Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / April 2008
Bread and Plants
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ironjustice - 19 Mar 2008 09:54 GMT IP6 is phytate / phytic acid found in the chaff of your grains and other plants. Anthocyanins are all those colors you see in your plants.
"IP6 enhances gastrointestinal absorption of anthocyanins"
Enhanced absorption of anthocyanins after oral administration of phytic acid in rats and humans. Mar 21, 2007 Hitoshi Matsumoto,Kyoko Ito,Kumiko Yonekura,Takanori Tsuda,Takashi Ichiyanagi,Masao Hirayama,Tetsuya Konishi Many studies on the bioavailability of polyphenols have been reported. However, the relative urinary excretions of AC are also low, ranging from 0.004% to 0.1%. By contrast, other polyphenols show higher urinary excretion levels. Here, we studied the enhancing effects of phytic acid (IP6) on absorption of blackcurrant anthocyanins (BCAs) in rats and humans. In rats after oral administration of BCAs (as 241 mg of AC/kg body weight) in IP6 (0%, 0.25%, 0.5%, 1%, 2.5%) solution, the ACs recovery in urine was increased dependent on IP6 dose. These results suggest that the IP6 enhances gastrointestinal absorption of ACs. At the further analysis of IP6 enhancement effect in rat, whereas BCAs were normally passed through the stomach and duodenum within 2 h, in IP6 group, after 2-6 h post-administration, stomach and jejunum content's weights were specifically heavy, and large amounts of ACs were also detected in stomach, duodenum, and jejunum. These results suggested that the mixture of BCAs and IP6 reduced the gastrointestinal motility. Prolongation of ACs residue in gastrointestinal tract then caused the enhancing effects of IP6 on absorption of AC. In the human study, each subject was orally administrated a BCA beverage containing BCA concentrate (AC 4 mg/kg body weight), 1% of IP6, and 1% of sodium citrate as a pH stabilizer. Both the plasma level and the urinary excretion of AC were increased as compared to BCA administration without IP6. AC intake with IP6 may increase the bioavailability of AC to the comparative level as other polyphenols. Yet, phytic acid, being a strong chelator of important minerals, contributes to mineral deficiencies. An interference with iron uptake has been reported. Safety tests are therefore necessary before high dose IP6 can be used in foods.
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
dar - 19 Mar 2008 15:41 GMT > IP6 is phytate / phytic acid found in the chaff of your grains and > other plants. [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk Hey Tom,
Sorry, can't do the iron thingy......especially when one's on Synthroid!
I thought that Jesus and his family ate lamb....isn't he the lamb of God?
As far as; grains are concerned.....they can really do a number on folks that have an allergy to them! I ought to know, I'm one of them.....
Oh well, thanks for your interesting post!
Take care and be well out there! Debra
ironjustice@aol.com - 19 Mar 2008 16:12 GMT On Mar 19, 7:41 am, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:Hey Tom, Sorry, can't do the iron thingy......especially when one's on Synthroid! <<
You have no clue what this iron .. "thingy" .. is .
Maybe you should at least HAVE a .. clue .. **before** you say anything about .. anything ..
That is sorta how .. life .. works .. and one might think when one gets to be your age .. you would have figured out how life works by .. now ..
But there is no accounting for .. fill in the blank.
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> > IP6 is phytate / phytic acid found in the chaff of your grains and > > other plants. [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > - Show quoted text - dar - 19 Mar 2008 23:08 GMT On Mar 19, 10:12 am, "ironjust...@aol.com" <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Mar 19, 7:41 am, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:Hey Tom, > Sorry, can't do the iron thingy......especially when one's on [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Hey Tom!
Here's three of my clue's:
1. The irony thing, was a mistake on my part....my brain kept looking at your addy and I thought...hmmmm Iron. Do not take Iron while on Synthroid! It was a brain freeze that got frozen and wouldn't melt! I apologize for this.
2. Age is purely a state of mind. I wonder what state your mind is currently in, at your age?
3. Who loves me? Why Kojak does (I could go for a lolly right about now!), amongst many others.....
Take care and be well out there! Debra
Michael B - 20 Mar 2008 03:28 GMT A reminder- This brings up a topic that I'd like to assume most hypothyroid folks are familiar with.
There isn't a dictum against taking iron while supplementing thyroid, it's against CONCURRENT iron supplementation. There needs to be at least four hours time between the two, with the thyroid supplement being first.
The thing that a lot of hypothyroid people ignore is the amount of iron in typical breakfast stuff, even Cream of Wheat. If vitamins have been added, iron probably has been, too. And a lot of it is "elemental iron", which means it's been ground down in its elemental form till it's less than 14 microns in size, and gets delivered for 'slow release' with the Raisin Bran or whatever. So the "iron thing" has been done, even if it's not in your Geritol.
So watch out for the sneaky iron thing. Some women have the notion that they can't have iron, and that's not true. But they need to be very careful about the timing for their iron, even if it's dietary iron instead of the tablets of iron supplement, And certainly, most women do indeed need their iron, despite proposals of a crusader against it. But indeed, it's better to include iron supplementation only when it has been noted as needed. Because the body doesn't deal well with excessive metals, including iron.
On Mar 19, 7:41 am, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:Hey Tom,
> > Sorry, can't do the iron thingy......especially when one's on > > Synthroid! << ironjustice - 20 Mar 2008 15:34 GMT On Mar 19, 7:28 pm, Michael B <baugh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:And certainly, most women do indeed need their iron, despite proposals of a crusader against it <<
This may the science subspecialty to which you are more suited since you know very little about .. nutrition.
Influence of bovine manure on dissipation of hexazinone in soil. [JOURNAL ARTICLE] Ecotoxicol Environ Saf 2008 Mar 15. Wang H, Li Y, Lu Y, Huang C, Zhang M, Wang X
The effects of bovine manure (BM) on the degradation of hexazinone and formation of three of its major metabolites were investigated in sandy loam soil. The degradation half-life of hexazinone was 29.6 days in unamended soil, while it decreased to 21.8 days in BM-amended soil. The major metabolites formed in unamended soil were [3-cyclohexyl-6- (methylamino)-1-methyl-1,3,5-triazine-2,4(1, 3H)-dione] (metabolite A) and [3-cyclohexyl-1-methyl-1,3,5-triazine-2,4,6(1, 3, 5H)-trione] (metabolite C), while metabolite B [3-(4-hydroxycyclohexyl)-6- (dimethylamino)-1-methyl-1,3,5-triazine-2,4(1, 3H)-dione] was not detected over the entire experimental period. However, in BM-amended soil, metabolite B was detected at 20 and 40 days after incubation, suggesting that BM contributed to formation of this metabolite. N-demethylation, removal of the dimethylamino group with formation of a carbonyl group at the 6-position of the triazine ring appeared to be the principal mechanisms involved in hexazinone metabolism in unamended soil. However, hydroxylation at the 4-positon of the cyclohexyl group as well as the above two modes were the principal pathways in BM-amended soil. Ecotoxicology and environmental safety [Ecotoxicol Environ Saf] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> A reminder- > This brings up a topic that I'd like to assume most hypothyroid [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > - Show quoted text - dar - 20 Mar 2008 20:59 GMT > A reminder- > This brings up a topic that I'd like to assume most hypothyroid [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Michael,
Thank you, thank you, thank you.....!
