Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / November 2005
Difference between Asthma and Bronchitis in Toddlers
|
|
Thread rating:  |
vasilijepetkovic@yahoo.com - 01 Nov 2005 02:28 GMT Hello All,
I have a two year old son who had three episodes of bronchitis within last twelve months. In the nutshell, all three cases (March, June, October of 2005) occurred after viral infections (he goes to child care with 20 other kids - needles to say, he gets sick often). The doctor prescribed Albuterol all three times and the problems would go away after a week or so. On one occasion we eneded up in the ER since he struggled for breath so much that we were afraid that he might be seriously hurt (they put him on an alubterol inhalator).
So, during the latest visit (today) the doc said that he's concerned that he might be developing Asthma which freaked us out (the parents).
It'd be great if someone can help me understand the likelihood of him actually having Asthma. Also, is there a site that spells out the difference between the two diseases (Asthma and Bronchitis)?
I'd appreciate any additional comment or advice.
Best,
Vasa
Subject: Difference between Asthma and Bronchitis in Toddlers
Richard Friedel - 01 Nov 2005 09:30 GMT Hi Vasa,
I'd guess that you are not getting optimum medical attention for your son. Internet advice cannot take the place of a proper medical examination and consultation, but nevertheless here are a few things that spring to mind.
In asthma there is a vicious circle: breathing gets faster and faster and culminates in extreme respiratory distress. Modern research (Dr. Gwen Skloot) holds that there is an inability to take a normal deep breath, but this in my opinion can be overcome by physiotherapy, though most people would disagree with me!
This is not so with bronchitis.
Asthma drugs such as Albuterol are prone to cause reflux (GERD) which in turn causes/worsens asthma. Albuterol may cause rebound in as much as the relief is accompanied by intervening episodes of breathlessness. Although in skilful, professional hands Albuterol might be a good short time solution to the problem, I'd want to steer clear of it altogether, especially if only bronchitis has been diagnosed. Regards, Richard Friedel
mcs - 01 Nov 2005 10:23 GMT > Hi Vasa, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > breath, but this in my opinion can be overcome by physiotherapy, though > most people would disagree with me! YOU SURE GOT THAT RIGHT RICHARD . You realize richard ,I get asthma once polluntants (verified by pollution charts) reach certain levels like clockwork. All the controlled breathing of these polluntants I might possibly make, will have no or little difference. All the clean air machines I get makes little difference although If I was able to afford the right hvac system in some building I think it can. The reason some people are concerned with environment is because some people see the negative effects people are getting because of the govt allowing so much polluntants into our areas. To the original person who posted this thread, one in four kids in some cities now have asthma. The main culprit is pollution, so I would ask if you checked the quality of air where you lived or inside your home or at daycare. Is daycare or home near allot of traffic? Is your home in bad air city? The advantage of the net is you can now get your family out of harms way if you can afford it and IF the quality of air is affecting your families health and with asthma the biggest single cause of worsening asthma is quality of air. The more research I do , the more I am convicned the govt allows the poisoning of its citizens. I smoked for ten or fifteen years and this made me more sensitive to quality of air but I can easily see how kids whose young lungs might be more suspectible to outside influnences can be negatively affected.
ARoberts - 01 Nov 2005 11:09 GMT > Hello All, > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Subject: Difference between Asthma and Bronchitis in Toddlers Here are some links that address childhood asthma and symptoms:
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/facts/asthmachildren.htm
http://www.drgreene.com/21_1308.html
http://www.chestjournal.org/cgi/content/full/116/3/619
http://parenting.ivillage.com/tp/tphealth/0,,hf1k,00.html
Good luck.
00doc - 02 Nov 2005 02:31 GMT > Hello All, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > I'd appreciate any additional comment or advice. Bronchitis is just an infection of the large airways in the lungs which is usually caused by viruses and usually gets better on its own. Sometimes wheezing is heard which can be improved with albuterol but for the most part it just needs to run its course.
Diagnosing asthma in a young child is difficult. Many children will have wheezing episodes with viral infections but about half of them will not continue to wheeze when older. There are a few things that raise the risk of later wheezing (which will be diagnosed as asthma) but the most suggestive is a family history of asthma and allergies. What usually happens is that the wheezing episodes go away by about 3 years old and then for the kids that will have asthma they come back several years after that. Due to all the uncertainty surrounding the younger kids most pediatricians will avoid the term asthma and use "reactive airways" instead.
Here is some more information.
http://www.webmd.com/hw/asthma/uf4634.asp
Unfortunately, you have met some of the less reliable sources of information on this group (Richard and mcs). Now all you need is Brad and merlin to chime in and you will pretty much have the complete set.
 Signature 00doc
Merlin - 02 Nov 2005 06:13 GMT Good Afternoon Vasa, The interesting thing with parents that associate closely with their children, is that they know the child has a problem, and they also know by intuition when any treatment is having no assistive effect. Your post here indicates this to be true and quite obviously you have no confidence in your son's treatment regimen. You must remember that the medical profession you are dealing with till only recently still insisted that smoking did not cause cancer so you are wise seeking other opinions. You obviously know your child has a depleted immune system and is catching any and everything, and your description doesn't take a rocket scientist to suggest an asthmatic event is more than likely. In that your child is two years old and quite obviously has had an increasingly manifesting problem for at least the past twelve months you might look at the period prior to that to see what could have created this condition. If by any chance the child may have been premature, (to any degree) and possibly short term breast-fed, possibly with an apparent generated sniffly condition, reflux, eczema and general sickliness in the period several weeks after being introduced to feeding formula, (most especially if that formula was based on cowsmilk) and if at any time in this early period the child was given antibiotics (just a weak antibiotic should do the trick! maybe the banana flavoured stuff!) Then you can virtually bet that was how the problem actually began. Usually in these circumstances the child has had several courses of antibiotics before they reach the age of two. Sickliness remains, recurring viral kinds of things, catching everything! If by any chance your child may fit in this category, please google this man's name, "Gary Huffnagle" he is a scientist at Michigan and if you learn anything about his work you will understand significantly more than the people pushing drugs into your poor child. So you have a "shipwreck", your child's future may well involve your actions from here! The interesting thing here is that you know this to be correct simply by your own intuition! None of my seven children or my three grandchildren have any trace of this problem, even though my history was chronic and my wife's grandmother died from asthma, most other families have the problem somewhere involving close family. Subject knowledge is essential! This problem can be addressed, it takes time, care and absolute understanding, until some semblance of normal health can be restored. More than likely your child will have food sensitivities, most likely involving cow products if the baby formula was cowsmilk based. The poor childs resistive ability can be helped by careful diet and probiotic supplements with careful nursing when they become well. If you wish further discussion indicate affirmative. This net site is inflated with pro-medication proponents who appear to be a major part of this problem, not in anyway associated with assisting or overcoming the problem. Cheers, Merlin.
