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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / January 2008saw on the news tonight that inhalers are changing...
no more albuterol? something to do with the ozone? wazzup with THAT?!!! http://www.kxan.com/global/story.asp?s=7293058  Signature~u2b +*+*+*+*+*+*+ Cats know what we feel. They don't care, but they know. Albuterol is still available but the propellant has changed. Generic inhalers went from $6 each to $25. > no more albuterol? something to do with the ozone? > > wazzup with THAT?!!! > > http://www.kxan.com/global/story.asp?s=7293058 oh come -on They are just making you pay for having a chronic condition; Good luck fighting that. I can't complain. My asthma meds are the only ones they fill without question. You know? Jerks > Albuterol is still available but the propellant has changed. Generic > inhalers went from $6 each to $25. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > > http://www.kxan.com/global/story.asp?s=7293058 > oh come -on > They are just making you pay for having a chronic condition; Good luck > fighting that. I can't complain. My asthma meds are the only ones they fill > without question. You know? Jerks I believe the in about 5 years the law will allow anyone to produce the new style ozone safe inhalers. That should push the generic price back down hopefully. Ok so in 5 years how many people who are going without are still going to be present? This is just a joke. The US gov't is already picking up 40% of the nations health care costs. Were you not aware of that? > > oh come -on > > They are just making you pay for having a chronic condition; Good luck [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > new style ozone safe inhalers. That should push the generic price back > down hopefully. > Ok so in 5 years how many people who are going without are still going to be > present? This is just a joke. The US gov't is already picking up 40% of the > nations health care costs. Were you not aware of that? I agree with you. Not sure who you are trying to argue with. It sucks. Now I have to go to Mexico but their prices are going up as well. I used to go without. Took $200 a month and spread it as best I could. Now I have Tricare and Nexium costs me $3.00. $3.00! This is the really great thing about private health insurance. They made me get an upper GI to prove I needed Nexium and now they are refusing to pay for the test. The doctor's office isn't concerned because this company always denies the first claim. If they don't pay I will submit it to Tricare, - my reliable insurance from the Gov't and they will pay. What a stupid policy that makes us all jump hoops twice or three times. I suggested that I change companies - perhaps Blue Cross or Aetna, but the doctor's office reported they are having the same problems with those companies. My son is going to school in Australia where I had to purchase health insurance for this term. It cost me less than $150 for 4 months - they have gov't health care there like EVERY OTHER Civilized Nation. I pay $1100 for one month here for 4 people. Ok, so if they can do it in Australia for that price, why can't we do it here? Its not like you can count on them to pay your claim, while they are charging you an arm and a leg. I like my Gov't insurance - they pay my claims and my copays are low. My parents say the same thing. Private healthcare is a pain and you just hope you make it until you are on Medicare where you are actually covered. I'm thinking of putting my Granddaughter with Cerebral Palsy on Medicaid. I am sick of the fights with UnitedHealthcare for her care. Perhaps I can spend another 3 or 4 hours with their Customer NOSERVICE this week. They sent me a letter that said their escalation unit was the wrong place to try and change the outcome of their decision. My appeal rights are now supposed to go to the Office of Personal Management or my State Commissioner of Health. What is that? Passing the problem to some Gov't employee is what that is. Back to passing the cost onto the taxpayer. Fortunately I know one of the Commissioners of Health for the NYC area and she will help me out on this one. Meanwhile, I see the CEO that had me so angry moved to a car company and has laid off 12000 workers - while he makes Billions. They must want us to demand a change the way they are acting. When it comes to something like asthma where you might actually die, we just can't leave the outcome to the "save a buck at all cost" attitudes that exist in the private market economy. I haven't even seen SICKO, but can believe that Michael Moore is right. I had a Cuban party and tried to get some of the really great Cuban coffee via Canada. There must have been crackdown because, although it used to be possible, it isn't any longer - hope you don't find yourself in a battle with the US Gov't because you aren't buying your drugs here. I certainly don't think you should have to - but you know how we selectively enforce our laws................. > > Ok so in 5 years how many people who are going without are still going to be > > present? This is just a joke. The US gov't is already picking up 40% of the > > nations health care costs. Were you not aware of that? > > I agree with you. Not sure who you are trying to argue with. It sucks. > Now I have to go to Mexico but their prices are going up as well. > My son is going to school in Australia where I had to purchase health > insurance for this term. It cost me less than $150 for 4 months - they have > gov't health care there like EVERY OTHER Civilized Nation. I pay $1100 for > one month here for 4 people. Ok, so if they can do it in Australia for that > price, why can't we do it here? You're missing the true cost. In the UK people pay 50% tax rates. Add to that the 17% sales tax, $4/gallon gas tax and one tax after another. What proponents of socialized medicine fail to see is that nothing is free or cheap. It's all a matter of who pays it and how. The cost is there. Is the medical care better in socialized medicine countries? That can be debated but heres one stat. Survival rate for prostate cancer is over 80% in the USA. It's less than 50% in the UK. Same issue with many other well known curable illnesses. >> My son is going to school in Australia where I had to purchase health >> insurance for this term. It cost me less than $150 for 4 months - they [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > in the USA. It's less than 50% in the UK. Same issue with many other > well known curable illnesses. Your "stat" is false, of course. http://www.nytimes.com:80/2007/11/02/opinion/02krugman.html?th&emc=th "My chance of surviving prostate cancer - and thank God I was cured of it - in the United States? Eighty-two percent," says Rudy Giuliani in a new radio ad attacking Democratic plans for universal health care. "My chances of surviving prostate cancer in England? Only 44 percent, under socialized medicine." It would be a stunning comparison if it were true. But it isn't. And thereby hangs a tale - one of scare tactics, of the character of a man who would be president and, I'm sorry to say, about what's wrong with political news coverage. ... > Your "stat" is false, of course. > > http://www.nytimes.com:80/2007/11/02/opinion/02krugman.html?th&emc=th Too bad your reference is nothing more than a liberal editorial commentary. He chastises Guiliani for not sighting references, yet shows no references of his own. Then your author tells me the details are too technical. Ya, the public is too stupid to understand so just spoon feed it to us and we'll trust ya. Sorry, I've been in England and have relatives there. No way do I want to pay their tax rates nor do I want their level of health care. you are idiots. They don't cover anything. You just haven't been turned down and turned down and turned down. And then your turn to your gov't insurance which was their plan. The whole time. > > Your "stat" is false, of course. > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > have relatives there. No way do I want to pay their tax rates nor do I > want their level of health care. I have no healthcare. NONE. Right Good choice. They are passing the buck. > > Your "stat" is false, of course. > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > have relatives there. No way do I want to pay their tax rates nor do I > want their level of health care. > I have no healthcare. NONE. > Right Good choice. They are passing the buck. So someone else is supposed to pay for your healthcare. Thats passing the buck indeed. > > I have no healthcare. NONE. > > Right Good choice. They are passing the buck. > > So someone else is supposed to pay for your healthcare. Thats passing > the buck indeed. I have Healthcare - 2 plans actually that I pay for so I am not the one passing the buck - they have only to start refusing your claims and you indeed will