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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / September 2005How emotions spark asthma attack
"How emotions spark asthma attack", BBC News, August 30, 2005, Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4196478.stm US scientists say they have hard evidence to show that certain emotions can cause flare ups of asthma. The University of Wisconsin-Madison team discovered activity in brain areas linking the two in asthmatics who read emotive words. One brain region has a role in obtaining information about disease symptoms while another processes emotions. Their findings appear in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Dr Richard Davidson and his team asked six patients with mild asthma to take part in their experiments. Each was shown three different categories of words - asthma-related words such as "wheeze", negative but non-asthma-related words such as "loneliness" and neutral words such as "curtains". At the same time, the volunteers were given known triggers of asthma to inhale, such as ragweed or dust-mite extract. Emotional element Meanwhile, their brain responses were monitored using functional magnetic resonance imaging. Two brain regions - the anterior cingulate cortex and the insula - showed increased activity when the asthma-related words were heard compared with the other word types. Furthermore, the increased brain activity was linked to body function signals from the inhaled allergens. The researchers said that because of the small number of people studied their findings would need to be repeated and that it was likely that other brain areas are also involved in the relationship between emotions and asthma. However, they said: "These brain areas may be hyperresponsive to disease-specific emotions." In turn, this might contribute to problems that worsen asthma, such as inflammation, they said. Chairman of the British Lung Foundation Dr Mark Britton said: "These are interesting findings. "We have always known that asthma and a patient's personality and emotions are very intrinsically bound up with each other. "We do need further research into this." For example, whether increasing the dose of medication might help to cover tough emotional times. He said it was often useful to counsel a patient that their asthma may get worse when they are stressed. "If you have insight into your disease you are much better able to cope with it." Dr Lyn Smurthwaite of Asthma UK said: "It's well known that stress aggravates asthma and that asthma aggravates stress. "Our research shows that 69% of people with asthma say stress triggers their symptoms, and this study shows an actual link between the parts of the brain processing emotion and physiological asthma symptoms." That's me: stress and/or exercise do it. I always think "Well DUH" when I read the "findings" of these empirical surveyers with their grants. I suppose it's good someone documents and attempts to measure what so many of us know to be true.---Jack while there probably is some truth in this, because everything is connected, the sad truth which I am totally convinced of , is some people wouldn't have any of this , highly emotional or not if they were not in contact with so much pollution. I think I can easily prove the correlation of health and asthma ( adult onset sufferers) and air quality which to me is most important since without the bad air we would not have the progressive lung degeneration to begin with without have scientists search why people do once they have it or how they can treat it AFTER THE FACT. > "How emotions spark asthma attack", BBC News, August 30, 2005, > Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4196478.stm [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > their symptoms, and this study shows an actual link between the parts > of the brain processing emotion and physiological asthma symptoms." > while there probably is some truth in this, because everything is > connected, the sad truth which I am totally convinced of , is some people [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the progressive lung degeneration to begin with without havinf scientists > search what people need to do after the fact. sorry for typos > while there probably is some truth in this, because everything > is connected, the sad truth which I am totally convinced of , [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > scientists search why people do once they have it or how they > can treat it AFTER THE FACT. Good! Please post links to all of the studies you have that prove this. >> while there probably is some truth in this, because everything is >> connected, the sad truth which I am totally convinced of , is some people [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > the rich get elected to most important offices in US.but if no one has any > motivation to tell us it don't matter. Sure people are born with asthma, but the people who do best with adult asthma who developed it , do best with clean air.If not there would be no desire to have cleaner alternatives. >>> while there probably is some truth in this, because >>> everything is connected, the sad truth which I am totally [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > with adult asthma who developed it , do best with clean air.If > not there would be no desire to have cleaner alternatives. Post