00doc - 03 Nov 2005 02:22 GMT > You must remember that the medical profession you are dealing with till > only recently still insisted that smoking did not cause cancer so you > are wise seeking other opinions. ?!?!?! 50 or so years is recent? How old are you?
 Signature 00doc
Merlin - 03 Nov 2005 03:48 GMT G'day 00, I am old enough to have witnessed ridiculous American medical proffessional doctors declaring on film that "Smoking does not cause cancer"!! So much for the proffessionals in America!! How long ago was that, maybe fifteen as far as I can recall!! Credibily gap old chap!! Even the antibiotic situation is going to be another major fiasco! This child in this post here is a classic example!! I do believe that many Americans are actually learning to question some of their doctors directions there finally! We have just had a case here where an absolute idiot American doctor (surgeon) managed to get into a major hospital situation and it is currently being determined if murder charges might be laid, the carnage this chap has created is incredible. Of course it appears that the authorities here were lax with checks, but this fellow obviously was not the full dollar. So much for American Medical People. Some are supposed to have practices but are able to endlessly argue ridiculous subjects even on this site. In my book that is irresponsible, not representative of a proffessional to the slightest degree. I rest my case old chap!! Cheers, Merlin.
NorthShoreCEO - 03 Nov 2005 04:00 GMT > G'day 00, I am old enough to have witnessed ridiculous American > medical [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > I rest my case old chap!! > Cheers, Merlin. You folks must be waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy behind, Merlin. Our doctors have been talking about this since the 1960's.
Merlin - 03 Nov 2005 05:40 GMT G'day NSCEO absolutely, but the statements I am referring to were made by company prostituted doctors and the rest of the medical rabble did not contadict it! This was in the late eighties at least! That was the situation! We used to laugh about it every time it came on TV, usually in adds or whatever, I think it was like reverse propaganda. To the rest of the world it was a laughing stock! It was accepted that these monkeys were spokespersons for the entire American medical proffession. There was no resistance against them from the US side as far as we knew, so that was accepted as an American medical statement. You might appreciate the credibility problem it generated for the Americans. The cigarette lobby was virtually impossible to undemine with this ridiculous front, which at the time had some credibility. Legal challenges were beaten by this kind of evidence, people kept dying believing these statements to be true. So it is not that far back. You might appreciate the barbed comment that 00 made in my direction, so it is simply that ridiculous arrogance that I replied to. I don't know how many people he has assisted to overcome their problems with the asthmatic syndrome but I do not believe it would be very many, especially using medication as a permanent method. I have worked with a lot of families with this childs problem and been very successful in having good outcomes, so you might appreciate his comments were unhelpful and in fact possibly detrimental to the childs future. I happen to find that irresponsible. I saw no positive element in his post! But did see a sarcastic attempt of discreditation. The reply was in kind! Cheers, Merlin.
NorthShoreCEO - 03 Nov 2005 13:01 GMT > G'day NSCEO absolutely, but the statements I am referring to > were made [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > of discreditation. The reply was in kind! > Cheers, Merlin. I'm sure Doc has helped many people, Merlin. It's his job. He went to school for a long time, got his license, and is pretty open minded to things like antibiotics and supplements that have merit. The problem that I have with you and a few others who have been known to trash our medical community, is that you live in other countries and really don't know realistically what it's like here. You believed some commercial put out by the tobacco industry - a bunch of liars who will burn in hell if there is one, and judged your opinion of the medical community here on that one thing? Hardly enough exposure and experience to even allow for ANY comment on our doctors. And when anyone in any profession, whether they be lawyers or teachers or doctors, hear some broad sweeping generalization about their profession, they're going to react.
At least with doctors, we can look up online and see they're legitimate, that they have no complaints filed against them, they have no malpractice lawsuits. What are your credentials? You seem to have a story for every situation ever posted, and to tell the truth, it sounds as ridiculous as some paid shill with the title of Doctor (who may not even be the kind of doctor they're peddling him as) saying smoking cigarettes doesn't cause cancer.
No offense, of course.
00doc - 03 Nov 2005 20:55 GMT > I'm sure Doc has helped many people, Merlin. It's his job. He went to > school for a long time, got his license, and is pretty open minded to > things like antibiotics and supplements that have merit. Yeah, but the real problem, if you read his post, is that he is one of those nutters that thinks asthma meds do more harm than good.
> The problem that I have with you and a few others who have been known to > trash our medical community, is that you live in other countries and > really don't know realistically what it's like here. You believed some > commercial put out by the tobacco industry - a bunch of liars who will > burn in hell if there is one, and judged your opinion of the medical > community here on that one thing? He is also confusing 1965 with 1985.
> What are your credentials? You seem to have a story for every situation > ever posted, and to tell the truth, it sounds as ridiculous He does seem rather messianic.