If everyone looked at my posting and follow-up, they'd see that I posted that, I personally can not take Iron with Synthroid.
No one knows what the other mitigating factors are regarding my medical history and the other medications that I take throughout the day. Nor does anyone know my severe allergic reactions to medications, and food etc. I, Debra, can not take Synthroid and Iron....!!!! :-))
Having said that....those of you that do take your Synthroid and Iron, do what your physician has told you to do.
I'm truly sorry to ever have posted what I posted. I apologized to Tom, about the Iron thingy. It was never, ever to have any scientific value.....
Whew! I'm all tired out now. Hahaha!
Time to take a snooze.....or eat an apple. I'm sure I can eat an apple as I took my Synthroid a long time ago...... Please, no one reply to this one.....!!! If you do, I'm gonna bake you an apple pie, and you're gonna have to eat it after you've taken your Synthroid!
Take care and be well out there! Debra
Michael B - 20 Mar 2008 23:56 GMT So, Debra, how are your morning cortisols?
I prefer the apples to be a bit tart, if ya please.
> Whew! I'm all tired out now. Hahaha! > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Take care and be well out there! Debra dar - 21 Mar 2008 14:12 GMT > So, Debra, how are your morning cortisols? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Michael,
Hahhaa! In your case you're going to get a macintosh tart!
Take care and be well out there! Debra
nanny - 24 Mar 2008 16:53 GMT Debra, if it's not asking too much, can you make me a macintosh tart - with lots of sugar? ;-) Nanny
> So, Debra, how are your morning cortisols? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Michael,
Hahhaa! In your case you're going to get a macintosh tart!
Take care and be well out there! Debra
dar - 21 Mar 2008 14:22 GMT > So, Debra, how are your morning cortisols? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Michael,
I forgot.... The morning cortisols. I'm having to do the 24 hour cortisol testing next week. The 24 hour catching of urine, and the blood drawing 2x day. Morning and afternoon.
Take care and be well out there! Debra
DonnaB shallotpeel - 22 Mar 2008 19:48 GMT In alt.support.diabetes on Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:28:17 -0700 (PDT) in Msg.# <11e53726-32b0-4461-b1b9-026dcd23c2ef@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Michael B <baughfam@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> A reminder- > This brings up a topic that I'd like to assume most hypothyroid [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > There needs to be at least four hours time between the two, > with the thyroid supplement being first. ... The newsgroups that this stuff is being cross-posted to are: sci.med, alt.med.fibromyalgia, alt.support.diabetes, sci.med.cardiology, alt.support.asthma ...
I'm posting from ASD, alt.support.diabetes and I'm not finding much reason to read this thread or portions of the one it sprung from. I also have severe allergies (MCS) and asthma, although my asthma is nothing compared to some people's. Can anyone tell me what I might be missing here? Can anyone tell me why ASD is included here? Thanks.
 Signature DonnaB shallotpeel USA sad to hear of the death of Arthur C. Clarke 06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 HbA1c 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg Current ................... HbA1c 6.3
"There is hopeful symbolism in the fact that flags do not wave in a vacuum." - Arthur C. Clarke (12/17/1917 - 03/18/2008)
J666 - 22 Mar 2008 20:04 GMT On Mar 22, 1:48 pm, DonnaB shallotpeel
>Can anyone > tell me why ASD is included here? Thanks.
The reason for that is in the mind of the original poster who sent it to those groups. After that, often the replies get sent to all the groups.
Some who "preach" a certain idea may feel they are doing everyone a favor by spreading their word - whether it is spreading a word or spreading manure, each person can decide for themselves
ironjustice - 23 Mar 2008 05:08 GMT On Mar 22, 11:48 am, DonnaB shallotpeel <shallotp...@comcast.net> wrote:I'm posting from ASD, alt.support.diabetes and I'm not finding much reason to read this thread or portions of the one it sprung from. I also have severe allergies (MCS) and asthma, although my asthma is nothing compared to some people's. Can anyone tell me what I might be missing here? Can anyone tell me why ASD is included here? Thanks.<<
Iron increased iron causes erythrocytosis .. too many red blood cells.
Erythrocytosis .. is found in diabetes and in asthma.
Increased iron is found in diabetes and in asthma.
Allergies are hypothesised to be caused by increased iron .. evidenced by the fact they are using / adding phytic acid an extremely good natural iron binder / chelator to our food to PREVENT anaphylactic shock.
All of the above can be verified with a simple search in the newsgroups.
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> In alt.support.diabetes on Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:28:17 -0700 (PDT) in Msg.# > <11e53726-32b0-4461-b1b9-026dcd23c...@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Michael [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > "There is hopeful symbolism in the fact that flags do not wave in a vacuum." > - Arthur C. Clarke (12/17/1917 - 03/18/2008) René - 20 Mar 2008 05:20 GMT Dar,
Why can't you take iron when you take Synthroid? What am I not seeing?
René
Julie Bove - 20 Mar 2008 05:23 GMT > Dar, > > Why can't you take iron when you take Synthroid? What am I not seeing? You're not supposed to take it at the same time because you won't get the full dose if you do. When I took it, I took my vitamins at night and the Synthroid in the morning.
René - 20 Mar 2008 05:28 GMT Julie, thanks for the quick reply!
René
>> Dar, >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > full dose if you do. When I took it, I took my vitamins at night and the > Synthroid in the morning. Cheeky Bastard - 20 Mar 2008 10:01 GMT I keep the bottle in the bed and take my thyroid med as soon as I wake and then the rest later.
CB
>> Dar, >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > full dose if you do. When I took it, I took my vitamins at night and the > Synthroid in the morning. Tiger_Lily - 20 Mar 2008 17:22 GMT i do the same, my thyroid meds are right beside my bed, and when i wake up at 4am, i take my synthroid and go back to sleep.......... no problem, food will be well over an hour away :) k
> I keep the bottle in the bed and take my thyroid med as soon as I wake > and then the rest later. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> the full dose if you do. When I took it, I took my vitamins at night >> and the Synthroid in the morning. dar - 20 Mar 2008 21:01 GMT > > Dar, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > full dose if you do. When I took it, I took my vitamins at night and the > Synthroid in the morning. Julie,
Thanks for replying to Rene.....
Take care and be well out there! Debra
ironjustice - 20 Mar 2008 15:43 GMT Why can't you take iron when you take Synthroid? What am I not seeing? <<
The iron renders your hormone replacement therapy ineffective the same as your antibiotics. Below is a snip or cut and paste like some like to call it ..
http://www.gicare.com/pated/doxycycline.htm
"Are there interactions with food or beverages?
Avoid meats, iron-fortified cereals and iron supplements for 2 hours before and after taking this drug."
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
René - 21 Mar 2008 03:33 GMT Thanks for the reply, Tom. It appears that it is an individual thing, as so many things are. I've been taking Synthroid for 23 years, and have never been cautioned about taking Iron supplements with it.
René
On Mar 19, 9:20 pm, René <My.Penc...@gmail.com> wrote: Why can't you take iron when you take Synthroid? What am I not seeing? <<
The iron renders your hormone replacement therapy ineffective the same as your antibiotics. Below is a snip or cut and paste like some like to call it ..
http://www.gicare.com/pated/doxycycline.htm
"Are there interactions with food or beverages?
Avoid meats, iron-fortified cereals and iron supplements for 2 hours before and after taking this drug."
