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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / April 2008

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Bread and Plants

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ironjustice - 19 Mar 2008 09:54 GMT
IP6 is phytate / phytic acid found in  the chaff of your grains and
other plants.
Anthocyanins are all those colors you see in your plants.

"IP6 enhances gastrointestinal absorption of anthocyanins"

Enhanced absorption of anthocyanins after oral administration of
phytic acid in rats and humans. Mar 21, 2007
Hitoshi Matsumoto,Kyoko Ito,Kumiko Yonekura,Takanori Tsuda,Takashi
Ichiyanagi,Masao Hirayama,Tetsuya Konishi
Many studies on the bioavailability of polyphenols have been
reported.
However, the relative urinary excretions of AC are also low, ranging
from 0.004% to 0.1%. By contrast, other polyphenols show higher
urinary excretion levels.
Here, we studied the enhancing effects of phytic acid (IP6) on
absorption of blackcurrant anthocyanins (BCAs) in rats and humans.
In rats after oral administration of BCAs (as 241 mg of AC/kg body
weight) in IP6 (0%, 0.25%, 0.5%, 1%, 2.5%) solution, the ACs recovery
in urine was increased dependent on IP6 dose. These results suggest
that the IP6 enhances gastrointestinal absorption of ACs.
At the further analysis of IP6 enhancement effect in rat, whereas BCAs
were normally passed through the stomach and duodenum within 2 h, in
IP6 group, after 2-6 h post-administration, stomach and jejunum
content's weights were specifically heavy, and large amounts of ACs
were also detected in stomach, duodenum, and jejunum.
These results suggested that the mixture of BCAs and IP6 reduced the
gastrointestinal motility. Prolongation of ACs residue in
gastrointestinal tract then caused the enhancing effects of IP6 on
absorption of AC.
In the human study, each subject was orally administrated a BCA
beverage containing BCA concentrate (AC 4 mg/kg body weight), 1% of
IP6, and 1% of sodium citrate as a pH stabilizer. Both the plasma
level and the urinary excretion of AC were increased as compared to
BCA administration without IP6.
AC intake with IP6 may increase the bioavailability of AC to the
comparative level as other polyphenols.
Yet, phytic acid, being a strong chelator of important minerals,
contributes to mineral deficiencies.
An interference with iron uptake has been reported. Safety tests are
therefore necessary before high dose IP6 can be used in foods.

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
dar - 19 Mar 2008 15:41 GMT
> IP6 is phytate / phytic acid found in  the chaff of your grains and
> other plants.
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>
> DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

Hey Tom,

Sorry, can't do the iron thingy......especially when one's on
Synthroid!

I thought that Jesus and his family ate lamb....isn't he the lamb of
God?

As far as; grains are concerned.....they can really do a number on
folks that have an allergy to them!  I ought to know, I'm one of
them.....

Oh well, thanks for your interesting post!

Take care and be well out there!  Debra
ironjustice@aol.com - 19 Mar 2008 16:12 GMT
On Mar 19, 7:41 am, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:Hey Tom,
Sorry, can't do the iron thingy......especially when one's on
Synthroid! <<

You have no clue what this iron .. "thingy" .. is .

Maybe you should at least HAVE a .. clue .. **before** you say
anything about .. anything ..

That is sorta how .. life .. works .. and one might think when one
gets to be your age .. you would have figured out how life works by ..
now ..

But there is no accounting for .. fill in the blank.

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> > IP6 is phytate / phytic acid found in  the chaff of your grains and
> > other plants.
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
dar - 19 Mar 2008 23:08 GMT
On Mar 19, 10:12 am, "ironjust...@aol.com" <ironjust...@aol.com>
wrote:
> On Mar 19, 7:41 am, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:Hey Tom,
>  Sorry, can't do the iron thingy......especially when one's on
[quoted text clipped - 90 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hey Tom!

Here's three of my clue's:

1.  The irony thing, was a mistake on my part....my brain kept looking
at your addy and I thought...hmmmm Iron.  Do not take Iron while on
Synthroid!  It was a brain freeze that got frozen and wouldn't melt!
I apologize for this.

2.  Age is purely a state of mind.  I wonder what state your mind is
currently in, at your age?

3.  Who loves me?  Why Kojak does (I could go for a lolly right about
now!), amongst many others.....

Take care and be well out there!  Debra
Michael B - 20 Mar 2008 03:28 GMT
A reminder-
This brings up a topic that I'd like to assume most hypothyroid
folks are familiar with.

There isn't a dictum against taking iron while supplementing
thyroid, it's against CONCURRENT iron supplementation.
There needs to be at least four hours time between the two,
with the thyroid supplement being first.

The thing that a lot of hypothyroid people ignore is the amount
of iron in typical breakfast stuff, even Cream of Wheat. If vitamins
have been added, iron probably has been, too. And a lot of it is
"elemental iron", which means it's been ground down in its
elemental form till it's less than 14 microns in size, and gets
delivered for 'slow release' with the Raisin Bran or whatever. So
the "iron thing" has been done, even if it's not in your Geritol.

So watch out for the sneaky iron thing. Some women have the
notion that they can't have iron, and that's not true. But they need
to be very careful about the timing for their iron, even if it's
dietary
iron instead of the tablets of iron supplement, And certainly, most
women do indeed need their iron, despite proposals of a crusader
against it. But indeed, it's better to include iron supplementation
only when it has been noted as needed. Because the body doesn't
deal well with excessive metals, including iron.

On Mar 19, 7:41 am, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:Hey Tom,
> >  Sorry, can't do the iron thingy......especially when one's on
> >  Synthroid! <<
ironjustice - 20 Mar 2008 15:34 GMT
On Mar 19, 7:28 pm, Michael B <baugh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:And
certainly, most
women do indeed need their iron, despite proposals of a crusader
against it <<

This may the science subspecialty to which you are more suited since
you know very little about .. nutrition.

Influence of bovine manure on dissipation of hexazinone in soil.
[JOURNAL ARTICLE]
Ecotoxicol Environ Saf 2008 Mar 15.
Wang H, Li Y, Lu Y, Huang C, Zhang M, Wang X

The effects of bovine manure (BM) on the degradation of hexazinone and
formation of three of its major metabolites were investigated in sandy
loam soil.
The degradation half-life of hexazinone was 29.6 days in unamended
soil, while it decreased to 21.8 days in BM-amended soil.
The major metabolites formed in unamended soil were [3-cyclohexyl-6-
(methylamino)-1-methyl-1,3,5-triazine-2,4(1, 3H)-dione] (metabolite A)
and [3-cyclohexyl-1-methyl-1,3,5-triazine-2,4,6(1, 3, 5H)-trione]
(metabolite C), while metabolite B [3-(4-hydroxycyclohexyl)-6-
(dimethylamino)-1-methyl-1,3,5-triazine-2,4(1, 3H)-dione] was not
detected over the entire experimental period.
However, in BM-amended soil, metabolite B was detected at 20 and 40
days after incubation, suggesting that BM contributed to formation of
this metabolite. N-demethylation, removal of the dimethylamino group
with formation of a carbonyl group at the 6-position of the triazine
ring appeared to be the principal mechanisms involved in hexazinone
metabolism in unamended soil.
However, hydroxylation at the 4-positon of the cyclohexyl group as
well as the above two modes were the principal pathways in BM-amended
soil.
Ecotoxicology and environmental safety [Ecotoxicol Environ Saf]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> A reminder-
> This brings up a topic that I'd like to assume most hypothyroid
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
dar - 20 Mar 2008 20:59 GMT
> A reminder-
> This brings up a topic that I'd like to assume most hypothyroid
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Michael,

Thank you, thank you, thank you.....!

