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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / November 2006adult onset asthma: what went wrong
I am still trying to figure out what exactly went wrong when I developed my asthma last year. My docs could not figure it out so far. The symptoms are consistent with all scenarios I know of, but I get no relief from treatments that seem to help most people. I still belive that there must be a rational way to figure this thing out. Here are the facts I know for sure: 1. The asthma started with a sore throat and a very bitter taste in my mouth. This makes my docs think that it's a sinus infection. But antibioitics and sinus washes do nothing, and sinus CT scans show minimal sinus conjestion. 2. I start coughing after meals and fluid intakes. But GERD medicines do nothing. 3. I start coughing when taking hot showers. Don't know what it means and what can be done about it. 4. I start coughing when stressed. No VCD was found. 5. I get conjested when sleeping flat on my back. So I sleep with 3 pillows. Is this consistent with nasal drip? Or GERD? Or both? 6. I get pain in the throat and cough when exercising vigorously. Minimal chest tightness. After living through this, I become immune to any cough for several hours and feel like I am born again. But pre-treating myself with albuterol does not eliminate the sympotms. 7. This one kills me. My peak flow meter is always at 750-800, no matter how bad/good I am feeling. 8. I am cured when I travel outside of Bay Area. But anti-allergy medicines don't help. In summary, allergies, sinus infections, GERD, asthma, etc are all cnsistent, but medicines aimed to treat the above don't help. How do I approach this puzzle? Keeping a diary of every move I take and see if there is any pattern? > I am still trying to figure out what exactly went wrong when I ..... Don't get me wrong or think I'm just being flippant, but with your sporting activities I should think of the adage about learning to sail with having to capzise 6 times. With asthma drugs I'd keep in mind the posssible danger of their causing or worsening GERD. Try some yoga breathwork using the 1 hour online video on http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-386913693756370208&q=ramdev&hl=en. See posting on breathing thru the nose for new insights into breathing and the alleged crucial role of endignous nitric oxide tending to show a scientific basis for such exercises. Regards and hope you get better soon, Richard Friedel > I am still trying to figure out what exactly went wrong when I > developed my asthma last year. My docs could not figure it out so far. > The symptoms are consistent with all scenarios I know of, but I get no > relief from treatments that seem to help most people. I still belive > that there must be a rational way to figure this thing out. Here are > the facts I know for sure: If you ever figure this out, make sure and post back because you could have described what happens to me and I haven't figured it out. I know some things that help, but, like you have tried plenty that don't. My own conclusion at this stage is that I have multiple things going on. > 1. The asthma started with a sore throat and a very bitter taste in my > mouth. This makes my docs think that it's a sinus infection. But > antibioitics and sinus washes do nothing, and sinus CT scans show > minimal sinus conjestion. On the sinus newsgroup, several have posted that they convinced their doctors to do sinus surgery even after a negative sinus CT scan and the doctors were surprised at the extent of their disease. Look into the new Balloon Sinuplasty before you decide to go this route, but you should know that a CT scan, although called the "gold standard", doesn't always pick up everyone who has severe disease. > 2. I start coughing after meals and fluid intakes. But GERD medicines > do nothing. Sure sounds like GERD, doesn't it? Have you had 24 hour PH monitoring? What GERD meds have you tried specifically? And for how long? More than two months on Nexium or a double dose of Acifex? If you just did an OTC, you didn't really have a valid test of the effectiveness of GERD meds. > 3. I start coughing when taking hot showers. Don't know what it means > and what can be done about it. This sounds like sinus, but you know you may have more than one thing going on. Do you have nose bleeds? Do you have a green discharge or do you need to blow your nose often? > 4. I start coughing when stressed. No VCD was found. Do you have your tonsils? They have scoped your throat and you have been told you don't have swollen tonsils? > 5. I get conjested when sleeping flat on my back. So I sleep with 3 > pillows. Is this consistent with nasal drip? Or GERD? Or both? Both, unfortunately. And people with asthma have night time symptoms. > 6. I get pain in the throat and cough when exercising vigorously. > Minimal chest tightness. After living through this, I become immune to > any cough for several hours and