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
ironjustice@aol.com - 24 Mar 2008 11:56 GMT On Mar 20, 7:43 am, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote:The iron renders your hormone replacement therapy ineffective <<
Sooo .. with 92% of long term diabetics with free floating iron in the bodies .. will this iron destroy their free floating thyroxine .. ? Or yours .. ?
"The major form of thyroid hormone in the blood is thyroxine (T4)."
Research Article Determination of thyroxine in pharmaceuticals using flow injection with luminol chemiluminescence inhibition detection Amir Waseem *, Mohammad Yaqoob, Abdul Nabi Department of Chemistry, University of Balochistan, Quetta, Pakistan
email: Amir Waseem (waseemq2000@yahoo.com)
*Correspondence to Amir Waseem, Department of Chemistry, University of Balochistan, Quetta, Pakistan.
Funded by: Higher Education Commission, Pakistan; Grant Number: IQC-03600101
Keywords flow injection analysis * chemiluminescence * inhibition * thyroxine * pharmaceuticals
Abstract A simple flow injection method is reported for the determination of thyroxine, based on its inhibition effect on luminol-iron(II) chemiluminescence in alkaline medium in the presence of molecular oxygen. The detection limits (2s) for d- and l-thyroxine are 0.08 and 0.1 mg/ L, respectively, with a sample throughput of 100/h. The calibration data for d- and l-thyroxine over the range 0.2-1.0 mg/ L gives correlation coefficients (r2) of 0.9915 and 0.984 with relative standard deviations (RSD; n = 4) in the range 1.2-2.8%. The effects of some organic compounds was studied on luminol-iron(II) CL system for thyroxine determination. The method was applied to pharmaceutical thyroxine tablets and the results obtained (in the range 50.5 ± 2.0-51.6 ± 1.2 µg l-thyroxine/ tablet) were in reasonable agreement with the value quoted. Copyright (c) 2006 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Received: 30 September 2005; Accepted: 20 December 2005 Digital Object Identifier (DOI)
10.1002/bio.902 About DOI
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> Why can't you take iron when you take Synthroid? What am I not > seeing? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk dar - 20 Mar 2008 21:00 GMT > Dar, > > Why can't you take iron when you take Synthroid? What am I not seeing? > > René Rene....
Please see my recent posting. You're seeing just fine......
Take care and be well out there! Debra
René - 21 Mar 2008 03:36 GMT Hi Dar! I'm seeing my doctor tomorrow and am going to ask about it, because I've taken Synthroid for 23 years, and have recently been prescribed an iron supplement for anemia. Nobody said anything about the combination, or interactions. But that's not surprising. I'm gonna have to find out for myself, I can see. The old, "YMMV" is right on here!
Thanks!
René
On Mar 19, 11:20 pm, René <My.Penc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dar, > > Why can't you take iron when you take Synthroid? What am I not seeing? > > René Rene....
Please see my recent posting. You're seeing just fine......
Take care and be well out there! Debra
dar - 21 Mar 2008 14:18 GMT > Hi Dar! I'm seeing my doctor tomorrow and am going to ask about it, because > I've taken Synthroid for 23 years, and have recently been prescribed an iron [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Take care and be well out there! Debra Rene,
This might be too late, depending on your doctors appointment. I've always known about antacids and calcium as well. You're suppose to take them hours after you've taken your Synthroid. Like you would with your Iron. It has to do with the same absorption situation. I know of this, due to me taking the calcium and antacids.
Gosh, this thread should turn into a Synthroid thread. That way we could leave Tom alone with his posting.
I've learned my lesson.....Tom!
Take care and be well out there! Debra
ironjustice - 21 Mar 2008 15:56 GMT On Mar 21, 6:18 am, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:Gosh, this thread should turn into a Synthroid thread. That way we could leave Tom alone with his posting. <<
You should actually start your own thread .. This thread is .. Bread and Plants ..
You know there seems to be something about the way you are acting ..
FIRST .. you say something about iron .. then you say you SAID something about iron because of a nonexistent mentioning of iron in my sig .. and NOW you speak about the lowest of the low .. changing the thread .. **title** ..
Now if I didn't know better .. and since you SPECIFICALLY mentioned that you are .. a newbie .. and any untoward remarks or actions MUST be filed UNDER .. "not knowing no better" .. according to you .. makes me kinda think you know EXACTLY what you are doing ..
So again ..
Start another thread .. your OWN .. thread and maybe I should suggest a title FOR .. your .. thread / post.
Hypothyroid Iron Supplementation
Here's something to start .. with.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/patient-iron.html
Interactions with Drugs Acetohydroxamic acid (AHA, Lithostat®) is prescribed to decrease urinary ammonia, and may help with antibiotics to work or help with other kidney stone treatment. Use with iron supplements may cause either medicine to be less effective.
Allopurinol (Zyloprim®), a medication used to treat gout, may increase iron storage in the liver and should not be used in combination with iron supplements.
Aminosalicylic acid (para-aminosalicylic acid, PAS, Paser) may cause a malabsorption syndrome (weight loss, iron and vitamin depletion, excessive fat in the stools (steatorrhea). A qualified healthcare provider should be contacted immediately if any of these symptoms are experienced.
Antacids may reduce iron absorption, and reduced efficacy has occurred occasionally. Clinically significant effects are unlikely with adequate dietary iron intake. However, it is recommended to avoid antacids or separate the doses of antacids and iron.
Aspirin and nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) can cause mucosal damage and bleeding throughout the gastrointestinal tract. Chronic blood loss associated with long-term use of these agents may contribute to iron deficiency anemia. Since iron supplements may also irritate the gastrointestinal tract, patients should not use them concurrently with NSAIDs unless recommended by a physician. Iron rich food intake may be advised as an alternative.
Iron can decrease absorption of prescription drug bisphosphonates by forming insoluble complexes. Bisphosphonates include alendronate (Fosamax®), etidronate (Didronel®), risedronate (Actonel®), and tiludronate (Skelid®). Doses of bisphosphonates should be separated by at least two hours from doses of all other medications, including supplements such as iron.
Chloramphenicol (Chloromycetin®) can reduce the response to iron therapy in iron deficiency anemia.
Cholestyramine (Questran®) and colestipol (Colestid®) may bind iron in the gut, reducing its absorption. Clinically significant iron deficiency induced by these drugs has not been reported, and supplements are not likely to be needed. If taking iron supplements for other causes of deficiency, it is recommended that the iron and cholestyramine or colestipol doses be separated by at least four hours.
Desferrioxamine (DFO) is an iron-chelating drug that lowers iron levels.
Iron supplements and dimercaprol may combine in the body to form a harmful chemical.
Bone marrow iron deposits have been shown to decrease significantly in patients on EPO-R.
Iron decreases the absorption of fluoroquinolone antibiotics. Fluoroquinolones include ciprofloxacin (Cipro®), levofloxacin (Levaquin®), ofloxacin (Floxin®), and others. It is recommended to take these antibiotics at least two hours before or two hours after iron-containing supplements.
Gastric acid is important for the absorption of iron, particularly dietary non-heme (plant-derived) iron. Adequate dietary iron intake is recommended when taking H2 blockers like cimetidine (Tagamet®), ranitidine (Zantac®), famotidine (Pepcid®), or nizatidine (Axid®). Iron supplements are not usually required unless they are being used for another indication.
