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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / November 2007Phytic Acid and Peanut Allergens
So .. would an increase in this phytic acid / lecithin / phosphatidylcholine in the body ALSO reduce this allergen .. response .. ? J Agric Food Chem. 2007 Oct 31;55(22):9054-8. Epub 2007 Oct 10. Links Effects of phytic Acid on peanut allergens and allergenic properties of extracts. Chung SY, Champagne ET. sychung@srrc.ars.usda.gov. Phytic acid would form soluble and insoluble complexes with proteins. Our objective was to determine if phytic acid forms insoluble complexes with major peanut allergens, and if such reaction results in a peanut extract with a lower level of soluble allergens and allergenic property. Extracts from raw and roasted peanuts were treated with and without phytic acid at various pH values and then analyzed by SDS-PAGE and a competitive inhibition ELISA (ciELISA). The ciELISA measured IgE binding using a pooled serum from peanut-allergic individuals. Results showed that phytic acid formed complexes with the major peanut allergens (Ara h 1 and Ara h 2), which were insoluble in acidic and neutral conditions. Succinylation of the allergens inhibited complex formation, indicating that lysine residues were involved. A 6-fold reduction in IgE binding or allergenic potency of the extract was observed after treatment with phytic acid. It was concluded that phytic acid formed insoluble complexes with the major peanut allergens, and resulted in a peanut extract with reduced allergenic potency. Application of phytic acid to a peanut butter slurry presented a similar result, indicating that phytic acid may find use in the development of hypoallergenic peanut-based products. PMID: 17927201 [PubMed - in process] Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk >So .. would an increase in this phytic acid / lecithin / >phosphatidylcholine in the body ALSO reduce this allergen .. >response .. ? There is no way to predict that. The conditions used in the work below really have no relevance to what would be obtained in the body. And if a complex did occur, the question would be what the body did with it. It could make things better -- or worse. Easily tested in a mouse, if someone thought it worthwhile. (I did not read the paper beyond what you included below. But it is clear from what you posted that this has no relevance to in vivo conditions.) bob >J Agric Food Chem. 2007 Oct 31;55(22):9054-8. Epub 2007 Oct 10. Links >Effects of phytic Acid on peanut allergens and allergenic properties [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >PMID: 17927201 [PubMed - in process] On Nov 8, 6:48 pm, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote:The conditions used in the work below really have no relevance to what would be obtained in the body << I would beg to differ .. Say .. hypothetically .. the fatty acid content of the body .. DOES change when presented with different fatty acid .. intake. Soo .. the simple placing of the peanut butter in the mouth would NOW be paced into the milieu .. OF .. the mouth. Sooo .. if there was phytic acid IN the mouth / phosphatidlycholine in the saliva .. then .. one might hypothesize this to be a possible way to neutralized the peanut allergen.. ? Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 19:06:57 -0800, ironjustice > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > - Show quoted text - On Nov 9, 4:06 am, ironjustice <ironjust...@cashette.com> wrote: if there was phytic acid IN the mouth / phosphatidlycholine in the saliva .. then .. one might hypothesize this to be a possible way to neutralized the peanut allergen.. << "A greater salivary concentration of alpha-linolenic acid " Fatty acid profile of human saliva: a possible indicator of dietary fat intake. Autores: Adriana B Actis, Nilda R Perovic, Daniela Defag?, Cecilia Beccacece, Aldo R Eynard L?ngua: Eng. Data: 15-12-2004 Jornal: Archives of Oral Biology (0003-9969) Release: Arch Oral Biol. 2005 Jan;50(1):1-6 Abstract: OBJECTIVE: Since conventional food questionnaires are not precise in assessing the dietary fatty acids, the purpose of this study was to determine the relationship between the salivary fatty acid profile and the alimentary habits of two different groups in an attempt to develop a more reliable way to determine the lipidic intake. DESIGN: Twenty adults of both sexes, with mixed (M) or vegetarian (V) diets were studied. Data about the fat intake were obtained by means of a Food Frequency Questionnaire (FFQ) and the presence of the main salivary fatty acids was determined by