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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / January 2004asthma reaching epidemic proportions
http://asthma.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://story.news.yahoo.com/ news%3Ftmpl=story%26u=/ap/20031217/ap%5Fon%5Fhe%5Fme/new%5Fjersey%5Fasthma%5F1 Of course the NJ turnpike has more trucks traveling on that stretch then anywhere in the US . Doesn't help. Ask President if he cares? I live in Pa and it aint much better. Sad it has to be printed in some link and not on tv news. >Of course the NJ turnpike has more trucks traveling on that stretch then >anywhere in the US . Doesn't help. Ask President if he cares? I live in Pa >and it aint much better. Sad it has to be printed in some link and not on tv >news. And what's your solution? (And more importantly what is the _price_ of your solution?) "It's not American foreign policy, or the plight of the Palestinians, or America's longstanding support for Israel. A group of people with money and weaponry have simply decided that we, as a civilization, are unfit to live, and want, eventally, to exterminate us." 'Christian Century' magazine Well Colin I know you seem to be a Republican who may or maynot have asthma and to me its much more then the status quo that Republicans have been known to suggest from time to time as the reason for our complaints. You know its the democrats bogus cries and there is no global warming or anything different then 15 years ago when the air was much dirtier.Well asthma numbers and the major increase is the reason I don't buy that crap. I or you may like Bush but this policy with environment and utility rules is killing people . To show you the power someone with credibility has or to show you the power Bush has over on people, he still has majority of votes even when millions have asthma now that didn't have it before. Bush is marketable and believable and so if a nation wants to go down with him thats doable. This is why they pay salesman much more then worker bees. I totally disagree with his environmental issues and to me it should be more of a political issue and unless he does something I will work as hard as I can to see him lose? Whats the cost? I know ? Whats the cost of disability and lost wages ? Whats the cost of lost trust in people ? Some think the loss of these things would far outnumber the loss a power plant would have to make to put more controls on its equipment or car companies to make better viable fuel alternatives. We have to conclude that even violence might be connected if people are too sick to care about doing the right things. Or if inner city youth can't get clean air to help themselves overcome what they already have to overcome to have decent goals and families.Its all connected! This is the only issue I really take exception strongly with Bush administration > >Of course the NJ turnpike has more trucks traveling on that stretch then > >anywhere in the US . Doesn't help. Ask President if he cares? I live in Pa [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > want, eventally, to exterminate us." > 'Christian Century' magazine Colin writes: >> And what's your solution? (And more importantly what is the >> _price_ of your solution?) > Well Colin I know you seem to be a Republican who may or maynot have > asthma and to me its much more then the status quo that Republicans > have been known to suggest from time to time as the reason for our > complaints. No one, not Barry or Richard or Sheldon or Joy or NorthShoreCEO, has ever questioned whether Colin has asthma, so your flame breaks new ground. Congratulations. I notice that you have failed to address his question and instead have chosen to attack his politics. Changing the subject is always a great idea when you can't answer. ObAsthma: new Honeywell 17400 HEPA-filtered air cleaner for Christmas. Haven't set it running yet since I feel obligated to thoroughly clean the room it will be in, and the weather's been too sunny to clean.  SignatureAlison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid. (650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ I don't know which of our many enemies we ought to defy, but let us defy someone. -- Joseph Chamberlain, early 20th century British Minister "Alison Chaiken" <alison+gnus20031227T165528@dailyplanet.dontspam.wsrcc.com > wrote in message news:x6pte97o6d.fsf@scoville.wsrcc.com... > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > ever questioned whether Colin has asthma, so your flame breaks new > ground. Congratulations. \ Well thankyou young lady. Its great that you assume everyone who comes to this group lives here and knows each other as well as you do. I notice that you have failed to address > his question And I notice your a bit paranoid .Uh I said the cost of getting utility companies to make the necessary changes and for car companies to utilize alternative fuels might be less then the costs of disability and lost wages and productivity , not mentioning the other correlations to inner city youth who might not get the help they need to sustain change because of added physical health problems. "and instead have chosen to attack his politics. " Changing > the subject is always a great idea when you can't answer. Not only was it a great idea , It was planned way way in advance but you caught on to it too too early , way way before it had a chance to age and mellow. If I only knew. > ObAsthma: new Honeywell 17400 HEPA-filtered air cleaner for Christmas. > Haven't set it running yet since I feel obligated to thoroughly clean > the room it will be in, and the weather's been too sunny to clean. Great let us know when your done cleaning. > "Alison Chaiken" <alison+gnus20031227T165528@dailyplanet.dontspam.wsrcc.com > > wrote in message news:x6pte97o6d.fsf@scoville.wsrcc.com... [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Well thankyou young lady. Its great that