There is some evidence in healthy people that iron forms chelates with levodopa (Sinemet®), reducing the amount of levodopa absorbed by around 50%. Until further research is available, separate doses of levodopa and iron as much as possible.
Iron can decrease the absorption and efficacy of levothyroxine (Levoxyl®, Synthroid®) by forming insoluble complexes in the gastrointestinal tract. It is recommended that levothyroxine and iron doses be separated by at least two hours.
Iron can decrease absorption of methyldopa (Aldomet®), resulting in increases in blood pressure. It is recommended that methyldopa and iron doses be separated by at least two hours.
Oral iron supplements markedly reduce absorption of mycophenolate mofetil (CellCept®). It is recommended that iron be taken four to six hours before, or two hours after mycophenolate mofetil.
There is some evidence that pancreatic enzyme supplements (such as Cotazym®, Creon®, Pancrease®, Ultrase®, Viokase®), can reduce iron absorption, possibly by binding iron or altering pH. Clinical significance is unlikely, except in people with cystic fibrosis who need pancreatic enzyme supplements for prolonged periods, and have other factors contributing to iron deficiency. Iron status should be monitored by a qualified healthcare provider.
Oral iron supplements can reduce absorption of penicillamine (Cuprimine®, Depen®) by 30% to 70%, probably due to chelate formation. Efficacy of penicillamine is reduced in Wilson's disease; the clinical significance in people with rheumatoid arthritis (RA) has not been determined. Patients should be advised to take penicillamine at least two hours before or after iron-containing supplements.
Gastric acid is important for the absorption of iron. However, long- term treatment, up to 12.5 years, with proton pump inhibitors (such as esomeprazole (Nexium®), lansoprazole (Prevacid®), omeprazole (Prilosec®), rabeprazole (Aciphex®), pantoprazole (Protonix®, Pantoloc®) has not been associated with iron depletion or anemia in people with normal iron stores. Maintaining adequate dietary iron intake is recommended.
Concomitant use can decrease absorption of tetracycline antibiotics by 50% to 90%. Patients should be advised to take tetracyclines at least two hours before or after iron-containing supplements. Some of these drugs include doxycycline (Vibramycin®), minocycline (Minocin®), tetracycline (Achromycin®), and others.
Interactions with Herbs and Dietary Supplements Acacia forms an insoluble gel with ferric iron. Clinical significance is unknown.
Calcium supplements have been shown to inhibit absorption of iron supplements when taken with food. However, in people with adequate iron stores, this does not appear to be clinically significant. If at risk for iron deficiency, it is recommended to take calcium supplements at bedtime, instead of with meals, to avoid inhibiting dietary iron absorption.
Copper metabolism may be altered by iron supplements, but the clinical importance of this observation is unknown.
Citric, malic, tartaric, and lactic acids have some enhancing effects on nonheme iron absorption.
Phytic acid is present in legumes, grains, and rice and is an inhibitor of nonheme iron absorption. Small amounts of phytic acid can reduce nonheme iron absorption by 50%. The absorption of iron from legumes, such as soybeans, black beans, lentils, mung beans, and split peas, has been shown to be as low as 2%.
Polyphenols, found in some fruits, vegetables, coffee, tea, wines, and spices, can markedly inhibit the absorption of nonheme iron. This effect is reduced by the presence of vitamin C.
Riboflavin (vitamin B2) supplements may improve the hematological response to iron supplements in some people with anemia.
Based on preliminary data, iron may decrease selenium levels. Further research is needed to confirm these results.
Soy protein reduces absorption of dietary non-heme (plant-derived) iron, probably due to binding of iron by phytate and calcium present in soy. Fermented soy products seem to inhibit of iron absorption less.
Vitamin A appears to be involved in mobilizing iron from tissue stores for delivery to developing red blood cells in the bone marrow. Vitamin A may also be involved in the differentiation and proliferation of blood stem cells in the bone marrow, and in the synthesis of erythropoietin. Preliminary evidence also suggests that vitamin A and beta-carotene may enhance non-heme iron absorption from iron- fortified wheat and corn flour, and rice. It is unlikely that vitamin A supplements would have significant effects on iron status in people without vitamin A deficiency.
The amount of vitamin C in the diet is a factor in dietary iron absorption and iron status. Vitamin C can counteract the effects of substances, which inhibit iron absorption. Supplemental or dietary vitamin C improves absorption of supplemental or dietary non-heme (plant-derived) iron ingested at the same time. Taking a vitamin C supplement to improve absorption of dietary or supplemental iron probably is not necessary for most people, especially if their diet contains adequate amounts of vitamin C.
Use of oral iron preparations in premature infants with low serum vitamin E levels may cause hemolysis and hemolytic anemia. Vitamin E deficiency should be corrected before administering supplemental iron.
Iron may decrease zinc absorption but there does not seem to be a clinically significant interaction between dietary iron and zinc, or between supplemental iron and zinc dietary sources.
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> > Hi Dar! I'm seeing my doctor tomorrow and am going to ask about it, because > > I've taken Synthroid for 23 years, and have recently been prescribed an iron [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > - Show quoted text - dar - 21 Mar 2008 23:53 GMT > On Mar 21, 6:18 am, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:Gosh, this thread > should turn into a Synthroid thread. That way we [quoted text clipped - 235 lines] > > read more »... Ummm Tom,
Because I don't know you and you don't know me (unless you've posted under a different addy many years ago)....I'm extending my hand out to ya in the form of cyber-friendship. I'm gonna bake you two apple pies!
I haven't stated that I'm a newbie. I am new to the GMAIL and the new TN Group. I'm new to learning how to do things with posting etc. I haven't mastered the cut/paste or snip yet. That's all I've stated regarding being new at anything.
Please check out my original posting of: I've Just Arrived and I Don't Know Where I've Landed
I've not posted to the newsgroups for many years. At least three. Ok, maybe 2 1/2.
My former addy was: Alrhody Please check out my postings under this.
Please go and check it out. I checked it out a few days ago, and to tell you the truth...I did cry. They were not happy tears either.
I cried because of the fun being taken out of here. I cried because I miss my buddy Moe. Whom, along with my husband, attended her funeral. You might even go far back enough to read about the death of my brother....I didn't want to bring this up. It's just documentation for you to read, due to your suspicions.
As far as me asking to have this thread moved, regarding Synthroid. The subject has taken up your thread. I caused this to happen and I'm very...very sorry that I have.
There is really nothing more that I can say or do......so;
Gonna go and start the apple pie baking.....
Take care and be well out there! Debra
ironjustice - 22 Mar 2008 00:45 GMT On Mar 21, 3:53 pm, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:I've Just Arrived and I Don't Know Where I've Landed <<
You've landed in one of the more vicious of the newsgroups.
They work as a group.
Criminal acts have emanated alt.med.fibromyalgia .
You say you have only really been gone for two to three years which means .. ? .. again .. suspician has been raised because .. ? .. this group has displayed that viciousness for much longer than three years .. meaning again .. WHY are you .. blissfully unaware OF these .. displays .. ?
Do you know .. diana .. ?
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> > On Mar 21, 6:18 am, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:Gosh, this thread > > should turn into a Synthroid thread. That way we [quoted text clipped - 277 lines] > > - Show quoted text - nanny - 24 Mar 2008 16:42 GMT Hey, this has gone far enough! Debra is NOT a newbie, and I remember her sweet self many years ago on AMF. She encourages others, she's funny, and she's great at "virtual" party times :-) She has also known sorrow and pain over the years. She is my friend. Nanny On Mar 21, 3:53 pm, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:I've Just Arrived and I Don't Know Where I've Landed <<
You've landed in one of the more vicious of the newsgroups.