have no insurance (although you have paid for it). The one has figured out how to beat the system and get the gov't to pay -or let the doctor take the loss since I will refuse. So you are paying as a taxpayer and it wasn't my plan that put that scenario into play. It was the company who you so admire because they are cut throat private enterprise gone amuck and paying certain employees way beyond what anyone should be paid. Don't have enough funds to make the stockholders happy, much less operate in the black or pay valid claims. So let me ask you. Since so many hospitals are now in the red, should we let them go under or should we fund them though gov't intervention, or should we let them turn away patients who can't pay? Since so many hospitals are > now in the red, should we let them go under or should we fund them though > gov't intervention, or should we let them turn away patients who can't pay? Oh, that includes people who have insurance that has a history of not paying. Or perhaps that patient should drive on to the next hospital because that hospital is unaware they won't be getting paid even though they have complied with all the "rules". Or maybe the patient should stop passing the buck, and just self insure. Then at least they have some funds in case they get something like cancer instead of being insurance poor. Or if they could always stop seeking medical help since it isn't something they can afford. The thing you just don't get is the unless people behave in a civilized manner, the whole system falls apart. If private healthcare is supposed to be so efficient and save us so much money, then tell me about the logic of dismissing all claims the first time - just so we can do all the work twice or three times. At some point, in their efforts to avoid paying claims, they will in fact end up costing more in not only frustration, but actual administrative costs. If in fact everyone fights until their claim is paid, they haven't saved themselves anything at all, have they? > TIf private healthcare is supposed to > be so efficient and save us so much money, then tell me about the logic of > dismissing all claims the first time Who dismisses ALL claims the first time? True I've had run ins with insurance a few times but not anywheres close to ALL. > If in fact everyone fights until their claim is paid, > they haven't saved themselves anything at all, have they? I have 1000's of $'s in claims every year. Have for over a decade. Your question can't be answered because its an overstated generalization rather than specific factual information with which to debate. Private insurance isn't perfect. But neither is socialized medicine. Are you aware that in most so called socialized healthcare countries it's not free? Not even close. There are premiums to pay on top of the massive taxes collected. Theres also little left for R&D. > > TIf private healthcare is supposed to > > be so efficient and save us so much money, then tell me about the logic of [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > question can't be answered because its an overstated generalization > rather than specific factual information with which to debate. Oh God. The year I had Blue Cross, they questioned every single claim. They even refused to pay for my husband's ambulance trip after a TIA after multiple attempts to collect, and although I did win in the end every single dollar, I spent my life hounding the company. Yes, I can tell you for fact, you can get every single claim denied. Let's see, this year I was prescribed 4 medications. United Healthcare is paying only for the asthma med while the Gov't picks up the cost of the other 3 for which UHC refuses to pay - even though my doctors have filled out their forms, I have written letters and I have tried alternative methods (generic and OTC and going with). None of them are way out there rarely used meds. I have had one test which has not been paid and I have had 3 office visits which I hope have been paid. My husband has had 3 office visits he hopes were paid, and one procedure which was supposed to cost $30, but end up costing $1754 (and we aren't paying it so the doctor gets that one). My son, who is here, had one ER visit which was supposed to cost $100 but has yet to be paid (from June or July), and has been turned down for medications. I think this record speaks for itself. There is little reason to go to the doctor even if you have insurance. You can't get your meds, you pay for your tests yourself and you have paid insurance premiums for the privilege of being frustrated to death. I don't think we are big users of healthcare. Each of us have been to the ER once in our entire lives and no one has any really expensive conditions like heart disease or cancer. Oh, the one drug I take, Nexium does cost a couple hundred a month. > Private insurance isn't perfect. But neither is socialized medicine. > Are you aware that in most so called socialized healthcare countries > it's not free? Not even close. There are premiums to pay on top of the > massive taxes collected. > > Theres also little left for R&D. My point is that this system while not perfect, and neither is the other one, has now reached the point of such inefficiency, it needs to be overhauled. Let me tell you why it will come to this point. Employers who don't have insurance (benefit) costs theorically can make more than the companies who do provide their workers healthcare. But whooops. They are competing, so the ones with benefits are going to have to charge higher prices and are now at an economic disadvantage. So they let their insurance lapse and now their employees are just like the rest of the people who are counting on the gov't when they have a healthcare crisis. Add to this mix your insurance company whose best interest is actually NOT PAYING your claim and you are looking at a recipe for disaster. Now nobody is paying their medical bills. When did this happen? When we entered the global economy and started competing with people in countries who have no healthcare. So many jobs can be done from any location with a computer and an internet connection. And they don't "expect" their gov't to help out in the event of their healthcare crisis. Yet. But let's just worry about what we are doing here. The first thing you need to decide is how much healthcare you owe someone morally and then can afford. If someone is in a car accident, you don't run to the scene demanding to know if the injured has insurance. So it is a given he is going to be treated somewhere (I assume, but maybe you are worse than I thought). But when there are too many of these people, the hospitals can't stay afloat, so your neighborhood hospital goes down and now you have to drive to the nearest, which may not be all that near, hospital. So now you want the gov't to come save your hospital. You see how when it comes to your losing, you want to get the Gov't to step in. Why don't all you private market types determine not to use the gov't to save your healthcare and pony up the money to keep your local hospital afloat? Some kind of use tax or maybe a based on zip code. Or maybe you will get really frustrated with the situation and decide to turn away the uninsured. Probably you will make the newspaper as inhumane. But what is really going on here is the equity - efficiency tradeoff. So you might determine where on that continuum you lay. You can go the way MA did. Make small employers provide insurance. Now 2 companies are competing on a level playing field - both of them are providing benefits. I kinda like that idea. Or you can give it all to the private market where the most expensive patients will be uninsurable and then you have to decide "are we going to help?". If not, no further action is required (you wait though until it happens to you and you can't say save your child). Or we could have the gov't pick up that slack and then spend our lives bitching about our taxes. So again, you need to decide where you stand on the equity efficiently trade off. You should watch Grady in Atlanta, a hospital with 80 million in debt they are trying to save. I know the current federal budget has money earmarked to save hospitals which are going under in AZ and New Mex - you know why. You should visit Grady There are two lines. One for people with SS numbers and one for people without and they are all treated at the same rate. And the ones without insurance won't be hounded by the doctors who aren't being paid by the health insurance companies while those of us who do have it are left to spend days a year battling. You can always tell when the economy is bad (gov't numbers don't mean much to me). Customer service goes in the toilet. And, of course, the fact is that nowdays so many previously untreatable conditions are treatable and everyone wants their condition fixed. So you have to ask yourself, do you want to help anyone else?. And the very expensive tab for the elderly. So, how old should you be when the gov't decides to limit your access to say a triple bypass. 