double blind study to prove that Chronic > >> hyperventilation syndrome exists, A Roberts. All it takes is an [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Peter Kolb I hope you read the full article I posted and not just the snippet. What you say may be true but there are also times where a bronchiodilators will save lives over the placebo effect. There's also a moral problem with lying to a patient about therapy that may be no more effective than a sugar pill or compressed air. People with asthma need treatment that has been proven in a double blind test it's the way science works and progresses. I do have at my disposal real scientist that can fully understand a double blind test so if you have a link it would be appreciated. I will make no comments myself and rely on verifiably credentialed people only. Here's the full article on The Placebo Effect. (note every asthmatic should read this) http://skepdic.com/placebo.html Lane > I hope you read the full article I posted and not just the snippet. No, I just read the snippet and not the full article. I was being flippant with the suggestion about sticking air into bronchodilator cannisters. I'm sorry I didn't make this obvious. I don't need to read the article because I accept what you said. I have no doubt that the research is valid and the results are the way you presented them. As I tried to discuss in my last post to you, it really fits into the hyperventilation model of asthma which, as you would be aware by now, I subscribe to. >I do have at my disposal real scientist that can fully understand a double >blind test so if you have a link it would be appreciated. I will make no >comments myself and rely on verifiably credentialed people only. I would be really happy to dicuss this with your friend. Please ask him to get in touch with me. The link to the MJA article in question is: http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/xmas98/bowler/bowler.html If he's interested in my comments on it he can find them at: http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/bizarre.htm I was a bit angry at the time I wrote that piece and I guess I need to take some of the steam out of it, which I'll do one of these days. Peter Kolb Biomedical Engineer pkolb@wt.com.au ___________________________________________________ Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm __________________________________________________ |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.