If everyone looked at my posting and follow-up, they'd see that I
posted that, I personally can not take Iron with Synthroid.

No one knows what the other mitigating factors are regarding my
medical history and the other medications that I take throughout the
day. Nor does anyone know my severe allergic reactions to medications,
and food etc.  I, Debra, can not take Synthroid and Iron....!!!!  :-))

Having said that....those of you that do take your Synthroid and Iron,
do what your physician has told you to do.

I'm truly sorry to ever have posted what I posted.  I apologized to
Tom, about the Iron thingy. It was never, ever to have any scientific
value.....

Whew!  I'm all tired out now. Hahaha!

Time to take a snooze.....or eat an apple.  I'm sure I can eat an
apple as I took my Synthroid a long time ago......  Please, no one
reply to this one.....!!!  If you do, I'm gonna bake you an apple pie,
and you're gonna have to eat it after you've taken your Synthroid!

Take care and be well out there!  Debra
Michael B - 20 Mar 2008 23:56 GMT
So, Debra, how are your morning cortisols?

I prefer the apples to be a bit tart, if ya please.

> Whew!  I'm all tired out now. Hahaha!
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Take care and be well out there!  Debra
dar - 21 Mar 2008 14:12 GMT
> So, Debra, how are your morning cortisols?
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Michael,

Hahhaa!  In your case you're going to get a macintosh tart!

Take care and be well out there!  Debra
nanny - 24 Mar 2008 16:53 GMT
Debra, if it's not asking too much, can you make me a macintosh tart - with
lots of sugar? ;-)  Nanny
> So, Debra, how are your morning cortisols?
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Michael,

Hahhaa!  In your case you're going to get a macintosh tart!

Take care and be well out there!  Debra
dar - 21 Mar 2008 14:22 GMT
> So, Debra, how are your morning cortisols?
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Michael,

I forgot....  The morning cortisols. I'm having to do the 24 hour
cortisol testing next week.  The 24 hour catching of urine, and the
blood drawing 2x day.  Morning and afternoon.

Take care and be well out there!  Debra
DonnaB shallotpeel - 22 Mar 2008 19:48 GMT
In alt.support.diabetes on Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:28:17 -0700 (PDT) in Msg.#
<11e53726-32b0-4461-b1b9-026dcd23c2ef@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Michael
B <baughfam@bellsouth.net>  wrote:

> A reminder-
> This brings up a topic that I'd like to assume most hypothyroid
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> There needs to be at least four hours time between the two,
> with the thyroid supplement being first. ...

The newsgroups that this stuff is being cross-posted to are:  sci.med,
alt.med.fibromyalgia, alt.support.diabetes, sci.med.cardiology,
alt.support.asthma ...

I'm posting from ASD, alt.support.diabetes and I'm not finding much reason
to read this thread or portions of the one it sprung from. I also have
severe allergies (MCS) and asthma, although my asthma is nothing compared to
some people's. Can anyone tell me what I might be missing here? Can anyone
tell me why ASD is included here? Thanks.

Signature

DonnaB  shallotpeel  USA  sad to hear of the death of Arthur C. Clarke
06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 HbA1c 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg
Current ................... HbA1c 6.3

"There is hopeful symbolism in the fact that flags do not wave in a vacuum."
- Arthur C. Clarke (12/17/1917 - 03/18/2008)

J666 - 22 Mar 2008 20:04 GMT
On Mar 22, 1:48 pm, DonnaB shallotpeel

 >Can anyone
 > tell me why ASD is included here? Thanks.

The reason for that is in the mind of the original poster who sent it
to those groups. After that, often the replies get sent to all the
groups.

Some who "preach" a certain idea may feel they are doing everyone a
favor by spreading their word - whether it is spreading a word or
spreading manure, each person can decide for themselves
ironjustice - 23 Mar 2008 05:08 GMT
On Mar 22, 11:48 am, DonnaB shallotpeel <shallotp...@comcast.net>
wrote:I'm posting from ASD, alt.support.diabetes and I'm not finding
much reason to read this thread or portions of the one it sprung from.
I also have severe allergies (MCS) and asthma, although my asthma is
nothing compared to some people's. Can anyone tell me what I might be
missing here? Can anyone tell me why ASD is included here? Thanks.<<

Iron increased iron causes erythrocytosis .. too many red blood cells.

Erythrocytosis .. is found in diabetes and in asthma.

Increased iron is found in diabetes and in asthma.

Allergies are hypothesised to be caused by increased iron .. evidenced
by the fact they are using / adding phytic acid an extremely good
natural iron binder / chelator to our food to PREVENT anaphylactic
shock.

All of the above can be verified with a simple search in the
newsgroups.

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> In alt.support.diabetes on Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:28:17 -0700 (PDT) in Msg.#
> <11e53726-32b0-4461-b1b9-026dcd23c...@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Michael
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> "There is hopeful symbolism in the fact that flags do not wave in a vacuum."
> - Arthur C. Clarke (12/17/1917 - 03/18/2008)
René - 20 Mar 2008 05:20 GMT
Dar,

Why can't you take iron when you take Synthroid?  What am I not seeing?

René
Julie Bove - 20 Mar 2008 05:23 GMT
> Dar,
>
> Why can't you take iron when you take Synthroid?  What am I not seeing?

You're not supposed to take it at the same time because you won't get the
full dose if you do.  When I took it, I took my  vitamins at night and the
Synthroid in the morning.
René - 20 Mar 2008 05:28 GMT
Julie, thanks for the quick reply!

René

>> Dar,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> full dose if you do.  When I took it, I took my  vitamins at night and the
> Synthroid in the morning.
Cheeky Bastard - 20 Mar 2008 10:01 GMT
I keep the bottle in the bed and take my thyroid med as soon as I wake and
then the rest later.

CB

>> Dar,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> full dose if you do.  When I took it, I took my  vitamins at night and the
> Synthroid in the morning.
Tiger_Lily - 20 Mar 2008 17:22 GMT
i do the same, my thyroid meds are right beside my bed, and when i wake
up at 4am, i take my synthroid and go back to sleep.......... no
problem, food will be well over an hour away :)
k

> I keep the bottle in the bed and take my thyroid med as soon as I wake
> and then the rest later.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>> the full dose if you do.  When I took it, I took my  vitamins at night
>> and the Synthroid in the morning.
dar - 20 Mar 2008 21:01 GMT
> > Dar,
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> full dose if you do.  When I took it, I took my  vitamins at night and the
> Synthroid in the morning.

Julie,

Thanks for replying to Rene.....

Take care and be well out there!  Debra
ironjustice - 20 Mar 2008 15:43 GMT
Why can't you take iron when you take Synthroid?  What am I not
seeing?
<<

The iron renders your hormone replacement therapy ineffective the same
as your antibiotics.
Below is a snip or cut and paste like some like to call it ..

http://www.gicare.com/pated/doxycycline.htm

"Are there interactions with food or beverages?

Avoid meats, iron-fortified cereals and iron supplements for 2 hours
before and after taking this drug."

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
René - 21 Mar 2008 03:33 GMT
Thanks for the reply, Tom.  It appears that it is an individual thing, as so
many things are.  I've been taking Synthroid for 23 years, and have never
been cautioned about taking Iron supplements with it.

René

On Mar 19, 9:20 pm, René <My.Penc...@gmail.com> wrote:
Why can't you take iron when you take Synthroid? What am I not
seeing?
<<

The iron renders your hormone replacement therapy ineffective the same
as your antibiotics.
Below is a snip or cut and paste like some like to call it ..

http://www.gicare.com/pated/doxycycline.htm

"Are there interactions with food or beverages?