links to the studies saying that if pollution wasn't a problem, asthma wouldn't exist. That's what you're stating in your original post, and every time the asthma discussion involves bacteria or anything else, you say you don't buy it. So please provide studies backing up everything you've been posting. > >>> while there probably is some truth in this, because > >>> everything is connected, the sad truth which I am totally [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >> Good! Please post links to all of the studies you have that > >> prove this. > >> I have posted the links over and over again. Lets see if I can > >> remember just some of them. Do a look up in either rent.com or [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > else, you say you don't buy it. So please provide studies > backing up everything you've been posting. I haven't seen any links to controlled clinical studies by this poster--just some tenuous statistical correlations that he has drawn. Perhaps I missed them, and would appreciate seeing a repost of those. MCS, rent.com and local pharamacists do not constitute a clinical study, just anecdotal musings. BTW, it would be much easier to believe that your agenda isn't to a large extent political if you were not an avid contributor to the alt.impeach.bush group, and making rabid statments about his "poisoning our children." > >>> while there probably is some truth in this, because > >>> everything is connected, the sad truth which I am totally [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >> Good! Please post links to all of the studies you have that > >> prove this. > >> I have posted the links over and over again. Lets see if I can > >> remember just some of them. Do a look up in either rent.com or [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > else, you say you don't buy it. So please provide studies > backing up everything you've been posting. I haven't seen any links to controlled clinical studies by this poster--just some tenuous statistical correlations that he has drawn. Perhaps I missed them, and would appreciate seeing a repost of those. MCS, rent.com and local pharamacists do not constitute a clinical study, just anecdotal musings. BTW, it would be much easier to believe that your agenda isn't to a large extent political if you were not an avid contributor to the alt.impeach.bush group, and making rabid statments about his "poisoning our children." Pollution did not seem to be a factor in my my breathing back in the nineteen eighties when I was operating a pushcart on the NE corner of Madison Avenue and Fifty-third Street. You better believe there was lots of pollution . In those days the grime and exhaust just didn' seem to be getting to me. (Stupid-stupid) It was. as ever before since childhood, stress and exercise that was kicking in asthma symptoms. In recent years since, polution, in the form of new building materials, on one occasion, when I walked into the basement of the new building for my little local bank, the place where the safe (deposit) boxes are---I immediately, upon leaving the elevator, suffered an attack, the suddeness and intensity of which I had never known before. I was lucky to get out of there. Never did get to my box that day. Yet when I returned there a few weeks later (and with my doctor friend) there was no problem. Whatever noxious substances that had triggered the previous unpleasantness must have been vacuumed away prior to my return. Another significant episode was my recently spending an hour and a half shopping with a friend in Ikea (which is a purveyor of new Sweedish housewares). My friend had to cart me out of the store on a flat-bed wheelie. I was ok as soon as I got outside to the relatively fresh air. But prior to these recent instances it's always been exercise and stress that have brought on my asthma symptoms. Should I post references? No. This is not theory. It's my personal experience. Jack > Pollution did not seem to be a factor in my my breathing back in the > nineteen eighties when I was operating a pushcart on the NE corner of [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] >to exercise because of pollution levels. No studies on bacteria or emotions >is going to change that. >>>> while there probably is some truth in this, because everything is >>>> connected, the sad truth which I am totally convinced of , is some [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > survive long time is to leave their polluted area. You don't want to > believe, you think its emotional or bacteria lol knock yourself out. ok? >>>>> while there probably is some truth in this, because everything is >>>>> connected, the sad truth which I am totally convinced of , is some [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] >> say you don't buy it. So please provide studies backing up everything >> you've been posting. > I don't have to back up anything . More and more people are being informed > about the benefits of clean air. You're right, you don't have to back up anything. Nor be believed. Plonk. >> I don't have to back up anything . More and more people are >> being informed about the benefits of clean air. When the air [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> believe, you think its emotional or bacteria lol knock >> yourself out. ok? What a fraud. You live in this fairytale world where all your ills are