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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / February 2004

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AsthmaStory.com featured by FOX / UPN in LA now online

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Jim Quinlan - 15 Feb 2004 13:56 GMT
For anyone interested, I FINALLY got the tape from FOX in Los Angeles and
now have it streaming on the AsthmaStory.com website.  AsthmaStory.com is a
website that contains research of Dr. David Hahn and others who have
determined there may be a link between the bacteria Chlamydia pneumoniae or
mycoplasma and asthma.  This news story aired in early January 2004 and
yesterday was the first time I saw it.

The point I liked the most was when they interviewed a Lung specialist in LA
who initially thought the idea was crazy.  But then the specialist started
reading the research and agreed that Dr. Hahn could very well be onto
something.   Just go to the AsthmaStory.com website and click on the FOX
logo to go to the video selection page.  You can view the movies in
QuickTime format or Windows Media 9 (free downloads if you don't have it
already installed).  Also select your connection speed for the most
efficient stream.

Jim Quinlan
http://www.AsthmaStory.com
Colin Campbell - 15 Feb 2004 17:06 GMT
>For anyone interested, I FINALLY got the tape from FOX in Los Angeles and
>now have it streaming on the AsthmaStory.com website.  AsthmaStory.com is a
>website that contains research of Dr. David Hahn and others who have
>determined there may be a link between the bacteria Chlamydia pneumoniae or
>mycoplasma and asthma.  This news story aired in early January 2004 and
>yesterday was the first time I saw it.

That's nice.  When this 'link' is actually scientifically proven -
I'll be interested.

IMO, the moment somebody goes to the popular media for stuff like this
- I begin suspecting that they cannot really back things up
scientifically.

No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.
Jim Quinlan - 15 Feb 2004 22:26 GMT
I agree with you and I'll also be glad when science has the rest of the
clues to prove the cause and effect. I know by my experience that the link
exists without a doubt.

And just to keep the record straight, FOX found my website and contacted me
and then Dr. Hahn.  He didn't go to them in case anyone makes assumptions by
your statement.  You could contact the station to verify that if you're
interested.

Jim Quinlan
http://www.AsthmaStory.com

> >For anyone interested, I FINALLY got the tape from FOX in Los Angeles and
> >now have it streaming on the AsthmaStory.com website.  AsthmaStory.com is a
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.
ARoberts - 15 Feb 2004 23:09 GMT
> I agree with you and I'll also be glad when science has the rest of the
> clues to prove the cause and effect. I know by my experience that the link
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Jim Quinlan
> http://www.AsthmaStory.com

Here is the abstract of a 2002 study by National Jewish:

Mycoplasma pneumoniae and Chlamydia pneumoniae in asthma: effect of
clarithromycin.

Kraft M, Cassell GH, Pak J, Martin RJ.

Department of Medicine, National Jewish Medical and Research Center and the
University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, Denver, CO 80206, USA.

STUDY OBJECTIVES: To determine the effect of clarithromycin therapy in
patients with asthma. DESIGN: Randomized, double blind, placebo-controlled
trial. SETTING: A tertiary referral center. PATIENTS OR PARTICIPANTS:
Fifty-five subjects with chronic, stable asthma recruited from the general
Denver, CO, community. INTERVENTIONS: Patients underwent airway evaluation
for Mycoplasma pneumoniae and Chlamydia pneumoniae by polymerase chain
reaction (PCR) and culture, followed by treatment with clarithromycin, 500
bid, or placebo for 6 weeks. MEASUREMENTS AND RESULTS: Outcome variables
were lung function, sinusitis as measured by CT, and the inflammatory
mediators tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-alpha, interleukin (IL)-2, IL-4, IL-5,
and IL-12 messenger RNA (mRNA) measured via in situ hybridization, in airway
biopsies, and BAL. Mycoplasma or chlamydia were detected by PCR in 31 of 55
asthmatics. Treatment resulted in a significant improvement in the FEV(1),
but only in the PCR-positive subjects (2.50 +/- 0.16 to 2.69 +/- 0.19 L,
mean +/- SEM; p = 0.05). This was not appreciated in the PCR-negative
subjects (2.59 +/- 0.24 to 2.54 +/- 0.18 L, p = 0.85) or the PCR-positive or
PCR-negative subjects who received placebo. Sinus CTs revealed no change in
sinusitis with clarithromycin treatment. In situ hybridization revealed no
significant difference in baseline airway tissue or BAL-mediator expression
between the PCR-positive and PCR-negative subjects. However, the
PCR-positive subjects who received clarithromycin demonstrated a reduction
in TNF-alpha (p = 0.006), IL-5 (p = 0.007), and IL-12 (p = 0.004) mRNA in
BAL and TNF-alpha mRNA in airway tissue (p = 0.0009). The PCR-negative
subjects who received clarithromycin only demonstrated a reduction in
TNF-alpha (p = 0.01) and IL-12 (p = 0.002) mRNA in BAL and TNF-alpha mRNA in
airway tissue (p = 0.004). There were no significant differences in cytokine
expression in those subjects who received placebo. CONCLUSIONS: These
observations support the hypothesis that clarithromycin therapy improves
lung function, but only in those subjects with positive PCR findings for M
pneumoniae or C pneumoniae.