Avoid meats, iron-fortified cereals and iron supplements for 2 hours
before and after taking this drug."

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
ironjustice@aol.com - 24 Mar 2008 11:56 GMT
On Mar 20, 7:43 am, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote:The
iron renders your hormone replacement therapy ineffective <<

Sooo .. with 92% of long term diabetics with free floating iron in the
bodies .. will this iron destroy their free floating thyroxine .. ?
Or yours .. ?

"The major form of thyroid hormone in the blood is thyroxine (T4)."

Research Article
Determination of thyroxine in pharmaceuticals using flow injection
with luminol chemiluminescence inhibition detection
Amir Waseem *, Mohammad Yaqoob, Abdul Nabi
Department of Chemistry, University of Balochistan, Quetta, Pakistan

email: Amir Waseem (waseemq2000@yahoo.com)

*Correspondence to Amir Waseem, Department of Chemistry, University of
Balochistan, Quetta, Pakistan.

Funded by:
Higher Education Commission, Pakistan; Grant Number: IQC-03600101

Keywords
flow injection analysis * chemiluminescence * inhibition * thyroxine *
pharmaceuticals

Abstract
A simple flow injection method is reported for the determination of
thyroxine, based on its inhibition effect on luminol-iron(II)
chemiluminescence in alkaline medium in the presence of molecular
oxygen.
The detection limits (2s) for d- and l-thyroxine are 0.08 and 0.1 mg/
L, respectively, with a sample throughput of 100/h.
The calibration data for d- and l-thyroxine over the range 0.2-1.0 mg/
L gives correlation coefficients (r2) of 0.9915 and 0.984 with
relative standard deviations (RSD; n = 4) in the range 1.2-2.8%.
The effects of some organic compounds was studied on luminol-iron(II)
CL system for thyroxine determination.
The method was applied to pharmaceutical thyroxine tablets and the
results obtained (in the range 50.5 ± 2.0-51.6 ± 1.2 µg l-thyroxine/
tablet) were in reasonable agreement with the value quoted.
Copyright (c) 2006 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Received: 30 September 2005; Accepted: 20 December 2005
Digital Object Identifier (DOI)

10.1002/bio.902  About DOI

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

>  Why can't you take iron when you take Synthroid?  What am I not
> seeing?
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
dar - 20 Mar 2008 21:00 GMT
> Dar,
>
> Why can't you take iron when you take Synthroid?  What am I not seeing?
>
> René

Rene....

Please see my recent posting.  You're seeing just fine......

Take care and be well out there!  Debra
René - 21 Mar 2008 03:36 GMT
Hi Dar!  I'm seeing my doctor tomorrow and am going to ask about it, because
I've taken Synthroid for 23 years, and have recently been prescribed an iron
supplement for anemia.  Nobody said anything about the combination, or
interactions.  But that's not surprising.  I'm gonna have to find out for
myself, I can see.  The old, "YMMV" is right on here!

Thanks!

René

On Mar 19, 11:20 pm, René <My.Penc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dar,
>
> Why can't you take iron when you take Synthroid? What am I not seeing?
>
> René

Rene....

Please see my recent posting.  You're seeing just fine......

Take care and be well out there!  Debra
dar - 21 Mar 2008 14:18 GMT
> Hi Dar!  I'm seeing my doctor tomorrow and am going to ask about it, because
> I've taken Synthroid for 23 years, and have recently been prescribed an iron
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Take care and be well out there!  Debra

Rene,

This might be too late, depending on your doctors appointment.  I've
always known about antacids and calcium as well.  You're suppose to
take them hours after you've taken your Synthroid.  Like you would
with your Iron.  It has to do with the same absorption situation.  I
know of this, due to me taking the calcium and antacids.

Gosh, this thread should turn into a Synthroid thread.  That way we
could leave Tom alone with his posting.

I've learned my lesson.....Tom!

Take care and be well out there!  Debra
ironjustice - 21 Mar 2008 15:56 GMT
On Mar 21, 6:18 am, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:Gosh, this thread
should turn into a Synthroid thread.  That way we
could leave Tom alone with his posting. <<

You should actually start your own thread ..
This thread is .. Bread and Plants ..

You know there seems to be something about the way you are acting ..

FIRST .. you say something about iron .. then you say you SAID
something about iron because of a nonexistent mentioning of iron in my
sig .. and NOW you speak about the lowest of the low .. changing the
thread .. **title** ..

Now if I didn't know better .. and since you SPECIFICALLY mentioned
that you are .. a newbie .. and any untoward remarks or actions MUST
be filed UNDER .. "not knowing no better" .. according to you .. makes
me kinda think you know EXACTLY what you are doing ..

So again ..

Start another thread .. your OWN .. thread and maybe I should suggest
a title FOR .. your .. thread / post.

Hypothyroid Iron Supplementation

Here's something to start .. with.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/patient-iron.html

Interactions with Drugs
Acetohydroxamic acid (AHA, Lithostat®) is prescribed to decrease
urinary ammonia, and may help with antibiotics to work or help with
other kidney stone treatment. Use with iron supplements may cause
either medicine to be less effective.

Allopurinol (Zyloprim®), a medication used to treat gout, may
increase
iron storage in the liver and should not be used in combination with
iron supplements.

Aminosalicylic acid (para-aminosalicylic acid, PAS, Paser) may cause
a
malabsorption syndrome (weight loss, iron and vitamin depletion,
excessive fat in the stools (steatorrhea). A qualified healthcare
provider should be contacted immediately if any of these symptoms are
experienced.

Antacids may reduce iron absorption, and reduced efficacy has
occurred
occasionally. Clinically significant effects are unlikely with
adequate dietary iron intake. However, it is recommended to avoid
antacids or separate the doses of antacids and iron.

Aspirin and nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) can cause
mucosal damage and bleeding throughout the gastrointestinal tract.
Chronic blood loss associated with long-term use of these agents may
contribute to iron deficiency anemia. Since iron supplements may also
irritate the gastrointestinal tract, patients should not use them
concurrently with NSAIDs unless recommended by a physician. Iron rich
food intake may be advised as an alternative.

Iron can decrease absorption of prescription drug bisphosphonates by
forming insoluble complexes. Bisphosphonates include alendronate
(Fosamax®), etidronate (Didronel®), risedronate (Actonel®), and
tiludronate (Skelid®). Doses of bisphosphonates should be separated
by
at least two hours from doses of all other medications, including
supplements such as iron.

Chloramphenicol (Chloromycetin®) can reduce the response to iron
therapy in iron deficiency anemia.

Cholestyramine (Questran®) and colestipol (Colestid®) may bind iron
in
the gut, reducing its absorption. Clinically significant iron
deficiency induced by these drugs has not been reported, and
supplements are not likely to be needed. If taking iron supplements
for other causes of deficiency, it is recommended that the iron and
cholestyramine or colestipol doses be separated by at least four
hours.

Desferrioxamine (DFO) is an iron-chelating drug that lowers iron
levels.

Iron supplements and dimercaprol may combine in the body to form a
harmful chemical.

Bone marrow iron deposits have been shown to decrease significantly
in
patients on EPO-R.

Iron decreases the absorption of fluoroquinolone antibiotics.
Fluoroquinolones include ciprofloxacin (Cipro®), levofloxacin
(Levaquin®), ofloxacin (Floxin®), and others. It is recommended to
take these antibiotics at least two hours before or two hours after
iron-containing supplements.

Gastric acid is important for the absorption of iron, particularly
dietary non-heme (plant-derived) iron. Adequate dietary iron intake
is
recommended when taking H2 blockers like cimetidine (Tagamet®),
ranitidine (Zantac®), famotidine (Pepcid®), or nizatidine (Axid®).
Iron supplements are not usually required unless they are being used
for another indication.

