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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / July 2006Change in Inhaler?
As I explained in an earlier posting headed Prednisolone. I started with Asthma about three years ago. At first I was given Asmasal clickhalors, but the condition gradually got worse and my doctor switched to a Symbicort Turbohaler. The reason I think was because in every case positive relief only came after a course of Predisolone tablets. These were to be taken six 5ml tablets a day over two weeks, each course amounting to 58 tablets. So far I have had five courses of these tablets. Yesterday I was referred to a different doctor at a local specialist clinic dealing with lung conditions. I explained that the condition was always completely cleared after a course of Prednisolone, but after about two weeks of coming off the tablets the symptoms gradually started to return. First with a cough, then with increasing wheezing chest until shortage of breath on exertion until I just couldn't breath, as if somebody had put a bag over my head. I was acutely tired but felt worse when lying down, and at night felt that I was drowning. The slightest exertion would bring on the condition. The young lady doctor was very positive saying that she thought the asthma was brought on by some permanent underlying problem, rather than just being allergic to something. Her thinking was that as the symptoms always gradually came back after coming off the Prednisolone, instead of just having attacks by coming into contact with some kind of irritant, the problem seemed to be caused be some permanent underlying condition. In fact she wondered if it was asthma in a pure asthma sense, but something else which she was looking to eradicate. Her thinking seemed to make sense, although I am not qualified to make judgement. She sent me off for a chest x-ray which showed as clear and then took a number of blood tests and asked me to return to see her in three months She also took me off the Symbicort Turbohalers to be replaced by a Flixotide Accuhaler saying that as I seemed to be entirely dependent on steroid treatment i/e the Prednisolone tablets, which she wanted to get me off. The Flixotide was more steroid based, but less harmful with side effects than the Prednisolone tablets. Apart from this asthma which took me completely by surprise. I am otherwise healthy, last year riding a motorcycle across the Sahara desert and the year before across India. So I get plenty of fresh air. I apologise for this long diatribe of my trials and tribulations but I am interested in this groups more varied views. Over here in Cheshire, England I don't think it is as easy to have open and frank conversation with your doctors as you do in the States. There is still the left over residue of a medical regime which considers itself the exclusive custodians of your body and you the mere mortal are not supposed to know about such things. A kind of mummy knows best syndrome. Thankfully it is changing fast, but as we have a National Health system which although is admirable, is massively overworked, so time with the doctor and specialist is always limited. Thanks for all your help. Roger James Murray. > As I explained in an earlier posting headed Prednisolone. I > started [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > > Roger James Murray. I've already given you my views in the first post. Based on what you've written here, I think I may have been right. You didn't seem interested, however, so hopefully you'll find a response you like when others weigh in. My dear North Shore. Yes I was interested, in fact what you said about a bacteria cause, I suspect is being bourne out. Forgive me if I did not acknowledge your advice as I should have done, was not intended. Roger. > > As I explained in an earlier posting headed Prednisolone. I > > started [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] > seem interested, however, so hopefully you'll find a response you > like when others weigh in. Hi there, I started with antihistamines (Reactine & Benadryl), the pill steroid (Prednisone), the bronchiodilater (Bricanyl) and the corticosteroid inhaler (Pulmicort). After a couple weeks I went off the Prednisone but had to continue the other treatments. Later Singulair was added. It is quite rare that I require Prednisone now. Controls that give me the bones of a 75 year old are not what I would call good. I am sick of breaking bones. Also I would like to have kids and from calling the drug companies these drugs are not proven safe for a fetus. Steroids suppress growth. I believe the research at University of Michigan that there is a link between broad spectrum antibiotics effects on the gut and developing airway allergies. So now we have 'em how do we fix 'em. It's time to find a cure. ;) AJ Roger writes: >The young lady doctor was very positive saying that she thought the >asthma was brought on by some permanent underlying problem, rather >than just being allergic to something. Have you considered gastrointestinal reflux disease or a chronic sinus infection? Do you have symptoms of either one of those diseases?  SignatureAlison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid. (650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ Evolution whispers within us. It does not shout orders. -- L.A. Times editorial, 05/10/06, via gtb Dear Mr. Murray, What makes you so darned certain that the purely symptomatic treatment offered in these backwaters of the medical industry is going to help you? Pranayama and especially kapalabhati (forced upper chest breathing presumably stimulating the sympathetic nervous system) instead to taking asthma drugs for the same stimulation is frequently recommended on the Internet. I'm probably just as allergic to the style in which articles on it are often written in as you are, but since the medical industry insists on turning a blind eye to the fact that normal inhalation (what the asthmatic wants to do) during normal breathing is dependent on suction, I'd be skeptical about its basic competence. For an