 Signature 00doc
Bob - 03 Nov 2005 15:51 GMT >I have worked with a lot of families with this childs problem and been >very successful in having good outcomes, so you might appreciate his >comments were unhelpful and in fact possibly detrimental to the childs >future. I happen to find that irresponsible. No, irresponsible is when you have such skills and experience and you have not shared it with the Australian Medical Association. Surely, there must be doctors there who would jump to embrace your techniques, especially if you have, as you say, such outstanding results. Have you ever written up any of these cases, sumitted them to any of your medical journals (through someone who you know who has medical credentials)?
It seems that those who are not legally bound by medical ethics are usually the ones who have all the answers.
Perhaps it's time to bring Merlin's powers to bear. Australia would no doubt love to add another Nobel laureate to its quiver. What do you say, old chap? Are you up to the challenge?
00doc - 03 Nov 2005 20:59 GMT > It seems that those who are not legally bound by medical ethics are > usually the ones who have all the answers. Yeah, amazing how proof can be such a burden to such good therapies.
<Looking at left hand> Prove this works; become famous, wealthy, and respected if not revered; and help millions of people.
<Looking at right hand> Just help a few people at a time (maybe) and complain about the whole thing on Usenet.
Funny how many peopel seem to prefer the right hand.
> Perhaps it's time to bring Merlin's powers to bear. Australia would > no doubt love to add another Nobel laureate to its quiver. > > What do you say, old chap? Are you up to the challenge? Nah, you are neglecting the international medical cartel conspiracy to keep everyone ill. Because you know if everyone lead healhier lives theyw ould all never get sick (they would be immortal) and so drive all the docs out of business.
 Signature 00doc
Merlin - 04 Nov 2005 03:40 GMT G'day Bob, you are getting somewhat beyond reality old chap. For your information removing a childs problem cause and following commonsense practical methods works wonders. What is wrong with you people, surely you can understand that removing problems has bearing on the effect being caused by them. You persist with denial!! Cheers, Merlin
aroberts - 04 Nov 2005 06:49 GMT >G'day Bob, you are getting somewhat beyond reality old chap. >For your information removing a childs problem cause and following [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >You persist with denial!! >Cheers, Merlin The original poster wanted to know about differentiating bronchitis from asthma. I thought that he would actually like to have that question answered, and posted links that were pertinent. So did OOdoc. Instead, mcs sees this as an opportunity to veer off to obsess about his favorite and tiresome rant about pollution. No wonder he is held in contempt. He isn't here to help anyone--just to have his daily narcissistic indulgence in print. He needs to have his dose of Zyprexa increased.
Bob - 04 Nov 2005 15:22 GMT >G'day Bob, you are getting somewhat beyond reality old chap. Am I? Funny, when one really wants to accomplish something, one finds a way. Remember, we all have the ability to effect reality, given enough passion and persistence. Certainly, this is not news to you.
>For your information removing a childs problem cause and following >commonsense practical methods works wonders. With all your experience, may I suggest that you develop a flow chart of sorts, which will lead the parent through the variable possibilities associated with what you have encountered. Produce something Merlin. You're retired, full of life, and full of...stories! Use them in your upcoming treatise! Possible titles could include:
Merlin's Asthma Mysteries Revealed The Wizard's Way to keep Atopy at Bay Try the Wet Tee-Shirt...and open-nip your Airways
Merlin - 05 Nov 2005 14:56 GMT Wow, you people have really lost the plot haven't you!!! There is no way I would let any of you behind me in a tight situaton, that is for sure!! As for the rantings of the riduculous doctor on this post and elswhere on adjacent posts you have got worry that he is ready for to join your "highly efficient" CIA!! It seems he spends all his time ranting and raving on line!! I do feel sorry for the poor child that was the original subject of this post, whether you people are aware of it or not, that particular problem is common and a flow chart most likely already exists. To start with, these problems just don't happen, they are generated by a sequence of events! You need to cone out of your "Sumerian Darkness" and get a bit of field experience. You seem to miss that this site is "ALT" Asthma, surely you can understand the poor father posting on this site had some reasoning!! When people become more involved in ego trips rather than working to address a problem, one must wonder!! It is obvious you people are hoodwinked!! I suppose it was only a yankee kid, but any child with that problem deserves at least some help. I have just spent a couple of days involved with an old mans problem, goodness how long his carpets have been a problem but they most definetly are gone now! They were actually to the point of fuming, his medication had accellerated, years of suffering, no one told him!! Just as well he didn't come to this site!! Cheers, Merlin
ARoberts - 05 Nov 2005 15:32 GMT > Wow, you people have really lost the plot haven't you!!! > There is no way I would let any of you behind me in a tight situaton, > that is for sure!! > As for the rantings of the riduculous doctor on this post and elswhere > on adjacent posts you have got worry that he is ready for to join your > "highly efficient" CIA!! That is even more incomprehensible than usual.
> It seems he spends all his time ranting and raving on line!! Do you really want to compare his volume of posting to yours? Or its pertinence?
> I do feel sorry for the poor child that was the original subject of > this post, whether you people are aware of it or not, that particular > problem is common and a flow chart most likely already exists.
> To start with, these problems just don't happen, they are generated by > a sequence of events! No. Sometimes it just happens. It's genetics.
> You need to cone out of your "Sumerian Darkness" and get a bit of field > experience. > You seem to miss that this site is "ALT" Asthma, surely you can > understand the poor father posting on this site had some reasoning!! It is not "alt" to designate "alternative" medicine. You might try looking up the history of usenet before saying something silly.
> When people become more involved in ego trips rather than working to > address a problem, one must wonder!! You mean like posting reams of irrelevant material about repairing airplanes in the Far East? Or using the man's question as a springboard to rant about the American medical system?