feel like I am born again. But > pre-treating myself with albuterol does not eliminate the sympotms. I have read post after post of people with exercise induced asthma who get no relief pre-treating with albuterol, so I wouldn't use this to eliminate asthma. Does albuterol never help you? > 7. This one kills me. My peak flow meter is always at 750-800, no > matter how bad/good I am feeling. You have never had a peak flow that was low even when you are short of breath and coughing? It is common not to have a low peak flow if you have asthma and you just take a peak flow sometime during the day. Asthma by definition comes and goes. Do you have wheezing? > 8. I am cured when I travel outside of Bay Area. But anti-allergy > medicines don't help. What exactly have you tried for allergy? I, for instance, get no relief with Claritin, but I find that drugs that "dry me up" help considerably - those are the first generation antihistamine drugs that make you sleepy. I am not sure that the nasal steroids were of that much use to me although I have diagnosable sinus disease. That didn't happen until I had had asthma symptoms for years. Just think what you have to look forward to. I even once moved to relieve my "asthma" problems and was able to go without meds for a couple of years. But in the end, the symptoms returned - not to the extent they were, but it was a disappointment. It is like you get away from one allergen, only to develop a sensitivity to another, you know? > In summary, allergies, sinus infections, GERD, asthma, etc are all > cnsistent, but medicines aimed to treat the above don't help. How do I > approach this puzzle? Keeping a diary of every move I take and see if > there is any pattern? Is your cough productive or "tight dry"? I have been at this for 13 years and I can't assure you there is an answer available to you today. I know I try to observe and noticed that I seemed to be worse just before Thunderstorms, but here it is raining today and I am having no trouble. So go figure. I do know you can't give up on yourself and you just keep looking for the answer. ....... > If you ever figure this out, make sure and post back because you could have > described what happens to me and I haven't figured it out. I know some > things that help, but, like you have tried plenty that don't. My own > conclusion at this stage is that I have multiple things going on. ... Yep, but with all due respect, we do have this ongoing nitric oxide research,. It might be flawed in some way and be a red herring. But, however the finding that the lung function of an intubated patient may be improved by 10 to 20% by taking some air containing NO from his nose that he does without while being respirated, is very impressive. The idea of this endogenous nitric oxide being a sort of vitamin for the lungs has a great appeal, and asthma approaches so far might be missing some factor in respiration, sort of like a cat chasing its own tail. See "A number of studies also suggest that in some species epithelium-derived NO accounts for the functional bronchoprotective role of the so-called epithelium-derived relaxing factor. In human airways, endogenous NO counteracts the bronchoconstriction induced by pharmacologic stimuli such as bradykinin, histamine, and methacholine. " (http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/full/10.1034/j.1398-9995.2000.00512.x?cooki eSet=1) All this tends to validate yoga claims for curing asthma. See posting on breathing thru the nose. In short, there might be the good news that only self-administered physical therapy (yoga breathing) can help. Could doctors take the initiative here? Regards, Richard Friedel > If you ever figure this out, make sure and post back because you could have > described what happens to me and I haven't figured it out. I sure will. After all, it all depends on the patient to figure out what's going on. Yes, docs can help, but you only get 10 min of their attention once a month. No wonder they can't figure it out, especially for elucive things like asthma. For the last 6 mo I've been reading stuff online myself, and asking my docs' opinion on that, and most of the time they agreed that it's worth checking out. > doctors were surprised at the extent of their disease. Look into the new > Balloon Sinuplasty before you decide to go this route, but you should know > that a CT scan, although called the "gold standard", doesn't always pick up > everyone who has severe disease. So, they are surprised only after opening up the sinuses and seeing for themselves? Amzaing. I do have an appointment with a sinus doc. BTW, from the "conjecstion" feeling in the throat - can one tell where it's coming from - nose? esphagus? lungs? there must be a way, there are only 3 options. And then it's a cause-and-effect thing to figure out which one comes first and causes the 2 others. > Have you had 24 hour PH monitoring? What GERD meds have you tried > specifically? And for how long? More than two months on Nexium or a double > dose of Acifex? If you just did an OTC, you didn't really have a valid test > of the effectiveness of GERD meds. OK, I agree, I haven't had a valid test. And no pH meter (I've heard about ). I've been taking prevacid for ~2 weeks and has disconsinuted it after seeing no effect. Also, since I knew that the asthma has originally started as a sinus infection, I was very dismissive of non-related things like GERD (which I've always had before, but nothing that would make me suffacte). Why would GERD suddently become worse exactly when the sinuses got infected? Is there an assay to determine exactly what type of fluids one gets in the throat that causes the cough? Like, a sputum and a microscopy test? Every time I eat certain foods I feel like I am drowning for ~10-15 min. The foods are not necessarily acidic. And the disgusting stuff is not acidic (I know how true reflux feels). Actually, I have access to high-end microscopes. I will probably look at the sputum (disgusting) and check in a med book what what I see means. Acutally, I have access to all sorts of biomedical stuff, but I am not an MD. Like, in theory, if I could do bloodwork on myself, and all the other assays I should be able to do myself. >Do you have nose bleeds? No Do you have a green discharge or do you need to > blow your nose often? Yes. All the time. > Do you have your tonsils? They have scoped your throat and you have been > told you don't have swollen tonsils? Yes, everything is fine. > > 5. I get conjested when sleeping flat on my back. So I sleep with 3 > > pillows. Is this consistent with nasal drip? Or GERD? Or both? > > Both, unfortunately. And people with asthma have night time symptoms. I wake up in the morning with an uneasy feeling in my lungs and noise in the lower part of the right lung (can't hear it, but can feel it, it's like a vibraiton). Once I get up it mostly goes away. >Does albuterol never help you? I believe it takes just as much time for "attacks" to go away on their own (I try not to hypervenitlate and to stay calm) as with albuterol. I do have a 13% response to albuterol by spyromtery. I've had this response long before I developed the asthma problems. Also, after reading scary stuff about adviar (I was on 500/50 2x a day) I have reduced it to 1x a day - 2 weeks ago - and haven't noticed any difference. > It is common not to have a low peak flow if you have > asthma and you just take a peak flow sometime during the day. Asthma by > definition comes and goes. Do you have wheezing? I've had wheezing only a couple of times, after very intense exercise. I do have the meter with me at all times and I compuslively meaure the ##, when feeling very good or bad. > Is your cough productive or "tight dry"? Most of the time it's productive. Don't wanna tell what it looks like :) disgusting. Figuring this out is becoming a full time job > I sure will. After all, it all depends on the patient to figure out > what's going on. Yes, docs can help, but you only get 10 min of their > attention once a month. No wonder they can't figure it out, especially > for elucive things like asthma. For the last 6 mo I've been reading > stuff online myself, and asking my docs' opinion on that, and most of > the time they agreed that it's worth checking out. Isn't it just something. I've been told everything from I am coughing for "attention" to I have Chronic Bronchitis (I am a non smoker afterall who has gone years without meds). I don't consider either of those as valid a diagnosis. Asthma is like Chronic Fatigue - a catchall diagnosis for people who are sometimes short of breath and/or coughing. Must be more than one thing going on here. Some people are reporting complete asthma remission after months of antibiotics. Others get temporary relief by moving (see MSC's posts about pollution). I saw a recent report I have to go find again about the number of people who were once diagnosed with asthma who no longer take prescription asthma meds. It was to me a surprisingly high percentage. That says infection to me. And most recently Webmed suggested that doctors treat sinus infections with 4 to 6 weeks of antibiotics, not just 7 to 10 days. So you see, it could be just a matter of undertreatment. But I am not an expert on people "getting over" allergies. I did read that it only takes a short time of not being exposed to see an improvement in allergy symptoms. But if you don't know what it is, how do you avoid it and "not get exposed" to an allergen? Have you had RAST testing or skin scratch tests? > > doctors were surprised at the extent of their disease. Look into the new > > Balloon Sinuplasty before you decide to go this route, but you should know [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > So, they are surprised only after opening up the sinuses and seeing for > themselves? Amzaing. I do have an appointment with a sinus doc. Yes, I have seen people say that - as much as you can believe from reading on the internet newsgroups. I have seen several people (how many can talk their docs into surgery after a negative CT scan, afterall?) post to that effect. I personally had the ENT get so upset about my CT Scan, I had surgery about 2 weeks after he had the results. And they said I had tested negative for any infections and cancer - but that was in the days before they tested for C or M pneumoniae. We will see now that I have an ENT at Emory and that test is now available if I have one of those infections. Since you are adult onset, you should look into the research on those infections. I believe M pneumoniae is the one that produces the productive cough. > BTW, from the "conjecstion" feeling in the throat - can one tell where > it's coming from - nose? esphagus? lungs? there must be a way, there > are only 3 options. And then it's a cause-and-effect thing to figure > out which one comes first and causes the 2 others. I can tell if the congestion is coming from my lungs or my sinuses at this point. Early on, I didn't know, but your body is able to produce that effect from any of those areas, so you can't go by the "possibilities". All cards are still in play if you know what I mean. It is common for asthmatics to report that their asthma is better after sinus surgery. Figure that out! > > Have you had 24 hour PH monitoring? What GERD meds have you tried > > specifically? And for how long? More than two months on Nexium or a double > > dose of Acifex? If you just did an OTC, you didn't really have a valid test > > of the effectiveness of GERD meds. If you have silent Gerd, the proton pump inhibitors are supposed to work best. You really need to do a 2 month test of prescription meds. I know I still have symptoms, but my doctor is certain (he was going to be the most surprised person in the room if my Ph test was negative and it was not) that I have silent GERD. And I still have problems but I am much better if I take Acifex. > OK, I agree, I haven't had a valid test. And no pH meter (I've heard > about ). I've been taking prevacid for ~2 weeks and has disconsinuted [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that would make me suffacte). Why would GERD suddently become worse > exactly when the sinuses got infected? My understanding is the acid from your stomach will burn your respiratory tract and you will experience sinus symptoms related to GERD you don't feel. I can tell you that I don't feel any reflux or heartburn, but I am convinced after taking these meds that I must have it. However I can't explain why I still have a green nasal discharge - like I must also have an infection. More than one thing going one here like I said. > Is there an assay to determine exactly what type of fluids one gets in > the throat that causes the cough? Like, a sputum and a microscopy test? > Every time I eat certain foods I feel like I am drowning for ~10-15 > min. The foods are not necessarily acidic. And the disgusting stuff is > not acidic (I know how true reflux feels). If they did I am unaware of it. Perhaps you have the option of visiting National Jewish in Denver where the bulk of the "front line" research is currently originating. > Actually, I have access to high-end microscopes. I will probably look > at the sputum (disgusting) and check in a med book what what I see > means. Acutally, I have access to all sorts of biomedical stuff, but I > am not an MD. Like, in theory, if I could do bloodwork on myself, and > all the other assays I should be able to do myself. I'm not medically trained, but http://www.sinuses.com/ has been of help to me to track on the research regarding which "bugs" are responsible for most sinusitis, although I know that isn't my only problem. Sinusitis would not account for my being "short of breath". Do you have that? > >Do you have nose bleeds? > > No With GERD or Sinusitis you could expect that, but you are early on in this game. It probably took me 6 or 7 years to develop that symptom. > Do you have a green discharge or do you need to > > blow your nose often? > > Yes. All the time. Not green unless you have a cold? Can you tell if you are having a cold, or do you pretty much have congestion all of the time? > > Do you have your tonsils? They have scoped your throat and you have been > > told you don't have swollen tonsils? > > Yes, everything is fine. You would expect with GERD to see some damage to the throat - like nodules or swollen tonsils. > > > 5. I get conjested when sleeping flat on my back. So I sleep with 3 > > > pillows. Is this consistent with nasal drip? Or GERD? Or both? Both. Sorry. > > Both, unfortunately. And people with asthma have night time symptoms. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > do have a 13% response to albuterol by spyromtery. I've had this > response long before I developed the asthma problems. My experience is that albuterol helps me "Move the mucus". I told my doctor I was "drowning in my own mucus". But this has not always been the case. I started with a tight dry cough that lasted for several years before it became productive and before I had sinus issues. Just going downhill basically over the years. > Also, after reading scary stuff about adviar (I was on 500/50 2x a > day) I have reduced it to 1x a day - 2 weeks ago - and haven't noticed > any difference. Advair doesn't help me substantially either, but albuterol does. Singular helps as did Zyrtec so I think I must have allergies too. Isn't this fun? > > It is common not to have a low peak flow if you have > > asthma and you just take a peak flow sometime during the day. Asthma by [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Figuring this out is becoming a full time job I understand that! As I told you before, I believe at this stage, and by testing that I have all three conditions. I don't think I always had all three conditions, but I have to wonder if one doesn't lead to the others. I can tell you that the Emory doctor "saw me in action" and he didn't think I was that "abnormal" over other patients who had come to him in the past. Isn't is amazing that your body can behave in such an counterproductive manner? Mostly you get online and you waste your time. I don't want to discourage you, but the fact is the internet is composed of a "bunch of nuts" all posting about their latest greatest alternative treatments. And even if you take the "latest greatest" research to your doctor, he or she will go by protocol and you will get what is "accepted' by the medical establishment. My advice is to go to a teaching hospital if it is available because, believe me, your every day physician isn't going to be able to help you. Not that they don't want to, but the answer is not available to them. > Isn't it just something. I've been told everything from I am coughing for > "attention" to I have Chronic Bronchitis (I am a non smoker afterall who has [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > thing going on here. Some people are reporting complete asthma remission > after months of antibiotics. In fact, I did try Dr Hahn's method - went through 2 months of antibiotiics. I've also gone through 3 courses of doxycycline and 1 course of amoxyciline. The latter one was for Lyme disease, which I coincidentally got when camping (speaking of Chronic Fatigue and multiple things going on). So, I am thinking if I had bacterial growth in the sinus, it's either a super bug resistant to 4 types of antibioitics (I did not list all of them above), or, it's a fungus. >And they said I had tested > negative for any infections and cancer - but that was in the days before [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > infections. I believe M pneumoniae is the one that produces the productive > cough. I think they've tested that for me too, and found nothing. But false negatives are frequent since the bacteria grow in a thin layer of cells lining up the airways, hard to get enough material for culture or PCR or wahtever they use to do the testing. > I can tell if the congestion is coming from my lungs or my sinuses at this > point. How? >.And I still have problems but I am much better if I take > Acifex. Actually, I have some left-overs of Acifex. And i will try to talk my doc into Nexium or smth. > My understanding is the acid from your stomach will burn your respiratory > tract and you will experience sinus symptoms related to GERD you don't feel. > I can tell you that I don't feel any reflux or heartburn, but I am convinced > after taking these meds that I must have it. So, they say green discharge == nasal, and clear == lungs? >However I can't explain why I > still have a green nasal discharge - like I must also have an infection. > More than one thing going one here like I said. > I'm not medically trained, but http://www.sinuses.com/ has been of help to > me to track on the research regarding which "bugs" are responsible for most > sinusitis, although I know that isn't my only problem. Sinusitis would not > account for my being "short of breath". Do you have that? I am not sure how to define "short of breath". When I exercise I am feeling "uneasy" in the lungs, and I can't talk to my exercise buddies at a pace that I never had any trouble talking (have to catch my breath while talking). I think hyperventialation through the mouth can cause that, when the sinuses are closed. > With GERD or Sinusitis you could expect that, but you are early on in this > game. Thanks :) Only one year. >It probably took me 6 or 7 years to develop that symptom. > Not green unless you have a cold? Can you tell if you are having a cold, or > do you pretty much have congestion all of the time? pretty much congested all the time. > I understand that! As I told you before, I believe at this stage, and by > testing that I have all three conditions. I don't think I always had all [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Isn't is amazing that your body can behave in such an counterproductive > manner? I would think that one would have higher chances of things not developing into each other if the