They work as a group.
Criminal acts have emanated alt.med.fibromyalgia .
You say you have only really been gone for two to three years which means .. ? .. again .. suspician has been raised because .. ? .. this group has displayed that viciousness for much longer than three years .. meaning again .. WHY are you .. blissfully unaware OF these .. displays .. ?
Do you know .. diana .. ?
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> On Mar 21, 9:56 am, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 279 lines] > > - Show quoted text - ironjustice@aol.com - 24 Mar 2008 21:11 GMT Hey, this has gone far enough! Debra is NOT a newbie, and I remember her sweet self many years ago on AMF. She encourages others, she's funny, and she's great at "virtual" party times :-) She has also known sorrow and pain over the years. She is my friend. Nanny <<
She seems to have picked up on alot of the tricks perpetrated out of this group .. haven't they ..
You must have taught her some of your screwball .. recipes .. ----------------------------- These people have a .. strategy .. a plan they use ..
First they target specific people .. and firebomb them with emails .. they conjure up new alias' and firebomb them some more .. then they firebomb the servers of the people they dislike ..
Then if this doesn't work then they pull out the big guns .. they change the title of the thread and begin to talk about .. recipes..
Now isn't it a coincidence 'Debra' cannot remember this group from three years ago , how she mentioned changing the title .. and NOW .. she changes the thread to .. apple pie .. ?
Remember I mentioned .. "which cow is next" .. ?
Ask her to moo for ya ..
She can .. moooo .. real good ..
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
They have even
"ironjustice" <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d7de502c-88e0-481c-bddd-eb976317aeb7@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > On Mar 21, 3:53 pm, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:I've Just Arrived [quoted text clipped - 303 lines] > > > - Show quoted text - J666 - 24 Mar 2008 21:47 GMT On Mar 24, 3:11 pm, "ironinjust...
Chung has a 2 million dollar guaranteeing his 2Pounder, do you at least have an iron-clad guarantee about what you say?
ironjustice@aol.com - 25 Mar 2008 03:24 GMT On Mar 24, 1:47 pm, J666 <jeaa...@gmail.com> wrote: On Mar 24, 3:11 pm, "ironinjust... Chung has a 2 million dollar guaranteeing his 2Pounder, do you at least have an iron-clad guarantee about what you say? <<
http://tinyurl.com/2fuqy5
Compliments of KSama ..
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
J666 - 25 Mar 2008 03:40 GMT I guess you do not have an iron-clad guarantee - well if Chung can offer 2 million dollars and you cannot even offer an iron-clad guarantee, then you obviously do not full believe in the truth of what you say, so neither should anyone else.
It does seem you have a multiple personality psychiatric problem - any loony groups for you and Chung?
On Mar 24, 9:24 pm, "ironjust...@aol.com" <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Mar 24, 1:47 pm, J666 <jeaa...@gmail.com> wrote: On Mar 24, 3:11 > pm, "ironinjust... [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk ironjustice@aol.com - 25 Mar 2008 04:11 GMT On Mar 24, 7:40 pm, J666 <jeaa...@gmail.com> wrote: guarantee <<
Has this got something to do with phytate or bread or plants or iron binding substances or anything about this thread .. at .. all .. ?
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> I guess you do not have an iron-clad guarantee - well if Chung can > offer 2 million dollars and you cannot even offer an iron-clad [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > - Show quoted text - J666 - 25 Mar 2008 04:17 GMT On Mar 24, 10:11 pm, "ironjust...
> Has this got something to do with phytate or bread or plants or iron
> binding substances or anything about this thread .. at .. all .. ? No, just seems you have a "one track" mind and so was wondering how sure you were of what you were saying.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 25 Mar 2008 07:17 GMT http://HeartMDPhD.com/Squirmingsatan
Paul T. Holland - 24 Mar 2008 20:24 GMT > Do you know .. diana .. ? i doubt it, but i bet she knows the pieman!
> Tom > [quoted text clipped - 288 lines] > > > > - Show quoted text - Tiger_Lily - 22 Mar 2008 01:38 GMT > Ummm Tom, > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Take care and be well out there! Debra Debra......... ironjustice aka Tom is a troll
most of us have put him in our killfile
kate
ironjustice - 22 Mar 2008 02:39 GMT On Mar 21, 5:38 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:Debra......... ironjustice aka Tom is a troll <<
How long you been here .. ?
If you can call ME .. a .. troll .. so what do I get to call .. you .. ?
Should I think of something .. ?
How about ..
Eat .. me ..
My thread .. stay the fk off it ..
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> > Ummm Tom, > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Tiger_Lily - 22 Mar 2008 02:43 GMT > On Mar 21, 5:38 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:Debra......... > ironjustice aka Tom is a troll << [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] >> >> - Show quoted text - awwwwwwwwww Tommy has a hissy fit, it's now "HIS" thread and he's giving orders as to who can post to it
YOU are a TROLL Tom....... have been for years....... it's amazing they haven't locked you up yet............ or have they?
ironjustice - 22 Mar 2008 03:15 GMT On Mar 21, 6:43 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:"HIS" thread and he's giving orders as to who can post to it ><<
Eat .. me ... My thread .. stay the fk off it
You seem to have a problem with .. me .. specifically .. do ya .. ?
And why is that .. ?
Pray .. tell ..
YOU came onto MY thread and call me a fkg ahole and I'm supposed to take that from the likes of .. you .. ?
YOU .. ?
Cold day there .. baby ..
EAT me .. understand .. you .. cow .. ?
Eh .. do ya .. ?
On Mar 21, 6:43 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:"it's amazing they haven't locked you up yet <<
You've been an abuser for alot of years .. haven't ya ..
Funny nobody has .. KILLED .. you .. yet ..
Being most of us live in the .. real world .. eh ..
Heh .. heh ..
You nutbar ..
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> > On Mar 21, 5:38 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:Debra......... > > ironjustice aka Tom is a troll << [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Michael B - 22 Mar 2008 03:22 GMT Ironjustice is an individual with an excessive number of periods.
> On Mar 21, 6:43 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:"HIS" thread > and he's giving [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Eh .. do ya .. ? nanny - 24 Mar 2008 16:44 GMT big grin! Nanny
> Ironjustice is an individual with an excessive number of periods. > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> >> Eh .. do ya .. ? Paul T. Holland - 24 Mar 2008 20:29 GMT > On Mar 21, 6:43 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:"HIS" thread > and he's giving [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > YOU came onto MY thread and call me a fkg ahole and I'm supposed to > take that from the likes of .. you .. ? ah...except tl didn't call you a >fkg ahole tl called you a >TROLL
you are the one using scatological obscenities
> YOU .. ? > [quoted text clipped - 101 lines] > > > > - Show quoted text - DonnaB shallotpeel - 24 Mar 2008 20:40 GMT Please consider removing alt.support.diabetes from these cross-posts that have nothing to do with us. Thank you. DonnaB
Followup Reset.