Publication Types:
 a.. Clinical Trial
 b.. Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 12065339 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] +
Joy - 16 Feb 2004 01:41 GMT
> > I agree with you and I'll also be glad when science has the rest of the
> > clues to prove the cause and effect. I know by my experience that the link
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
>
> PMID: 12065339 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] +

There have been dozens of articles published over the last ten years that
Colin has determined he can to ignore. In really good publications too.  So,
I just don't think you can convince him. It really doesn't matter. He is one
person. Everyone else is now onboard.
Joy - 16 Feb 2004 12:32 GMT
Oh, forgot. Of course the B*  people will disagree.

> There have been dozens of articles published over the last ten years that
> Colin has determined he can to ignore. In really good publications too.  So,
> I just don't think you can convince him. It really doesn't matter. He is one
> person. Everyone else is now onboard.
Richard Friedel - 18 Feb 2004 07:39 GMT
.........
> There have been dozens of articles published over the last ten years that
> Colin has determined he can to ignore. In really good publications too.  So,
> I just don't think you can convince him. It really doesn't matter. He is one
> person. Everyone else is now onboard.

Joy,

A Medline search for related artiicles produced the following.

1. Kraft M, Cassell GH, Pak J, Martin RJ. (the artiicle hunted up by
A. Roberts)
    Mycoplasma pneumoniae and Chlamydia pneumoniae in asthma: effect of
clarithromycin.
Chest. 2002 Jun;121(6):1782-8.

2:     Martin RJ, Kraft M, Chu HW, Berns EA, Cassell GH.    
    A link between chronic asthma and chronic infection.
J Allergy Clin Immunol. 2001 Apr;107(4):595-601.

3:     Kraft M, Cassell GH, Henson JE, Watson H, Williamson J, Marmion
BP, Gaydos CA, Martin RJ.
    Detection of Mycoplasma pneumoniae in the airways of adults with
chronic asthma.
Am J Respir Crit Care Med. 1998 Sep;158(3):998-1001. .

The full text of 1 and 3 can be downloaded by anybody via Medline
without any sort of subscriptioon.

As for Colin, it seems at times that he is too much interested in
anti-quack activities.  Discussion at a different level might mean
that crudities would be ignored automatically.  But then the group
might be of less interest for the average asthmatic.  Richard Friedel
Joy - 18 Feb 2004 09:38 GMT
> As for Colin, it seems at times that he is too much interested in
> anti-quack activities.  Discussion at a different level might mean
> that crudities would be ignored automatically.  But then the group
> might be of less interest for the average asthmatic.  Richard Friedel

I suppose over the years he has seen so MANY scams, he just doesn't bother
to read the evidence anymore. The time comes though when you can no longer
ignore the gathered evidence. Well, this discovery won't help every
asthmatic, so there is still work to be done.

Personally, I am getting ready to leave. I have been off the antibiotics for
6 weeks now and have used no asthma meds in a month. I will admit I was SOB
a couple of mornings 2 weeks ago and just waited it out. I just am SO HAPPY
with the thought that I may be able to walk away from asthma. I can't begin
to tell you!

Joy
SJF - 18 Feb 2004 18:15 GMT
> > As for Colin, it seems at times that he is too much interested in
> > anti-quack activities.  Discussion at a different level might mean
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Joy
================
This cited study is interesting and believable to this asthmatic layman.
However, I would not be hasty to downplay the immense value of Colin's
contributions to this newsgroup.