doctors were more creative about their work and treated every patient as a little separate project. It should not take 1 year to go through all the possibilities we have listed above. When I showed up with my symptoms 1 year ago it took them only 1 week to rule out the "scary stuff" - lung cancer, lymphoma, leukemia, heart disease, even TB. Once that stuff has been cleared out, they essentially put me on hold. Even if I see the same doc every month, it takes him 15 min just to recall where we were last time. Or, it could be that attitude that the cause of asthma is not known anyway, so why wasting their time. And besides, there is more money to be made on chemos than on pills and inhalers. > Mostly you get online and you waste your time. I don't want to discourage > you, but the fact is the internet is composed of a "bunch of nuts" all > posting about their latest greatest alternative treatments. It's 90% garbage, but 10% is worth it. Also, understanding the technical language of most asrticles helps me a lot. And, being at academia, I have access to most PDFs (isn't it funny that they want you to pay $30 per research paper on healthcare? Isn't the point of research on helthcare to made the results available to the public?) I could shoot PDFs your way if you are interested. >And even if you > take the "latest greatest" research to your doctor, he or she will go by > protocol and you will get what is "accepted' by the medical establishment. I do go to a teaching hospital. It works both ways. Docs are definitely more open-minded, but they have much more advanced ADDs than in the private practice and the waiting times are much longer. > In fact, I did try Dr Hahn's method - went through 2 months of > antibiotiics. I've also gone through 3 courses of doxycycline and 1 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > in the sinus, it's either a super bug resistant to 4 types of > antibiotics (I did not list all of them above), or, it's a fungus. Did you find that you got any better? Or only that your constant symptoms were gone? > >And they said I had tested > > negative for any infections and cancer - but that was in the days before [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > So, they say green discharge == nasal, and clear == lungs? I dunno. They say nothing to either effect > >However I can't explain why I > > still have a green nasal discharge - like I must also have an infection. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > so why wasting their time. And besides, there is more money to be made > on chemos than on pills and inhalers.'''' This is news to me> I had no idea they knew the cause of asthma. Doc? of nuts" all > > posting about their latest greatest alternative treatments. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > research on helthcare to made the results available to the public?) I > could shoot PDFs your way if you are interested. Well it is free to me if I can get hubby to be interested. So I read it all. Not that it helps at that much; > >And even if you > > take the "latest greatest" research to your doctor, he or she will go by [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > more open-minded, but they have much more advanced ADDs than in the > private practice and the waiting times are much longer. You stay were you are. Sounds like you are good. > > In fact, I did try Dr Hahn's method - went through 2 months of > > antibiotiics. I've also gone through 3 courses of doxycycline and 1 > > course of amoxyciline. The latter one was for Lyme disease, which I > > coincidentally got when camping (speaking of Chronic Fatigue and I am sick of cut and paste today and need to apologies if I have not answered everything. Did you see new ads by CDC on Chronic F? Look into mito disease. > In fact, I did try Dr Hahn's method - went through 2 months of > antibiotiics. That's not Dr. Hahn's protocol. His calls for twelve weeks, which is three months. I'm not surprised it didn't work. > That's not Dr. Hahn's protocol. His calls for twelve weeks, > which is three months. I'm not surprised it didn't work. I gave an estimated number. If I counted it precisely, I would not be suprised if it came up to three months. The protocol I was following WAS based on Hahn's work. > > That's not Dr. Hahn's protocol. His calls for twelve weeks, > > which is three months. I'm not surprised it didn't work. > > I gave an estimated number. If I counted it precisely, I would not be > suprised if it came up to three months. The protocol I was following > WAS based on Hahn's work. I only got better - not cured either. Still I appreciated the forward progress. Did you notice no improvement? I am surprised because at least while you were on the antibiotics, their anti inflammatory effect should have made you feel a bit better. Assuming of course that you have inflammation. There were some kids that were studied at National Jewish who had asthma without inflammation - I didn't track on what happened with that research, but