There is some evidence in healthy people that iron forms chelates
with
levodopa (Sinemet®), reducing the amount of levodopa absorbed by
around 50%. Until further research is available, separate doses of
levodopa and iron as much as possible.

Iron can decrease the absorption and efficacy of levothyroxine
(Levoxyl®, Synthroid®) by forming insoluble complexes in the
gastrointestinal tract. It is recommended that levothyroxine and iron
doses be separated by at least two hours.

Iron can decrease absorption of methyldopa (Aldomet®), resulting in
increases in blood pressure. It is recommended that methyldopa and
iron doses be separated by at least two hours.

Oral iron supplements markedly reduce absorption of mycophenolate
mofetil (CellCept®). It is recommended that iron be taken four to six
hours before, or two hours after mycophenolate mofetil.

There is some evidence that pancreatic enzyme supplements (such as
Cotazym®, Creon®, Pancrease®, Ultrase®, Viokase®), can reduce iron
absorption, possibly by binding iron or altering pH. Clinical
significance is unlikely, except in people with cystic fibrosis who
need pancreatic enzyme supplements for prolonged periods, and have
other factors contributing to iron deficiency. Iron status should be
monitored by a qualified healthcare provider.

Oral iron supplements can reduce absorption of penicillamine
(Cuprimine®, Depen®) by 30% to 70%, probably due to chelate
formation.
Efficacy of penicillamine is reduced in Wilson's disease; the
clinical
significance in people with rheumatoid arthritis (RA) has not been
determined. Patients should be advised to take penicillamine at least
two hours before or after iron-containing supplements.

Gastric acid is important for the absorption of iron. However, long-
term treatment, up to 12.5 years, with proton pump inhibitors (such
as
esomeprazole (Nexium®), lansoprazole (Prevacid®), omeprazole
(Prilosec®), rabeprazole (Aciphex®), pantoprazole (Protonix®,
Pantoloc®) has not been associated with iron depletion or anemia in
people with normal iron stores. Maintaining adequate dietary iron
intake is recommended.

Concomitant use can decrease absorption of tetracycline antibiotics
by
50% to 90%. Patients should be advised to take tetracyclines at least
two hours before or after iron-containing supplements. Some of these
drugs include doxycycline (Vibramycin®), minocycline (Minocin®),
tetracycline (Achromycin®), and others.

Interactions with Herbs and Dietary Supplements
Acacia forms an insoluble gel with ferric iron. Clinical significance
is unknown.

Calcium supplements have been shown to inhibit absorption of iron
supplements when taken with food. However, in people with adequate
iron stores, this does not appear to be clinically significant. If at
risk for iron deficiency, it is recommended to take calcium
supplements at bedtime, instead of with meals, to avoid inhibiting
dietary iron absorption.

Copper metabolism may be altered by iron supplements, but the
clinical
importance of this observation is unknown.

Citric, malic, tartaric, and lactic acids have some enhancing effects
on nonheme iron absorption.

Phytic acid is present in legumes, grains, and rice and is an
inhibitor of nonheme iron absorption. Small amounts of phytic acid
can
reduce nonheme iron absorption by 50%. The absorption of iron from
legumes, such as soybeans, black beans, lentils, mung beans, and
split
peas, has been shown to be as low as 2%.

Polyphenols, found in some fruits, vegetables, coffee, tea, wines,
and
spices, can markedly inhibit the absorption of nonheme iron. This
effect is reduced by the presence of vitamin C.

Riboflavin (vitamin B2) supplements may improve the hematological
response to iron supplements in some people with anemia.

Based on preliminary data, iron may decrease selenium levels. Further
research is needed to confirm these results.

Soy protein reduces absorption of dietary non-heme (plant-derived)
iron, probably due to binding of iron by phytate and calcium present
in soy. Fermented soy products seem to inhibit of iron absorption
less.

Vitamin A appears to be involved in mobilizing iron from tissue
stores
for delivery to developing red blood cells in the bone marrow.
Vitamin
A may also be involved in the differentiation and proliferation of
blood stem cells in the bone marrow, and in the synthesis of
erythropoietin. Preliminary evidence also suggests that vitamin A and
beta-carotene may enhance non-heme iron absorption from iron-
fortified
wheat and corn flour, and rice. It is unlikely that vitamin A
supplements would have significant effects on iron status in people
without vitamin A deficiency.

The amount of vitamin C in the diet is a factor in dietary iron
absorption and iron status. Vitamin C can counteract the effects of
substances, which inhibit iron absorption. Supplemental or dietary
vitamin C improves absorption of supplemental or dietary non-heme
(plant-derived) iron ingested at the same time. Taking a vitamin C
supplement to improve absorption of dietary or supplemental iron
probably is not necessary for most people, especially if their diet
contains adequate amounts of vitamin C.

Use of oral iron preparations in premature infants with low serum
vitamin E levels may cause hemolysis and hemolytic anemia. Vitamin E
deficiency should be corrected before administering supplemental
iron.

Iron may decrease zinc absorption but there does not seem to be a
clinically significant interaction between dietary iron and zinc, or
between supplemental iron and zinc dietary sources.

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> > Hi Dar!  I'm seeing my doctor tomorrow and am going to ask about it, because
> > I've taken Synthroid for 23 years, and have recently been prescribed an iron
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
dar - 21 Mar 2008 23:53 GMT
> On Mar 21, 6:18 am, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:Gosh, this thread
> should turn into a Synthroid thread.  That way we
[quoted text clipped - 235 lines]
>
> read more »...

Ummm Tom,

Because I don't know you and you don't know me (unless you've posted
under a different addy many years ago)....I'm extending my hand out to
ya in the form of cyber-friendship.  I'm gonna bake you two apple
pies!

I haven't stated that I'm a newbie. I am new to the GMAIL and the new
TN Group. I'm new to learning how to do things with posting etc.  I
haven't mastered the cut/paste or snip yet.  That's all I've stated
regarding being new at anything.

Please check out my original posting of:  I've Just Arrived and I
Don't Know Where I've Landed

I've not posted to the newsgroups for many years.  At least three.
Ok, maybe 2 1/2.

My former addy was:  Alrhody       Please check out my postings under
this.

Please go and check it out.  I checked it out a few days ago, and to
tell you the truth...I did cry.  They were not happy tears either.

I cried because of the fun being taken out of here.  I cried because I
miss my buddy Moe.  Whom, along with my husband, attended her
funeral.  You might even go far back enough to read about the death of
my brother....I didn't want to bring this up.  It's just documentation
for you to read, due to your suspicions.

As far as me asking to have this thread moved, regarding Synthroid.
The subject has taken up your thread.  I caused this to happen and I'm
very...very sorry that I have.

There is really nothing more that I can say or do......so;

Gonna go and start the apple pie baking.....

Take care and be well out there!  Debra
ironjustice - 22 Mar 2008 00:45 GMT
On Mar 21, 3:53 pm, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:I've Just Arrived
and I
Don't Know Where I've Landed <<

You've landed in one of the more vicious of the newsgroups.

They work as a group.

Criminal acts have emanated  alt.med.fibromyalgia  .

You say you have only really been gone for two to three years which
means .. ? .. again .. suspician has been raised because .. ? .. this
group has displayed that viciousness for much longer than three
years .. meaning again .. WHY are you .. blissfully unaware OF
these .. displays .. ?

Do you know .. diana .. ?