65, 75, 85? You know, so your taxes don't go up. I don't have the answers, but those of you who haven't thought these issues through should be while you don't seem to understand that private insurance is not solving our problems because the people who are causing our problems don't have insurance and are unlikely to get it. And now my recourse is some Gov't employee. I actually expect they will be more help then I have gotten from any of my conversations with UHC. > Oh God. The year I had Blue Cross, they questioned every single claim. You're an example of one. Sure theres problems but ask anyone on medicare. It sucks and is horrendously expensive to the public. > My point is that this system while not perfect, and neither is the other > one, has now reached the point of such inefficiency, it needs to be > overhauled. Let me tell you why it will come to this point. I can agree with you completely on this point. However, any plan that simply passes the costs to someone else will not help a thing with whats broken. Socialized universal tax payer funded healthcare is a broken system before it starts here. > You should watch Grady in Atlanta, a hospital with 80 million in debt they > are trying to save. I know the current federal budget has money earmarked to > save hospitals which are going under in AZ and New Mex Theres a couple hospitals that are having trouble in AZ. However, they are hospitals that should go under. They were severely mismanaged. The majority are solvent. > > Oh God. The year I had Blue Cross, they questioned every single claim. > > You're an example of one. Sure theres problems but ask anyone on > medicare. It sucks and is horrendously expensive to the public. so. your are the best I could have asked for. An a.s whole and a jerk. THANKS . > > > Oh God. The year I had Blue Cross, they questioned every single claim. > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > THANKS . > You jerk.. My daughter called. ok so to day they (UHC) don't want cover any claims because they claim she has "other insurance" I give up. There is no way to convince you. I beg you to HAVE MY LIFE ,and if you don't like it,well, you know the option. > My daughter called. ok so to day they (UHC) don't want cover any claims > because they claim she has "other insurance" I give up. > There is no way to convince you. I beg you to HAVE MY LIFE ,and if you > don't like it,well, you know the option. Do you always reply to your own messages? I never said there weren't problems with our health care system. Just that the answer isn't tax payer funded socialized healthcare. Thank you for your really smart intellect reply. You so obviously have thought this out. > > My daughter called. ok so to day they (UHC) don't want cover any claims > > because they claim she has "other insurance" I give up. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > problems with our health care system. Just that the answer isn't tax > payer funded socialized healthcare. > so. your are the best I could have asked for. An a.s whole and a jerk. Oh geez. When you can't allow anyone to disagree with you just resort to name calling. > > Oh God. The year I had Blue Cross, they questioned every single claim. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > are hospitals that should go under. They were severely mismanaged. The > majority are solvent. No they are not solvent. Just don't know what it takes to GET YOU to come to the table. And I know really compete, and educated people who can no longer bring these businesses to the table. I wish I could. > > > Oh God. The year I had Blue Cross, they questioned every single claim. > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Cool list-pass it on to medicare people in need? Genice AARP - Medicare Prescription Drug Coverage: an extensive explanation of the new Part D benefit. http://www.aarp.org/health/medicare the site for the Medicare Part A (hospital) payor. http://www.veritusmedicare.com Resources on the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit - from the Kaiser Foundation: "The Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act of 2003 was signed into law on December 8, 2003. The Foundation has compiled some resources to reflect the latest information, as well as background materials on various parts of the law. http://www.kff.org/medicare/rxdrugbenefit.cfm" Medicare Rights Center acohen@medicarerights.org. Low income issues (esp SPAPs) http://www.medicarerights.org 1999 Medicare Overpayments Estimated At $13.5 Billion http://www.medicareoverpayments.com Consumer health information from the Harvard Medical School as well as the University of Pennsylvania's School of Dental Medicine is found at the InteliHealth site. Click on anything from "Allergies" to "Weight Management" for useful information. This is an active site with discussions on current topics of interest. InteliHealth is a subsidiary of Aetna-U.S. Healthcare, and 150 top healthcare organizations contribute to the site. http://www.InteliHealth.com Medicare and MediGap Supplemental Insurance Health economists estimate that seniors with both Medicare and Medigap spend about 30 percent more on health care than those with Medicare alone http://www.medicareandmedigap.com A free website sponsored by HealthMetrix Research, Inc. offers independent cost comparisons for Medicare HMOs. Enter your ZIP code and search, or search by the name of a city. Over 100 Medicare HMOs are listed, from Aetna-U.S. Healthcare to WellCare. The site includes "Tips for Selecting a Medicare HMO" as well as links to other Medicare websites and Frequently Asked Questions (and answers). http://www.hmos4seniors.com Medicare Part D Information. Consumer Alert. Medicare Beneficiaries Urged to be on the Look-out for Phone Scams - Includes new CMS Part D Reference Guide for Pharmacists. Medicare Part D - Resources & Links http://www.medicarepartdinformation.com Center for Medicare Advocacy Tedelman@medicareadvocacy.org medicareadvocacy.org This category includes information about states' aged and disabled Medicare beneficiaries, such as enrollment, demographics, Medicare beneficiaries and providers have certain rights and protections related to financial liability http://www.medicarebeneficiaries.com The official U.S. government site for Medicare information covers the basics of Medicare, information to help you choose a nursing home, publications, helpful contacts, information on how to recognize and prevent fraud and abuse. Health plans and nursing homes in your area can be compared. Medicare participating physicians in your area are listed, as well as prescription assistance programs. http://www.medicare.gov Medicare reform policy in the 106th Congress, a watchdog report http://www.medicarereformpolicy.com Maryland's HealthChoice Homepage http://www.dhmh.state.md.us/healthchoice Alliance for Health Reform Nonpartisan organization that conducts research on a variety of health care issues, including children's health, Medicare, and the cost and availability of health are. 1900 L St., NW, Suite 512 Washington, D.C. 20036 phone: (202) 466-5626 fax: (202) 466-6525 http://www.allhealth.org National Council on Aging Nonprofit group does research on aging issues and legislation on healthcare for the aging. Also engages in healthcare advocacy. http://www.ncoa.org This calculator allows users to enter their prescription drug costs to determine what they will pay, Useful to calculate your medicare benefits http://www.medicareprescriptiondrugcalculator.com Pharmacy Information Network Latest development in pharmaceuticals. Links to websites for specific diseases and treatments. Discussion groups. Glossary of pharmaceutical terms is provided. http://www.PharmInfo.com http://www.PharmInfo.com Families USA dmahan@familiesusa.org Enrollment/ disenrollment; late fees; plan marketing Formularies Appeals/Grievances Industry relations (PDP conflicts) Your Medicare rights http://www.medicarerights.org Medicare Access for patients RX http://www.maprx.info Yahoo Health Directory (http://www.yahoo.com/health) A good place to start your search for health information. http://www.medicarerights.org Wayne State University Institute of Gerontology - Information useful to those interested in geriatrics, the process of aging and services for the elderly. Designed for researchers, educators, practitioners, and the general public. Includes description of programs and courses, calendar of events, and tips. http://www.iog.wayne.edu/ We explain the Medicare insurance plans that fill the gaps of Medicare and the benefits, everyone with Medicare Insurance can get prescription drug advantage coverage that may help lower prescription drug costs http://www.medicareandinsurance.com Benefits Check-up (for senior