gas chromatography. RESULTS: A greater salivary concentration of alpha-linolenic acid (18:3 n-3) (2.82) was found in V than in M subjects (1.65) (p = 0.001), whilst arachidonic acid (20:4 n-6) was lower in V (3.93) than in M (4.52) (p = 0.045). The same difference regarding arachidonic acid was observed in the dietary fatty acid intake, also showing a significant correlation between its dietary and salivary levels in vegetarian subjects. CONCLUSIONS: These results show that salivary arachidonic acid, relevant for their eicosanoid production related to the tumourigenesis process and cardiovascular diseases, is influenced by dietary fats. Copyright: Archives of Oral Biology Instituto de Biolog?a Celular, Facultad de Ciencias M?dicas, Universidad Nacional de C?rdoba, Haya de la Torre y Enrique Barros, Ciudad Universitaria, 5000 Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On Nov 8, 6:48 pm, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote:The > conditions used in the work below [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > - Show quoted text - >On Nov 8, 6:48 pm, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote:The >conditions used in the work below > really have no relevance to what would be obtained in the body << > >I would beg to differ .. ok. Begging not needed, but we do need some facts. >Say .. hypothetically .. the fatty acid content of the body .. DOES >change when presented with different fatty acid .. intake. Why is fatty acid content relevant? Nothing about it in the paper. >Soo .. the simple placing of the peanut butter in the mouth would NOW >be paced into the milieu .. OF .. the mouth. >Sooo .. if there was phytic acid IN the mouth / phosphatidlycholine in >the saliva .. then .. one might hypothesize this to be a possible way >to neutralized the peanut allergen.. ? There wouldn't be any phytic acid around unless you ate some. It is not a normal part of humans -- and has toxicity problems, so any use would have be with great care. What does phosphatidylcholine have to do with it? Nothing, as near I can tell from the article. Did you actually read what they did? They take a tiny amount of peanut butter, suspend it in large amount of buffer, making a slurry, and treat with phytic acid for an hour. That does not sound very practical. The mouth is not a very good reactor for a reliable treatment with viscous food. They do wonder whether it might be possible to work out some pre-treatment of the peanuts to reduce allergen content before marketing the product -- ie, during manufacturing, where it could be done under controlled conditions. Maybe, but I wouldn't count on it. It would probably be easier to breed out the allergens. bob >> >So .. would an increase in this phytic acid / lecithin / >> >phosphatidylcholine in the body ALSO reduce this allergen .. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >> >> >PMID: 17927201 [PubMed - in process]- Hide quoted text - >>On Nov 11, 6:38 pm, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote:Why is fatty acid content relevant? Nothing about it in the paper. << Phytic acid is found in .. fatty acids .. short-chain fatty acids. >>On Nov 11, 6:38 pm, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote:There wouldn't be any phytic acid around unless you ate some << Which you do by eating a vegetarian diet which contain those short- chain fatty acids / phosphatidylcholine / phytic acid. >>On Nov 11, 6:38 pm, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote: What does phosphatidylcholine have to do with it? Nothing, as near I can tell from the article. << Phytic acid IS phosphatidylcholine / liquid form OF phytic acid. http://groups.google.com.bd/group/sci.med.nutrition/browse_thread/thread/76cc69a f3a93acfb Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 04:06:59 -0800, ironjustice > [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > > - Show quoted text - >Phytic acid IS phosphatidylcholine / liquid form OF phytic acid. No, that is just wrong. They say what phytic acid is at the start of the paper, and what they say is correct. It has absolutely nothing to do with choline, and is structurally unrelated to fatty acids. And as noted, phytic acid has toxicity problems (as they mention), so one needs great care using it. bob Phytic acid IS phosphatidylcholine / liquid form OF phytic acid. << >> On Nov 11, 8:18 pm, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote: No, that is just wrong << Phosphatidylcholine is .. vegetable lecithin. Phytic acid is phytin. Phytin = lecithin = phosphatidylcholine = phytic acid http://www.phytin.com/ What is Phytin? Phytin (known as vegetable lecithin) Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk >Phytic acid IS phosphatidylcholine / liquid form OF phytic acid. << > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >What is Phytin? >Phytin (known as vegetable lecithin) Thanks for giving a reference. I see where you are coming from. However, that does not change the answer; phytic acid is not phosphatidyl choline -- not even close. Phytic acid and phosphatidyl choline are both _specific_ chemical names. No ambiguity on these. You can look up their structures. Look them up in your own biochem book, or at: http://www.food-info.net/uk/qa/qa-fp162.htm phytic acid http://www.bmolchem.wisc.edu/courses/spring503/503-sec1/503-2.htm phosphatidyl choline You will see that these two chemicals are quite distinct. Now, phytin is a trade name and lecithin is a generic name. Phytin indeed is (a form of) phytic acid. Lecithin is a name used for preparations from various organisms (originally bird egg). It is commonly considered to be largely phosphatidyl choline. The fact that people also use the term vegetable lecithin should be a clue that it is not really the same as lecithin. Now, the site you gave does indeed say "Phytin (known as vegetable lecithin)". I think the simplest answer is that that statement is just wrong. It is also possible that the term vegetable lecithin has taken on a wider meaning than I know about. Nevertheless, what is absolutely clear is that Phytic acid and phosphatidyl choline -- both well-defined names -- refer to very different chemicals. This is basic chemistry, and not disputable. One way to see this is to google on phytin lecithin Several of the first hits make it clear that they are different. As an example: "Organic phosphorus compounds as a phosphorus source for higher ...P as sodium glycerophosphate or lecithin or phytin. There were. three replications in each treatment. ..... of phytin, lecithin and sodium glycerophosphate. ... www.springerlink.com/index/Q67274L334463135.pdf - Similar pages" Obviously, that would make no sense if lecithin and phytin were the same. Further, did you read the paper you posted originally? It gives the structure for their phytic acid, and it is NOT phosphatidyl choline. Bottom line, you may have had some reason for making the connection you did, but it is not correct. bob On Nov 12, 6:47 pm, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote: Bottom line, you may have had some reason for making the connection you did, but it is not correct. << Well you 'saying' it is not .. correct .. doesn't make it .. so. Lecithin is given to people PREFERABLY because .. ? .. it raises acetylcholine .. acetyl-choline .. acetyl-CHOLINE .. in the brain .. They give you choline to raise the .. choline .. to raise the CHOLINE in the brain .. Now .. lecithin is full of .. phosphates .. and it raises .. choline in the brain and actually is the PREFERRED .. **method** TO raise the .. choline .. in the brain. Phosphatidylcholine .. is full of phosphates and it contains .. choline .. and when administered I would bet it raises .. choline in the brain. Actually they used three different **sources** of phosphates .. and they ALL worked .. NOT because they were "all different" .. did they use them .. they used them because they are all USED as sources of phosphates. They .. **figured** the three different sources of phosphates would .. **do** the job NOT saying .. "these are all technically very different from each other and so we are testing them all " .. "they said we are using them because they are ALL .. **used** to raise .. phosphates / sources of phosphates. YOU can .. 'say' they used all 'different' but the fact remains they ALL .. work. You can .. 'say' they are all different because .. YOU .. have looked at their chemical makeup and have decided / dedeuced they are all .. different .. but .. this was proposed to ME .. over ten years ago that they ARE the same .. and POINTED out TO .. me that they ARE .. all the same .. and POINTED out to me BY a chemist. Sooo .. say all you want but .. doesn't make it .. 'so' / or more technically .. "a chemist called me up and said do you know that phytic acid and lecithin are one and the same ..?" All of them worked.. So .. the take home message IS .. lecithin raises choline in the brain .. and contains phosphates .. phytic acid raises choline in the brain and contains phosphates .. phytin raises choline in the brain and contains phosphates .. Now YOU .. 'see' a .. difference IN those three different .. names .. BUT .. since they all seem to DO the same thing .. sound the same .. are CALLED the same .. means .. to anyone watching .. 