Re the study:

It shows "significant" improvement in the infected group which is sizable.
"Significant" as used in many studies means only small or infrequent
benefits.  Will the real benefits to the infected asthmatics be large, will
they be permanent, will they eliminate the need for methods used under
current guidelines?  Seems likely that, after more study and experience,
some modifications of the current guidelines may be warranted.  Should the
average physician modify his approach at the present time?  Seems that is
largely what the current discussion here is all about.  Good question!

SJF
Joy - 18 Feb 2004 19:56 GMT
> > > As for Colin, it seems at times that he is too much interested in
> > > anti-quack activities.  Discussion at a different level might mean
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> SJF
SJF

The doctors who have been studying this say it will be "more than half" -
not a small percent. Your chances of being in the right half go up if you
have adult onset, more coughing than wheezing, onset after a respiratory
infection............If you have been asthmatic say since age 2 and have
allergies, you are much less likely to be in the half that will benefit.
Certainly the guidelines will have to be changed. But the change is several
years off. Two of the studies will conclude in 2006, so you do the math. The
average physician will operate under protocols. If you think it will benefit
you and you don't feel you can wait (your asthma is out of control), you
will have to find a willing doc. I did not find a willing doc. I did look.
My prescription was the result of another medical condition.

Joy
NorthShoreCEO - 19 Feb 2004 01:35 GMT
>From: s3e0101@mailin.lrz-muenchen.de  (Richard Friedel)

>Joy,
>
>A Medline search for related artiicles produced the following.....

Richard, Joy and I have posted many links to such studies here.  Several are
included on the www.asthmastory.com site.  We've emailed even more links out to
individuals who have written us.  Many of the "arguments" that have been raised
are addressed here:

http://www.asthmastory.com/faq.asp

It's easy for people whose asthma is well controlled to sit back and tell those
who are suffering that they need to dismiss something that may change their
lives for the better.  Thank God I didn't believe some of the naysayers here
and decided to do research on what Jim Quinlans was stating, or I'd be going
into year 34 of having asthma.  Instead,  I'm living life with energy, I'm
asthma free, off all meds for 8 months, no winter illness despite colds and flu
my children have had and I'm consistently blowing 750 on my peak flow meter.
Oh, I also have a child who no longer has exercise induced asthma and my good
friends son no longer has asthma.  All because I refused to jump on the
bandwagon of flaming Jim Quinlan and Dr. Hahn and decided to do research and
make an informed decision.

Congratulations, Joy, may your good health continue!
Joy - 19 Feb 2004 13:57 GMT
> >From: s3e0101@mailin.lrz-muenchen.de  (Richard Friedel)
>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Congratulations, Joy, may your good health continue!

Thanks M, I feel great!

I wanted you to look at this web page - you can logon for free. I'm not sure
this is correct about PND, but I saw it and thought it might be of interest
to you. I did a Medline search at one time (maybe 6 mo ago) and found one
study (very small- only 5 kids) that was completely negative for the asthma
culpret bugs in the sinuses. It would explain the link we(asthmatics with
polyps) tend to have though.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/463576_4

Joy
NorthShoreCEO - 19 Feb 2004 16:13 GMT
>I wanted you to look at this web page - you can logon for free. I'm not sure
>this is correct about PND, but I saw it and thought it might be of interest
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Joy

Thanks, Joy - I'll take a look at it later today.  Glad you're doing so well!!!
Please drop me a line when you get a moment as I've lost your new email
address.  Sorry!!!
CBI - 19 Feb 2004 04:45 GMT
> There have been dozens of articles published over the last ten years
> that Colin has determined he can to ignore. In really good
> publications too.  So, I just don't think you can convince
him. It
> really doesn't matter. He is one person. Everyone else is
now onboard.

I wouldn't say that even most are on board - much less
"everyone."

I've been meaning to right a faq about this for some time
and this seems like a good place to try a first draft so
I'll give it a go befre going off to bed. .

1) Is asthma caused by an infection?

Maybe for some people. Chances are that asthma is not one
disease and that it has several different causes at play to
varying degrees to different people and even the same people
over time. There is some evidence linking asthma to
infections in some people but the issue is not proved yet.
When the populations are highly selected for people to be at
risk (adult onset after a serious infection) the percentage
seems to be about 50%. In studies with less specific
selection it has been in the 10-30% range. My personal
prediction, based on experience with similar circumstances
much more than data, is that when they start to screen large
populations of asthmatics the percentage will be less than
that, possibly even zero (but I also think it will be
something above zero).

2) Can treating the infection cure the asthma?