> It is obvious you people are hoodwinked!! > I suppose it was only a yankee kid, but any child with that problem > deserves at least some help. That's a pretty gratuitous statement, even for you.
00doc - 05 Nov 2005 15:46 GMT >> Wow, you people have really lost the plot haven't you!!! >> There is no way I would let any of you behind me in a tight situaton, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Do you really want to compare his volume of posting to yours? Or its > pertinence? Oh, come on AR. He just got to one of my favorite bits. It is kind of like the "You might be a redneck" comedy.
You might have just won the argument if...
.....they complain that you can't be a real doctor because you post too much.
It ranks right up there with "you can't be a very good doctor" and "aren't you neglecting your kids right now."
It is common. Sometimes I look at a powerliftng group (did I mention that I am closing in on a 400 lb bench and 600 lb squat?) and the guys do the same thing. Two of them will go back and forth a bit (and they have the same tired arguments over and over there as well) and finally one will declare that the other must not be all that strong because he spends all his time posting and not lifting.
The wise just smile in the knowledge that it means you have gotten under their skin and "they got nothin' " to come back at you with.
>> You need to cone out of your "Sumerian Darkness" and get a bit of field >> experience. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > It is not "alt" to designate "alternative" medicine. You might try > looking up the history of usenet before saying something silly. Yeah, I liked that one too.
>> When people become more involved in ego trips rather than working to >> address a problem, one must wonder!! [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > That's a pretty gratuitous statement, even for you.
 Signature 00doc
Bob - 05 Nov 2005 16:53 GMT >(did I mention that I am closing in on a 400 lb bench and 600 lb squat?) Dear 00hulk,
At some point, before you sustain a grade 3 tendon rupture, you might consider using a lever...
Or rotate your workouts...wanna borrow my speedo?
NorthShoreCEO - 05 Nov 2005 16:22 GMT > Wow, you people have really lost the plot haven't you!!! > There is no way I would let any of you behind me in a tight [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Just as well he didn't come to this site!! > Cheers, Merlin All I did was to ask for some proof to back up all that you've been posting - a very reasonable request. We know doc is a doctor, but still wonder what engineering has to do with curing thousands of people, as you claim you've done.
Your defensiveness speaks for itself.
Merlin - 06 Nov 2005 00:31 GMT G'day NSCEO, No offence intended, and I regret having to correct you, but as usual you have distorted the fact with the inference that any "curing" was achieved in any of my material especially with the ridulous numbers you refer to. Did you actually attend a school? I know you people have problems with comprehension, and obviously believe you are the "super race" but simply no longer needing medication has no inference of any "cure". Maybe in your case you have the inference that you are "cured" but I would suspect that considering your history you could easily regress given any minor illness or immune depleting effect in an instant. In that you have had your problems abate you might consider my suggestion to really be careful. I must say I would hate to see you actually intend to make offence! I would advise you that my first foray into another asthmatics circumstances happened in 1970 and I have been involved in this exercise in varying degrees since. My appearance on the net was around 1990 and the exercise has been incredibly interesting. Prior to 1970 I had personally tried every possible remedial method without success. Problem substance avoidance alone is no real help. That is why I could not believe the method given to me had such remarkable effect and also why being skeptical meant that other instances needed to be evaluated. My experience soon learned that this effect was reproduceable in a majority of cases. Many people using the technique with substantial benefit, thinking they no longer had the problem, relaxed it's application but then often reverted to their former state. So I would put it to you that thirtyfive years of field observation in this whole area has allowed reasonable opinions to form about these kinds of problems. I do feel that previous experience with methods that did not have any benefit is also an additional twenty years at least. So could you please understand that I have never mentioned "a cure", simply a method to naturally allow some healing effect. You are a mischievous little devil aren't you? With young children when your really examine their home situations, diet and overall circumstances and begin methods of elimination of various things, plus applying other assistive ideas there is usually a slow process of reduced problem effect and with care this generally allows the child to return to normality. Once again I am not making any claim to treating anyone, simply offering a different approach from collected information at the actual scene, to tailor an intelligent approach to the problem, using applied commonsense by educating the parent with known assistive methods. It generally works! So you might appreciate I do not "treat" anyone and have never made any such claim. Following these kinds of situations is extremely interesting. In doing this kind of work it is entirely obvious that antibiotics can have incredibly adverse effect. You might even see where people go on courses of antibiotics and after a week or three feel that have been substantially helped, but then after a few more weeks have substantial reversals. This is common! In a lot of cases I could not believe that people could actually perceive that the antibiotics were fixing their problem after having personally been there and had that experience, then being informed how problematic it actually was, (by an elderly "real doctor") with supporting the ongoing asthmatic problem. So I would please request that you do not distort things like the other donkeys on this site. To reitterate, "I no treat anyone", and "I no say I cure anyone". got that!!
Cheers, Merlin.
Bob - 06 Nov 2005 14:53 GMT >So I would please request that you do not distort things like the other >donkeys on this site. >To reitterate, "I no treat anyone", and "I no say I cure anyone". got >that!! > >Cheers, Merlin. I no say I cure anyone...got it.
Ya gotta start cuttin' back on the Fosters, your Asswizziness.
Merlin - 07 Nov 2005 02:37 GMT > >So I would please request that you do not distort things like the other > >donkeys on this site. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ya gotta start cuttin' back on the Fosters, your Asswizziness. Please give let me have something to enjoy in this life, in the heat when you are melting there is nothing better than a "coldie". Good-hay to you, Merlin.
ARoberts - 07 Nov 2005 04:14 GMT >> >So I would please request that you do not distort things like the other >> >donkeys on this site. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > when you are melting there is nothing better than a "coldie". > Good-hay to you, Merlin. But not Fosters. Emerson's, Wig & Pen, Coopers, Little Creatures?