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> > On Mar 21, 6:18 am, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:Gosh, this thread
> > should turn into a Synthroid thread.  That way we
[quoted text clipped - 277 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
nanny - 24 Mar 2008 16:42 GMT
Hey, this has gone far enough!  Debra is NOT a newbie, and I remember her
sweet self many years ago on AMF.  She encourages others, she's funny, and
she's great at "virtual" party times :-)  She has also known sorrow and pain
over the years.  She is my friend.  Nanny
On Mar 21, 3:53 pm, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:I've Just Arrived
and I
Don't Know Where I've Landed <<

You've landed in one of the more vicious of the newsgroups.

They work as a group.

Criminal acts have emanated  alt.med.fibromyalgia  .

You say you have only really been gone for two to three years which
means .. ? .. again .. suspician has been raised because .. ? .. this
group has displayed that viciousness for much longer than three
years .. meaning again .. WHY are you .. blissfully unaware OF
these .. displays .. ?

Do you know .. diana .. ?

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> On Mar 21, 9:56 am, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 279 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
ironjustice@aol.com - 24 Mar 2008 21:11 GMT
Hey, this has gone far enough!  Debra is NOT a newbie, and I remember
her
sweet self many years ago on AMF.  She encourages others, she's
funny, and
she's great at "virtual" party times :-)  She has also known sorrow
and pain
over the years.  She is my friend.  Nanny <<

She seems to have picked up on alot of the tricks perpetrated out of
this group .. haven't they ..

You must have taught her some of your screwball .. recipes ..
-----------------------------
These people have a .. strategy .. a plan they use ..

First they target specific people .. and firebomb them with emails ..
they conjure up new alias' and firebomb them some more .. then they
firebomb the servers of the people they dislike ..

Then if this doesn't work then they pull out the big guns .. they
change the title of the thread and begin to talk about .. recipes..

Now isn't it a coincidence 'Debra' cannot remember this group from
three years ago , how she mentioned changing the title .. and NOW ..
she changes the thread to .. apple pie .. ?

Remember I mentioned .. "which cow is next" .. ?

Ask her to moo for ya ..

She can .. moooo .. real good ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

They have even

"ironjustice" <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> news:d7de502c-88e0-481c-bddd-eb976317aeb7@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 21, 3:53 pm, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:I've Just Arrived
[quoted text clipped - 303 lines]
>
> > - Show quoted text -
J666 - 24 Mar 2008 21:47 GMT
On Mar 24, 3:11 pm, "ironinjust...

Chung has a 2 million dollar guaranteeing his 2Pounder, do you at
least have an iron-clad guarantee about what you say?
ironjustice@aol.com - 25 Mar 2008 03:24 GMT
On Mar 24, 1:47 pm, J666 <jeaa...@gmail.com> wrote: On Mar 24, 3:11
pm, "ironinjust...
Chung has a 2 million dollar guaranteeing his 2Pounder, do you at
least have an iron-clad guarantee about what you say? <<

http://tinyurl.com/2fuqy5

Compliments of KSama ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
J666 - 25 Mar 2008 03:40 GMT
I guess you do not have an iron-clad guarantee - well if Chung can
offer 2 million dollars and you cannot even offer an iron-clad
guarantee, then you obviously do not full believe in the truth of what
you say, so neither should anyone else.

It does seem you have a multiple personality psychiatric problem - any
loony groups for you and Chung?

On Mar 24, 9:24 pm, "ironjust...@aol.com" <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Mar 24, 1:47 pm, J666 <jeaa...@gmail.com> wrote: On Mar 24, 3:11
> pm, "ironinjust...
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
ironjustice@aol.com - 25 Mar 2008 04:11 GMT
On Mar 24, 7:40 pm, J666 <jeaa...@gmail.com> wrote: guarantee <<

Has this got something to do with phytate or bread or plants or iron
binding substances or anything about this thread .. at .. all .. ?

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> I guess you do not have an iron-clad guarantee - well if Chung can
> offer 2 million dollars and you cannot even offer an iron-clad
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
J666 - 25 Mar 2008 04:17 GMT
On Mar 24, 10:11 pm, "ironjust...

> Has this got something to do with phytate or bread or plants or
iron
> binding substances or anything about this thread .. at .. all .. ?

No, just seems you have a "one track" mind and so was wondering how
sure you were of what you were saying.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 25 Mar 2008 07:17 GMT
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Squirmingsatan
Paul T. Holland - 24 Mar 2008 20:24 GMT
> Do you know .. diana .. ?

i doubt it, but i bet she knows the pieman!

> Tom
>
[quoted text clipped - 288 lines]
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
Tiger_Lily - 22 Mar 2008 01:38 GMT
> Ummm Tom,
>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> Take care and be well out there!  Debra

Debra......... ironjustice aka Tom is a troll

most of us have put him in our killfile

kate
ironjustice - 22 Mar 2008 02:39 GMT
On Mar 21, 5:38 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:Debra.........
ironjustice aka Tom is a troll <<

How long you been here .. ?

If you can call ME .. a .. troll .. so what do I get to call ..
you .. ?

Should I think of something .. ?

How about ..

Eat .. me ..

My thread .. stay the fk off it ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> > Ummm Tom,
>
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Tiger_Lily - 22 Mar 2008 02:43 GMT
> On Mar 21, 5:38 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:Debra.........
> ironjustice aka Tom is a troll <<
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

awwwwwwwwww Tommy has a hissy fit, it's now "HIS" thread and he's giving
orders as to who can post to it

YOU are a TROLL Tom....... have been for years....... it's amazing they
haven't locked you up yet............ or have they?
ironjustice - 22 Mar 2008 03:15 GMT
On Mar 21, 6:43 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:"HIS" thread
and he's giving
orders as to who can post to it ><<

Eat .. me ... My thread .. stay the fk off it

You seem to have a problem with .. me .. specifically .. do ya .. ?

And why is that .. ?

Pray .. tell ..

YOU came onto MY thread and call me a fkg ahole and I'm supposed to
take that from the likes of .. you .. ?

YOU .. ?

Cold day there .. baby ..

EAT me .. understand .. you .. cow .. ?

Eh .. do ya .. ?

On Mar 21, 6:43 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:"it's amazing
they
haven't locked you up yet <<

You've been an abuser for alot of years .. haven't ya ..

Funny nobody has .. KILLED .. you .. yet ..

Being most of us live in the .. real world .. eh ..

Heh .. heh ..

You nutbar ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> > On Mar 21, 5:38 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:Debra.........
> > ironjustice aka Tom is a troll <<
[quoted text clipped - 67 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Michael B - 22 Mar 2008 03:22 GMT
Ironjustice is an individual with an excessive number of periods.

> On Mar 21, 6:43 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:"HIS" thread
> and he's giving
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Eh .. do ya .. ?
nanny - 24 Mar 2008 16:44 GMT
big grin!  Nanny
> Ironjustice is an individual with an excessive number of periods.
>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>>
>> Eh .. do ya .. ?
Paul T. Holland - 24 Mar 2008 20:29 GMT
> On Mar 21, 6:43 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:"HIS" thread
> and he's giving
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> YOU came onto MY thread and call me a fkg ahole and I'm supposed to
> take that from the likes of .. you .. ?

ah...except
tl didn't call you a >fkg ahole
tl called you a >TROLL

you are the one using scatological obscenities

> YOU .. ?
>
[quoted text clipped - 101 lines]
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
DonnaB shallotpeel - 24 Mar 2008 20:40 GMT
Please consider removing alt.support.diabetes from these cross-posts that
have nothing to do with us. Thank you. DonnaB

Followup Reset.