Probably not for most asthmatics but maybe for a few. As I
said above I find it doubtful that an infectious link will
be found in the majority of asthmatics. Even then, for many
it will probably turn out to be one of several factors and
so eradicating the infection will only provide a partial
cure. Also, there is the possibility that even if the
infection is the original trigger that eradicating it will
not help with the symptoms as they may be due to some other
change, like an immune reaction, that will not so easily go
away. And again, this whole theory shows some promise but it
is not yet proved. Others with similar early support and
biologic plausibilty have failed to pan out.

3) If I decide to try antibiotics how should it be done?

Not at all determined The proposed organisms would be
expected to be killed by several several different
antibiotics and several have been tried. Azithromycin seems
to be the most studied but there may be cheaper alternatives
that one would guess should work (and some have some samll
studies). It does seem likely that conventional doses will
be effective but that the course will need to be prolonged -
at least 6 weeks, probably more like 12, and possibly even
longer.

4) Why not try?

There are several reasons:

a - Cost. The courses of antibiotics being studied now would
cost at least hundreds, and possibly thousands of dollars.
It may be hard to get insurance carriers to pay for this.
This is especially an issue if the money used to buy the
antibiotics is taken from money used to do things known to
improve health or lifestyle.

b - Side effects. Diarrhea, allergy, and GI upset, and other
gut infections would be the most common ones but other rare
ones include sever skin reactions, agranulocytosis (low
white cell counts), and other severe reactions. The class of
antibiotics usually used also has special concerns for
pregnant women.

c - Diagnostic uncertainty. Asthma naturally waxes and wanes
in severity. If you are treated for a prolonged course the
chances are that at some point the asthma will get better
through chance alone and you will be tempted to attribute it
to the antibiotics. Then when it later gets worse again the
temptation will be to go back on the antibiotics again or to
prolong their course. This could end up with you in a cycle
where you are reluctant to ever get off of them despite the
fact that they are probably doing nothing for you.

d - Therapeuitc uncertainty. Right now, even if you assume
that the asthma is from an infection, no one knows how to
treat it. Researchers are still looking at differnet drugs,
dosages, and durations of treatment. You may be taking the
risks with little chance of success or taking more risk than
is needed. The answers may be more clear in the another year
or two.

e - Why rock the boat? If your asthma is under control why
do anything to change that?  (See bolow for more on this)

5) Should I give it a try?

For most asthmatics I would say no. The "conventional" meds
have been proved to work,  prevent long term lung damage,
and are safe when used in "normal" doses. If you have a
classic history for asthma such as onset at a young age, a
family history of asthma or allergies, or other allergic
conditions (rhinitis, eczema, atopic dermatitis, food
intolerances, etc.) it is unlikely that your asthma is from
an infection. If your asthma is well controlled on moderate
doses of meds then it just doesn't seem worth the risks to
me.

If your asthma is so difficult to control that you have to
take high doses of inhaled steroids or frequent bursts of
oral prednisone, and especially if it is still poorly
conrolled despite these, then the risks from "conventional"
medications is substantially higher and may warrant
considering it. Also, if you lack the classic history and
your symptoms started with a respiratory infection that just
never seemed to completely go away, especially as an adult,
then you may be more likely to benefit. If you decide to do
it I would make a pitch to try to do so in the a research
study so that your experiences can help to clarify some of
these issues.
doris@imnevereverwrong.com - 19 Feb 2004 10:40 GMT
>I've been meaning to right a faq about this for some time
>and this seems like a good place to try a first draft so
>I'll give it a go befre going off to bed.

Hi CBI

You and I almost never agree on stuff. However toward the end of your
post you finally made some sense to me. However, I've added my
thoughts to your first draft.

>1) Is asthma caused by an infection?

Some people who have infections are misdiagnosed with asthma. However,
some of these people actually have infections in their lungs.
Antibiotics may help these people.

>Maybe for some people. Chances are that asthma is not one
>disease and that it has several different causes at play to
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>2) Can treating the infection cure the asthma?

For true life long asthmatics probably not. For misdiagnosed
asthmatics who have infections in their lungs, it's worth a try.

>Probably not for most asthmatics but maybe for a few. As I
>said above I find it doubtful that an infectious link will
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>3) If I decide to try antibiotics how should it be done?

To start with have appropriate tests for C Pn and M Pn.

>Not at all determined The proposed organisms would be
>expected to be killed by several several different
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>4) Why not try?