citizens) http://www.benefitscheckup.org National Osteoporosis Foundation Prevention and treatment. http://www.nof.org provides ratings of doctors, dentists, hospitals, nursing homes, assisted living residences and health plans. http://www.healthgrades.com The Access to Benefits Coalition Web site, can help you see if you're eligible for low-income help and can direct you to other resources. http://www.accesstobenefits.org developed by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, this site directs you to reliable information from government agencies, nonprofit organizations, and universities about health topics, health care organizations, Medicare, health fraud, and medical privacy. http://www.healthfinder.gov Projected Early Medicare Bankruptcy Underscores Importance of Immediate Retirement Planning for All Americans postponed Medicare's bankruptcy to around 2015 - when the huge Baby Boom generation starts retiring http://www.medicarebankruptcy.com AgeNet.com Health and drug information specific to seniors including online senior drugs reviews of commonly prescribed drugs for the elderly. http://www.agenet.com Extremely complex and changing constantly, Medicare payment policy will drive $479 billion in health spending in 2008 http://www.medicarepaymentpolicy.com The Eldercare Locator, a service of the Administration on Aging, has dedicated a section of its Web site to helping those with Medicare understand the new drug benefit. http://www.eldercare.gov/Eldercare/Public/medicare.asp Therubins.com Health, medical and social information of interest to the elderly. http://www.therubins.com The Medicare prescription drug benefit This line includes Medicare benefits for prescription drugs and catastrophic coverage http://www.medicarebenefitsforprescriptiondrugs.com Network Of Care - Community-based resources and tools for seniors, people with disabilities, caregivers and service providers.http:// www.networkofcare.org Eligibility for Medicare Disability Benefits: For adults aged 18 to 64, eligibility for Medicare is tied to eligibility for Social Security Disability Income (SSDI) benefits http://www.eligibilityformedicare.com http://www.eligibilityformedicare.com ElderHope, LLC - Provides information, support, links and book recommendations to the elderly, their caregivers, and the bereaved. http://www.elderhope.com Summary of the latest report for the Social Security and Medicare programs The Impact of Social Security and Medicare on the Federal Budget http://www.socialsecurityandmedicare.com Describes the aging process, discusses myths, statistics, and problems, and suggests ways of maintaining health into old age. http://www.helpguide.org/aging_well.htm The American Diabetes Association. http://www.diabetes.org Senior Health Insurance Benefits Assistance program Benefits Assistance program provides education and information about Medicare http://www.benefitsassistanceprogram.com Senior Health Week News and information for seniors. http://www.seniorhealthweek.org medicare prescription drug bill R 108 1st U.S. House of Representatives 669 H R 1 House prescription drug bill offers skimpy benefits to seniors. http://www.prescriptiondrugbill.com Seniors Resource Guide - A guide to senior services and resources on healthcare providers, housing options, emergency services, community resources, and professional articles on aging. SeniorWorld Online A directory of health, fitness, and nutrition for seniors. http://www.seniorworld.com Whether to enroll in a Medicare drug prescription plan depends upon what kind of coverage, if any, you have join a Medicare Drug Prescription Plan. If you have. both Medicare and Medi-Cal, you can enroll in a plan that covers you http://www.medicaredrugprescriptionplan.com Keiser Institute on Aging Information on the enhancement of older adult wellness by changing the perceptions of aging and improving the quality of life. http://www.keiser.com/kioa/ transfer health-care costs from companies to the government http://www.coalitiononmedicare.com Avoiding Slips, Trips and Broken Hips Supports the ongoing UK Department of Trade and Industry campaign on falls prevention aimed at older people in the home. http://www.preventinghomefalls.gov.uk/ Senior Health Week News and information for seniors seniorhealthweek.org The Medicare Medicaid Assistance Program is available to help seniors and caregivers make informed decisions, health benefit counseling service for Medicare and Medicaid beneficiaries http://www.medicaremedicaidassistanceprogram.com Senior One Source http://www.senioronesource.com MedlinePlus: Senior Health Listings on physicians, nutrition, drug trials and caregiver support for seniors. Site info for nih.gov Medicare is a critically important source of health insurance for 43 million Americans How Medicare works http://www.healthmedicare.net Flu information from the Centers for Disease Control. http://www.cdc.gov/flu/ Research into Ageing This national registered charity in the UK furthers medical research in healthy aging at universities, hospitals and medical schools. Current research programs, newsletter, fundraising and links. Free pamphlets. "Exercise for Healthy Ageing" book and "More Active - More Often" video available for purchase. Site info for ageing.org Medicaid enrollment among elderly medicare beneficiaries Medicaid enrollment among elderly medicare beneficiaries: individual determinants, effects of state policy, and impact on service use http://www.elderlymedicare.com Offers information to the caregiver for a person with dementia. Includes a chat line for caregivers. http://www.alzwell.com for Medicare Beneficiaries. Prescription Drug Helpline is a service for Aging Groups. Helpline counselors are available to provide assistance. http://www.prescriptiondrughelpline.com Alzheimer Web Resource for research on Alzheimer's disease, including care and support for victims. werple.mira.net.au/~dhs/ad.html) Enrollment in the private Medicare plans has been growing rapidly, here is a list of them http://www.privatemedicareplans.com The Medicine Program (free prescription program) http://www.themedicineprogram.com Pennsylvania Institute on Aging University of Pennsylvania Health Care System's site. The "Institute on Aging" section provides information on holistic health, end-of-life care, Alzheimer's disease and ways the elderly can improve their health. Medicare Rights Center http://www.medicarerights.org AgeNet.com Health and drug information specific to seniors including online senior drugs reviews of commonly prescribed drugs for the elderly. Sunrise Assisted Living Inc. Owns and operates assisted living facilities which provide basic care and services to elderly. Features corporate, financial, and invstor data. (Nasdaq: SNRZ). http://www.sunriseassistedliving.com Find in-depth information to help you choose the best Medicare Plan and Drug Benefits for you consequences of caps on Medicare drug benefits http://www.medicareplansanddrugbenefits.com The National Advisory Council on Aging The NACA is a Canadian federal government organization. http://www.naca-ccnta.ca/ Low Cost Medicare Prescription Drug Plans low cost Medicare products and new prescription drug benefit. http://www.lowcostmedicare.com Action for Healthy Aging and Elderly Care The Novartis Foundation for Gerontological Research. Areas of interest to physicians and researchers, other healthcare professionals, and patients. Weekly news updates from Reuter's Health Information. Patient area topics include impaired mobility and nutrition. The Ask the Expert forum is free to view, but does require registration if you wish to participate. http://www.healthandage.com Online tutorial on how to perform a breast self-exam. http://www.intelihealth.com Helpguide: Lifelong Wellness Describes the aging process, discusses myths, statistics, and problems, and suggests ways of maintaining health into old age. Site info for helpguide.org The Patient Education Forum The American Geriatrics Society. Aging FAQ. Site info for americangeriatrics.org http://www.americangeriatrics.org/education/forum/index.shtml Step by step information to help you understand the Medicare Part D prescription drug plan and help you as you review plan options Discounts to Medicare Part D Drug Plan. Insurers adding new bells and whistles to attract senior citizens http://www.medicarepartddrugplan.com New Medicare Reimbursement Rule - step-by-step, easy-to-understand explanation of a complicated Medicare reimbursement rule http://www.medicarereimbursementrule.com Staying Healthy at 50+ AHRQ consumer information on ways people age 50 and older can stay healthy, tips on living habits, to help prevent disease, screening tests, and immunizations. Online tutorial on how to perform a breast self-exam. http://www.ahrq.gov/ppip/50plus/ Senior One Source Referral service and magazine designed to help seniors achieve a healthier