due to pollution, and in every post you respond to here, you're banging the same drum, but you don't feel you need to back up what you say with legitimate medical studies? I think your problem is hot air. It's obvious you're not only NOT a scientist, but you give little credence to anything scientific. You also think one size fits all. If pollution makes your asthma worse, it must be the same for everyone. I never claimed that everyone's asthma was caused by bacteria, but if you have it, it can be cured. Not only that, but everything else exacerbates it - chemicals, pollution, viral infections, etc. If you don't "buy" the bacteria/asthma link, that's fine, but which one of us still has asthma, and which one of us doesn't? >> I don't have to back up anything . No - if you refuse to back up your statements it is not like anyone will come to your door and put you in time out or garnish your wages or ban you from the group - so you are right that you don't HAVE to do anything. However, I assume that at least part of the reason you keep repeatng this stuff over and over again is because you are hoping to convince some people that it is true. If you want that to happen then it would be much better for your cause if you provide some evidence. The fact that you have been asked for it and have flatly refused to give it really hurts your credibility since I think pretty much everyone realises that if you had it you would post it. >> More and more people are being informed about the benefits of clean air. I don't think anyone here doubts that pollution affects asthma and that there are benefits to clean air (including NSCEO and GWB). I think what people here are objecting to is your insistance that this is the beginning, middle, and end of the sotry. Pollution is just one factor of many. >> One thing you got to understand, I am not a scientist, and I can only >> tell you what I have seen and experienced. Fine - but most people when faced with the fact that they lack the training, experience, and knowledge necessary to critically evalutate the available evidence would find that to be a reason to exersize more caution in expressing their opinions. It certainly is not a factor that lends credibility to your arguments. I will give you this, at least you are not making an obviously false claim to having extensively reviewed (and understood) the literature. At least we know that, if nothing else, you are sincere. >> You don't want to believe, you think its emotional or bacteria lol knock >> yourself out. ok? I think she does believe - as far as it goes. Same for bacteria - I think she believes that for some BUT NOT ALL asthmatics it is part or all of the answer. She also correctly believes that for some but not all it is allergies, polyps, sinus problems, genetics, etc etc. For some it is a combination of things. One more thing that I have been dying to say for quite a while and this seems like as good a place as any: There are plenty of jobs out there that do not involve manual labor or being outdoors that pay more than $14,000 per year and do not require any special skills or education. Besides that there is also nothing stopping you from aquiring some skills (not necessarily a degree) to earn even more. Stop using this as an excuse for not taking more charge of your own life (and health).  Signature00doc >>> I don't have to back up anything . > > No - if you refuse to back up your statements it is not like anyone will > come to your door and put you in time out or garnish your wages or ban you > from the group - so you are right that you don't HAVE to do anything. and you don't have to look up any links either. I posted the links many times.Since you know I repeat this but don't care to acknowledge the links shows you are incapable of understanding or your in with Bush addicts Some of the links get off over time. Your assumption that its up to me to prove or keep proving the links are still there if you don't want to look them up yourself, is not cognitive. Might I suggest if your really interested in proof , the way people modify behavior is one way . Try calling the pharamcy department in a few cities like in Hawaii and then in say Philadelphia and ask what percentage of people who utilize prescription drugs, take asthma meds ok? Lets see if your interested what you come up with ok? I feel I got a long wait . What you won't? Or you expect me to lead you by the hand? Here is one and I didn't even have to look so hard. http://www.rense.com/politics4/air.htm. > However, I assume that at least part of the reason you keep repeatng this > stuff over and over again is because you are hoping to convince some > people that it is true. actually convincing people of truth in the US is not very productive or lucrative If you want that to happen then it would be much better for > your cause if you provide some evidence. oh I think I have since you know I post about this allot. It does take someone to want to have to look also. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/10/001022202125.htm I can in fact spend all day posting links but it takes someone who wants to know to really care to know the truth. What's most interesting about that whole post is noting the parts to which you didn't respond. I told you that no one doubts that pollution affects asthma. So posting a link that says so does not add anything. We question your claims about how much asthma would disappear if not for government conspiracies to keep our cities polluted and the citizens ill informed. You have yet to provide a link to answer those questions. I and everyone else here knows that a lot of the population has asthma and that the incidence is growing. If I decide there is need to prove that I can come up with much better stats than an informal poll of local pharmacies. I suppose I should be thankful that you didn't repeat your normal exuses not to behave like a normal adult and move out of the house. Signature00doc > What's most interesting about that whole post is noting the parts to which > you didn't respond. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I suppose I should be thankful that you didn't repeat your normal exuses > not to behave like a normal adult and move out of the house. So the idea that I didnt' post links is now void? lol Now its about me and you not able to ignore my posts. Then the same twenty people out of what ten million say they will put me on what hold or killfire but manage to not do it. You know why? You can't ignore the obvious. I happen to ignore thousands of posts each day why is it you can't ignore mine? LOL govt conspiracies? Now why would that happen? lol Posting links? There are thousands of them, try to worry about them instead of me , you think? lol After all you are in asthma group. The sad fact is there are direct correlations and yes probably conspiracies like Bush signed a law where you couldn't sue the polluters even if you could prove they affected your asthma. So its now my responsibility to live in poverty because Bush makes it easier to pollute. Bush could have mandated more immediate changes . In fact until the last year or so he kept repeating the line of no global warming instead, while US was made even more dependent on polluted sources. In the last ten years asthma in kids has jumped to 16 percent. Wait alert its my fault. Now get this last fact Doc? Whether it is a conspiracy or not a conspiracy people should know where they live and what they expect from their elected officers can have an effect on their asthma probably more so then a bacteria or emotional stress studies after the fact people are poisoned. > So the idea that I didnt' post links is now void? No, it is just that you have a tendancy to make wild claims and then when questioned either refuse to post links or to post links that prove points not in contention. > lol Now its about me and you not able to ignore my posts. Oh, trust me, I am capable of ignoring your posts. It is what I generally do and probably will return to doing shortly. > Then the same twenty people out of what ten million say they will put me > on what hold or killfire but manage to not do it. I've never threatened to put you in my killfile. Although you are tempting me. > The sad fact is there are direct correlations and yes probably > conspiracies like Bush signed a law where you couldn't sue the polluters > even if you could prove they affected your asthma. See - this is a good example of what I have been talking about. You start with obviously true statements that no one would refute. Everyone knows that pollution is bad for asthma and that GWB is no friend of the environment (whether he should be is another argument that I am not going to have here). There really is no need for you to post a link proving that unless someone actually challenges you on the topic. However, in the course of your usual ranting you would go on to claim that the pollution is the sole cause for all asthma, that there is some kind of government conspiracy to keep the pollution rates high and all asthmatics wheezing, and that things are markedly different under GWB than they have been under other recent administrations. When pressed on these specific aspects of your diatribes your usual tactic is to call names, refuse to post links, and when presse finally post links to only prove obvious points that are not incontention (like the ones in the paragraph above) and then claim that there are thousands more like them. > So its now my responsibility to live in poverty because Bush makes it > easier to pollute. Ummmm.....no. The two have nothing to do with each other. You live in poverty because you chose to do so. Even if there is a valid reason for you not to find a job that pays more than the minimum wage I doubt the fault lies with Bush. Personally, I hate the guy and would love to blame him for every evil that I can. But even being as sympathetic toward bashing him as I am I have a hard time hanging this one around his neck. Actually, when you consider that you are living at home with free rent (and probably food and many other incidentals) $14,000 per year of completely disposable income is not all that bad. I suspect that a guy making $30,000 with a wife, kids, and his own house does not have that much cash available to spend. You obviously have a basic education sufficent to take some night classes (or day classes if you work at night) and learn some skills that will allow you to work in a setting you can tolerate and at a substantially higher grade of pay. You've got the time, you've got the education, and you have the cash for tuition - so what is stopping you? I doubt your asthma is so severe that it precludes sitting in an airconditioned room reading a book. Get off your a.s and do something to improve your lot. Hell, you