this might give you a direction to investigate. > Did you notice no improvement? I am surprised because at least while you > were on the antibiotics, their anti inflammatory effect should have made you > feel a bit better. Assuming of course that you have inflammation. There were > some kids that were studied at National Jewish who had asthma without > inflammation - I didn't track on what happened with that research, but this > might give you a direction to investigate. I don't recall feeling any better with the azythromycin. But the inflammation could be what's going on. Turns out, Advair was helping, and I noticed the difference after reducing the dose by a factor of 2. Took 2 weeks before the effects came back (drowning after each meal and during exercise). This was the highest dose of Advair. The idea that I am now stuck with the steroid for life is very uncomfrotable. I guess I have to choose between drowning after each meal or goiing blind sometime down the road. > I don't recall feeling any better with the azythromycin. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > uncomfrotable. I guess I have to choose between drowning after each > meal or goiing blind sometime down the road. I'm glad you are finding something that helps. Not everyone has systemic side effects from Advair. Although you are on a steroid, in the inhaled form, you don't see the same side effects (like going blind). Hopefully the IL-13 or IL 5 drugs will be out and help us. One trial that is just concluding in Dec this year is stage 2. >> That's not Dr. Hahn's protocol. His calls for twelve weeks, >> which is three months. I'm not surprised it didn't work. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > following > WAS based on Hahn's work. Got it. Some people find no relief using just Azithromycin, but do find relief with Dr. Wagshul's protocol, which combines that with doxycycline, if I recall correctly. Unfortunately, I don't know if anyone ever spelled out what that was, but maybe your doctor would be willing to contact him on your behalf. Here is his contact information: FRED WAGSHUL, M.D. ASTHMA AND RESPIRATORY CENTER OF SOUTH DAYTON, 455 Byers Road, Miamisburg, Ohio 45342 937-859-5864 With adult onset asthma following an illness, I'd be persistent, too. Runcycleski, if you haven't seen an ears, nose, throat doctor, then you've left that stone unturned. It could be that you have polyps that are contributing to your breathing problems, or a sinus infection that isn't bad enough to really knock you out, but is causing the asthma. My ent says that most chronic sinus infections are just undertreated and require six weeks on an antibiotic. Sometimes the infection is anaerobic, requiring Metronidazole aka Flagyl. Or, you may have some problem that is preventing proper drainage, like enlarged turbinates or a deviated septum. Something to at least check out. > Runcycleski, if you haven't seen an ears, nose, throat doctor, > then you've left that stone unturned. It could be that you have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > preventing proper drainage, like enlarged turbinates or a > deviated septum. I have just scheduled an appointment with an ENT. Wonder why my doc hasn't come up with the idea before. I did go through various a/biotics (wth different rationales, not just the sinuses), with no effect. ......... > I have just scheduled an appointment with an ENT. Wonder why my doc > hasn't come up with the idea before. > > I did go through various a/biotics (wth different rationales, not just > the sinuses), with no effect. But while you're about it, think of scientific priorities and less of tradition. Ongoing research shows that blood oxygenation is massively dependent on nitric oxide from the nose. Is this accepted by the ent's etc? This research provides a scientific explanation for yoga, which has a good reputation on asthma and breathing. See link I posted earlier in this thread. Ramdev should provide an expurgated version freed of Hinduism for the West, but his exercises do seem healthy and convincing. In particular the classical bhastrika exercise indicates how close thoracic asthmatic breathing in an attack with frantic rasing of the shoulders is to an efficient remedy. The only difference could be that in bhastrika sufficient nitric oxide is obtained from the nose. Don't see why asthmatic breathing in an attack should be considered perverse and why belly breathing should be taught as a remedy. On the perils of nose surgery, see http://www.bcm.edu/oto/grand/72194.html "over 60 billion dollars a year is spent on the surgical treatment of this complaint." . But the writer expressly professes that the form of the nose does not follow function, i. e. function is not understood. Could there be an ugly truth that self-treatment with breathing exercises is the better and more scientific alternative to the biomedical model, which can be stultifying? Regards, Richard Friedel |
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