you assume everyone who comes to > this group lives here and knows each other as well as you do. That's an excellent point--one should get to know what they're talking about before launching an attack. I guess ARoberts the fact that I said Collin May or maynot, be as important to you then if a Presidents Policy is killing thousands of people or making them very sick . I do think its kind of contradictory though to care about asthma but not care from whence it came ? That link showed a correlation for many people to their connection to a dreaded disease. > > "Alison Chaiken" > <alison+gnus20031227T165528@dailyplanet.dontspam.wsrcc.com [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > That's an excellent point--one should get to know what they're talking about > before launching an attack. > I guess ARoberts the fact that I said Collin May or maynot, be as > important to you then if a Presidents Policy is killing thousands of people > or making them very sick . I do think its kind of contradictory though to > care about asthma but not care from whence it came ? That link showed a > correlation for many people to their connection to a dreaded disease. Accuracy always counts, whether deciding whom to escoriate, or in the propounding of theories of disease. Since my adult-onset asthma started during the Clinton administration, should he and his policies be considered to be the cause? Unfortunately, asthma is too complicated a process, and appears in too many forms to reduce it to any one convenient causative model. >Accuracy always counts, whether deciding whom to escoriate, or in the >propounding of theories of disease. Since my adult-onset asthma started >during the Clinton administration, should he and his policies be considered >to be the cause? Perhaps, if the moniker is hyperventilation syndrome... > >Accuracy always counts, whether deciding whom to escoriate, or in the > >propounding of theories of disease. Since my adult-onset asthma started > >during the Clinton administration, should he and his policies be considered > >to be the cause? > > Perhaps, if the moniker is hyperventilation syndrome... Ah, yes...Moniker Lewinski One convenient cause ? Ok so the cancer connection to smoking can also be caused by workplace or food or radon, do we dish the smoking - cancer connection? I don't think so. > > I guess ARoberts the fact that I said Collin May or maynot, be as > > important to you then if a Presidents Policy is killing thousands of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Unfortunately, asthma is too complicated a process, and appears in too many > forms to reduce it to any one convenient causative model. > One convenient cause ? Ok so the cancer connection to smoking can also be > caused by workplace or food or radon, do we dish the smoking - cancer > connection? I don't think so. No one is suggesting discarding anything; it's just that I believe that you are trying to turn a medical/scientific issue into a political issue (without success). without success is certainly a big question mark. When asked if environment issues played on their concerns in last presidental election , you might get a different story A Roberts. I think this is one reason the President lost lots of Mid Atlantic States. I think it is a political issue at least pollution and asthma should be . Again if you want to bury your head in the sand and watch as 30 million have this illness without seeing the implications , you have no right to complain about asthma. I would just take your meds like good zombies. > > One convenient cause ? Ok so the cancer connection to smoking can also > be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > are trying to turn a medical/scientific issue into a political issue > (without success). > without success is certainly a big question mark. When asked if environment > issues played on their concerns in last presidental election , you might get [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > implications , you have no right to complain about asthma. I would just take > your meds like good zombies. Then you're not taking meds? Why are you here then? Ah yes, you have a political agenda, not a support agenda. You sound like a shill for the DNC, so into the kill-file with the rest of the mission-posters. >> without success is certainly a big question mark. When asked if >> environment issues played on their concerns in last presidental [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > shill for the DNC, so into the kill-file with the rest of the > mission-posters. Sounds like good advice to me. It is interesting to see how far he tries to take a single stat and how fast he is to impune anyone who expresses doubts. I'm not fan of GWB's environmental policies, but the real joke is that everything this guy has been talking about has been going on for multiple administrations - Dem and Rep. -- CBI, MD "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide > >> without success is certainly a big question mark. When asked if > >> environment issues played on their concerns in last presidental [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > everything this guy has been talking about has been going on for multiple > administrations - Dem and Rep. Exactly. He seems to think that GWB invented pollution. I'm not a fan of GWB's environmental stances either, and feel that he is much too cozy with the energy guys, but resent "straw man", simplistic political diatribes that smack of (not so) hidden agendas. Yes its hidden, a conspiracy . Yeah trying to find out why people are dying is a hidden conspiracy to stop your evolution in enjoying your pain.? Do I have that straight? Am I close? Its a conspiracy to try to stop this illness or find ways to educate people about it but its not a conspiracy when many people know these studies even exist let alone tv or radio talks about it. . My views politically are independent. I