life. http://www.senioronesource.com The Social Security Administration -perscription help - http://www.ssa.gov/prescriptionhelp Medicare Seniors have heard the following in waiting rooms around the USA this week. What did they think? What I've Done Linkin Park In The End Linkin Park Stronger Kanye West Bleed It Out Linkin Park Boulevard Of Broken Dreams Green Day Numb Linkin Park Mauja Hi Mauja Labh Janjua Saawariya Shail Hada Don't Matter Akon Big Girls Don't Cry Fergie Gimme More Britney Spears Hey There Delilah Plain White T's Jab Se Tere Naina SHAAN Say It Right Nelly Furtado Tired Of Being Sorry Enrique Iglesias Ye Ishq Hai Shreya Ghosal You're Beautiful James Blunt Tum Se Hi Mohit Chouhan How To Save A Life The Fray Wake Me Up When September Ends green day (as reported by http://www.chairbrownTrends.com) Our Senior Years Health Topics Articles on multiple health concerns for senior citizens, written by doctors and nurses. http://www.oursenioryears.com/health.html Senate panel OKs $35B increase for kids' health care - Bush to Veto Kids' Health Plan http://www.kidshealthplan.net The Patient Education Forum - The American Geriatrics Society. Aging FAQ. Provides health insurance coverage for those individuals who cannot obtain health insurance coverage elsewhere http://www.healthplanhome.com Baltimore Health Care Access http://www.bhca.org Jannsen Eldercare Information and resources on medical conditions related to aging, health insurance, Medicare, and nursing homes for the health care professional, consumer and caregiver. http://www.janssen-eldercare.com SeniorWorld Online A directory of health, fitness, and nutrition for seniors. Site info for seniorworld.com Senate Passes Child Health Measure The Senate passed a bill to provide coverage for 10 million youngsters after efforts to find a veto-proof bipartisan compromise in the House were cut short. Congress Set for Veto Fight on Child Health Measure http://www.childhealthmeasure.com National Health Law Program http://www.healthlaw.org FirstGov for Seniors, hosted by the Social Security Administration (SSA). http://www.seniors.gov The Resource Directory for older people is published by the National Institute on Aging and the Administration on Aging. It contains links to hundreds of websites. You can browse through its alphabetical Index by Topic ("A" begins with Adult Day Care...African-American Health...Aging Research...AIDS...). If you want to visit an organization's website, it will be in a list of groups. Appendices include one on state agencies for the aging and another on state long- term care ombudsman programs. Intended for a wide audience, this site provides names, addresses and FAX numbers for health and social welfare experts and organizations. NOTE: A print version of The Resource Directory is available by calling 1-800-222-2225. http://www.aoa.gov/ Healthy Aging Campaign Healthy Aging is a national, ongoing, health promotion designed to broaden awareness of the positive aspects of aging and to provide inspiration to adults, ages 50 plus, to improve their physical, mental, social and financial health. http://healthyaging.net ThirdAge Health Starting point for people over 40 for information about a healthy life and life style. http://www.thirdage.com/health/ push for profits could combine with a poorly designed and badly monitored Medicare payment program, operates on a fee-for-service basis http://www.medicarepaymentprogram.com Care Pathways Provides families and health professionals with details of the care options available in the USA, as well as offering support, needs assessment, and product sales. http://www.carepathways.com the site for the Medicare Part B (physician office and lab testing) payor. http://www.hgsa.com Medicare fraud claims are suspected to be about $35 billion a year http://www.medicareoversight.com Lumetra Information on Medicare for beneficiaries, their families and providers. http://www.lumetra.com ElderHope, LLC Provides information on Alzheimer s Disease, grief, medical ethics, aging, and caregiving for families, professionals, and patients. Site info for elderhope.com You can add drug coverage to the traditional Medicare plan through a "stand alone" prescription drug plan Medicare beneficiaries are eligible for the extra help if they have limited income and resources http://www.medicareplanfordrugbenefits.com The Medicare Access for Patients-RX is a coalition of patient, family caregiver, and health professional organizations committed to safeguarding patients with chronic diseases and disabilities under the new Medicare prescription drug coverage. The site, at , has numerous links, both general and state-specific, that can put you in touch with organizations that might be able to help you sort through plan choices. http://www.maprx.info Managing the Risks of Service to Seniors Excellent resource on service to seniors http://www.servicetoseniors.com When Does Someone Attain Old Age? The Ohio Department of Aging, Senior Series. SS-101-96. Site info for osu.edu Aging Issues Message Board Forum on the process and affects of aging. http://www.healthboards.com/aging-issues/ Pro-Ops Articles on common health conditions in senior citizens. Site info for rivernet.com.au Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services http://www.hcfa.gov Alzheimer's health plan debuts -- Internet Source Alzheimer's sufferers in the Valley will have access to the nation's first Medicare health plan http://www.alzheimershealthplan.com Pfizer for Living Offering personalized articles, health management tools and health information. Requires free registration. http://www.pfizerforliving.com Mental Health and Aging This site will assist older adults and their families in obtaining appropriate mental health and aging services, and teach them how to advocate to get their needs met. http://www.mhaging.org/ information about states' aged and disabled Medicare beneficiaries, such as enrollment 380000 Medicare beneficiaries signing up each week http://www.medicarebeneficiaries.com Senior Connections Resources for seniors and their caregivers in Virginia http://www.seniorconnections-va.org A Medicare HMO is a viable option for those who wish to limit their out of pocket medical expenses free medicare hmo annual cost comparisons for seniors http://www.medicarehmosearch.com Lifesphere Retirement Communities A not-for-profit family of services that offers exceptional retirement community living, home-delivered services, senior centers, a radio station, consulting services in Ohio. http://www.lifesphere.org Elderly Medicare, Medicaid Patients Not Receiving Quality Care Those who are 85 or older are the fastest-growing age group among elderly Medicare beneficiaries http://www.elderlymedicare.com the Durable Medical Equipment payor. http://www.umd.nycpic.com this free and confidential government Web site, sponsored by several federal agencies and organizations, helps you find government benefits that you may be eligible to receive. http://www.gov/benefits.gov/govbenefits_en.portal this free online service, sponsored by the National Council on the Aging, screens individuals over 55 for federal, state, and private benefits programs. http://www.benefitscheckup.org provided by the National Library of Medicine and the National Institutes of Health, this site features information on diseases and conditions and has links to dictionaries and educational materials. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus The American Cancer Society. Index on site provides links to information on care and treatment of cancer. http://www.cancer.org Thanks but that only helps those with out covered medical care. Not those of us who have it, while they refuse all claims. So while that is my problem, everyone else in the meanwhile is satisfied. Until I go under. And then they will happily admed the bankruptcy laws. > > > > Oh God. The year I had Blue Cross, they questioned every single claim. > > [quoted text clipped - 506 lines] > The American Cancer Society. Index on site provides links to > information on care and treatment of cancer. http://www.cancer.org > Thanks but that only helps those with out covered medical care. Not those of > us who have it, while they refuse all claims. So while that is my problem, > everyone else in the meanwhile is satisfied. Until I go under. And then they > will happily admed the bankruptcy laws. I have health care coverage. I can only recall a couple claims over 25 years they denied...but eventually paid. I have serious health problems so claims are weekly. Add to the fact I have been covered over those years by several different insurance companies. Changing every few years. Cigna, HealthNet, Atena, US Health, Humana and many more. They do have their problems but I'll take them any day over Canada or UK style care and/or their massive tax structures. So you are happy, so everyone should be happy. Well, my conclusion