Well yes, perhaps you could. People with chronic UTIs are often
treated with long term antibiotics. Why ought a  lung infection that
is chronic and long term not be treated similarly?

>There are several reasons:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>antibiotics is taken from money used to do things known to
>improve health or lifestyle.

But when you have no life because you are so debilitated by your
infection then maybe the cost could be worth it to you

>b - Side effects. Diarrhea, allergy, and GI upset, and other
>gut infections would be the most common ones but other rare
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>e - Why rock the boat? If your asthma is under control why
>do anything to change that?  (See bolow for more on this)

My "asthma" wasn't under control. The meds esp. the preventers did
nothing for me.

>5) Should I give it a try?
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>never seemed to completely go away, especially as an adult,
>then you may be more likely to benefit.

CBI you shock me. This last sentence is what I've been waiting for you
to say for ages. Thank you sincerely.

If you decide to do
>it I would make a pitch to try to do so in the a research
>study so that your experiences can help to clarify some of
>these issues.

Usually only possible if you live in a BIG city and have the resources
to go and do whatever the researchers want. If like me, you have small
children, work and live in a small city with no such studies you are
SOL.

I hope we can get somewhere with this info. It really *is* time.

H (apologies for any sp. errors.)
NorthShoreCEO - 19 Feb 2004 16:21 GMT
>From: doris@imnevereverwrong.com

>CBI you shock me. This last sentence is what I've been waiting for you
>to say for ages.

Rumor has it the other pitbull is gone.  How timely this recent epiphany is.  
CBI - 19 Feb 2004 16:58 GMT
> >1) Is asthma caused by an infection?
>
> Some people who have infections are misdiagnosed with asthma. However,
> some of these people actually have infections in their lungs.
> Antibiotics may help these people.

I don't think it is clear yet whether this is a misdiagnosis or just a
reversible cause. I'm not sure there is much difference between not
fiding the infection and not finding any other triggers of the asthma.

> >3) If I decide to try antibiotics how should it be done?
>
> To start with have appropriate tests for C Pn and M Pn.

Yes - as I mentioned at the start of the post I had been meaning to
type something like this up for some time. I almost put it off again
but as it is I have not been getting back to read this group regularly
so I figured that by the time I got back to it the conversation might
be completely cold and the post kind of out of the blue. It was up
past how late I had been intending to be up so this was kind of a
quick version off the top of my head. As soon as I sent it and shut
down the computer other things came to mind.

The problem with recommending testing is that it is so unclear as to
what tests to do. The only ones that have show real accuracy have been
PCR tests on secretions, usually obtained by bronchoscopy. Serum tests
can be hard to interpret because they may have a hard time
disctinguishing active from old infections and a large part of the
population will likely be positive.

> >4) Why not try?
>
> Well yes, perhaps you could. People with chronic UTIs are often
> treated with long term antibiotics. Why ought a  lung infection that
> is chronic and long term not be treated similarly?

Many conditions are treated with long term antibiotics so it certainly
is not some new, radical, or incredibly dangerous concept. However, it
should be done with an eye towards the risks and benefits. The benefit
of preventing recurrent UTI's, which can cause kidney damage and blood
stream infections, is substantial and fairly well known.

Another factor came to me later - It may make things worse. The
history of H. Pylori and gastritis/ulcers is a good example. When the
link was first discovered there was great enthusiasm for treating the
infection. Companies developed office based detection kits and a lot
of testing and treatment was done. As time went on experience showed
that not all ulcers were from infections and that sometimes treating
the infections in the absence of an ulcer worsened symptoms of
gastritis and heartburn. It is still worth testing for andtreating the
infection is some situations but we are much more focused in when we
do it now and probably did a disservice to a lot of people before we
learned more.

> >If your asthma is so difficult to control that you have to
> >take high doses of inhaled steroids or frequent bursts of
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> CBI you shock me. This last sentence is what I've been waiting for you
> to say for ages. Thank you sincerely.

Then you need to read more regularly. I have said it several times
over the last year or so. Also, I would point out that all of your
comments really only apply to someone who is poorly controlled on
maximal, or supramaximal, conventional asthma therapy. For most
asthmatics they do not apply. I don't think it makes sense for a
person who is well controlled or porrly controlled on a sub par
regimen whow ould just kind of like to get rid of the meds to embark
on this right now. When the testing and treatment issues are worked
out we may get there.