have called the Presidents views lame but I meant to say I do agree with some of his policies but definitely > > >> without success is certainly a big question mark. When asked if > > >> environment issues played on their concerns in last presidental [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > the energy guys, but resent "straw man", simplistic political diatribes > that smack of (not so) hidden agendas. when many people don't know they exist ..... meant to say > Yes its hidden, a conspiracy . Yeah trying to find out why people are dying > is a hidden conspiracy to stop your evolution in enjoying your pain.? Do I [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > the energy guys, but resent "straw man", simplistic political diatribes > > that smack of (not so) hidden agendas. Yes but obviously you haven't seen or cared to read the reasons why asthma is not improving. This administration has stymied ways to stop pollution.when others didn't .Thats a whole new topic. First the studies were not there, now its because others were not doing anything about it also. And its my problem I care about this from keep happening? Thats what your concerned about? Is it any wonder? Its well known why. Yes its my fault.I am sure. There is just something so special about people wanting support in their illness without caring how they got it or if it will continue. Isn't it great to have a brain and not use it? > >> without success is certainly a big question mark. When asked if > >> environment issues played on their concerns in last presidental [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." > -Andre Gide > >> without success is certainly a big question mark. When asked if > >> environment issues played on their concerns in last presidental [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Sounds like good advice to me. It is interesting to see how far he tries to > take a single stat and how fast he is to impune anyone who expresses doubts. Single stat ? I posted fourlinks and there are hundreds more and your a Doctor? What a surprise! Wait were you able to follow the posting Doc? Was it in right order for you ? LOL > I'm not fan of GWB's environmental policies, but the real joke is that > everything this guy has been talking about has been going on for multiple [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." > -Andre Gide > >> without success is certainly a big question mark. When asked if > >> environment issues played on their concerns in last presidental [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > everything this guy has been talking about has been going on for multiple > administrations - Dem and Rep. Single stat ? I posted four links and there are hundreds more and your a Doctor? What a surprise! Wait were you able to follow the posting Doc? Was it in right order for you ? About going on for a long time. Most Democrats are the ones that have done things for pollution. This one in office has not listened to any advice. His neglect of the environment is abhorrent. I am sure the Dems would have done more then this one, which in effect allows drilling in alaska and allows more pollution then we already have which is affecting millions of people . For instance a winter day , and the particulate rate is moderate , enough so to do damage to people (even the epa that maintains the site admits to that) . So what has this President done to minimize the dangers? > -- > CBI, MD > > "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." > -Andre Gide "Alison Chaiken" <alison+gnus20031227T165528@dailyplanet.dontspam.wsrcc.com > wrote in message news:x6pte97o6d.fsf@scoville.wsrcc.com... > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Haven't set it running yet since I feel obligated to thoroughly clean > the room it will be in, and the weather's been too sunny to clean. Incredible. NSCEO has left the building and I only occasionally stop by. My personal opinion is that Colin does have asthma. Who else would spend the time to look into it as he has. I have found my answer. That hardly cures all asthmatics. There are the other half who have not had an answer. I personally won't address his politics. When I moved from Atl, Clinton was in office. But I am clearly adversely effected by high ozone days. I agree that asthma numbers are significantly increasing. However, I really don't think it's the air quality that's causing asthma to develop in people. I would classify myself as an environmentalist and do not agree with many of Bush's policies so I'm not siding with him or the Republicans. It's going to be awhile before research and studies prove it, but I firmly believe that science will connect a direct link to asthma and several bacteria that can be (and are) easily spread. The bacteria Chlamydia pneumoniae and mycoplasma are several that seem to be on the rise and in many studies prove to be a direct link to asthma. My http://www.AsthmaStory.com website has a lot of research and information that backs up these suspicions. These are some nasty bacteria. Recently I spent some time with Dr. David Hahn (I posted a video interview of Dr. Hahn on my website) who mentioned that researchers are currently studying the effect of these bacteria in the tissue of the lungs and are confirming the asthma link. However it will be some time before these studies and results are conclusive. And I agree .... Bush doesn't seem to give a care about the environment or American jobs and is too busy representing big business ..... but that's another subject for another forum. Jim Quinlan http://www.AsthmaStory.com http://forum.AsthmaStory.com http://asthma.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://story.news.yahoo.com/ news%3Ftmpl=story%26u=/ap/20031217/ap%5Fon%5Fhe%5Fme/new%5Fjersey%5Fasthma%5F1 > Of course the NJ turnpike has more trucks traveling on that stretch then > anywhere in the US . Doesn't help. Ask President if he cares? I live in Pa > and it aint much better. Sad it has to be printed in some link and not on tv > news. > I agree that asthma numbers are significantly increasing. However, I really > don't think it's the air quality that's causing asthma to develop in people. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > asthma link. However it will be some time before these studies and results > are conclusive. Clearly from my post posts, everyone knows I agree. However, the poster is living in CDC country and is unlikely to get antibiotics (even though I have antibiotics) due to your information and my contacts at CDC. Ahh the rub. Cutting edge and all that. Jim, While I will check out your links, I tend to believe what those researchers are finding out. Since Pa and NJ have such high asthma rates, is there a coincidence they are downwind from extreme amount of traffic congestion and power plants ? I would expect Washington state to have just as many asthma cases in proportion as NJ then which is just not the case. But perhaps this bacteria you talk about follows the smoke from diesel fuel and power plants? Other things I have read Jim: toll takers on average live 5 years less then the average person.People in asia where the pollution is even worse then here are having asthma rates surpass us .Many people wear masks everyday in some cities of Asia. While the air maybe cleaner in some pollutants , its more concentrated in others. (particulates and others), I am not sure they measured paticulates twenty years ago though. Remember also there are more cars on the road then ever before and many are Suvs that are gas guzzlers. > I agree that asthma numbers are significantly increasing. However, I really > don't think it's the air quality that's causing asthma to develop in people. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > http://www.AsthmaStory.com > http://forum.AsthmaStory.com http://asthma.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://story.news.yahoo.com/ news%3Ftmpl=story%26u=/ap/20031217/ap%5Fon%5Fhe%5Fme/new%5Fjersey%5Fasthma%5F1 > > Of course the NJ turnpike has more trucks traveling on that stretch then > > anywhere in the US . Doesn't help. Ask President if he cares? I live in > Pa > > and it aint much better. Sad it has to be printed in some link and not on > tv > > news. >I agree that asthma numbers are significantly increasing. However, I really >don't think it's the air quality that's causing asthma to develop in people. >I would classify myself as an environmentalist and do not agree with many of >Bush's policies so I'm not siding with him or the Republicans. IIRC the percentage of people with asthma appears to have stopped increasing a couple of years ago. Just as nobody know why it started increasing - nobody knows why it stopped increasing. "It's not American foreign policy, or the plight of the Palestinians, or America's longstanding support for Israel. A group of people with money and weaponry have simply decided that we, as a civilization, are unfit to live, and want, eventally, to exterminate us." 'Christian Century' magazine Uh Nobody , that is, Colin who refuses to look at the correlation's. If you ask my Doctor , the numbers are not decreasing. What study or where did you find this? One more fact , compared to thirty years ago, look up how many more trucks ( diesel) we have on the road compared to 30 years ago. You should see a huge increase.The correlation's are there , like there was in smoking but people would rather close their eyes. You like Bush correct? Is it because he stands up to terrorists or because he seems to project American Ideals? Well there is a connection to his policies or lack of and people dying from asthma. That was just one article. Many articles I couldn't save because the link is no longer around. Sure you can come up with studies also but why not side with the facts and play it safe. Inner city youth, feeling the brunt of it ( inner city gets traffic congestion, inner city often gets factory exhaust), people who are downwind from coal plants are getting hit hard in Mid Atlantic states. I am sure objectively they can examine studies such as the life expectancy of people living close to traffic and those that don't but will they? I am also sure there are pockets through out the US that are hit hard with asthma that have fewer obvious correlation's, which don't necessarily mean the ones we know about is any less poignant. > >I agree that asthma numbers are significantly increasing. However, I really > >don't think it's the air quality that's causing asthma to develop in people. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > want, eventally, to exterminate us." > 'Christian Century' magazine "CONCLUSIONS: There has been a gradual decrease in the incidence of asthma episodes and of acute bronchitis presenting to general practitioners since 1993. The trend of an increase before 1993 followed by a decrease cannot be explained by changes in the patterns of health care usage or diagnostic preference of doctors." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1 0899241&dopt=Abstract BTW, can't you leave your politics out of these discussions? >Uh Nobody , that is, Colin who refuses to look at the correlation's. If you >ask my Doctor , the numbers are not decreasing. What study or where did you [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >> want, eventally, to exterminate us." >> 'Christian Century' magazine "It's not American foreign policy, or the plight of the Palestinians, or America's longstanding support for Israel. A group of people with money and weaponry have simply decided that we, as a civilization, are unfit to live, and want, eventally, to exterminate us." 