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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / October 2003

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Black Eye for Socialized Medicine

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jackmallory@webtv.net - 24 Oct 2003 14:55 GMT
Was re-reading Saffy's post about waitig months to be referred to a lung
specialist and then wating months n' months for the actual appointment.

From what I gather over the years I assume the system in the UK is for
____.

What about socialized medicine in other countries? Canada. Denmark,
Holland, Australia?  Hungary, Slovakia, Poland?  China?

(I did read that in China, when the SARS epidemic was ripe, their
government had to   e s t a b l i s h   free hospitalization for the
victims.  What?  China, which we've always been taught was "communist"
dosen't have socialize medicine?  Dosen't add up, does it?)

Would like some input from those who live in these countries and others
with socialized medicine.  How well do   t h e i r  medical systems
work?---Jack
jackmallory@webtv.net - 25 Oct 2003 13:15 GMT
Reading this who lives in a country where socialized medicine is
paracticed?  If there is, some of us are interested in hearing of his
experiences in seeking and getting treatment.
Barnes Bunch - 25 Oct 2003 21:23 GMT
Yes, there are people reading this with  socialised medicine.
I live in New Zealand and this is the system we have here. I have had no
trouble at all in getting treatment and I have never had a long wait for
appointments. We do have waiting list for non urgent treatment but the time
you wait varies from centre to centre, anything urgent is dealt with
straight away. From my experiences with the hospital system (which are many
and varied) I feel it works very well here.

Renae
Michael Halliwell - 26 Oct 2003 06:19 GMT
Well,  here in Canada things have been better.

The state of social medicine here is canada has been declining due to budget
constraints on government.  Generally speaking, all the care that one could
need is available, however there are long waits for certain diagnostic tools
and procedures.

In terms of seeing someone for asthma, I've had good luck...spirology was
only a week's wait.  However, my wife, who is on the list for sleep apnea
testing, is looking at 4 months for the first part of the assessment (read
meeting with the specialist) and about a year and a half to get into the
actual clinic.

It has its pros and its cons.

Michael Halliwell

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Michael Halliwell
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Peter Kolb - 26 Oct 2003 12:17 GMT
>In terms of seeing someone for asthma, I've had good luck...spirology was
>only a week's wait.  However, my wife, who is on the list for sleep apnea
>testing, is looking at 4 months for the first part of the assessment (read
>meeting with the specialist) and about a year and a half to get into the
>actual clinic.

While your wife is waiting, why doesn't she try Buteyko therapy?
This would fix both your asthma and her sleep apnea.

Peter Kolb
Biomedical Engineer

pkolb@wt.com.au
___________________________________________________

Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics

   http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm

__________________________________________________
Richard Friedel - 27 Oct 2003 08:35 GMT
> ___________________________________________________
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> __________________________________________________
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/10/22/1066631498886.html

It seems you've probably heeded the advice I posted on Oct-2, 2003 on
increasing (your already) astounding intelligence with carbon dioxide.

Congratulations!

However to deal effectively with attacks of asthma without resorting to
asthma drugs, try pursed lips breathing. To be successful this needs a
moderate degree of effort.  Or try the method recommended by Professor
D. Hillsman of UCLA on http://www.ohiou.edu/isarp/conf_00/papr_19.htm
entitled "The breathing rescue pattern"

To combat being constantly short of breath, see a doctor and try
step-synchronized breathing, i.e. simply walking along and doing a
definite number of steps (say 4) on an inhale and 4 on an exhale.  Go on
doing it for a few days till you feel breathing needs  less effort and
comes easier.  See details in various books on "breathwalking" and
"walking yoga", but IMO the method is simple enough.  Keep in touch with
a doc about what you are doing, if you have an asthma diagnosis.

However if you are still bent on increasing your intelligence with Peter
Kolb, this is the substance of what he is trying to tell us:

(http://www.winwenger.com/ebooks/guaran3.htm)

On the infinite opportunities of self-improvement with breath holding.