In alt.support.diabetes on Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:29:45 GMT in Msg.# <47E801D4.2EED2492@bellatlantic.net>, "Paul T. Holland" <pholland@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
> > On Mar 21, 6:43 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:"HIS" thread > > and he's giving [quoted text clipped - 122 lines] > > > > > > - Show quoted text - Paul T. Holland - 24 Mar 2008 20:26 GMT nope tom
it's not 'your' thread -
it a post in usenet on an unmoderated group
that means folk can reply to any part, or add to it as they see it.
you don't own a thread and being hostile won't get you what you want.
> On Mar 21, 5:38 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:Debra......... > ironjustice aka Tom is a troll << [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > > > - Show quoted text - ironjustice@aol.com - 24 Mar 2008 20:56 GMT On Mar 24, 12:26 pm, "Paul T. Holland" <pholl...@bellatlantic.net> wrote: nope tom it's not 'your' thread - <<
Who's it it .. yours .. ?
Two-bit .. cows .. ?
YOU fit right in there .. don't ya .. Holland ..
Must make it real easy with your lack of testosterone to .. moooo .. just right .. eh ..
Heh .. heh ..
Hypothyroid .. Holland ..
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
Evelyn Ruut - 22 Mar 2008 11:51 GMT Deb,
Tom is a well known troll. He frequents all the support newsgroup and annoys people. Almost everyone has him in their killfile. Don't rely on him as a source of reliable information.
 Signature Best Regards,
Evelyn
On Mar 21, 9:56 am, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 21, 6:18 am, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:Gosh, this thread > should turn into a Synthroid thread. That way we [quoted text clipped - 235 lines] > > read more »... Ummm Tom,
Because I don't know you and you don't know me (unless you've posted under a different addy many years ago)....I'm extending my hand out to ya in the form of cyber-friendship. I'm gonna bake you two apple pies!
I haven't stated that I'm a newbie. I am new to the GMAIL and the new TN Group. I'm new to learning how to do things with posting etc. I haven't mastered the cut/paste or snip yet. That's all I've stated regarding being new at anything.
Please check out my original posting of: I've Just Arrived and I Don't Know Where I've Landed
I've not posted to the newsgroups for many years. At least three. Ok, maybe 2 1/2.
My former addy was: Alrhody Please check out my postings under this.
Please go and check it out. I checked it out a few days ago, and to tell you the truth...I did cry. They were not happy tears either.
I cried because of the fun being taken out of here. I cried because I miss my buddy Moe. Whom, along with my husband, attended her funeral. You might even go far back enough to read about the death of my brother....I didn't want to bring this up. It's just documentation for you to read, due to your suspicions.
As far as me asking to have this thread moved, regarding Synthroid. The subject has taken up your thread. I caused this to happen and I'm very...very sorry that I have.
There is really nothing more that I can say or do......so;
Gonna go and start the apple pie baking.....
Take care and be well out there! Debra
ironjustice - 22 Mar 2008 14:59 GMT On Mar 22, 3:51 am, "Evelyn Ruut" <evelyn.r...@gmail.com> wrote:On Mar 21, 6:43 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> Tom is a well known troll. <<
Eat .. me ... My thread .. stay the fk off it
YOU are a well known .. cow .. and have been a cow for most likely all of your life ..
The ONLY contribution I have seen you EVER .. attempt .. is .. ?
Jeez .. you know I can't remember you EVER contributing a .. thing ..
Not a single thing .. in ALL the years I've been here ..
You know in a few years you think even a useless shtbg like.. you .. would have at least contributed .. once ..
But nooooo .. same sht .. different day .. eh .. cow ..
I guess I can expect another well known cow to come along ..
Eh ..
Which cow is .. next ..
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
wrote:"HIS" thread and he's giving orders as to who can post to it ><<
Eat .. me ... My thread .. stay the fk off it
You seem to have a problem with .. me .. specifically .. do ya .. ?
And why is that .. ?
Pray .. tell ..
YOU came onto MY thread and call me a fkg ahole and I'm supposed to take that from the likes of .. you .. ?
YOU .. ?
Cold day there .. baby ..
EAT me .. understand .. you .. cow .. ?
Eh .. do ya .. ?
On Mar 21, 6:43 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:"it's amazing they haven't locked you up yet <<
You've been an abuser for alot of years .. haven't ya ..
Funny nobody has .. KILLED .. you .. yet ..
Being most of us live in the .. real world .. eh ..
Heh .. heh ..
You nutbar ..
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> Deb, > [quoted text clipped - 232 lines] > > - Show quoted text - 00doc - 22 Mar 2008 14:01 GMT Ummm Tom,
Because I don't know you and you don't know me (unless you've posted under a different addy many years ago)....I'm extending my hand out to ya in the form of cyber-friendship. I'm gonna bake you two apple pies!
I haven't stated that I'm a newbie. I am new to the GMAIL and the new TN Group. I'm new to learning how to do things with posting etc. I haven't mastered the cut/paste or snip yet. That's all I've stated regarding being new at anything.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tom is a well known Internet loon/troll. The first thing you need to learn is to not feed the trolls. Please stop replying to him. He has no interest in any rational discussion.
 Signature 00doc
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 22 Mar 2008 14:12 GMT > Ummm Tom, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > is to not feed the trolls. Please stop replying to him. He has no interest > in any rational discussion. As if you, by engaging in name-calling, were showing an interest in rational discussion.
Matthew 7 comes to mind here.
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic:
http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy
Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow
ironjustice - 22 Mar 2008 15:07 GMT On Mar 22, 6:01 am, "00doc" <00...@comcast.net> wrote:Tom is a well known Internet loon/troll. <<
Aren't you a long time member of the asthma group .. ?
He likes to make like he is something other than .. a .. poser .. a two-bit little .. poser ..
You didn't say much about my last asthma post did ya .. poser ..
Heh .. heh ..
Now .. fkff .. you are too much of a .. **pussy** ..
And we both KNOW how much I like people like yourself ..
I ain't alone there .. buddy ..
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> Ummm Tom, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > -- > 00doc J666 - 22 Mar 2008 16:05 GMT On Mar 22, 8:59 am, ironjustice
"YOU are a well known .. cow .. and have been a cow for most likely all of your life .."
On Mar 22, 9:07 am, ironjustice "Now .. fkff .. you are too much of a .. **pussy** .."
The intellect and wisdom and the adult maturity of ironjustice as work. At like Chung, you are consistent in your way of responding - you give personal insults and Chung/Holy Spirit convicts.
ironjustice - 22 Mar 2008 18:02 GMT On Mar 22, 8:05 am, J666 <jeaa...@gmail.com> wrote:The intellect and wisdom and the adult maturity of ironjustice as work. <<
I'll teach you a word .. a .. extensively used .. term ..
Extrapolation ..
Let me give you an analogy ..
Extrapolate THIS .. from the cows .. to YOU ..
"Now .. fkff .. you are too much of a .. **pussy** .."
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> On Mar 22, 8:59 am, ironjustice > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > work. At like Chung, you are consistent in your way of responding - > you give personal insults and Chung/Holy Spirit convicts. J666 - 22 Mar 2008 18:23 GMT On Mar 22, 12:02 pm, ironjustice
> I'll teach you a word .. a .. extensively used .. term .. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > "Now .. fkff .. you are too much of a .. **pussy** .." LOL when people try to be insulting as a substitute for intelligent discourse - of you view yourself as sophisticated and witty, but are really an immature fool.