'Christian Century' magazine Can I leave the politics out of these discussions? I guess I could if you didn't have a sig file at the end of yours that one can only suggest is political That study contradicts immensely with that link I just left at the beginning. Your study versus 30 million people with asthma, INCREASING, This is where you can find a study bases on your own beliefs. For instance in the first study about NJ, the facts are such that newer studies just are not available. Your allowed for example to suggest that because comparsion studies for the number of cases in NJ were not omitted then obviously you can't say they are increasing. Why not ask Jersey hospitals if they are increasing. And there are so many links that says it is increasing. I just found five with no trouble although they give different reasonings why. To suggest its not increasing is crazy. You are ignoring the obvious. I can find at least fifty more links to suggest its increasing or more people are dying from it then ever before. 1 http://www.aster-cephac.fr/technicalsheets/Clinical%20Research/Asthma.pdf http://www.allergy.com/AllergyMenu/understandAllergies/allergyDiseases/allergyAs thmaLink/allergyAsthmaLink/ http://www.askdrbrent.com/articles2.php?cat=266 (look at number 3) http://www.buteyko.co.nz/asthma/facts/myths.cfm > "CONCLUSIONS: There has been a gradual decrease in the incidence of > asthma episodes and of acute bronchitis presenting to general > practitioners since 1993. The trend of an increase before 1993 > followed by a decrease cannot be explained by changes in the patterns > of health care usage or diagnostic preference of doctors." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1 0899241&dopt=Abstract > BTW, can't you leave your politics out of these discussions? > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > want, eventally, to exterminate us." > 'Christian Century' magazine >Can I leave the politics out of these discussions? I guess I could if you >didn't have a sig file at the end of yours that one can only suggest is >political Sig files are sig files. I have a number to choose from and as I post to different groups - I am not going to change it because you cannot keep on the topic of asthma. >That study contradicts immensely with that link I just left at the >beginning. Yes it does contradict it. And if you notice - my link was to a source scientific document. >http://www.buteyko.co.nz/asthma/facts/myths.cfm And your use of this link does not give me confidence in your ability to evaluate the reliability of material. BTW, just for you - here is a 'non-political' sig file. BTW: You haven't a distant clue what you're talking about. In fact, you couldn't get a clue during the clue mating season if you stood in the middle of a field of horny clues, smeared your body with clue musk and did the clue mating dance. 30 million people with asthma, many concentrated in areas with high pollution and inner city , many dying and Colin tells those with asthma the correlations are bogus. If anyone deserves asthma its you . I always have a strong disbelief for people who get on tv claiming their child is nuts when its obvious they are nuts. I can't believe that those who suffer from asthma blame the people who are trying to help them or others from getting it in the future. Just unbelievable. You think someone should know better or side with safety first? As for the studies Colin, thats four of at least one hundred. I had many links that were erased . The conservative movements is great at not getting this topic out on tv. When the weather man says its a great day out there but there is moderate levels of particulates outside, you know where the power structure lies.. > >Can I leave the politics out of these discussions? I guess I could if you > >didn't have a sig file at the end of yours that one can only suggest is [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > middle of a field of horny clues, smeared your body with clue musk and > did the clue mating dance. >30 million people with asthma, many concentrated in areas with high >pollution and inner city , many dying and Colin tells those with asthma the >correlations are bogus. When did I say that? >If anyone deserves asthma its you . I always have a >strong disbelief for people who get on tv claiming their child is nuts when [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >great day out there but there is moderate levels of particulates outside, >you know where the power structure lies.. Nice rant. Am I supposed to be impressed? It is amusing just how many assumptions you have made about me here. "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive, diffucult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." Gene Spafford 1992 assumptions? GEE colin I guessed! lol If you want to correct these assumptions , KNOCK yourself out or go to it. > >30 million people with asthma, many concentrated in areas with high > >pollution and inner city , many dying and Colin tells those with asthma the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." > Gene Spafford 1992 >assumptions? GEE colin I guessed! lol If you want to correct these >assumptions , KNOCK yourself out or go to it. I know you guessed. But your mind is firmly closed. Why should I waste my time? (Especially when the conversation would be off-topic?) "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive, diffucult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." Gene Spafford 1992 > Colin tells those with asthma the correlations are bogus. If anyone > deserves asthma its you . MCS, this is a support group. You've had your fun, now go away. I've come to believe that *you* don't have asthma since you seem to have no interest whatever in asthma treatments, symptoms or preventatives. Into the killfile with you . . . I'm curious whether those of you who advocate antibiotics (Jim and Joy most notably) continue taking them long-term. Did a single course of antibiotics cause a diminution of symptoms or is retreatment necessary? Clearly there are allergy and effectiveness problems with taking too many antibiotics. Speaking of support, we haven't