since I have gov't healthcare is that THEY are doing a better job than the private insurers who have made my life miserable. > > Thanks but that only helps those with out covered medical care. Not those of > > us who have it, while they refuse all claims. So while that is my problem, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > do have their problems but I'll take them any day over Canada or UK > style care and/or their massive tax structures. > So you are happy, so everyone should be happy. Well, my conclusion since I > have gov't healthcare is that THEY are doing a better job than the private > insurers who have made my life miserable. So you're happy with Gov. care so everyone should be happy? Too funny! No I'm not happy. But I also am not advocating universal socialized health care as the solution. It's worse. No, it seems every generation in my family is having this problem as I have posted in the past. Have you read what I posted? > > So you are happy, so everyone should be happy. Well, my conclusion since I > > have gov't healthcare is that THEY are doing a better job than the private [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > No I'm not happy. But I also am not advocating universal socialized > health care as the solution. It's worse. > No, it seems every generation in my family is having this problem as I have > posted in the past. Have you read what I posted? You mean your top posted ramblings? Every generation in my family, my neighbors family, their neighbors 2nd cousins gardeners sisters family all have not had problems. I haven't either. I prefer looking at a larger picture than just your family or mine. Medicare is horrible and struggles financially to keep afloat. You still haven't stated your solution to healthcare problems. Just some vague non-solution ramblings. > > No, it seems every generation in my family is having this problem as I have > > posted in the past. Have you read what I posted? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > still haven't stated your solution to healthcare problems. Just some > vague non-solution ramblings. No, you need to be specific. You have no solution to my problems with private insurance except you "claim" that everyone else is OK so I should be OK. I guess it is Ok with you that I pay both for my healthcare (as if I had no insurance) and my premiums while they turn down claims. Or perhaps it is Ok with you if I let the doctors take the loss when they deny, deny deny. But none of this is the point. The point is that private insurance has figured out how to pass on the costs to the taxpayer. I'm not the one doing it - they are. We can all now admire them for their smart business sense. Because while they are ripping you off, you still admire them. > But none of this is the point. The point is that private insurance has > figured out how to pass on the costs to the taxpayer. I'm not the one doing > it - they are. We can all now admire them for their smart business sense. > Because while they are ripping you off, you still admire them. The Gov. rips us off more. With socialized medicine we'll pay through the nose in taxes and premiums (look at Canada or the UK rates). In those countries going to the Dr. is easy enough. Just don't need any major procedure or care for a chronic problem. No thanks. It is not the solution to the problems in this country. > The Gov. rips us off more. With socialized medicine we'll pay through > the nose in taxes and premiums (look at Canada or the UK rates). In > those countries going to the Dr. is easy enough. Just don't need any > major procedure or care for a chronic problem. No thanks. It is not > the solution to the problems in this country. Not my experience. I have UHC refusing to pay for the test they required. I get my medications they are refusing to pay for paid for by Tricare. Really don't know what good the private insurance is to me when they don't pay. >> The Gov. rips us off more. With socialized medicine we'll pay through >> the nose in taxes and premiums (look at Canada or the UK rates). In [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > get my medications they are refusing to pay for paid for by Tricare. Really > don't know what good the private insurance is to me when they don't pay. You can change your private insurance company, it a little harder to change your goverment. Tim S > You can change your private insurance company, it a little harder to > change your goverment. > > Tim S Yeah and I seem to have one of the worst ones. Most of them were in the 50s and 60s though in satisfaction, so it isn't just my observation that they are having difficulty. Plan United Healthcare of Georgia -high- Athens/ Atlanta/ Macon Areas General Information State Georgia Plan Type HMO Telephone Number 877-835-9861 Plan Websites Accreditation(HMOs Only) Link to NCQA Scorecard Scorecard Links to Plan Brochures Quality Overall Plan Satisfaction 53.1% Plan Aetna Open Access -high- Atlanta and Athens Areas Blue Cross and Blue Shield Service Benefit Plan -std- Nationwide GEHA Benefit Plan -std- Nationwide General Information State Georgia Nationwide Nationwide Plan Type HMO FFS FFS Telephone Number 877-459-6604 Local phone # 800-821-6136 Plan Websites Accreditation(HMOs Only) N1 - Excellent U5 - Case Management N1 - Excellent Link to NCQA Scorecard Scorecard Scorecard Scorecard Links to Plan Brochures Quality Overall Plan Satisfaction 60.00 83.8 74.9 > United Healthcare of Georgia -high- Athens/ Atlanta/ Macon Areas Change companies. Just like any company there are good ones and bad ones. My company used United for 1 year. > > United Healthcare of Georgia -high- Athens/ Atlanta/ Macon Areas > > Change companies. Just like any company there are good ones and bad > ones. My company used United for 1 year. mine too. One year. Spelling lost cause. My company used United for 1 year. Must be something in the water. >> The Gov. rips us off more. With socialized medicine we'll pay through >> the nose in taxes and premiums (look at Canada or the UK rates). In >> those countries going to the Dr. is easy enough. Just don't need any >> major procedure or care for a chronic problem. No thanks. It is not >> the solution to the problems in this country. > Not my experience. You have experience in a socialized healthcare country such as Canada or the UK? Do tell which one. Medicare is HORRIBLE in this country and way under funded for the poor service it delivers. No thanks. > >> The Gov. rips us off more. With socialized medicine we'll pay through > >> the nose in taxes and premiums (look at Canada or the UK rates). In [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the UK? Do tell which one. Medicare is HORRIBLE in this country and > way under funded for the poor service it delivers. No thanks. Well if you have a child not covered by the poor service dealers, that you seem to have so much admiration for, then you would also turn to the OTHER Alternative which, well you know, is any one else. I'll love to see you prove anyone providing worse service than UHC. Good luck there. You know what, you should have my life. Spend hours corresponding to UNH and Blue Cross. I was a Freidmanic in college, but have been totally proved wrong.So there you have it. > Well if you have a child not covered by the poor service dealers, that you > seem to have so much admiration for, then you would also turn to the OTHER > Alternative which, well you know, is any one else. We already have socialized healthcare for children. It's called HCCCS which is part of Medicade funded through SCHIP. It provides lousy service that you seem to admire so much. > I'll love to see you prove anyone providing worse service than UHC. I didn't like UHC either but you seem to infer that the solution is socialized healthcare. If thats not what you infer then by all means state exactly what the solution is to you without generalizing. > luck there. You know what, you should have my life. Spend hours > corresponding to UNH and Blue Cross. I spend hours dealing with Dr's, hospititals, labs and insurance companies. It's a weekly ordeal. So today in my mailbox is an article from AARP about people dying at younger ages because Medicare didn't respond quickly enough. Doesn't seem to matter if you have public or private insurance I guess. Getting medical bills paid is just a problem right now regardless of the system in place. Except it still offends me that while the company is making money off the fact that I am ill, they are asking me to go without so they can pay their CEO insane amounts of money. > So today in my mailbox is an article from AARP about people dying at younger > ages because Medicare didn't respond quickly enough. Doesn't seem to matter [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > am ill, they are asking me to go without so they can pay their CEO insane > amounts of money. Your company is telling