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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / September 2005

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Forget About Pollution.

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Merlin - 17 Sep 2005 02:47 GMT
Anyone that has spent time in various areas of South-East-Asia would be
aware of the often poor standards of health, education and generally
everything in some of these places.
Existance in squalor is bad enough for humans but the animals of these
people most especially the chickens is where the point is most easily
driven home as to how diseased animals can proliferate.
It is not difficult to understand how the various bird diseases given
the period and nature of their existance have become contageous. That
degree of propogation is still manifesting.
The current basic bird flu was first noticed in the Vietnam area and
even with reasonable culling and destruction methods still became
entrenched and moved on into the wildlife.
At this time the complete Eastern coastal areas from the most southern
areas of Indonesia to the northern areas of Russia have been
contaminated and traces have now also appeared in Europe which has
likely been carried by migratory birds of various types.
The known confirmed deaths caused to humans is currently in excess of
sixty but in reality would be considerably higher.
The most recent human death circumstance was in Indonesia yesterday
with a person that resided some distance from a chicken farm.
The incubation period and effect caused to the animals has currently
(as far as is known) precluded the disease from reaching Australia
probably due mainly to the birds dying or being too sick to fly the
distance to reach this destination.
It is going to be interesting to see what the next development is going
to be.
In view of the diversity of animals and range of affected area and
eco-systems involved, some mutation is obviously going to appear,
probably in differing multiplicity and probably simultaneously across
enormous distances.
Some countries have developed basic plans of action for worst case
scenarios, and the race is on to try to have some drug to combat it.
It could be interesting to watch the Colonels share price.
All we need now is a Pandemic flea plague from fleas that have fed on
the Beubonic mice the yanks have lost.
Probably the only good thing about all this is that our influenza
season here is almost over.
Cheers, Merlin.
mcs - 17 Sep 2005 07:24 GMT
> Anyone that has spent time in various areas of South-East-Asia would be
> aware of the often poor standards of health, education and generally
> everything in some of these places.

Yes I have been there for short periods of time and it depends  on where
your talking . Taiwan is ultra modern.Philippines is very poor , at least
Manilla is.

> Existance in squalor is bad enough for humans but the animals of these
> people most especially the chickens is where the point is most easily
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> season here is almost over.
> Cheers, Merlin.

I am sorry I responded to your first train .
Merlin - 18 Sep 2005 02:06 GMT
G'day MCS, Nice to meet you, I do aggree with your interpretation of
the pollutant menace entirely, but as you are aware the dollar is the
driving force and people are insignificant cannon fodder.
I don't believe the person in charge really has personal involvement.
I think the voter turnout in some of these affected countries at
election time represents the general common concern.
It is different here, we get fined a hundred plus dollars if we don't
vote, kind of like enforced democracy! LOL. It makes no difference.
You can observe this problem easily, even by simply walking through a
normal supermarket and observing the problem products presence.

In my asthmatic situation I regret to have to admit to cutting my
losses and getting away to places pristine. I have since been involved
in many odd vocations much of the time in areas below China through to
New Guinea, sometimes working surrounded by nasty bugs or working to
address them.

I do feel for your situation, but does the term "pissing into the wind"
have any meaning?
That is in reality what is happening.

I think this Bird flu is going to be an incredible leveller, seeing
what you have, can you imagine help for the majority of world
population with medical assistance for a three day incubated virulent
killer!

The part which concerns me most is that from my experience the persons
most likely more severely affected with any of these viral kinds of
things are those with lesser immune systems and more likely with
retained mucus. This as far as I am concerned means that asthmatic
affected kinds of persons most likely will be most affected.
Cheers, Merlin.

> > Anyone that has spent time in various areas of South-East-Asia would be
> > aware of the often poor standards of health, education and generally
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> >
> I am sorry I responded to your first train .
mcs - 18 Sep 2005 14:21 GMT
> G'day MCS, Nice to meet you,

Nice to meet you too.

I do aggree with your interpretation of
> the pollutant menace entirely, but as you are aware the dollar is the
> driving force and people are insignificant cannon fodder.

I didn't think that was so up till around five years ago but your opinion
and my opinion , about how maybe we create this circle of cause and effect
just to produce jobs or to keep rich in place would be considered extremely
conspiracy ladden to people who form their opinions based on the same major
networks exports. It could be worse I suppose. They could have killed me by
now faster.

> I don't believe the person in charge really has personal involvement.
> I think the voter turnout in some of these affected countries at
> election time represents the general common concern.
> It is different here, we get fined a hundred plus dollars if we don't
> vote, kind of like enforced democracy!

Where is there Merlin?

LOL. It makes no difference.
> You can observe this problem easily, even by simply walking through a
> normal supermarket and observing the problem products presence.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> have any meaning?
> That is in reality what is happening.

It is but so is 90percent of the talk on politics on one level or another. I
am complaining on the hope , even if its say ten percent hope. that even
this pissing as you call it can affect change. In a Tale of Two Cities, the
people in servitude ultimately had to first make their own reality just to
cope so they might take further action down the line
At the very least if I believe that there is a slim chance that democracy
still exists then put my beliefs into the mix too.
We still have freedoms and my friend is successful by advertising
consistently and cheaply although most people don't advertise like he would.
The point is any truth might eventually foster change. I know when I first
started this, gas was way cheaper and global warming was hardly talked
about. Now the alternative energy stocks I bought at lower level are
starting to rise so maybe there is some freedom but most I sold before they
rose . The important part is you try to communicate your conscience to
affect change. If I just worked on the coast of Hawaii breathing good air,
so what? Many people would ultimately get affected and my life would have no
meaning. I see how I piss cons off and others who have to gain by polluting
our air and each time I piss them off, I get a tap of my arm from the higher
power who tells me to call it like it is. Let them deal with who is right or
wrong at the end of day or life.