heard from Ellis and Steven Livintchouk from a while. I hope it's because you guys are feeling better and are needing less support! SignatureAlison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid. (650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ I don't know which of our many enemies we ought to defy, but let us defy someone. -- Joseph Chamberlain, early 20th century British Minister and I am sure, people like you who have first hand experience with this illness, and who fails to see the pollution and global warming connection and do anything about it , would rather cry with each other cause its easier , correct? Show me where my first link is wrong? Your another conservative who gets a great deal of inspiration by thinking your in the majority with Bush. I think the word is security Alison. Security in numbers? "Alison Chaiken" <alison+gnus20031228T123009@dailyplanet.dontspam.wsrcc.com > wrote in message news:x6u13kfznj.fsf@scoville.wsrcc.com... > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Livintchouk from a while. I hope it's because you guys are feeling > better and are needing less support! >and I am sure, people like you who have first hand experience with this >illness, and who fails to see the pollution and global warming connection >and do anything about it , would rather cry with each other cause its easier >, correct? Show me where my first link is wrong? Your another conservative >who gets a great deal of inspiration by thinking your in the majority with >Bush. I think the word is security Alison. Security in numbers? BTW, what is this connection. Can you provide source scientific documents that demonstrate a cause-effect relationship? The truth is that nobody knows what caused the surge in asthma incidence. "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive, diffucult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." Gene Spafford 1992 I gave you five links There are hundreds more. There is a cause and effect correlation based on location (inner city and coal production) and global warming ( skin cancer and damage from sun). I am sure many people in inner city don't even report they are sick , they just try to get by so the problem is probably even more severe then what is reported.Here are some more things to think about. When people train for marathons , why don't they train in big NE cities? Because the air is so poor! They don't need a study to see your study to see the obvious. they have their own experiences which is basically assumed all over the athletic world. In Africa see where athletes train. It certainly isnt in downtown pollution centers.The thing is there is studies, you just don't want to look for them. The same thing was said about smoking incidentally. Show me the studies! for years! . > >and I am sure, people like you who have first hand experience with this > >illness, and who fails to see the pollution and global warming connection [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." > Gene Spafford 1992 >I gave you five links There are hundreds more. There is a cause and effect >correlation based on location (inner city and coal production) and global >warming ( skin cancer and damage from sun). So you do not have any actual source scientific documents that demonstrate a cause and effect relationship. You are just making assumptions. "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive, diffucult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." Gene Spafford 1992 Colin, You must be in a different world. Here is just one study . I told you there are hundreds of links do a link up. Lots of my links have been erased. I surmize the study your looking for don't exist. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/295067.stm If that won't do , I just looked casually , here are some http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/11/031111065914.htm > >I gave you five links There are hundreds more. There is a cause and effect > >correlation based on location (inner city and coal production) and global [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." > Gene Spafford 1992 and another http://www.air-purifiers-america.com/ed_celldamage.asp Let me know when to stop > >I gave you five links There are hundreds more. There is a cause and effect > >correlation based on location (inner city and coal production) and global [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." > Gene Spafford 1992 > I gave you five links There are hundreds more. There is a cause and > effect correlation based on location (inner city and coal production) > and global warming ( skin cancer and damage from sun). and cell phones and MTV and Barney and SUV's and......... > I am sure > many people in inner city don't even report they are sick , they just > try to get by so the problem is probably even more severe then what > is reported. Same for the country folk. > Here are some more things to think about. When people > train for marathons , why don't they train in big NE cities? Because > the air is so poor! Ever try to find 10-20 miles of uninterupted track to train on in an inner city? Do you have info that they train in other cities more than NE ones? > They don't need a study to see your study to see > the obvious. they have their own experiences which is basically > assumed all over the athletic world. Traffic and pavement are not good for running? > The thing is > there is studies, you just don't want to look for them. Seems to be a lot of that going around. > The same > thing was said about smoking incidentally. Show me the studies! for > years! . And the proponents did and now the connection is well established and accepted. You should try it. -- CBI, MD "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide Do I have the information that world class athletes are less likely to train in NE cities? No , not yet but I already found links to studies that people claimed didn't