Signature

CBI, MD

Joy - 19 Feb 2004 14:14 GMT
"CBI" <00>
> I've been meaning to right a faq about this for some time
> and this seems like a good place to try a first draft so
[quoted text clipped - 108 lines]
> study so that your experiences can help to clarify some of
> these issues.

I have some experience with this so I would like to respond to the part
about staying on antibiotics "This could end up with you in a cycle where
you are reluctant to ever get off of them despite the fact that they are
probably doing nothing for you".

It isn't like that at all. You will  have to be on asthma meds until the
antibiotics kick in - for most people that seems to be at least 2 months but
it clearly is longer for others. The reduction in symptoms are what guide
you in knowing when to start coming off the antibiotics. People would only
be reluctant to get off them because they don't want to think they are in
the group who didn't benefit. But those people won't be helped by
antibiotics. THEY STUDIED THAT AT NJH already. You know, they did the lung
biopsies and then they put everyone on antibiotics in the study and the
people without the infection got NO RESULT as you would have expected. It
isn't cyclical at all. It was 56 percent had the infection and got better
(not cured because at the time NJH was only issuing 6 weeks of antibiotics).
Friends of mine who go there have now been issued 6 months of antibiotics.

And I guess I should respond to this statement.
."My personal prediction, based on experience with similar circumstances
much more than data, is that when they start to screen large populations of
asthmatics the percentage will be less than that, possibly even zero (but I
also think it will be
something above zero)".

The doctors doing the research on this for the last 10 years plus are saying
it will be greater than half. CBI isn't doing research on this that I know
of and I would suspect he doesn't really know when he says that is likely
only a few people who will benefit. I think he should pitch in on a research
study so that his actual experiences can help to clarify some of these
issues instead of speculating here. Which is what he is in fact doing since
he demonstrates yet again that he hasn't really read all the information we
have posted here in the past.
Joy - 19 Feb 2004 16:36 GMT
> There are several reasons:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> antibiotics is taken from money used to do things known to
> improve health or lifestyle.

Need I point out the cost of years and years of asthma needs? That doesn't
even cover the opportunity cost (econ 101) of waiting for the doc to give
you the prescription, taking the prescriptions, running up to the phamacy to
fill the prescription...............need I go on? Don't you think this
through before you go off on these indefensible tangents?

> b - Side effects. Diarrhea, allergy, and GI upset, and other
> gut infections would be the most common ones but other rare
> ones include sever skin reactions, agranulocytosis (low
> white cell counts), and other severe reactions. The class of
> antibiotics usually used also has special concerns for
> pregnant women.

I had no side effects from Zithromax, but I had really unbearable side
effects from inhaled steroids and albuterol. So, just can't agree with you
here either! My doctors just said they didn't normally see people who had
the side effects that I had. As if that was supposed to make it better for
me since to them it was no OK that I would be stuck on there terrible
medicines.. Actually, taking steroids isn't recommended for people with
infections. I will have to find the web page someone gave me about how
steroids in fact knock the immune system back. Not what we are looking for
when we are trying to fight an infection.

Will come back with more later as I have time.
CBI - 19 Feb 2004 22:54 GMT
> > There are several reasons:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Need I point out the cost of years and years of asthma needs?

Which you will still incur if the antibiotics are not effective. I
agree that if the treatment works the total costs will be reduced.

> Don't you think this
> through before you go off on these indefensible tangents?

Again with the personal attacks?

> > b - Side effects. Diarrhea, allergy, and GI upset, and other
> > gut infections would be the most common ones but other rare
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> I had no side effects from Zithromax, but I had really unbearable side
> effects from inhaled steroids and albuterol.

This is not the norm. Most people have mild side effects from the
antibiotics (but less commonly potentially serious ones) with little
to none from the inhaled meds. I am freely admitting that different
people will have different experiences and that there is no one size
fits all answer.

> Actually, taking steroids isn't recommended for people with
> infections. I will have to find the web page someone gave me about how
> steroids in fact knock the immune system back. Not what we are looking for
> when we are trying to fight an infection.

Actually, it is much more complicated than that. Steroids do decrease
some parts of the immune response but they affect the parts
responsible for asthma and allergy much more than they affect the
parts that fight bacterial infections. Clearly, if you have no need
for the steroids you are better of without them as they do have some
effect but if you are having asthma symptoms the help they give the
asthma greatly outweighs the hindrance to the immune system.

Signature

CBI, MD

 
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