In alt.support.diabetes on Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:29:45 GMT in Msg.#
<47E801D4.2EED2492@bellatlantic.net>, "Paul T. Holland"
<pholland@bellatlantic.net>  wrote:

> > On Mar 21, 6:43 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:"HIS" thread
> > and he's giving
[quoted text clipped - 122 lines]
> > >
> > > - Show quoted text -
Paul T. Holland - 24 Mar 2008 20:26 GMT
nope tom

it's not 'your' thread -

it a post in usenet on an unmoderated group

that means folk can reply to any part, or add to it as they see it.

you don't own a thread and being hostile won't get you what you want.

> On Mar 21, 5:38 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:Debra.........
> ironjustice aka Tom is a troll <<
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
ironjustice@aol.com - 24 Mar 2008 20:56 GMT
On Mar 24, 12:26 pm, "Paul T. Holland" <pholl...@bellatlantic.net>
wrote:
nope tom it's not 'your' thread - <<

Who's it it .. yours .. ?

Two-bit .. cows .. ?

YOU fit right in there .. don't ya .. Holland ..

Must make it real easy with your lack of testosterone to .. moooo ..
just right .. eh ..

Heh .. heh ..

Hypothyroid .. Holland ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
Evelyn Ruut - 22 Mar 2008 11:51 GMT
Deb,

Tom is a well known troll.   He frequents all the support newsgroup and
annoys people.   Almost everyone has him in their killfile.   Don't rely on
him as a source of reliable information.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

On Mar 21, 9:56 am, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 21, 6:18 am, dar <darh...@gmail.com> wrote:Gosh, this thread
> should turn into a Synthroid thread. That way we
[quoted text clipped - 235 lines]
>
> read more »...

Ummm Tom,

Because I don't know you and you don't know me (unless you've posted
under a different addy many years ago)....I'm extending my hand out to
ya in the form of cyber-friendship.  I'm gonna bake you two apple
pies!

I haven't stated that I'm a newbie. I am new to the GMAIL and the new
TN Group. I'm new to learning how to do things with posting etc.  I
haven't mastered the cut/paste or snip yet.  That's all I've stated
regarding being new at anything.

Please check out my original posting of:  I've Just Arrived and I
Don't Know Where I've Landed

I've not posted to the newsgroups for many years.  At least three.
Ok, maybe 2 1/2.

My former addy was:  Alrhody       Please check out my postings under
this.

Please go and check it out.  I checked it out a few days ago, and to
tell you the truth...I did cry.  They were not happy tears either.

I cried because of the fun being taken out of here.  I cried because I
miss my buddy Moe.  Whom, along with my husband, attended her
funeral.  You might even go far back enough to read about the death of
my brother....I didn't want to bring this up.  It's just documentation
for you to read, due to your suspicions.

As far as me asking to have this thread moved, regarding Synthroid.
The subject has taken up your thread.  I caused this to happen and I'm
very...very sorry that I have.

There is really nothing more that I can say or do......so;

Gonna go and start the apple pie baking.....

Take care and be well out there!  Debra
ironjustice - 22 Mar 2008 14:59 GMT
On Mar 22, 3:51 am, "Evelyn Ruut" <evelyn.r...@gmail.com> wrote:On Mar
21, 6:43 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net>  Tom is a well known troll.
<<

Eat .. me ... My thread .. stay the fk off it

YOU are a well known .. cow .. and have been a cow for most likely all
of your life ..

The ONLY contribution I have seen you EVER .. attempt .. is .. ?

Jeez .. you know I can't remember you EVER contributing a .. thing ..

Not a single thing .. in ALL the years I've been here ..

You know in a few years you think even a useless shtbg like.. you ..
would have at least contributed .. once ..

But nooooo .. same sht .. different day .. eh .. cow ..

I guess I can expect another well known cow to come along ..

Eh ..

Which cow is .. next ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

wrote:"HIS" thread
and he's giving
orders as to who can post to it ><<

Eat .. me ... My thread .. stay the fk off it

You seem to have a problem with .. me .. specifically .. do ya .. ?

And why is that .. ?

Pray .. tell ..

YOU came onto MY thread and call me a fkg ahole and I'm supposed to
take that from the likes of .. you .. ?

YOU .. ?

Cold day there .. baby ..

EAT me .. understand .. you .. cow .. ?

Eh .. do ya .. ?

On Mar 21, 6:43 pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:"it's amazing
they
haven't locked you up yet <<

You've been an abuser for alot of years .. haven't ya ..

Funny nobody has .. KILLED .. you .. yet ..

Being most of us live in the .. real world .. eh ..

Heh .. heh ..

You nutbar ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> Deb,
>
[quoted text clipped - 232 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
00doc - 22 Mar 2008 14:01 GMT
Ummm Tom,

Because I don't know you and you don't know me (unless you've posted
under a different addy many years ago)....I'm extending my hand out to
ya in the form of cyber-friendship.  I'm gonna bake you two apple
pies!

I haven't stated that I'm a newbie. I am new to the GMAIL and the new
TN Group. I'm new to learning how to do things with posting etc.  I
haven't mastered the cut/paste or snip yet.  That's all I've stated
regarding being new at anything.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tom is a well known Internet loon/troll. The first thing you need to learn
is to not feed the trolls. Please stop replying to him. He has no interest
in any rational discussion.

Signature

00doc

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 22 Mar 2008 14:12 GMT
> Ummm Tom,
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> is to not feed the trolls. Please stop replying to him. He has no interest
> in any rational discussion.

As if you, by engaging in name-calling, were showing an interest in
rational discussion.

Matthew 7 comes to mind here.

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic:

http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow
ironjustice - 22 Mar 2008 15:07 GMT
On Mar 22, 6:01 am, "00doc" <00...@comcast.net> wrote:Tom is a well
known Internet loon/troll.  <<

Aren't you a long time member of the asthma group .. ?

He likes to make like he is something other than .. a .. poser .. a
two-bit little .. poser ..

You didn't say much about my last asthma post did ya .. poser ..

Heh .. heh ..

Now .. fkff .. you are too much of a .. **pussy** ..

And we both KNOW how much I like people like yourself ..

I ain't alone there .. buddy ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> Ummm Tom,
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> --
> 00doc
J666 - 22 Mar 2008 16:05 GMT
On Mar 22, 8:59 am, ironjustice

 "YOU are a well known .. cow .. and have been a cow for most likely
all of your life .."

On Mar 22, 9:07 am, ironjustice
 "Now .. fkff .. you are too much of a .. **pussy** .."

The intellect and wisdom and the adult maturity of ironjustice as
work.  At like Chung, you are consistent in your way of responding -
you give personal insults and Chung/Holy Spirit  convicts.
ironjustice - 22 Mar 2008 18:02 GMT
On Mar 22, 8:05 am, J666 <jeaa...@gmail.com> wrote:The intellect and
wisdom and the adult maturity of ironjustice as
work. <<

I'll teach you a word .. a .. extensively used .. term ..

Extrapolation ..

Let me give you an analogy ..

Extrapolate THIS .. from the cows .. to YOU ..

"Now .. fkff .. you are too much of a .. **pussy** .."

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> On Mar 22, 8:59 am, ironjustice
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> work.  At like Chung, you are consistent in your way of responding -
> you give personal insults and Chung/Holy Spirit  convicts.
J666 - 22 Mar 2008 18:23 GMT
On Mar 22, 12:02 pm, ironjustice

> I'll teach you a word .. a .. extensively used .. term ..
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>  "Now .. fkff .. you are too much of a .. **pussy** .."

LOL when people try to be insulting as a substitute for intelligent
discourse  - of you view yourself as sophisticated and witty, but are
really an immature fool.