exist so getting this one should be hard , although this statistic was never studies, its just a known fact. People go to places with clean air to work out usually. Like Hawaii. > > I gave you five links There are hundreds more. There is a cause and > > effect correlation based on location (inner city and coal production) [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." > -Andre Gide Yes people work out of course in Ne cities but do world class athletes train in NE cities ? The answer is no and it has nothing to do with miles of pristine country side. Incidentally that can found in many outlining counties in major cities. The trainers mostly know that its a given to work out in clean air. Many people work out in colorado for example and Canada and Hawaii. > > I gave you five links There are hundreds more. There is a cause and > > effect correlation based on location (inner city and coal production) [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." > -Andre Gide . > I'm curious whether those of you who advocate antibiotics (Jim and Joy > most notably) continue taking them long-term. Did a single course of > antibiotics cause a diminution of symptoms or is retreatment > necessary? Clearly there are allergy and effectiveness problems with > taking too many antibiotics. I'd have to say the answer is "it depends". Some people like Jim and NSCEO just got better on 14 weeks of antibiotics and have not recurred and need no asthma meds today. Others have recurred and have then been cured after several additional weeks (not another 14, but more than 6). Still others have needed 6 full months and then there are the ones who have not been relieved. I personally have not been cured totally - I am just MUCH better. I use no regular asthma meds, but if I get exposed to a trigger, I have to use albuterol. So, for instance, I took my son to audition for the Atlanta Youth Symphony (downtown) in September and had a major (call an ambulance) attack due to the ozone (IMHO). For the most part though, if I am careful and stay away from Atl and other triggers like mold, I no longer have any coughing or SOB as I did before almost all of the time I would try and go without asthma meds. I am still on antibiotics because I developed Eustachian tube dysfunction. There are some Medline references to it being caused by one of the pneumonias, and my ENT is currently treating it as an infection problem. I have not tested out as having allergies by the way so he wasn't going in that direction until there is more evidence (like I get worse in the spring or fall indicating allergies). So, I am not sure I personally am at the end. The current literature is going away from the antibiotics cause allergies theory. That theory was surely interesting though - it just isn't panning out. It really only involved early childhood exposure to antibiotics in any event. I am an adult onset after pneumonia asthmatic, so it seemed likely to me that I was a good candidate to get better on antibiotics. My understanding is that the effectiveness problem doesn't come into play with antibiotics for asthma because the dose is fairly low. I have never had any side effects like thrush that I had when I had to use steroids, so I naturally would feel others concerns are unnecessary. Hey, my doctors just didn't seem to care that I had major side effects on steroids. I look at this as an appropriate treatment for the type of asthma I had. If I got a bladder infection, I would expect to get antibiotics, NOT a steroid. Hi Alison, I took antibiotics for 14 weeks in 1996 to treat my asthma and went from having extremely severe asthma for over 10 years to now being 100% cured. I haven't used any medicine or antibiotics other than a few antacids and asprin since 1996. I documented my story completely including articles about when I went into full cardiac and respiratory arrest from a particularly bad asthma attack. Visit http://www.AsthmaStory.com to look at the research if you're interested. I recently posted a video of Dr. Hahn on the site. In the video he comments on the NIH becoming interested in this and what they're doing. You can view or join in the discussions on our moderated online forum at http://forum.asthmastory.com. It's moderated by people who got better after taking the antibiotic treatment. You're right about taking too many antibiotics being bad. A lot of doctors prescribe a z-pack for patients for temporary relief which I think is bad. After awhile, the bacteria will become resistant to the antibiotic. I took the antibiotics once and never again. Jim Quinlan http://www.AsthmaStory.com > I'm curious whether those of you who advocate antibiotics (Jim and Joy > most notably) continue taking them long-term. Did a single course of > antibiotics cause a diminution of symptoms or is retreatment > necessary? Clearly there are allergy and effectiveness problems with > taking too many antibiotics. Jim Its a very interesting hypothesis, but it may be related to one type of asthma .Why didn't the Dr. sound more enthusiastic, as he suggests people to keep taking their steroids? There is a body of research to suggest that anti biotics and infections are more important then once thought in a whole slew of ailments. So if someone need an inhaler twice a week and its not life threatning, what should they do stop it or take what you take? I mean if your no longer sick from asthma period, that is pretty substantial evidence to do more studies on this subject. and make more recommendations to people wouldn't you think? Good luck > Hi Alison, > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > necessary? Clearly there are allergy and effectiveness problems with > > taking too many antibiotics. He basically states that if you have your asthma under control then you should use guideline therapy. A lot more research is needed before this is mainstream and he certainly doesn't want to discredit this research