'coincidences' might think that YOU are attempting to .. lie TO them .. But since you are just .. ignorant / uninformed .. one can dedeuce no 'ill' will is involved just .. simple .. ignorance .. and therefore can be .. disregarded WITH the SAME ignorance / misunderstanding .. BUT .. **stll** GETTING the job DONE .. irregardless OF .. acceptance OF .. a .. 'possible difference' amongst .. the three or four .. substances. Lecithin is used BECAUSE of its' .. phosphates and choline .. phytic acid is used because of its' phosphates .. phytin is used because of its phosphates and I suppose just looking at the WORD phosphatidylcholine would make one SAY to you .. "buddy I might be from Texas .. but if you think that you are going to TELL me or try to convince me that phosphatidylcholine does NOT contain .. phosphates or choline .. must make you think this good old boy is .. **stupid** .. ?" I believe that IS precisely what you are saying. "Phosphatidylcholine .. is NOT the same as a substance which contains .. phosphates and choline." Yep that is what you are trying to say .. IN the face of chemists who .. agree that ... phosphatidylcholine is the same as lecithin which contains phosphates and raises choline in the brain. >>On Nov 12, 6:47 pm, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote:It is also possible that the term vegetable lecithin has taken on a wider meaning than I know about. bob << Ignorance.. ? Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk >On Nov 12, 6:47 pm, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote: Bottom >line, you may have had some reason for making the connection you did, >but it is not correct. << > >Well you 'saying' it is not .. correct .. doesn't make it .. so. Right. That is why I explained it in detail, and showed you sources, and how to find more sources. Do you have any other source that suggests phytin is called lecithin? But lecithin is probably the problem term here, used in various ways by different people. Certainly that one "dot com" site you had should not be relied on. There is absolutely no question... phytic acid and phosphatidyl choline (PC) are very different. The question came up because of the intermediate terms; and I am willing to bet the usage you found is not common. Regardless of their usage, there is no excuse for confusing phytic acid and PC. You are trying to make several connections below (and before). Some of them are correct. But one is not: phytic acid and phosphatidyl choline (PC) are very different. Be sure to separate the issues; be cautious about generalizing. ... >Now .. lecithin is full of .. phosphates .. and it raises .. choline >in the brain and actually is the PREFERRED .. **method** TO raise >the .. choline .. in the brain. >Phosphatidylcholine .. is full of phosphates and it contains .. >choline .. and when administered I would bet it raises .. choline in >the brain. That's fine, but has nothing to do with the question at hand. See next point before commenting on this. >Actually they used three different **sources** of phosphates .. and >they ALL worked .. NOT because they were "all different" .. did they >use them .. they used them because they are all USED as sources of >phosphates. Yes, yes. Several papers show that all the various chemicals can be used as sources of phosphate. That is fine. They all contain phosphate, and they are broken down to release the phosphate. That does not make them the same; it merely means that, for some purposes, all can be used as phosphate sources. They are different -- very different. They may be equivalent for one purpose (phosphate source), but not for another. Don't over-generalize. Lecithin (PC) can be used as a choline source, as you noted above. Phytic acid cannot be used as a choline source, and PC cannot be used as an inositol source. (Inositol is the building block of phytic acid. Phytic acid is inositol with six phosphates on it. Having that many phosphates so close together is (probably) why it worked for removing the peanut allergen.) >They .. **figured** the three different sources of phosphates would .. >**do** the job NOT saying .. "these are all technically very [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >YOU can .. 'say' they used all 'different' but the fact remains they >ALL .. work. They all work as phosphate sources. They are NOT equivalent for other purposes. The paper you originally posted used phytic acid, and they say what it is. If you want to try doing this with PC, you are welcome to try it. But as a chemist, I can assure you that it is rather easy to predict that PC will (almost certainly) not work. >You can .. 