you to go without insurance? Or are you saying that because the insurance company isn't paying? They're paying the insurance premiums regardless of how much the CEO makes. I agree with you that some CEO's seem to make absurd salaries. However, if the company felt it could get the CEO's job done for less then they'd hire someone else for less and keep the money for themselves. > Your company is telling you to go without insurance? Or are you saying > that because the insurance company isn't paying? They're paying the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > if the company felt it could get the CEO's job done for less then they'd > hire someone else for less and keep the money for themselves. No, Companies used to be able to talk people who were covered under Tricare to not use the Company's insurance - saving themselves money and increasing the cost to the taxpayers -the full cost of the Tricare covered employees claims went to the gov't. But Warner of Virginia introduced a bill that passed that makes Tricare secondary to any other insurance that is AVAILABLE to the employee. So if you don't take the employers plan because you have Tricare, I wonder what does happen to you? There would logically have to be a penalty. I know I'm not volunteering to find out what it is. This article was about people dying before they could be covered by Medicare or Medicaid due to backups at Social Security. It was, according to this article, because the Congress has reduced funding for SS admin to the lowest rate in 34 years while at the same time, so many baby boomers in their 50s and 60s are applying. I thought when I saw the headline that it was Medicare that was not paying. I have not been on Medicare, but I have worked with them on my Mother in laws healthcare claims and they always paid hers. They pay everything, and she has many claims. I am saying that if your insurance company doesn't pay your claims, it isn't any different from not having insurance at all. I have had to pay the doctors myself in the past because I have signed forms that state if the insurance doesn't pay, I will. Insurance companies actually have an incentive to not pay claims. Its a screwy system where you get to take them to court to get them to live up to the terms of the agreement. How many individuals do you know who have done that? It is cost prohibitive. So now I tell the doctors that I won't pay either. So far no one has kicked me out of the office, but you know if it starts happening enough, the physician is going to have to do something. They can't afford not to. Keynesian Economics does not work when you factor in excessive GREED. What we need are more educated stockholders to hold those CEOs in line. The fact is that those companies are not even doing all that well. Ask yourself why these companies continue to employ these nonperforming CEOs while they increase costs to the company with these huge salaries and pensions. I have no idea - it doesn't make any sense to me unless it is because the stockholders aren't very knowledgeable. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/CompanyFocus/CEOsCutPensionsPadTh eirOwn.aspx http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/CompanyFocus/ForSelectCEOsRetirem entAndABigRaise.aspx > Keynesian Economics does not work when you factor in excessive GREED. Greed doesn't determine ones salary unless I suppose you're self employed. But then, it's your money anyways. Stockholders are usually the CEO's 'Boss'. I don't believe they're all stupid. If they could get someone else to do the job for less then they'd do so. > > Keynesian Economics does not work when you factor in excessive GREED. > > Greed doesn't determine ones salary unless I suppose you're self > employed. But then, it's your money anyways. Stockholders are usually > the CEO's 'Boss'. I don't believe they're all stupid. If they could > get someone else to do the job for less then they'd do so. Ok, so your explanation for this is............? >>> Keynesian Economics does not work when you factor in excessive GREED. >> Greed doesn't determine ones salary unless I suppose you're self [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Ok, so your explanation for this is............? Why do so many fail to understand business concepts? Always think anyone who is wealthy is just lucky and greedy rather than the result of their own hard work? I already told you your answer. Stockholders. If the job could be done for less they'd get someone else. So tell me? If it's the CEO's greed, the do tell why a company and its shareholders would approve high salaries for a CEO whose job could be done for far less? If it could, they'd pocket the savings. > So tell me? If it's the CEO's greed, the do tell why a company and its > shareholders would approve high salaries for a CEO whose job could be > done for far less? If it could, they'd pocket the savings. Because they are dumb and they don't understand business concepts - as I said before. Look at the oil market. People bidding each other up literally. So what you have here are not people behaving rationally as Econ teaches us, but instead, as psychologists have always known, behaving compulsively. I think I will ride off into the sunset with my great gov't insurance and leave the rest of you to admire yourselves. And when you get to be 65, you will probably join AARP and use your united voices to continue Medicaid. > Because they are dumb and they don't understand business concepts Thats a pretty weak generic answer! People are stupid and pay CEO's millions for no reason. Ya, got it! Yes they are stupid. But I get my claims paid, so you'all lose. You can be happy now . Bitch a bit when you pay your taxes............ But understand who passed that cost on to you. . Ya, got it! > Yes they are stupid. But I get my claims paid, so you'all lose. You can be > happy now . Bitch a bit when you pay your taxes............ > > But understand who passed that cost on to you. Those that want someone else to pay their bills. > Those that want someone else to pay their bills. That would in plain English be, those who cheat - your private enterprise. You certainly won't be the one to bring them to accountability. >> Those that want someone else to pay their bills. > > That would in plain English be, those who cheat - your private enterprise. > You certainly won't be the one to bring them to accountability. The solution isn't socialized healthcare. > The solution isn't socialized healthcare. Good, what is it then? Let's make all those uninsurable people take on their excessive healthcare costs. Let's also make sure the billionaire is happy. Right. >> The solution isn't socialized healthcare. > > Good, what is it then? Let's make all those uninsurable people take on their > excessive healthcare costs. Let's also make sure the billionaire is happy. > Right. Your solution is to transfer the costs to somebody else and punish people for being successful. Our healthcare system is a mess with rising costs. I do not feel the solution is to just pass those costs on to somebody else. That does nothing to control or reverse the massive rising healthcare costs. You don' t want to pay. Run up the flag for aborting abnormal fetuses - like those with autism. I'm not sure I'm there yet, but let's make sure we know what it is we want. THAT IS -WHAT ARE YOU WILLING TO PAY FOR? > >> The solution isn't socialized healthcare. > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > to somebody else. That does nothing to control or reverse the massive > rising healthcare costs. >Run up the flag for aborting abnormal fetuses What the heck are you talking about? Now we're discussing abortion? > What the heck are you talking about? Now we're discussing abortion? I was reading some article about how difficult decisions will become as we figure out genetic flaws. You know, when you have a child that qualifies for Medicaid because they are so expensive - like Autism or Cerebral Palsy - we are currently cost spreading . Let's suppose you are told in advance that you are going to have one of these nonproductive, uninsurable children. Will we then tell people who won't abort that they will have to bear the full brunt of their decision to retain the pregnancy and take on any and all costs associated with that child because we certainly don't want someone like that on our public dole healthcare system? Look how expensive people are as they age. Maybe we would drop people off medicare who say, smoke or drink or are obese. What is it exactly you plan to do with the uninsurable like my Brother in law since you don't like universal healthcare of any kind? >> What the heck are you talking about? Now we're discussing abortion? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > costs associated with that child because we certainly don't want someone > like that on our public dole healthcare system? Strange that you've apparently decided what my beliefs are on abortion. Stereotyping are you? Your question is of a personal nature to those that face that situation. The decision should be theirs no matter what the cost. Who should bare those costs is whats in question. > Strange that you've apparently decided what my beliefs are on abortion. > Stereotyping are you? > > Your question is of a personal nature to those that face that situation. > The decision should be theirs no matter what the cost. Who should > bare those costs is whats in question. Actually you are wrong as usual. I was wondering about my own view. That is because I understand the costs associated with these babies - it isn't just the parents who suffer. The whole family goes downhill financially. That includes the siblings if you don't have some kind of public support. > Actually you are wrong as usual. I was wondering about my own view. That is > because I understand the costs associated with these babies - it isn't just > the parents who suffer. The whole family goes downhill financially. That > includes the siblings if you don't have some kind of public support. That is true with any major health issue no matter what the age so why talk about just babies? > That is true with any major health issue no matter what the age so why > talk about just babies? That is because you ID the condition before birth. Of course, if someone develops a condition in adulthood, we could decide to terminate them because they would cost the system too much money. Particularly if they end up being nonproductive, and then can't pay their health insurance premiums or copays. >> So tell me? If it's the CEO's greed, the do tell why a company and its >> shareholders would approve high salaries for a CEO whose job could be >> done for far less? If it could, they'd pocket the savings. > > Because they are dumb and they don't understand business concepts - as I > said before. I don't thbink they are dumb or ignorant of business. I think they are being governed by fear and misinformation. The misinformation is that there are only a hand-ful of already identified people who can run theses businesses. The fact is that there are probably plenty of people who could do it and that many are not already CEO's earning huge salaries elsewhere. The other part of the falacy is that it is like a club where experience is taken as proof of competance even if all of that experience suggests otherwise. The fear part is that they are so paranodd that someone who hasn't run a large company will runt hem intot he ground and lose them money that they will hire one who has run several companies intot he ground before over someone without such CEO experience. It is just a classic example of the problems with groupthink and the human inability to apply logic and reason in the face of emotion. Signature00doc Look at the oil market. People bidding each other up literally. > So what you have here are not people behaving rationally as Econ teaches > us, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > leave the rest of you to admire yourselves. And when you get to be 65, you > will probably join AARP and use your united voices to continue Medicaid. > It is just a classic example of the problems with groupthink and the human > inability to apply logic and reason in the face of emotion. Or even applying logic to the reality of the situation. Which is what I have been saying. Business "concepts" no longer impresses me in the cold light of day. People cheat. They lie. They steal while concepts never accounts for human nature. Then they stand aside bitch about their taxes. Or that someone is passing on their "cost" of existence to others (while in fact it is these very people you admire). I am disappointed that the business "ethic" has become the standard, when it never should be applied to every day living. Even Economics tells us that the market "model'' is not useful in predicting the correct level of charity. It just doesn't work. My goodness, are we having to rediscover the wheel here? > Or even applying logic to the reality of the situation. Which is what I > have been saying. Business "concepts" no longer impresses me in the cold [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > useful in predicting the correct level of charity. It just doesn't work. My > goodness, are we having to rediscover the wheel here? So whats your plan? Let Gov. take care of you? > So whats your plan? Let Gov. take care of you? I'm thinking when the need arises, that actually is the solution. I have a manic brother in law. Can't work, isn't insurable. Good, let him die. Is that a better answer? You haven't had many knocks in life, have you? >> So whats your plan? Let Gov. take care of you? > > I'm thinking when the need arises, that actually is the solution. I have a > manic brother in law. Can't work, isn't insurable. Good, let him die. Is > that a better answer? You haven't had many knocks in life, have you? I'm not talking about you or your brother in law. I'm talking about all Americans. Should Gov. take care of all their problems they may face? Are you advocating we move toward socialism with healthcare the first step? For me, Gov. is the problem and not the solution. As for your many knocks in life I beg to differ. I've spent almost as much time in Dr's offices and hospitals the past 25 years than at home. The difference is that I do not demand that you or anyone else pay my bills. And yes, I have major medical bills that not all have been covered. > >> So whats your plan? Let Gov. take care of you? > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I'm not talking about you or your brother in law. I'm talking about all > Americans. Should Gov. take care of all their problems they may face? Yeah happens alot. That would be 144 Americans with Just ONE Disorder. Autism., > Are you advocating we move toward socialism with healthcare the first > step? For me, Gov. is the problem and not the solution. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The difference is that I do not demand that you or anyone else pay my > bills. And yes, I have major medical bills that not all have been covered Good for you. Others are on your hands. And then you can bitch LOUDLY. I don't even have any of those in my family but know how it goes down. > So whats your plan? Let Gov. take care of you? And what are you proposing exactly. >> So whats your plan? Let Gov. take care of you? > And what are you proposing exactly. I take the lack of response as a YES, that you do want Gov. to take care of you. I think the entire system needs revamping. The current system causes exhorbant healthcare rates to be charged. It causes different rates depending on who you are. Two people can go to the same hospital for the same service and be charged different rates. Simply having Gov. transfer high costs to someone else will not solve the problem of the high cost of healthcare. It punishes people for being successful. No , I asked for your ideas. NO. waiting for me to go away won't work. I want your workable solutions. > >> So whats your plan? Let Gov. take care of you? > > And what are you proposing exactly. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > transfer high costs to someone else will not solve the problem of the > high cost of healthcare. It punishes people for being successful. > No , I asked for your ideas. NO. waiting for me to go away won't work. I > want your workable solutions. I asked you and your reply was a question as above. None the less I answered whether to your liking or not. Now where is your solution? > > Well if you have a child not covered by the poor service dealers, that you > > seem to have so much admiration for, then you would also turn to the OTHER [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > I'll love to see you prove anyone providing worse service than UHC. Didn't get passed. LOLLOLL You know what, You have never had eperience with the party you like trash, do you. > I didn't like UHC either but you seem to infer that the solution is > socialized healthcare. If thats not what you infer then by all means [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I spend hours dealing with Dr's, hospititals, labs and insurance > companies. It's a weekly ordeal. Bull sh.t. > "miles" <nope@nopers.com> wrote in message >> I spend hours dealing with Dr's, hospititals, labs and insurance >> companies. It's a weekly ordeal. > > Bull sh.t. Now this reply says it all. Nobody has as bad of time as you huh? Good grief. We both have our problems dealing with healthcare. The difference is that I do not sit and whine and say someone else should take care of me. > Now this reply says it all. Nobody has as bad of time as you huh? Good > grief. We both have our problems dealing with healthcare. The > difference is that I do not sit |
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