Merlin - 07 Nov 2005 08:26 GMT G'day Roberts, there is one here called "two dogs" it comes from the story about the indian child that asked how he got his name! The label is quite funny! It started off as a bit of a joke but caught on and became quite popular. There are some funny signs on some of the urinals in some of these hotels, "like re-cycling begins here"! (Please help by maximising material in the trough) One place had 40 different beers on tap, it is interesting trying each one, especially with the larger glasses. As you move along the bar the stools become lower and there is a wheelbarrow at the end! I don't recall exactly how it worked! Cheers chaps, Merlin.
NorthShoreCEO - 07 Nov 2005 14:08 GMT > G'day NSCEO, No offence intended, and I regret having to > correct you, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ridulous numbers you refer to. Did you actually attend a > school? You just type something about "ridulous" numbers, and you ask if I attended a school? My, my, aren't we testy when tested?
Cure or treated or whatever word you wish to use, you make it sound like you've found some miracle treatment, which is nothing more than identifying a persons allergies and then avoiding them. You must live in some primitive part of the world. Our doctors have been doing this for years.
> I know you people have problems with comprehension, and > obviously > believe you are the "super race" but simply no longer needing > medication has no inference of any "cure". Since asking a question has you ignoring the question completely, and simply lowering yourself to insults, I ask again. Show proof of all you claim you've done for all these people.
Maybe in your case you have
> the inference that you are "cured" but I would suspect that > considering > your history you could easily regress given any minor illness > or immune > depleting effect in an instant. Like cancer? You can't get more immune depleting than cancer and six rounds of three different chemo drugs and rituxan and major doses of prednisone, and yet, I'm breathing better than ever.
> In that you have had your problems abate you might consider my > suggestion to really be careful. How kind of you to take a moment out from your lame insults to express concern. I'm sure you're being genuine, too.
> I must say I would hate to see you actually intend to make > offence! I merely asked you to back up what you're saying. You're the one who obviously did take offense, as suddenly the tone of your emails to me has gone back to what they were the last time I asked you to prove what you were posting. I was expecting this type of knee jerk reaction, so no surprise.
> I would advise you that my first foray into another asthmatics > circumstances happened in 1970 and I have been involved in this [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > often > reverted to their former state.
> So I would put it to you that thirtyfive years of field > observation in [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > cure", > simply a method to naturally allow some healing effect. Whatever lingo you wish to use, you're painting yourself as some type of medical genius, and that's the point you ignore.
> You are a mischievous little devil aren't you? > With young children when your really examine their home [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > generally > allows the child to return to normality. No duh.
> Once again I am not making any claim to treating anyone, simply > offering a different approach from collected information at the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > methods. It > generally works! You're offering a different approach? Different than what? It's no different than anything any docs have been doing here for at least 30 years that I'm aware of. If Australia hasn't caught up yet, then I guess in your world, you WOULD be considered a genius.
> So you might appreciate I do not "treat" anyone and have never > made any > such claim. I love how you get hung up on, and put all the attention on one or two words, as though a smokescreen like that will take focus off the fact that: 1) you paint yourself as a medical genius who has handled hundreds of "cases", using a method you dreamed up all on your own, through trial and error 2) you offer no proof of anything you say
> Following these kinds of situations is extremely interesting. > In doing this kind of work it is entirely obvious that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > after a few more weeks have substantial reversals. This is > common! Yes, it is! It is MOST common in cases where asthma has been caused by bacteria! We've posted this before! The undertreated bacteria seems to come back with a vengeance! One must treat it to completely eradicate it in order to avoid this effect! What part of this are you not understanding???!!
> In a lot of cases I could not believe that people could > actually [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Cheers, Merlin. Got that! You know what else I got?! Merlin must be aussie for moron!
Cheers you mental midget!
Merlin - 09 Nov 2005 02:54 GMT To NSCEO, well you really are showing your true colours! Are you the product of an incestuous relationship or something? If you were walking down the street and someone yelled to you that your a.s was on fire, You would scream abuse and demand proof! Let us consider an interesting situation for a moment, Approximately one month ago a shipment of "birds" was received in Australia which had been sent from Canada. Some of these birds were found to have disease problems and destroyed, at least one other was determined to contain H5N1 antibodies, so the consignment was returned to Canada with a reprimand. No more similar consignments will be allowed entry. So give that some thought, location, problem and circumstances, remembering that this was just an isolated case, a one-off test detecting a potential problem, it would be interesting to have carried out some further tests in Canada.
Now let us consider meat chicken farming, we have a type of bird that is as much as two and a half times the size and weight of a normal bird at eight weeks. These meat birds are raised in controlled circumstances, their food (supposedly) contains non-human type antibiotics. An examination of tissue shows presence of antibiotic resistant bugs, this problem is also apparent in the housing for these animals. There is also presence of other human illness causing bugs in the flesh after the animals are prepared for distribution. Any careless food preparation or poor cooking routines are potentially dangerous.
Once again I am giving no proof, but you are silly enough not to understand the implications here or that beneficial routines do not need proof, in any case a great deal of proofs are in fact conjured figures. A desperate person seeks and will try anything, in a great many cases the more ridiculous things provide the best relief. I felt deep sympathy for you when I learned of your problem and offered a small idea which has benefitted many, this was even ridiculed without the donkeys understanding what it was about.