I'll leave the last, no doubt some other childish insult, response to
you.  Looking forward to another chuckle with your response. At least
your responses can be viewed with humor, compared to your compatriot
Chung.
ironjustice - 22 Mar 2008 18:53 GMT
On Mar 22, 10:23 am, J666 <jeaa...@gmail.com> wrote:At least
your responses can be viewed with humor, compared to your compatriot
Chung. <<

I'll have to look up .. compatriot .. but .. chung is deluded ..

He doesn't believe man is a herbivore and that iron reduction is the
ONLY way to restore health ..

He KNOWS and has shown his method .. works .. in reduction of disease.

You don't seem to like the fact he is kinda preachy about it ..

Sooo .. he thinks diet restriction works .. and it **does** ..

Me .. you can eat plants till the cows .. come .. home.

Sooo .. chung says .. "no .. stop eating that carrot" .. and I say ..
eat the carrot ..

You see how that works ..

He and I are not much alike at'all ..

Diet restriction is shown to reduce body fat and healthy up the
heart ..

It works in animals ..

Man is an animal ..

Write that down ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> On Mar 22, 12:02 pm, ironjustice
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> your responses can be viewed with humor, compared to your compatriot
> Chung.
mortonmullens@hotmail.com - 22 Mar 2008 19:18 GMT
On Mar 22, 12:53 pm, ironjustice

 > He and I are not much alike at'all ..

You and Chung basically say different things but you both are blind-
sided to anything else.  Everything, and I mean everything, is about
iron with you just as everything is about the  2PD stuff with Chung.
So the words may be different, but the mental process is the same
between you and Chung.  I am sure neither of you will recognize that.
Most people who are so one-sided, who wear blinders that only allow a
narrow point of view, are incapable of recognizing that.  If they
could recognize that, then they would not be so one-sided.
ironjustice - 22 Mar 2008 19:28 GMT
On Mar 22, 11:18 am, mortonmull...@hotmail.com wrote:If they
could recognize that, then they would not be so one-sided. <<

Yeah .. like people who got something against .. religion ..

Is that about .. right .. ?

Keep it in alt.religion ..

If chungs sig says something about religion .. big .. deal ..

His constant .. rebukes .. seem to emanate only when .. provoked ..

Sorta .. like a .. puffball ..

Sooo .. his method .. works ..

Simple ..

As far as I can see ..

He may not have as many studies as one might like .. but his IS a
doctor .. and he should be .. with that alone .. be allowed his
opinion .. in medical groups .. ?

Should we ask the .. nurses .. ? .. how about MOST of the ..
patients .. ?

Did you take seven years of your life and pass the .. bar .. ?

Did you even .. contemplate ON that .. bar .. ?

Walk up to that .. bar.

Now could you jump that .. bar.. ?

Chung .. **did** ..

It's called .. **deserving** OF .. **respect** .. sorta .. like ..
merit ..

Not quite as .. good ..

But .. almost ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> On Mar 22, 12:53 pm, ironjustice
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> narrow point of view, are incapable of recognizing that.  If they
> could recognize that, then they would not be so one-sided.
J666 - 22 Mar 2008 19:37 GMT
On Mar 22, 1:18 pm, mortonmull...

> You and Chung basically say different things but you both are blind-
> sided to anything else.  Everything, and I mean everything, is about
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> narrow point of view, are incapable of recognizing that.  If they
> could recognize that, then they would not be so one-sided.

You have defined an important characteristic of fanatics.  You are
correct in that fanatics can never comprehend their own fanaticism but
can with other fanatics who do not agree 100%.

As long as they do no harm, they can be quite amusing as they try to
answer or ignore questions or justify their views.

Fortunately few here follow their advice, or even read their posts,
and at least Chung, with his MD degree, does not seem to be taking
care of patients.
ironjustice - 23 Mar 2008 05:03 GMT
On Mar 22, 11:37 am, J666 <jeaa...@gmail.com> wrote:You have defined
an important characteristic of fanatics.  You are
correct in that fanatics can never comprehend their own fanaticism
but
can with other fanatics who do not agree 100%.<<

I think YOU probably understand whatyou  just said but .. I ..
don't ..

On Mar 22, 11:37 am, J666 <jeaa...@gmail.com> wrote: As long as they
do no harm,
they can be quite amusing as they try to answer or ignore questions or
justify their views. <<

YOU decide who is causing harm .. ?

A two-bit bich on the internet .. ?

On Mar 22, 11:37 am, J666 <jeaa...@gmail.com> wrote: Fortunately few
here follow their advice, or even read their posts,
and at least Chung, with his MD degree, does not seem to be taking
care of patients. <<

Well in their field .. doctors .. it seems their success is based on
time .. off ..

Sooo .. chung is doing pretty good ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> On Mar 22, 1:18 pm, mortonmull...
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> and at least Chung, with his MD degree, does not seem to be taking
> care of patients.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 22 Mar 2008 20:34 GMT
> satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) hissed:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> I'll have to look up .. compatriot .. but .. chung is deluded ..

The latter would require believing something to be true that is not.

> He doesn't believe man is a herbivore

Correct.  Physiologically, humans are omnivores.

> and that iron reduction is the ONLY way to restore health ..

Not for those with normal to low iron stores.

> He KNOWS and has shown his method .. works .. in reduction of disease.

The 2PD-OMER Approach is not my method but rather by GOD's design
(Exodus 16:16).

Laus Deo ! ! !

http://HeartMDPhD.com/LausDeo

Moreover, those who eat less, down to the optimal amount will
automatically reduce their iron intake.

> You don't seem to like the fact he is kinda preachy about it ..

Though irresistibly drawn to the light of the truth, Who is LORD Jesus
Christ...

... the creatures of darkness are also bothered by the same light.

> Sooo .. he thinks diet restriction works .. and it **does** ..

Eating the optimal amount of food per day is not a diet restriction
but rather guidance toward doing what is right.

> Me .. you can eat plants till the cows .. come .. home.

Perhaps if you are a cow slated for slaughter:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Parable

> Sooo .. chung says .. "no .. stop eating that carrot" .. and I say ..
> eat the carrot ..

Actually, you may eat the carrot as long as you weigh it with the rest
of your meals to make sure you intake is the optimal 32 ounces per
day:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeSmart

> You see how that works ..

It is simple but will not be easy until GOD heals your heart of the
world's lie that "hunger is bad."

Moreover, the world will try to undermine what GOD has done for you:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/StrongMan

> He and I are not much alike at'all ..

Except for possibly our faith in LORD Jesus Christ:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/JesusChrist

> Diet restriction is shown to reduce body fat and healthy up the
> heart ..
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Write that down ..

There is a 2 million dollar guarantee for the skeptics and scoffers:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Guarantee

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Guarantee/Criteria

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic:

http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow
J666 - 22 Mar 2008 21:06 GMT
On Mar 22, 2:34 pm, "Andrew Liar

> The 2PD-OMER Approach is not my method but rather by GOD's design
> (Exodus 16:16).

God instructed Moses about an Omer, a volume not a weight, of manna,
not any food.

Since you wrongly keep asserting the 2 pounds, then at least please
answer how the 2 pounds is determine when weight varies with altitude
and what is the calibration of scales based on.  If you have no
answer, then your Approach is flawed.

From another post:

Since the gravitational constant (g) depends on the square of the
distance from the center of the earth, the weight of an object
decreases with altitude.

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/wteq.html

So it is legitimate to ask just what is 2 pounds where it can vary by
altitude.

What is the standard - at what altitude is the 2 pounds set - the
level of the desert where Moses et al wandered and got the manna from
God?

What is the level of accuracy of the scale that is needed - scales
have variation and where is the scale against which all others are
compared

How is the weight adjusted taking into account the variation of
altitude.

