Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / May 2007
Distended rib cage and asthma
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Steve Freides - 05 May 2007 02:05 GMT I had pretty miserable asthma and allergies as child - missed 20-30 days of school being sick, I'll spare you the rest, suffice it to say I mostly outgrew it at puberty, and although it came back in my early 40's, Singulair and Allegra together have made me function pretty normally.
I do notice, however, that the lower part of my rib cage sticks out more than most people's - I see when I look at myself on videotape exercising. (I tape myself periodically to check on my form on various movements.)
I recall hearing somewhere, perhaps on this newsgroup, that this isn't uncommon in people with a history of asthma - I'd appreciate leads to where I might read more about this. It's fairly mild in my case, certainly no need for surgery as I've heard some people have, but I would like to know more about this.
Thanks in advance.
-S-
Richard Friedel - 11 May 2007 07:52 GMT > I had pretty miserable asthma and allergies as child - missed 20-30 days > of school being sick, I'll spare you the rest, suffice it to say I [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > -S- Steve,
As you know, judging from my own experience and readings I think that asthma as we know it is unintentionally caused by doctors - a sort of disguised "Heroic Medicine" that killed George Washington and hundreds of others in the last part of the 18th and the first part of the 19th century with barbaric treatments such as bleeding, purgatives and emetics..
Take a look at the handy 1 hour video presentation by Ramdev (Google search words Ramdev and video, or simply http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-386913693756370208&q=ramdev&hl=en) with IMHO authentic yoga breathing exercises but with greatly exaggerated claims on treatment of some diseases like diabetes and thyroid to mention only few.
You will see that one yoga breathing asthma exercise as f. i. bhastrika is exactly the opposite of what western doctors tell us to do, namely to sort of break out of asthma by making upper chest breathing normal and effective. Western docs tell us to avoid upper chest breathing and do belly breathing (lie down with a book on your belly and get it moving up and down). Bronchodilators are the mainstay of their treatment, but if as seems quite likely, nature intends us to be able to open up our chest to overcome wheezing etc, then bronchodilators would be in fact a nasty trick and a source of addiction.
So strange as it sounds, the instruction of yogi Ramdev to breathe upwards and into the chest, where the lungs are might tend to correct a deformed rib-cage and any case help with asthma.
The critical point about all these weird and wonderful or mystical oriental breathing tricks and getting "prana, qi, chi, ki or cosmic energy" may lie in doing the alternate nostril breathing (anulom) with the feeling that lung inhale volume is being mysteriously boosted without any feeling of suction. It all seems like patiently savoring some expensive wine and noticing that swilling the wine around in your mouth may produce different sensations. With experiments with prana etc.. the sensation is sort of "antiasthmatic" and extremely pleasant. Asthma at one of the spectrum and prana breathing is at the other end of the breathing sensations. Neither of them is really understood (airway damage in asthma seems to be purely secondary) so it is surely logical to try out the prana stuff rather than stolidly and somewhat fanatically attempting firstly to explain asthmatic breathing in terms of fluid mechanics ignoring reflexes.
You might consider asking a doctor why bhastrika etc are not seriously considered for asthma treatment and why the "fluid mechanics" approach to breathing is so wonderful. Failing a satisfactory answer the claim of the medical professon about drugs being superior to any sort of alternative treament would seem bogus. Regards, Richard Friedel
Steve Freides - 11 May 2007 14:00 GMT I did not ask for a sermon. I share many of your views on asthma but all I'm asking for is an answer to the question I asked.
For the record, I take no regular allergy medicines nor any steroids, having successfully gotten off of Advair and Nasonex, but I do take Singulair and Allegra daily because, for me, the issue is allergies. You may rest assured that I am in excellent condition and practice a variety of yoga, qigong, and meditative practices daily, in addition to exercising vigorously enough to be a multi-time world record holder in my age and weight classes in at least one sport.
Please do not sermonize at every available opportunity.
-S- http://www.kbnj.com
>> I had pretty miserable asthma and allergies as child - missed 20-30 >> days [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > of the medical professon about drugs being superior to any sort of > alternative treament would seem bogus. Regards, Richard Friedel 00doc - 12 May 2007 14:34 GMT >I did not ask for a sermon. I share many of your views on asthma but all >I'm asking for is an answer to the question I asked. His grasp of history does not seem to be any better than his grasp of aasthma. That is unless bleeding has been found to cause respiratory symptoms and a fever and I just missed it.
The problem with his theoryt hat asthma treatments cause asthma is that the asthma is generally present before the treatments are given. That is usually how it works. First you have theproblem. Then you get the tretament. Not the other way around.