> I think this Bird flu is going to be an incredible leveller, seeing
> what you have, can you imagine help for the majority of world
> population with medical assistance for a three day incubated virulent
> killer!

I think it might and didn't mean to devalue what you said. It could just
well be another broken link from environmental changes that people like Bush
chose to ignore so his friends can pollute the world and kill those that are
not in synch. it doesnt even take a brain scientist to know just to do the
right thing. When studies say things are happening , you do more to remedy
the situation. But not Bush and not many leaders by the way.

> The part which concerns me most is that from my experience the persons
> most likely more severely affected with any of these viral kinds of
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> I didn't mean to be fecious, but I am so use that on message boards.
>> Steve
Merlin - 19 Sep 2005 00:54 GMT
G'day Steve, I am currently permanent resident in Australia and
originally came from here, asthma is rampant here and has been an
incredible hobby for me.
As you have experienced with your travels, wherever you go pollutant
kinds of circumstances are virtually unavoidable wherever major
civilisation circles exist.
My current location is such that even lighting a fire in your backyard
is liable to a fine, so things are being geared toward anti-pollution
to a fair degree, if your vehicle has a smoky exhaust you will be put
off the road and fined, if you spin your wheels and make smoke you are
also liable.
One town here has even banned cigarette smoking completely within it's
city limits, most other places have really victimised smokers almost to
obscurity.
As smoking was banned here progressively in buildings, smokers tended
to congregate outside the doorways of buildings, now it is law that no
one smokes within ten metres of any public doorway, so things are on
the move at last, at least in that area. (and this is actually
enforced)
In that I have been involved trying to analyse how and what asthmatics
have been affected by within their homes for over thirty years as an
all consuming hobby wherever I have visited, it becomes interesting in
relation to your views on pollution, typically  many sufferers are not
so much affected by the outside air as they are by the interior of
their homes the furnishings and the chemicals they use which are
usually most responsible for their problems.
Conversely Singapore at certain times of the year becomes really bad
with blanketed smog, it is a "get-out" kind of city, you get there then
you get smartly out. Of course this is dependent on the time of year
the winds and the fires in Indonesia.
As you would be aware, once you understand more about how disasterous
this rotten asthmatic problem is, the more concerned you become for
action in some way, mine is with what I do, but I have had many friends
with similar outlook to yours where they were going to stand fast and
act alone.
This I would compare to someone walking in front of an enemy tank which
was supported by infantry.
Heroes maybe, but not very sensible, so I do strongly suggest anyone in
this predicament get out it. In my experience over the years those
kinds of die-hards did learn that human life is only a flash in the
scheme of things and the best way to enjoy it is to avoid pit-falls
using applied intelligence, the thing often forgotten is that genetic
makeup is affected downstream, so staying in a problem area may have
further effect in later generations. I do feel it is a responsible
action to get your off-spring away from problem possibilities.
Believe me I know exactly where you are coming from but it certainly
makes a different discussion item when outlooks are compared.

Cheers, Merlin.
mcs - 19 Sep 2005 16:03 GMT
You know Merlin, its very interesting that Australia has this problem,
considering all the evidence i see suggests the more concentrated the people
and the more landlocked, the more asthma and pollution problems. The regions
in the states that have the fewest asthma are towns that usually have less
then a million and are not too near other towns with same population,
congestion, cars etc. With Australia, oddly enough, you dont' have
landlocked towns as often and the populations are not that highly
concentrated, yet you have allot of asthma? Question, do you have allot of
asthma in big cities only? So its weird as I check out the correlations
around the world, Australia actually bucks that trend, and not sure why.

> G'day Steve, I am currently permanent resident in Australia and
> originally came from here, asthma is rampant here and has been an
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> Cheers, Merlin.
Merlin - 20 Sep 2005 11:44 GMT
G'day  Steve, your observations are correct, where it becomes more
interesting  is learning that New Zealand was the worst for asthmatic
problems and Australia was close second.  The US and other places are
playing catchup and probably are about there now.
There are some most interesting possibiliies why pristine kinds of
places with virtually no pollution might have such incredibly high
instances of asthmatic problem.
One is considered to be eucalypts, generally, the high inciddence of
these kinds of plants and the aromatics produced by them.
A second is the consumption of cattle products, especially milk and
other similar products.
So just these two items are probably the greatest cause as apart from
the lesser things like petroleum and chemical substances.
It was interesting to learn that much of the eucalypts that occurred
especially in the areas east of LAX and those general areas apparently
were transported from Australia as fast growing timber in the early
days.
One doctor was also supposed to observe this happen and make notes but
the eucalyptus became generally used as a disinfectant and the
clustering disappeared.
I have come across this problem repeatedly where eucalyptus is treated
as an assistive product by unknowing persons. This is common with
school cleaning ladies and people like that.
It is interesting stuff to follow, the inciddence of asthmatics on
farms where heavy dependence on cattle was involved also was
interesting to observe, this really became interesting when I met a
Russian doctor that was also involved in asthma and also was located in
a heavy dependent cattle area.
Of course this is just the tip of the iceberg, there are so many other
causitive substances, many in multiplicity.
It commonly happens where you locate a problem by experience that
persons were not aware of how their problem was being maintained.
That is what I find so incredibly interesting.
Cheers, Merlin.
 
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