I'll leave the last, no doubt some other childish insult, response to you. Looking forward to another chuckle with your response. At least your responses can be viewed with humor, compared to your compatriot Chung.
ironjustice - 22 Mar 2008 18:53 GMT On Mar 22, 10:23 am, J666 <jeaa...@gmail.com> wrote:At least your responses can be viewed with humor, compared to your compatriot Chung. <<
I'll have to look up .. compatriot .. but .. chung is deluded ..
He doesn't believe man is a herbivore and that iron reduction is the ONLY way to restore health ..
He KNOWS and has shown his method .. works .. in reduction of disease.
You don't seem to like the fact he is kinda preachy about it ..
Sooo .. he thinks diet restriction works .. and it **does** ..
Me .. you can eat plants till the cows .. come .. home.
Sooo .. chung says .. "no .. stop eating that carrot" .. and I say .. eat the carrot ..
You see how that works ..
He and I are not much alike at'all ..
Diet restriction is shown to reduce body fat and healthy up the heart ..
It works in animals ..
Man is an animal ..
Write that down ..
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> On Mar 22, 12:02 pm, ironjustice > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > your responses can be viewed with humor, compared to your compatriot > Chung. mortonmullens@hotmail.com - 22 Mar 2008 19:18 GMT On Mar 22, 12:53 pm, ironjustice
> He and I are not much alike at'all ..
You and Chung basically say different things but you both are blind- sided to anything else. Everything, and I mean everything, is about iron with you just as everything is about the 2PD stuff with Chung. So the words may be different, but the mental process is the same between you and Chung. I am sure neither of you will recognize that. Most people who are so one-sided, who wear blinders that only allow a narrow point of view, are incapable of recognizing that. If they could recognize that, then they would not be so one-sided.
ironjustice - 22 Mar 2008 19:28 GMT On Mar 22, 11:18 am, mortonmull...@hotmail.com wrote:If they could recognize that, then they would not be so one-sided. <<
Yeah .. like people who got something against .. religion ..
Is that about .. right .. ?
Keep it in alt.religion ..
If chungs sig says something about religion .. big .. deal ..
His constant .. rebukes .. seem to emanate only when .. provoked ..
Sorta .. like a .. puffball ..
Sooo .. his method .. works ..
Simple ..
As far as I can see ..
He may not have as many studies as one might like .. but his IS a doctor .. and he should be .. with that alone .. be allowed his opinion .. in medical groups .. ?
Should we ask the .. nurses .. ? .. how about MOST of the .. patients .. ?
Did you take seven years of your life and pass the .. bar .. ?
Did you even .. contemplate ON that .. bar .. ?
Walk up to that .. bar.
Now could you jump that .. bar.. ?
Chung .. **did** ..
It's called .. **deserving** OF .. **respect** .. sorta .. like .. merit ..
Not quite as .. good ..
But .. almost ..
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> On Mar 22, 12:53 pm, ironjustice > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > narrow point of view, are incapable of recognizing that. If they > could recognize that, then they would not be so one-sided. J666 - 22 Mar 2008 19:37 GMT On Mar 22, 1:18 pm, mortonmull...
> You and Chung basically say different things but you both are blind- > sided to anything else. Everything, and I mean everything, is about [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > narrow point of view, are incapable of recognizing that. If they > could recognize that, then they would not be so one-sided. You have defined an important characteristic of fanatics. You are correct in that fanatics can never comprehend their own fanaticism but can with other fanatics who do not agree 100%.
As long as they do no harm, they can be quite amusing as they try to answer or ignore questions or justify their views.
Fortunately few here follow their advice, or even read their posts, and at least Chung, with his MD degree, does not seem to be taking care of patients.
ironjustice - 23 Mar 2008 05:03 GMT On Mar 22, 11:37 am, J666 <jeaa...@gmail.com> wrote:You have defined an important characteristic of fanatics. You are correct in that fanatics can never comprehend their own fanaticism but can with other fanatics who do not agree 100%.<<
I think YOU probably understand whatyou just said but .. I .. don't ..
On Mar 22, 11:37 am, J666 <jeaa...@gmail.com> wrote: As long as they do no harm, they can be quite amusing as they try to answer or ignore questions or justify their views. <<
YOU decide who is causing harm .. ?
A two-bit bich on the internet .. ?
On Mar 22, 11:37 am, J666 <jeaa...@gmail.com> wrote: Fortunately few here follow their advice, or even read their posts, and at least Chung, with his MD degree, does not seem to be taking care of patients. <<
Well in their field .. doctors .. it seems their success is based on time .. off ..
Sooo .. chung is doing pretty good ..
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> On Mar 22, 1:18 pm, mortonmull... > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > and at least Chung, with his MD degree, does not seem to be taking > care of patients. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 22 Mar 2008 20:34 GMT > satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) hissed: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I'll have to look up .. compatriot .. but .. chung is deluded .. The latter would require believing something to be true that is not.
> He doesn't believe man is a herbivore Correct. Physiologically, humans are omnivores.
> and that iron reduction is the ONLY way to restore health .. Not for those with normal to low iron stores.
> He KNOWS and has shown his method .. works .. in reduction of disease. The 2PD-OMER Approach is not my method but rather by GOD's design (Exodus 16:16).
Laus Deo ! ! !
http://HeartMDPhD.com/LausDeo
Moreover, those who eat less, down to the optimal amount will automatically reduce their iron intake.
> You don't seem to like the fact he is kinda preachy about it .. Though irresistibly drawn to the light of the truth, Who is LORD Jesus Christ...
... the creatures of darkness are also bothered by the same light.
> Sooo .. he thinks diet restriction works .. and it **does** .. Eating the optimal amount of food per day is not a diet restriction but rather guidance toward doing what is right.
> Me .. you can eat plants till the cows .. come .. home. Perhaps if you are a cow slated for slaughter:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Parable
> Sooo .. chung says .. "no .. stop eating that carrot" .. and I say .. > eat the carrot .. Actually, you may eat the carrot as long as you weigh it with the rest of your meals to make sure you intake is the optimal 32 ounces per day:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeSmart
> You see how that works .. It is simple but will not be easy until GOD heals your heart of the world's lie that "hunger is bad."
Moreover, the world will try to undermine what GOD has done for you:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/StrongMan
> He and I are not much alike at'all .. Except for possibly our faith in LORD Jesus Christ:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/JesusChrist
> Diet restriction is shown to reduce body fat and healthy up the > heart .. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Write that down .. There is a 2 million dollar guarantee for the skeptics and scoffers:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Guarantee
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Guarantee/Criteria
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic:
http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy
Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow
J666 - 22 Mar 2008 21:06 GMT On Mar 22, 2:34 pm, "Andrew Liar
> The 2PD-OMER Approach is not my method but rather by GOD's design > (Exodus 16:16). God instructed Moses about an Omer, a volume not a weight, of manna, not any food.
Since you wrongly keep asserting the 2 pounds, then at least please answer how the 2 pounds is determine when weight varies with altitude and what is the calibration of scales based on. If you have no answer, then your Approach is flawed.
From another post:
Since the gravitational constant (g) depends on the square of the distance from the center of the earth, the weight of an object decreases with altitude.
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/wteq.html
So it is legitimate to ask just what is 2 pounds where it can vary by altitude.
What is the standard - at what altitude is the 2 pounds set - the level of the desert where Moses et al wandered and got the manna from God?
What is the level of accuracy of the scale that is needed - scales have variation and where is the scale against which all others are compared
How is the weight adjusted taking into account the variation of altitude.