by prematurely saying everyone should start using antibiotics to cure their asthma unless their asthma is severe and uncontrollable. He really is excited about the progress of the studies and acceptance in the medical community. I thought things were going too slow but he educated me about how the system works so I now understand a little more about what is required. For example, the first study that showed Asprin was helpful in preventing heart attacks was by a doctor in 1949 ! And that was just accepted and promoted in the medical community several years ago. I'm glad that I was able to meet him and his wife (also a doctor) because I now understand more of what is required to go through the slow process of the medical system. Personally, my asthma was very severe and out of control even after seeing many doctors and trying everthing from steroids to shots. I was a basket case asthmatic but this cured me 100%. The really scarry thing about these bacteria is they are now suspect in several other very serious ailments that affect people depending upon the tissue they infect in your body. There's interesting credible studies showing they may be responsible for heart disease. Other possible diseases include MS, arthritis and Alzeimers (sorry about the spelling). We have been working with a national television news network that is planning on doing a story about this real soon. I'll post it on the site so keep checking back. Jim Quinlan http://www.AsthmaStory.com > Jim > Its a very interesting hypothesis, but it may be related to one type of [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > > necessary? Clearly there are allergy and effectiveness problems with > > > taking too many antibiotics. Ok Jim thanks, Yes its scary because they have the antibiotics to help it and because we hear so much about our society becoming too dependent on these things. A complete freakin contradiction so it seems. I also worry about the inflammation and infection. I have high cholestrol and I am pretty good at watching what I eat and then there is the asthma. So I may self medicate myself. I got to hand it to you, for taking it all those weeks. You maybe the best guinea pig this thing needs. Fortunately it helped you. This is an amazing story. I have another question. Sometimes I get stuck reading message boards. Can you summarize what people are saying there? Are they taking your meds? Are they taking different anti biotics? Finally if this stuff helps they better start telling people. thanks > He basically states that if you have your asthma under control then you > should use guideline therapy. A lot more research is needed before this is [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > > > > necessary? Clearly there are allergy and effectiveness problems with > > > > taking too many antibiotics. There's various doctors around the country who use several different antibiotics to treat asthma. Some do things very differently in my opinion. Some of the antibiotics (Biaxin) are taken for a longer duration as they're not as potent as the zithromax. I'd say probably half to a third of the people on my forum have taken or are taking long term antibiotics to eradicate their asthma. It's a new forum started in August. The people who have been sick for years and years and are now better tend to turn into zealots like me because it really is a life changing experience if you were extremely sick and then go to perfect health. I've calmed down a little in my message because I used to think there had to be some sort of conspiracy with the pharmaceutical companies because of all the money they would lose. But now I'm more realistic and realize it's more a case of red tape and the slow process of controlled studies which I guess is the logical process. But I'm still technically a zealot. A lot of people have doctors treating them with the same treatment I took and some are self medicating but it's not something we recommend for obvious legal and ethical reasons. I don't know what you mean about the asprin / wine question. Jim Quinlan http://www.AsthmaStory.com both are suppose to be anti inflammatory agents . I guess thats not the same as anti bacterial though . > There's various doctors around the country who use several different > antibiotics to treat asthma. Some do things very differently in my opinion. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Jim Quinlan > http://www.AsthmaStory.com ps , Jim , Do you take aspirin or one glass of wine?> Maybe the alcohol cuts into the bacteria? I don't know > He basically states that if you have your asthma under control then you > should use guideline therapy. A lot more research is needed before this is [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > > > > necessary? Clearly there are allergy and effectiveness problems with > > > > taking too many antibiotics. >I always have a strong disbelief for people who get on tv claiming >their child is nuts when its obvious they are nuts. Wow! A Jerry Springer Fan Club member! JER-RY! JER-RY! JER-RY! JER-RY! JER-RY! ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon ```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." Well all the presidents men seems in tune here. I am glad an asthma board no less has each other to hold onto , because certainly you guys and gals would rather talk about symptoms then how to stop it from happening in the future or in the first place . Fortunately there are others who see the connections. Its pretty indicative that people can't seperate the emotion from their intellect. If the President says jump off the cliff I am sure many here would. > >I always have a strong disbelief for people who get on tv claiming > >their child is nuts when its obvious they are nuts. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > ```````````` > "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." |
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