"Just go into one of these everywhere available swimming places and
start practicing at staying under and moving around on pool bottom for
longer and longer periods of time, an hour per day every day for 3-4
weeks. Play underwater retrieval games with your child, underwater tag
or whatever to keep him/her (and you) entertained, until you can
comfortably sustain a breath span of 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 minutes. (Most
people can go to 4 to 4-1/2 minutes within 3-4 weeks, but then might
find themselves "too bright" for their surroundings.)

One more sweetener is the fact that this underwater swimming activity
also makes you (and/or your child) look good, adding about an inch per
week for awhile to chest circumference, and toning up general bearing.

For those who are unable or disinclined to go swimming, this writer has
published details of other CO2 enrichment procedures, including certain
breathing exercises, which can accomplish some of the same results.
("Sip-breathing," for example, is a procedure which allows you to
conserve your supply of CO2 half again to twice as long as you could
from simply holding your breath, to force a much richer expansion of the
Carotids. Held-breath underwater swimming, though, is much the stronger
procedure for CO2 enrichment and, further, engages that marine diving
response to further expand circulation to the brain. Thus we strongly
recommend it, to open up some truly breathtaking possibilities for you
and yours.

Lastly, not only intelligence and awareness span, and water safety, and
good looks benefit from this self-training. The ability to sustain any
kind of effort at whatever activity, clearly are a function of your
"wind." Not all of life is a breeze, and some things do require
sustained effort. In many regards, then, through held-breath underwater
swimming, you (and/or your child) can become not only brighter and
better looking, but a much more potent and effective person.

Not everyone is bright enough to appreciate the desirability of becoming
brighter. For that reason we expect that it will be mostly those who are
already intelligent who will pursue such practices as held-breath
underwater swimming to improve intelligence ("the rich get richer . . .
. . "), rather than those who appear to most need that. Still, the
apparent value of such practices appears to stretch across all ranges of
intelligence ?high, low or ordinary. Now if the reader were to be ranked
in intelligence by how s/he responded to this information and invitation
to improve intelligence . . . . . . ? Starting, perhaps, by verifying
with a doctor the CO2/Carotid expansion effect? ? Then looking up the
nearest suitable pool . . . . . "
.......................................
Then you can do a simply test of your increased brain power by looking
at Kolb's instructions on http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/biochem.htm:

                 "I. THE THEORETICAL PREMISES OF THE ICDR METHOD

The Role of Carbon Dioxide in the Vital Processes of the organism
(Chemical and Biochemical Aspects).

1. Forms of Carbon Dioxide

It is well known from the results of many investigations that carbon
dioxide in the organism of Man and animals is not only a component of
buffer systems and a regulator of respiration but is also a factor in
the control of cardiac activity and of the vascular, hormonal, nervous
and digestive systems.

At present, it can be said that carbon dioxide takes part in the control
of many of the most important physical functions in the organisms of
humans and animals.

When carbon dioxide is mentioned, often only one of its forms is
implied, that is, the gaseous CO2 or carbon dioxide gas. When that is
the case, what is being overlooked is that five different forms of
carbon dioxide can be found in an organism:....."

But don't ask Kolb what ICDR means, because even Kolb is not that
bright.

Richard Friedel
jackmallory@webtv.net - 27 Oct 2003 17:18 GMT
My question at the head of this thread was a political one, i.e. "How is
the
Socialized Medicine in your country?"

Can we keep to this subject?  Or is this thread, like so many others, to
be commandeered by arguments.  Ones, indeed, not apropos to the  subject
of the thread.   ---Jack
jackmallory@webtv.net - 29 Oct 2003 18:53 GMT
here living in countries with socialized edicine who want to make a
comment?
Arrhae - 31 Oct 2003 18:33 GMT
On 10/29/03 12:53, in article
24418-3F9FFE8D-35@storefull-2174.public.lawson.webtv.net,

> here living in countries with socialized edicine who want to make a
> comment?

My generic Ventolin HFA costs me $5 with insurance, the drug costing about
$3.  A 110mcg Flovent Diskus is $25 for the drug, ends up about $7.50 total.
125mcg Flovent HFA costs a bit more but lasts twice as long, I pay about $10
for that.  Works for me.
 
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