What is the variation, either more or less, than what ever is the standard for 2 pounds at the correct altitude weighed on the correct scale, is allowable and be in conformity with the 2PD Omer Approach.
yamantaka@aol.com - 22 Mar 2008 22:45 GMT On Mar 22, 12:34 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
> >IronJusticequipped, " I'll have to look up .. compatriot .. but .. chung is deluded .." > > Chung spewed," The latter would require believing something to be true that is not. Incorrect. Delusional means that you have a chronic, rigid belief in an idea that is not held to be true by the rest of the general population. You, Chung have proven yourself to be delusional. Therefore, you are deluded.
> The 2PD-OMER Approach is not my method but rather by GOD's design > (Exodus 16:16). Incorrect. The 2PD-OMER Approach is something that you have designed, Chung. It is not what is mentioned in Exodus 16:16. You have the delusional idea that an omer is 2 lbs, when all Biblical scholars assert that it is a measure of volume, not weight.
Exodus 16:16 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
16:16 This is what the LORD has commanded: 'Each one is to gather as much as he needs. Take an omer [a] for each person you have in your tent.' "
Footnotes:
Exodus 16:16 That is, probably about 2 quarts (about 2 liters also in verses 18, 32, 33 and 36
> Eating the optimal amount of food per day is not a diet restriction > but rather guidance toward doing what is right. Okay, we all agree that most people should eat less. But no one agrees that 2 lbs a day of any food is optimal for everyone.
> There is a 2 million dollar guarantee for the skeptics and scoffers: You lie about that Chung, just like you lie about having sold the domain name emorycardiology.com for 1 million dollars last year. Plus, if one reads the requirements to be eligeble for the reward, they are such that no one could meet them. You require five years of records.
You have never given one shred of verifiable evidence to support any of your bogus claims. This is dishonest and against the guidelines of the Georgia Medical Board.
ironjustice - 23 Mar 2008 05:21 GMT On Mar 22, 12:34 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:The latter would require believing something to be true that is not. <<
You believe man is an omnivore ..
On Mar 22, 12:34 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: Not for those with normal to low iron stores.<<
The evidence shows by lowering iron levels / blood donation in those with what you / they consider to BE "normal to low iron stores" results in better markers. Whether it be the decreased viscosity or the lesser oxidation but the markers say recovery.
On Mar 22, 12:34 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: Moreover, those who eat less, down to the optimal amount will automatically reduce their iron intake. <<
Ah .. if one goes on a Atkin's type two pound diet from a vegetable based two and a half pound diet .. the dietary iron PRESENTED will increase PLUS the absorbable iron will increase .. giving .. iron increased twopounddiet.
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> > satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) hissed: > [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] > Lawful steward ofhttp://EmoryCardiology.com > A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords.http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 23 Mar 2008 08:28 GMT > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > > The latter would require believing something to be true that is not. > > You believe man is an omnivore .. Man is able to eat all variety of foods.
This would define him as an omnivore.
> > Not for those with normal to low iron stores. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Whether it be the decreased viscosity or the lesser oxidation but the > markers say recovery. The anemia with microcytosis especially in the setting of high output cardiac failure would indicates decompensation rather than recovery.
> > Moreover, those who eat less, > > down to the optimal amount will automatically reduce their iron [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > increase PLUS the absorbable iron will increase .. giving .. iron > increased twopounddiet. The 2PD-OMER Approach is not a diet nor does it involve a change in diet.
Given no change in diet, a person eating less down the the right amount per the 2PD-OMER Approach will automatically reduce their iron intake.
Truth is simple.
May you and other dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful 2008th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as the Son of Man ...
... by being hungrier:
http://TruthRUS.org/KnowingGOD
Hunger is wonderful:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Hunger
It's how we know what GOD wants, which is what is good.
Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve paid for with their and our immortal lives.
Those who suffer from the powerful delusion predicted by the prophecy of 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11 would deny this and perish ( gone !!! ) forever ...
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyOne
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyTwo
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyThree
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyFour
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Bob
... gone:
http://YouTube.com/watch?v=Qb6d_z5C35E
Such will be the demise of all those who refuse to know **and** love the truth, Who is LORD Jesus Christ:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love/TheTruth
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/BeBlessed
"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...
... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)
Amen.
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Luke6_21
A simple parable for the wise and discerning:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Parable
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic:
http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy
Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow
ironjustice - 23 Mar 2008 15:33 GMT On Mar 23, 12:28 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:The anemia with microcytosis especially in the setting of high output cardiac failure would indicates decompensation rather than recovery. <<
Which seems to be very similar to microcytosis of vitamin E deficiency / hemolytic anemia .. BUT again .. we weren't talking about anyone sick. We are talking about everyday normal joes .. with no diseases other than the increased sensitivity to insulin found in the meat eaters. . When their iron was lowered they had recovery.
"it seems that reduced insulin sensitivity in meat-eaters is amenable to improvement by reducing body Fe"
Br J Nutr 2001 Oct;86(4):515-9
Low iron status and enhanced insulin sensitivity in lacto-ovo vegetarians.
Hua NW, Stoohs RA, Facchini FS
Department of Medicine, Division of Nephrology, San Francisco General Hospital, San Francisco, CA, USA.
[Medline record in process]
The efficacy of insulin in stimulating whole-body glucose disposal (insulin sensitivity) was quantified using direct methodology in thirty lacto-ovo vegetarians and in thirty meat-eaters. All subjects were adult, lean (BMI <23 kg/m2), healthy and glucose tolerant. Lacto-ovo vegetarians were more insulin sensitive than meat- eaters, with a steady-state plasma glucose (mmol/l) of 4.1 (95 % CI 3.5, 5.0) v. 6.9 (95 % CI 5.2, 7.5; respectively. In addition, lacto-ovo vegetarians had lower body Fe stores, as indicated by a serum ferritin concentration (mg/l) of 35 (95 % CI 21, 49) compared with 72 (95 % CI 45, 100) for meat-eaters To test whether or not Fe status might modulate insulin sensitivity, body Fe was lowered by phlebotomy in six male meat-eaters to levels similar to that seen in vegetarians, with a resultant approximately 40 % enhancement of insulin-mediated glucose disposal Our results demonstrate that lacto-ovo vegetarians are more insulin sensitive and have lower Fe stores than meat-eaters. In addition, it seems that reduced insulin sensitivity in meat-eaters is amenable to improvement by reducing body Fe. The latter finding is in agreement with results from animal studies where, no matter how induced, Fe depletion consistently enhanced glucose disposal.
PMID: 11591239, UI: 21475355 _________________________________________________________________
On Mar 23, 12:28 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:Given no change in diet, a person eating less down the the right amount per the 2PD-OMER Approach will automatically reduce their iron intake. <<
In a perfect .. world ..
BUT .. this guy isn't perfect .. HE decided TO go atkins from his two and a half pound intake TO .. your .. twopounddiet.
Sooo .. his previous diet of 2 and 1/2 pounds of vegetables have a certain amount of absorbable .. iron. WHEN he switched to this less weight diet of 2 pounds of meat the absorbable iron goes WAY up because he is no longer eating foods which have iron inhibitors in it ..
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 103 lines] > Lawful steward ofhttp://EmoryCardiology.com > A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords.http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 23 Mar 2008 23:15 GMT > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] |
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