Eighteen months ago a small inter-island ship was sailing in the Islands to the East of Suva, Fiji. This ship was an old "cheapy" purchased from some European organisation, it was approximatly 90 feet in length, diesel driven with the cabins and associated infrastructure at the rear, the hold was fwd as is common with a lot of these inter-island vessels. These ships travel from island to island picking up copra and other materials and supplying drums of fuel and general cargo including odd vehicles. The crews that operate them are incredibly efficient. Passengers can travel as "deck passengers" that is virtually camping on the deck and hoping it won't rain, or "saloon passengers" that is able to travel with an undercover element. (like seats in a larger common cabin) But the heat usually means that saloon passengers spend most of their time on deck. There is normally no normal passenger cabin availability. Some food is available by arrangement, this might be curry and rice kinds of things, most people carry their own food wrapped in banana leaves kind of thing, or catch fish from time to time. Inter-island travel routine is dependent on weather, tides, loading and unloading times, difficulty getting cargo ashore or aboard, and mumerous other factors, peripheral reefs sometimes mean lightering with small boats. This means that a two hundred kilometer trip would normally be a circuitous experience with no predictable time schedule. A week or so would be an expected ETA! So we have a balmy tropican night, not much moon but the star-light allows good visibility, the ship sailing at probably ten knots, the captain in his cabin at the rear of the wheelhouse with the experienced crew controlling the ship. The "money man" (he collects cash and keeps cargo manifest information) does a quick walk-around the fwd deck, something is very odd, the ship seems low in the water, he checks the hold and notices it is substantially filled with water, he runs quickly to the captains cabin. A monstrous woman also sees the water and rapidly follows. The "moneyman" reaches the the captains cabin and yells "Captain there is water in the hold"!, at about the same time the monstrous woman reaches the cabin and begins screaming at the captain about her cargo which is getting wet, she is so busy screaming abuse that she does not realise what is happening, and there is no way she is going to let the captain out of the cabin until she has her say! The "moneyman" turns leaves the upper deck and steps off the normal deck straight into the water, the front of the ship has already disappeared, the momentum of the ship still driving what was left above water forward. The ship lasted a further short period before disappearing. Total time to sink must have been approximately two minutes. The survivors found floating debris and tried to keep afloat. No SOS message had been sent. Things were pretty grim, under normal circumstances they might stay afloat for ten hours or so, land was too far off to swim, so the sharks would probably come,it really was curtains for them. Sometime mid-morning a miracle happened when another ship appeared bearing down on them, so they were rescued. Under normal circumstances another vessel may not have been in that area for weeks, and to have passed and seen the survivors was a miracle in itself, so the rescue was incredibly lucky. There is a moral to this factual event, "stupid, screaming, abusive, women that have lost sight of the larger picture and are full of themselves are dangerous. Anyone wishing to have an experience of a lifetime, in pristine air and re-adjust to reality with minimal charge might consider passage on one of these ships. You won't get shot at or bombed, but expect basic kind of conditions. (take your own toilet paper) When the ship is loading at various places you can snorkel on the most immaculate reefs, but do be careful and don't get hurt! (there may be no assistance) Many places are island plantations and people are not welcome to land off these ships. There are reasons for this. You will also learn that time has no meaning and meet some of the most incredible people imaginable. You might even get to see Raymond Burr's Island from a distance. Nightime is amazing in these places, you will witness irridescence in the water, brightly glowing fish, other wonderful natural things, but do beware of snarly women! Have a Good hay NSCEO. Cheers, Merlin.
ARoberts - 09 Nov 2005 03:15 GMT > To NSCEO, well you really are showing your true colours! > Are you the product of an incestuous relationship or something? > If you were walking down the street and someone yelled to you that your > a.s was on fire, You would scream abuse and demand proof! Then you don't have any proof...
<long story in attempt to obscure that lack of proof snipped>
NorthShoreCEO - 09 Nov 2005 04:04 GMT >> To NSCEO, well you really are showing your true colours! >> Are you the product of an incestuous relationship or [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > <long story in attempt to obscure that lack of proof snipped> You've got that right, ARoberts!
NorthShoreCEO - 09 Nov 2005 04:04 GMT > To NSCEO, well you really are showing your true colours! > Are you the product of an incestuous relationship or something? [quoted text clipped - 175 lines] > Have a Good hay NSCEO. > Cheers, Merlin. I'm sorry I couldn't get through this pap knowing I'd get to the end only to realize you've said nothing but the usual blah blah blah blah blah..... Translation: "No, I have no proof of anything I've said here."
Bob - 09 Nov 2005 13:16 GMT >> To NSCEO, well you really are showing your true colours! >> Are you the product of an incestuous relationship or something? >> If you were walking down the street and someone yelled to you >> that your >> a.s was on fire, You would scream abuse and demand proof!
>> ... beware of snarly women!
>> Cheers, Merlin.
>I'm sorry I couldn't get through this pap knowing I'd get to the >end only to realize you've said nothing but the usual blah blah >blah blah blah..... >Translation: "No, I have no proof of anything I've said here." His pap smears are stained, undifferentiated sells...
NorthShoreCEO - 09 Nov 2005 14:49 GMT > To NSCEO, well you really are showing your true colours! What is so funny about this, is that I asked you for proof in a very nice manner, you came back and attacked ME, and when I gave it back to you, you made the statement that I'm showing my true colors. The truth is, I just mirror people. You got back exactly what you put forth.
You're like some of the other nuts who post here - you have two sets of rules - one for yourself and one for everyone else.
Merlin - 10 Nov 2005 07:06 GMT Well you bunch of ridiculous galahs are still going! For what it is worth I would not divulge any sensitive information from any of my files to any of you, I don't find any of you have any worth whatsoever. As a matter of fact you deserve each other. You might show what achievements you have made or help you have given to anyone posting on this site, apart from derision and ridicule with which you all quite obviously excel, you are a waste of time. Why don't you go for a holiday someplace and discover just how liked you are! You have all lost sight of purpose. Cheers, Merlin.
Bob - 10 Nov 2005 14:10 GMT >Well you bunch of ridiculous galahs are still going! And your cocka-poo is most certainly up to snuff!
>For what it is worth I would not divulge any sensitive information from >any of my files to any of you, I don't find any of you have any worth >whatsoever. For what it's worth, thanks.
>As a matter of fact you deserve each other. Now you've crossed over the line.