'say' they are all different because .. YOU .. have looked >at their chemical makeup and have decided / dedeuced they are all .. >different .. but .. this was proposed to ME .. over ten years ago that >they ARE the same .. and POINTED out TO .. me that they ARE .. all the >same .. and POINTED out to me BY a chemist. Something got lost in the translation (or memory or context). I am a chemist, and it is a simple fact, which you can look up for yourself, that phytic acid and PC are not the same. I would expect even students in an introductory course to be able to explain that. Perhaps your chemist friend explained how they both could be phosphate sources, but it is not credible that a chemist told you they were the same, or interchangable for any purpose. That is simply wrong. Go look it up. No reason to believe me; just go look it up. >but if you think that you are going to TELL me or try to >convince me that phosphatidylcholine does NOT contain .. phosphates or >choline .. PC does indeed contain choline and phosphates. No disagreement about that. Phytic acid does not [contain choline -- and choline (any form) would not work for the paper you posted. Ask the authors. Just email them and ask.]. Just go look it up. Don't rely on someone telling you; go look it up. I gave you links, to good sites; you can find more, easily. Again, I think the key point is that you are over-generalizing. Several points you make are correct. But some are not; separate them out. bob On Nov 13, 9:24 pm, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote:That is why I explained it in detail, and showed you sources << Back to square .. one .. The original article said .. "Our objective was to determine if phytic acid forms insoluble complexes with major peanut allergens" .. YOU then said "The conditions used in the work below really have no relevance to what would be obtained in the body." Then you say .. "They take a tiny amount of peanut butter, suspend it in large amount of buffer, making a slurry, and treat with phytic acid for an hour. That does not sound very practical. The mouth is not a very good reactor for a reliable treatment with viscous food." That is where I believe the .. **issue** / question became confused .. and the question which WAS and still IS .. Would the simple placing of the peanut butter into the slurry / saliva mixed with phytic acid / MOUTH .. be the **same** as placing the phytic acid and peanut butter into a testtube / slurry? You say NOT .. and I say .. it would be. You have NOT .. addressed that other than to say .. "The mouth is not a very good reactor for a reliable treatment with viscous food" .. and that I believe is NOT a good **enough** answer. Because .. logically IF .. phytic acid IS .. in my spit .. it is no different if my spit was in my mouth OR .. in a testtube .. it is STILL my spit mixed with peanut butter and since my spit is FULL of phytic acid .. then they ARE the same. Spit mixed with peanut butter and phytic acid. The **amount** OF .. phytic acid IN my spit may be questionable but the mix of the slurry / spit and phytic acid IS the same .. IE: spit mixed with phytic acid. The rest of the thread really isn't .. pertinent TO the original .. question. It may be to the whole scenario of whether phytic acid is REALLY phytin or whether phytin is really phosphatidylcholine .. or .. or .. or .. The question remains unanswered .. which is .. "is spit mixed with phytic acid in the mouth any **different** from phytic acid mixed with spit in a testtube" .. Phosphatidylcholine is a word which is bantered about .. in different circles it seems / chemistry versus nutrition .. and in this case used as a word to denote .. **lecithin**. So in the context of phosphatidylcholine BEING lecithin / nutrition wise .. not chemistry wise .. the reaction .. spit in mouth and spit in testtube .. is still the SAME .. **slurry**. Because in nutrition phosphatidylcholine is considered to BE .. lecithin and lecithin CONTAINS phytic acid. The question being .. "the slurry created by the researchers / spit in a **testtube** which contains phytic acid .. is it not the same as .. spit containing phytic acid in the **mouth**,, " .. Obviously it .. is. As to whether phytin IS lecithin OR phytic acid .. would leave one WITH .. you . Chemists. IF the seller says it IS .. and it has NEVER been tested .. which really doesn't need testing because I doubt very much if these back yard chemists REALLY 'went out of their way' to .. actually CHANGE the chemical makeup OF their product .. much at all to CREATE this substance