What is the variation, either more or less, than what ever is the
standard for 2 pounds at the correct altitude weighed on the correct
scale, is allowable and be in conformity with the 2PD Omer Approach.
yamantaka@aol.com - 22 Mar 2008 22:45 GMT
On Mar 22, 12:34 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:

> >IronJusticequipped, " I'll have to look up .. compatriot .. but .. chung is deluded .."
>
> Chung spewed," The latter would require believing something to be true that is not.

Incorrect. Delusional means that you have a chronic, rigid belief in
an idea that is not held to be true by the rest of the general
population. You, Chung have proven yourself to be delusional.
Therefore, you are deluded.

> The 2PD-OMER Approach is not my method but rather by GOD's design
> (Exodus 16:16).

Incorrect. The 2PD-OMER Approach is something that you have designed,
Chung. It is not what is mentioned in Exodus 16:16. You have the
delusional idea that an omer is 2 lbs, when all Biblical scholars
assert that it is a measure of volume, not weight.

Exodus 16:16 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

16:16 This is what the LORD has commanded: 'Each one is to gather as
much as he needs. Take an omer [a] for each person you have in your
tent.' "

Footnotes:

Exodus 16:16 That is, probably about 2 quarts (about 2 liters also in
verses 18, 32, 33 and 36

> Eating the optimal amount of food per day is not a diet restriction
> but rather guidance toward doing what is right.

Okay, we all agree that most people should eat less. But no one agrees
that 2 lbs a day of any food is optimal for everyone.

> There is a 2 million dollar guarantee for the skeptics and scoffers:

You lie about that Chung, just like you lie about having sold the
domain name emorycardiology.com for 1 million dollars last year. Plus,
if one reads the requirements to be eligeble for the reward, they are
such that no one could meet them. You require five years of records.

You have never given one shred of verifiable evidence to support any
of your bogus claims. This is dishonest and against the guidelines of
the Georgia Medical Board.
ironjustice - 23 Mar 2008 05:21 GMT
On Mar 22, 12:34 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:The latter would require
believing something to be true that is not. <<

You believe man is an omnivore ..

On Mar 22, 12:34 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: Not for those with normal to
low iron stores.<<

The evidence shows by lowering iron levels / blood donation in those
with what you / they consider to BE "normal to low iron stores"
results in better markers.
Whether it be the decreased viscosity or the lesser oxidation but the
markers say recovery.

On Mar 22, 12:34 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: Moreover, those who eat less,
down to the optimal amount will automatically reduce their iron
intake. <<

Ah .. if one goes on a Atkin's type two pound diet from a vegetable
based two and a half pound diet .. the dietary iron PRESENTED will
increase PLUS the absorbable iron will increase .. giving .. iron
increased twopounddiet.

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> > satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) hissed:
>
[quoted text clipped - 94 lines]
> Lawful steward ofhttp://EmoryCardiology.com
> A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords.http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 23 Mar 2008 08:28 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > The latter would require believing something to be true that is not.
>
> You believe man is an omnivore ..

Man is able to eat all variety of foods.

This would define him as an omnivore.

> > Not for those with normal to low iron stores.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Whether it be the decreased viscosity or the lesser oxidation but the
> markers say recovery.

The anemia with microcytosis especially in the setting of high output
cardiac failure would indicates decompensation rather than recovery.

> > Moreover, those who eat less,
> > down to the optimal amount will automatically reduce their iron
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> increase PLUS the absorbable iron will increase .. giving .. iron
> increased twopounddiet.

The 2PD-OMER Approach is not a diet nor does it involve a change in
diet.

Given no change in diet, a person eating less down the the right
amount per the 2PD-OMER Approach will automatically reduce their iron
intake.

Truth is simple.

May you and other dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a
blessedly wonderful 2008th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus
Christ as the Son of Man ...

... by being hungrier:

http://TruthRUS.org/KnowingGOD

Hunger is wonderful:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Hunger

It's how we know what GOD wants, which is what is good.

Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve
paid for with their and our immortal lives.

Those who suffer from the powerful delusion predicted by the prophecy
of 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11 would deny this and perish ( gone !!! )
forever ...

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyOne

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyTwo

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyThree

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyFour

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Bob

... gone:

http://YouTube.com/watch?v=Qb6d_z5C35E

Such will be the demise of all those who refuse to know **and** love
the truth, Who is LORD Jesus Christ:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love/TheTruth

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/BeBlessed

"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...

... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)

Amen.

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Luke6_21

A simple parable for the wise and discerning:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Parable

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic:

http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow
ironjustice - 23 Mar 2008 15:33 GMT
On Mar 23, 12:28 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:The anemia with microcytosis
especially in the setting of high output
cardiac failure would indicates decompensation rather than recovery.
<<

Which seems to be very similar to microcytosis of vitamin E
deficiency / hemolytic anemia .. BUT again .. we weren't talking about
anyone sick.
We are talking about everyday normal joes .. with no diseases other
than the increased sensitivity to insulin found in the meat eaters.
.
When their iron was lowered they had recovery.

"it seems that reduced insulin sensitivity in meat-eaters is amenable
to improvement by reducing body Fe"

Br J Nutr 2001 Oct;86(4):515-9

Low iron status and enhanced insulin sensitivity in lacto-ovo
vegetarians.

   Hua NW, Stoohs RA, Facchini FS

  Department of Medicine, Division of Nephrology, San Francisco
General
  Hospital, San Francisco, CA, USA.

  [Medline record in process]

  The efficacy of insulin in stimulating whole-body glucose disposal
  (insulin sensitivity) was quantified using direct methodology in
  thirty lacto-ovo vegetarians and in thirty meat-eaters. All
subjects
  were adult, lean (BMI <23 kg/m2), healthy and glucose tolerant.
  Lacto-ovo vegetarians were more insulin sensitive than meat-
eaters,
  with a steady-state plasma glucose (mmol/l) of 4.1 (95 % CI 3.5,
5.0)
  v. 6.9 (95 % CI 5.2, 7.5; respectively. In addition, lacto-ovo
  vegetarians had lower body Fe stores, as indicated by a serum
ferritin
  concentration (mg/l) of 35 (95 % CI 21, 49) compared with 72 (95 %
CI
  45, 100) for meat-eaters To test whether or not Fe status might
  modulate insulin sensitivity, body Fe was lowered by phlebotomy in
six
  male meat-eaters to levels similar to that seen in vegetarians,
with a
  resultant approximately 40 % enhancement of insulin-mediated
glucose
  disposal Our results demonstrate that lacto-ovo vegetarians are
more
  insulin sensitive and have lower Fe stores than meat-eaters. In
  addition, it seems that reduced insulin sensitivity in meat-eaters
is
  amenable to improvement by reducing body Fe. The latter finding is
in
  agreement with results from animal studies where, no matter how
  induced, Fe depletion consistently enhanced glucose disposal.

  PMID: 11591239, UI: 21475355

_________________________________________________________________

On Mar 23, 12:28 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:Given no change in diet, a
person eating less down the the right amount per the 2PD-OMER Approach
will automatically reduce their iron
intake. <<

In a perfect .. world ..

BUT .. this guy isn't perfect .. HE decided TO go atkins from his two
and a half pound intake TO .. your .. twopounddiet.

Sooo .. his previous diet of 2 and 1/2 pounds of vegetables have a
certain amount of absorbable .. iron.
WHEN he switched to this less weight diet of 2 pounds of meat the
absorbable iron goes WAY up because he is no longer eating foods which
have iron inhibitors in it ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 103 lines]
> Lawful steward ofhttp://EmoryCardiology.com
> A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords.http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 23 Mar 2008 23:15 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]