>Why don't you go for a holiday someplace and discover just how liked >you are! Ok, we're coming over to your house.
>You have all lost sight of purpose. Where?
>Cheers, Merlin. ARoberts - 10 Nov 2005 15:06 GMT > Well you bunch of ridiculous galahs are still going! > For what it is worth I would not divulge any sensitive information from > any of my files to any of you, I don't find any of you have any worth > whatsoever. Then, at this moment, you are contending that you are a practicioner of some sort who keeps files. Other times you have said that you are not. What are you pretending today? If credibility has worth, then it is you who has none.
> As a matter of fact you deserve each other. Yes, we do. And at least we will be brief about it.
> You might show what achievements you have made or help you have given > to anyone posting on this site, apart from derision and ridicule with > which you all quite obviously excel, you are a waste of time. We just asked you to do that, and you refused. Regarding help on this site: if you think that your rambling stories about your purported adventures have provided anthing other than a latter-day Baron Munchausen diversion, you're deluded. But that's redundant.
> Why don't you go for a holiday someplace and discover just how liked > you are! Ah, yes. The "ugly American" theme that recurs in your posts. I've noticed that you have become less subtle about that bigotry as your posting has continued.
> You have all lost sight of purpose. You mean your purpose: to do some story telling and bragging. We're here for asthma.
> Cheers, Merlin.> Right.
NorthShoreCEO - 10 Nov 2005 15:31 GMT > You might show what achievements you have made or help you have > given > to anyone posting on this site, apart from derision and > ridicule with > which you all quite obviously excel I've been quite polite with you, until you changed the tone of things because you felt backed into a corner when I asked you for proof of what you've been claiming. At that point, YOU began deriding and ridiculing me. You got it right back and now you're whining? How old are you, five?
, you are a waste of time.
> Why don't you go for a holiday someplace and discover just how > liked > you are! One of those "you people" remarks, eh? Talk about true colors coming out.
> You have all lost sight of purpose. > Cheers, Merlin. And you, apparently, have lost your mind.
Cheers!
00doc - 05 Nov 2005 15:27 GMT >>G'day Bob, you are getting somewhat beyond reality old chap. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > The Wizard's Way to keep Atopy at Bay > Try the Wet Tee-Shirt...and open-nip your Airways G'day Bob! Or should I say Roberino? Crickey! You are completely off the flim flam. You fail to see that I have helped millions of people already with my commonsense methods. I can't count the times I have been minding my own business a bars and just come across some sheila with small children in the exact same situation as described above. Of course, at the time I had just been in the outback having an adventure that involved a wombat, a joey, and some Indonesian Buddist monks but that is a story for later and one that I can't repeat in polite company I can tell you! But I could tell from my decades of experience and training in engineering that the problem had to do with ventilations systems. A little all too often ingmored wisdom and some knowledge that I got from a Batman comic book along with just a bit of elbow grease fixed the whole thing up. If it was not for the arrogance of doctors and the flipance of all of so called organized medicine we would have never had the whole situation int he first place. Do ya see what I am driving at now? Cheers, Merlin
ARoberts - 05 Nov 2005 15:39 GMT >>>G'day Bob, you are getting somewhat beyond reality old chap. >> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Do ya see what I am driving at now? > Cheers, Merlin I do. I do. Thank you for that folksy story. My asthma is just about cured from reading it. If you could post one about aborigines and their drinking habits, or something equally irrelevant (and hopelessly long) the treatment will be complete.
Good one, Doc.
00doc - 05 Nov 2005 15:54 GMT > I do. I do. Thank you for that folksy story. My asthma is just about > cured from reading it. If you could post one about aborigines and their > drinking habits, or something equally irrelevant (and hopelessly long) > the treatment will be complete. > > Good one, Doc. Yeah, try as I might I just couldn't get the length up to snuff. I guess I need more careful observation and practice.
 Signature 00doc
ARoberts - 05 Nov 2005 15:39 GMT >>>G'day Bob, you are getting somewhat beyond reality old chap. >> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Do ya see what I am driving at now? > Cheers, Merlin I do. I do. Thank you for that folksy story. My asthma is just about cured from reading it. If you could post one about aborigines and their drinking habits, or something equally irrelevant (and hopelessly long) the treatment will be complete.
Good one, Doc.
Merlin - 06 Nov 2005 05:57 GMT G'day Roberts, you are the only one that understands. How is it that you are so far ahead of this riff-raff intellectually! I am impressed! Cheers, Merlin.
NorthShoreCEO - 04 Nov 2005 13:30 GMT > G'day NSCEO absolutely, but the statements I am referring to > were made [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > of discreditation. The reply was in kind! > Cheers, Merlin. All of this leads to an interesting story of a person who feels he's qualified to treat others but has nothing to back it up. Based on things you've written, you've worked with thousands of people and have helped cure them. Surely someone has written about you along the way. Post some links to articles about you to prove what you say. We're on the internet, after all, and anyone can write anything, can't they? If you want to be taken seriously, I think it's time to back up what you've been posting here.
Merlin - 04 Nov 2005 03:34 GMT G'day NSCEO, firstly I must compliment your loyalty, but I would point out that 00 was "jousting" with his post knowing full well there would be a response, so your character shows as does his. You would surely be aware that American medical opinions used to be taken as being reliable, honourable and in humanities best interest, with integrity. The "smoking" fiasco and a few other minor events have made any American medical claims questionable, the breast implant situation was another lesser case. I am talking from a global perspective. Aspartame would be another odd one, research costs are beyond most organisations producing substances here and reliance was placed on American as follow-on in that they had the technical leadership. So you might imagine these kinds of things have generated a credibility circumstance where it is quite apparent that supposedly responsibile doctors are commonly "bought" with no real concern for any population or downstream implications.