article attempting to explain kapa and other similar techniques scientifically, see paper by Richard P Brown "On a neurophysiological model for the effects of yogic breathing" http://www.aolresearch.org/pdf/A%20theoretical%20appraisal%20of%20yogic%20breath .Richard%20Brown.pdf . The yogic methods, which produce f. i. orgasm-like stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system are examined and validated with functional magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), see: "A series of studies reported that Pranayama exercises (including Bhastrika, Kapalabhati, Nauli, and Agnisara) led to central nervous system (CNS) excitation. Roldan and Dostalek described three major excitatory patterns on the brain EEG including a peculiar arc or wicket rhythm of 12 to 17 Hz with maximal amplitude over the parietocentral region of the non-dominant hemisphere, a 26 to 33 Hz sinusoidal rhythm, and a high amplitude paroxysmal activity similar to recordings made during orgasm in humans and animals." This seems to mean, putting it loosely, that doing forced breaths (i. e. those performed with suction during inhalation and taking care to avoid hyperventilation) and concentrating on the solar plexus (manipura chakra) to get a voluptuous sensation may overcome an asthmatic spasm of the bronchi. Regards, Richard Friedel Dear Richard. I am not darned certain about the symptomatic treatment as you refer, or in fact about anything to do with asthma. This is why I have come to this group for advice. As I mentioned in my earlier posting, my doctor has now prescribed Flixodite inhalers. I understand these are steroid based. Are they as long term harmful as Prednisone? Roger. > Dear Richard. I am not darned certain about the symptomatic > treatment [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Roger. Roger, you might want to direct this question to doc. Richard feels asthma medication is evil, that all drugs are evil, the pharmaceutical companies are evil, all doctors are evil and our entire healthcare system is evil. Oh, and he lives in Germany. He'll tell you to strengthen your lungs by putting your finger between your lips and practicing resistance breathing. In other words, I don't think you'll get a decent answer from him. Northshore wrote "Roger, you might want to direct this question to doc. Richard feels asthma medication is evil, that all drugs are evil, the pharmaceutical companies are evil, all doctors are evil and our entire healthcare system is evil. Oh, and he lives in Germany. He'll tell you to strengthen your lungs by putting your finger between your lips and practicing resistance breathing. In other words, I don't think you'll get a decent answer from him." Northshore, glad to see we are almost on speaking terms again! To sum it, I think asthma is a side-effect of our otherwise so magnificent mainstream medicine which has eradicated so many diseases like polio, TB, malaria (in Europe) rickets etc. etc. and has shown us the path to healthy living. But there are inevitable paradoxes. One is that the dependency of lung inflation on negative pressure is ignored. Snoring is said by docs. to be due to tissues in the throat "collapsing", while a more probable explanation would be that the system is producing the necessary negative pressure. What is the point of cutting away throat tissues as an attempted surgical cure? A primitive human instinct for self-mutilation? To take a deep breath usually means inhaling through the nose. This is nonsense on a strict "scientific" medical view. By your standards, dear NS, Dr. House (Hugh Laurie) would be an enemy of mainstream medicine. Maybe your desire for polite harmony, for maximum consent is anti-scientific. What did Carl Sagan say about the need to spin alternative theories? Regards, Richard Friedel > Northshore wrote > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > like polio, TB, malaria (in Europe) rickets etc. etc. and has shown us > the path to healthy living. That's quite possible. It is more plausible that it has to do with a shift from agricultural to urban living, increasing pollution, home and office ventilation issues, and the antiseptic paranoia that makes moms fear a culture positive kitchen counter. > But there are inevitable paradoxes. One is that the dependency of lung > inflation on negative pressure is ignored. Snoring is said by docs. to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > an attempted surgical cure? A primitive human instinct for > self-mutilation? That is a fine theory, however, (besides the obvious lack of evidence or a plausible biologic rationale) it contradicts your opening statement that modern medicine is causing the increase we are seeing in asthma. Medical efforts to reduce upper airway resistance such a tonsilectomy couldn't begin to explain it. > By your standards, dear NS, Dr. House (Hugh Laurie) would be an enemy > of mainstream medicine. Maybe your desire for polite harmony, for > maximum consent is anti-scientific. What did Carl Sagan say about the > need to spin alternative theories? Regards, Richard Friedel I would suggest better sources of information upon which to build your theories. Signature00doc >Dear Richard. I am not darned certain about the symptomatic treatment >as you refer, or in fact about anything to do with asthma. This is why >I have come to this group for advice. >As I mentioned in my earlier posting, my doctor has now prescribed >Flixodite inhalers. I understand these are steroid based. Are they as >long term harmful as Prednisone? Steroid inhalers do not have the same long term harmful effects as Prednisone since they are inhaled and the absorption into the bloodstream is minimal and therefore they don't suppress the body's natural production of cortisol nor have the usual side effects of oral steroids. RC Thanks to you all. Roger. > >Dear Richard. I am not darned certain about the symptomatic treatment > >as you refer, or in fact about anything to do with asthma. This is why [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > RC |
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