which they sell as .. "Phytin". You 'say' "Phytin IS different from IP6 / phytic acid" .. and that is based ON .. ? Conjecture .. because as you say .. "it has never been tested by any credible researcher" .. The choline end of it came later AFTER the question .. the ORIGINAL question became somehow .. confused. The correct phrasing of THAT should have been .. lecithin is phytic acid .. phytic acid is phytin .. and phytin is lecithin and lecithin .. in .. **nutrition circles** .. is .. called phosphatidylcholine amongst other names. So .. getting back to the original question .. this time .. sans the phosphatidylcholine WORD .. is spit with phytic acid IN it .. in the mouth .. any different FROM phytic acid in spit IN a .. testtube . ? Obviously it is.. not. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk >On Nov 13, 9:24 pm, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote:That is why >I explained it in detail, and showed you sources << [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >You say NOT .. and I say .. it would be. Ok, I was not addressing that. I was addressing whether PC = PA (more on this below). Let's break that into two questions. First, let's assume you ate some phytic acid (PA) along with the peanut butter (PB). Would this work? Logically, it might. However, there are several barriers/limitations. 1. How much PA would you need? Hard to tell, but looks like they used about 1 part PA per 100 parts PB. That is a lot of PA! 2. How long does it take? They did a 1 hour treatment. People do not keep the PB in their mouth for an hour (except for what sticks to the roof). 3. PB is thick (viscous). They diluted it, in buffer. Contact between PA and PB in the mouth would be poor. 4. And then what happens? Their claim is that complex forms, which they remove. But eating them together... there is no easy way to remove the complex. So you would simply swallow the complex. Does that help? Who knows. From those points... if someone wants to try it, fine. It is unlikely to work very well, but nothing ventured, nothing gained. Now, the second question... Above I assumed that we ate some PA. Do we need to, or is it in our "spit"? I would be surprised if there is _any_ PA in saliva. And it would be astonishing if the huge amounts needed were there. Do you have any reference that addresses this... PA in saliva. (Not PC! PC is not relevant.) Ok, that should address what you asked above. >The rest of the thread really isn't .. pertinent TO the original .. >question. Ok, fair enough. Then I won't respond to the rest. But remember the paper you posted really did use PA = inositol hexaphosphate. They say so explicitly. So PC or lecithin are not relevant. The question you ask above is a reasonable question, and is easy enough to test, at various levels. I think my prediction (that it won't work) is good (or I wouldn't have made it :-) ), but it is subject to testing. I have given the reasons for my prediction, and they are based on what is actually in the paper you referred us to (which I got the day after the first exchange.) bob >Phytic acid IS phosphatidylcholine / liquid form OF phytic acid. > >http://groups.google.com.bd/group/sci.med.nutrition/browse_thread/thread/76cc69a f3a93acfb Follow-up... Not only is the statement above wrong, but there is nothing at the link you give to support the statement. bob On Nov 11, 9:20 pm, Bob <bbx107....@excite.XYZ.com> wrote: Not only is the statement above wrong, but there is nothing at the link you give to support the statement. << You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Phosphatidylcholine is lecithin and vegetable lecithin is phytin. Then **obviously** phytic acid IS phosphatidylcholine because .. ? .. phytin IS phytic acid. Using science. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk >>Phytic acid IS phosphatidylcholine / liquid form OF phytic acid. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > bob That would be typical for him. >> On Nov 12, 6:36 am, "00doc" <00...@comcast.net> wrote:That would be typical for him. << Since YOU cannot understand simple sht .. means? THAT is .. **typical** for .. YOU. FACT .. phytin IS phytic. FACT .. phytin IS lecithin. FACT .. lecithin IS phosphatidylcholine. FACT .. phytic IS .. phosphatidylcholine. Is it really.. that .. difficult to .. understand? Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > > On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 19:31:06 -0800, "ironjust...@aol.com" > > <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > That would be typical for him. |
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