For your information I have a technical engineering back-ground much of which has been assocated with airline, aircraft, airport, health, safety and security for the major part of my life. Your mention of ongoing learning and years of study are common. I was posted to various places for various periods and spent thebest part of ten years outside Australia, some places were pretty rough. This was mainly in the South-east asia, South-west pacific area. I have also undertaken short term contracts for varying reasons including aircraft recovery, parts recovery, small power generator (1000KVA) station construction and commissioning and repairs, water desalination, potable water retic, health, and numerous other associated areas. Some of this work was on volunteer basis. With regard to the airport stuff and first-aid, it was a neccessity, I would draw your attention to passengers standing in tropical situations waiting and boarding their aircraft. Collapses were common, especially with older persons. Anxiety, stress, and all the associated problems. When persons collapse onboard an aircraft it presents a massive problem, especially with the local laws of that country and the other people trying to reach their destination, not to mention that persons luggage. I have no wish to elaborate on this but this generally happens in a bonded kind of area which is a legal minefield and varies country to country. Passports are usually stamped (left the country) and if the person is deceased we are talking big bickies to forward a body!! Circumstances of death and exact place also become involved. There are numerous other considerations where minimum safety standards need to be met and this again can represent a major concern. In most places if an aircraft accident were to occur, you might consider a nearby hospital with a one person intensive care capability and a record of people dying for simple things like even an ingrown toenail operation. So this kind of thing tempers decisions on technical matters in some of these places. It was common for cowboy pilots to land in "hairy" places for the extra "buck"! especially during the Vietnam thing, sometimes mishaps happened, damaged nose gear, bent propeller, stuff like that, so these kinds of short term contracts were quite lucritive, a couple of thousand dollars for a couple of days work was pretty good at that time. But these kinds of jobs often required an extra margin of care! (camping at the site etc.) Anyone involved with airplanes would appreciate what "here now, gone tomorrow" means, and the absolute relief when you get back to normality after doing one of these type jobs. So a little partying was par for the course. There was often a presence of military people in these kinds of places, possibly from every side, so there was always an element of tension. The only on-the-spot airplane prangs that I attended were non fatal, runway overshoot or run-off, wheels not extending kind of stuff. (although I did remove components from a bad one on one occasion) the largest of these was a Panam 707. (bent it's back, no fatalities) When hurricanes happened it often involved a lot of work, my major interest in these circumstances was Water, Power and watch the crap! Thankfully they were rare and lasted only a few weeks before being restored. Water is the most important thing, no water in a town or city is disasterous. You have no idea!! During my involvement with these things I have had some incredible experiences, met some incredible people, especially the French "Medicine without Borders" medical people. (they are the absolute most incredible people I have ever met.) You would appreciate that disease and lack of water are complimentry, so repairing a water pumping system or whatever, would inevitably tie me with medical people in these places, expatriots tend to stay together. So I have worked and rubbed shoulders with some of the best, and discussed progress for a solution to the problem at that time whatever it may have been. I usually always managed to broach my pet subject with them also. LOL. Regarding the asthma interest, it has been ongoing for more than sixty years, after having problems most of my earlier life I could not believe the problem could be so easily overcome, and I could not believe that antibiotics could have such an incredibly adverse effect. So asking lots of questions to anyone with asthma became a normal routine. With young children, (as is the case on this first post) the background was usually common, the generated effect was the same, often with the child having odd high temperatures and even sometimes having fits! (coupled with the inability to breathe, real ER stuff!) When you strike these situations ask "does the problem appear more often after the child has had fast-food"! So that is often a real pointer! I must stress this whole exercise is aimed at determination of the childs real problem or the actual underlying cause. So that is really part of the reason for becoming involved in investigation in that area, the other benefit was of course my familily's. My engineers licence has lapsed due to no longer directly working in that industry but I collected a few injuries along the way and a good case of tinnitus so suits me as things are. Being retired I now have time to spend more actively with volunteer work and examining asthmatic circumstances.
Cheers Merlin.
00doc - 03 Nov 2005 20:51 GMT > G'day 00, I am old enough to have witnessed ridiculous American medical > proffessional doctors declaring on film that "Smoking does not cause > cancer"!! > So much for the proffessionals in America!! > How long ago was that, maybe fifteen as far as I can recall!! Are you really claiming that credible docs were saying that in 1990?
I think you are old enough that your recall is slipping.
As for the other stuff: When you can name a profession and nation that does not have a few bad eggs get back to us on it.
 Signature 00doc
Richard Friedel - 02 Nov 2005 11:02 GMT Dear Dr. Issh,
I just warned about the dangers of getting reflux (GERD) from asthma drugs and the rebound effect.. I did admit that most people would not say that learning to take a deep breath might be a cure for asthma. But look at the fact that Gray's Anatomy speaks of the navel zone being drawn in and drawn upward for a deep inspiration (like using the hammer in a "try your strength" feat at a fairground). This is slyly overlooked by doctors and a deep breath during spirometry is done (according at least to my standard book on physiology) with a clip on the nose and while sitting. So asthma treatment is heavily flawed to make drug treatment appear more scientific by setting a false standard. To the medical mind drawing in the belly would be "paradox", because there would seemingly be less space for inhaled air. Modern research (Dr. Gwen Skloot) infers that if an asthmatic could do a deep breath (which he/she can't) airway narrowing would be overcome. Therefore patiently attempting a deep breath, drawing in the belly as indicated, and being extremely careful to avoid triggering an attack by hyperventilation, will not only boost or supercharge the heart to pump more blood into the lungs but also, it seems, open airways. It is a question of practice makes perfect. Relying on this reasoning, trying to take a deep breathing for prolonged periods in an attack of asthma would obviously maltreat or sort of bruise the lung tissue. Such damage can be documented at a cellular level and thus make exclusively drug treatment seem the obvious approach. This training would not be relevant for toddlers. Regards, Richard Friedel
|
|
|