 Signature 00doc
Richard Friedel - 13 May 2007 15:48 GMT > I did not ask for a sermon. I share many of your views on asthma but > all I'm asking for is an answer to the question I asked. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Please do not sermonize at every available opportunity. Well to stop preaching, I did see a kettle bell video of you (thanks for sharing), but for me its better to breathe more quickly, with each maximum effort synchronized with an inhale and with an emphasis on upper chest breathing (which what you are trying to correct) . I simply use two inverted spade handles suspended at nose height. This is just the job for leg-assisted pull ups or arm-assisted squats at a heart rate suitable for a 20 minute training workout. Sincere regards, Richard Friedel
Steve Freides - 14 May 2007 17:15 GMT >> I did not ask for a sermon. I share many of your views on asthma but >> all I'm asking for is an answer to the question I asked. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > maximum effort synchronized with an inhale and with an emphasis on > upper chest breathing (which what you are trying to correct) . There is no "right" method of breathing for exercise - too many forms of exercise for such a blanket generalization to exist. Any such generalization, such as the common gym wisdom to exhale during the exertion phases of a lift is, at best, misguided. If one wants to generalize about breathing during exercise, the very least that needs be done is considering various categories of exercise. For brief, strenuous things such as weight lifting for one repetition at maximum or near maximum effort, the important thing is to maintain intra-abdominal pressure - this pressure helps stabilize the spine and also, through something called "irradiation", actually makes you stronger. Shake someone's hand, squeezing as hard as you can, then wait a minute, breath into your belly without allowing it to expand, hold your breath, and shake their hand again - if you "get" the concept of intra-abdominal pressure, they'll notice the difference. For extended efforts, e.g., running or even high repetition weight lifting, breathing must be matched to the movement so that a minimum of energy is used in breathing - this is often the opposite way of breathing when doing precisely the same movement for maximum effort.
I believe it's probably also fair to say there is no "right" breathing method for the rest of life, for asthmatics or not, as well. One ought to be able to belly breathe - whether or not this turns out to be an appropriate method of breathing for any given individual and situation, I cannot say.
I am not, nor was I, trying to "correct" anything about my breathing in terms of upper, lower, and the like - it works just fine. I was inquiring only about the shape of my rib cage.
> I > simply use two inverted spade handles suspended at nose height. This > is just the job for leg-assisted pull ups or arm-assisted squats at a > heart rate suitable for a 20 minute training workout. OK, then. (???)
> Sincere regards, > Richard Friedel Likewise.
-S-
NorthShoreCEO - 11 May 2007 17:02 GMT Steve, do you mean they're more visible than on most people? I would think that's a result of your workout. I looked at the video's on your website and don't see anything unusual. Most people have more fat on that part of the body, so could that be the difference?
Steve Freides - 12 May 2007 02:45 GMT > Steve, do you mean they're more visible than on most people? I would > think that's a result of your workout. I looked at the video's on > your website and don't see anything unusual. Most people have more > fat on that part of the body, so could that be the difference? I think I have this but just a little. Yes, it could just be the way I'm built, but I was truly a very sickly child, and I'm interested to know if part of "the way I'm built" is due to asthma. Really just idle curiosity here and nothing more. I see it when I extend my arms over my head, not so much otherwise.
Most people have more fat on most parts of them than I do. :)
-S-
NorthShoreCEO - 12 May 2007 13:47 GMT "Most people have more fat on most parts of them than I do. :)"
That's understandable with that workout.
I'm guessing here, but I don't think asthma impacts the structural part of one's body. I have linemen (football players) here, plus we're Italian and like to eat, so you can't go by us, but one of my son's friends is very thin, and when he raises his arms his rib cage really sticks out - to the point where it almost looks unnatural. I think it just looks more pronounced in people who don't have much body fat.
SJF - 12 May 2007 16:35 GMT >I had pretty miserable asthma and allergies as child - missed 20-30 days of >school being sick, I'll spare you the rest, suffice it to say I mostly [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > -S- I'm a bit vague on this, but for what it's worth --
When I was in high school, long ago, one of my school mates had what was called "pigeon breast", a protruding central area from a deformed rib cage. In some of my early readings after contracting adult onset asthma about 25 years ago, I recall that this can be caused by severe chronic asthma as a child.
SJF
Steve Freides - 14 May 2007 17:05 GMT >>I had pretty miserable asthma and allergies as child - missed 20-30 >>days of school being sick, I'll spare you the rest, suffice it to say [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > SJF Ah, bingo! That's it - Google finds quite a bit on this, so I'll do some reading. As I said in my original posting, I don't think I have this badly and others here think it's likely that I don't have this at all, which is to say the way my rib cage is shaped falls within what is considered normal. I don't know and, truth be told, it really don't matter, but I am curious to read about this more for my own education.
Thanks for the lead.
-S-
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