don't even have to get off your a.s because there are now online courses you could take. Or is it just that it is easier to sit around in mom and dad's house spending 40 hours per week at a minimum wage job (it couldn't be more or you would make more than $14K - leaving about 70 hours per week for leisure activities) whining about how the government is keeping you down. It's a pathetic excuse that no one is buying. > Bush could have mandated more immediate changes . In fact until the last > year or so he kept repeating the line of no global warming instead, while > US was made even more dependent on polluted sources. In the last ten years > asthma in kids has jumped to 16 percent. Wait alert its my fault. Now get > this last fact Doc? True, Bush could do more for the environment (and, personally, I agree that he should). It is also true that the incidence of asthma is alarmingly high and growing higher. However, it is hard to blame rising pollution on this because in most urban areas the air is actually getting cleaner. It certainly does not account for a 16% rise in asthma. There are many more plausible explanations for the rise than increasing pollution. Ironically, one of the leading theories is the "hygiene hypothesis" which states that people are getting more atopic disease because their environments have grown too clean! > Whether it is a conspiracy or not a conspiracy people should know where > they live and what they expect from their elected officers can have an > effect on their asthma probably more so then a bacteria or emotional > stress studies after the fact people are poisoned. Ah - there we go. I knew eventually you would forget yourself and put your foot back in your mouth. Can you prove that pullution is a bigger cause for the rise in asthma or rates of asthma in general then bacteria, stress, or any other factor for that matter? [Note: I concede that pollution triggers asthma - no need for a reference to that. Try answering the specific question.] Signature00doc >> So the idea that I didnt' post links is now void? > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I've never threatened to put you in my killfile. Although you are tempting > me. Oh please no not you too. >> The sad fact is there are direct correlations and yes probably >> conspiracies like Bush signed a law where you couldn't sue the polluters >> even if you could prove they affected your asthma. > > See - this is a good example of what I have been talking about. You start > with obviously true statements that no one would refute. Wrong, the contention from the same twenty was that if I complain when in fact things are better then twenty years ago should be all one needs to know. I never bought that pack of contentment thankyou but you think some of my rantings are true... Man thank the lord on this right? Who are you? Everyone knows that > pollution is bad for asthma and that GWB is no friend of the environment > (whether he should be is another argument that I am not going to have > here). Everyone? WRONGO DOC. Half the people in US don't have to worry about F rated air and because this might not affect them , they don't give a sh.. about Bush's stand on the environment. In fact its easy to assume Bush's positions often enough if you live in oil producing or coal producing state. > There really is no need for you to post a link proving that unless someone > actually challenges you on the topic. > > However, in the course of your usual ranting you would go on to claim that > the pollution is the sole cause for all asthma, Doc? You really are a doctor? I said I think its a good cause for onset adult asthma. Since you know I rant allot lets see the posts that said I said pollution was the cause of all asthma? I simply have rarely if at all said that Doc. Get your facts straight. (oh so you searching thru my posts now and will come up with the times I implied that?) Most of the time I never said that even if I think living in non polluted areas would strongly have such a positive effect on many adult onset asthmatic sufferers ,and probably most other types of asthma also , which are dispositioned to be senstive to particulates and dust and ozone etc from air pollution thats its probably the single best thing they can possibly ever do for themselves besides medication. Now if that were true does it make sense to rant? Does it make sense if my God says lots of people still don't know this? Does it matter if you take from what Isay lies? It must mean at least you can't see the bigger picture ? Me trying to help people.. that there is some kind of > government conspiracy to keep the pollution rates high and all asthmatics > wheezing, and that things are markedly different under GWB than they have > been under other recent administrations. Ok for this I do imply, I admit and have in the past but that others have not done a good job with the environment wither . Who knows if this hasn't contributed to their own undoing and aging also? But why worry about that, the more important part is more needs to be done , not if I single out one President more then another. GWB just happens to be the guy who gutted rules to help control pollution levels . Anyone who does that , in my eyes shows a desire to poison Americans . Sue me but there are a string of things this guy knows about and doesn't care anyway. GWB knows darn well the effect of pollution and smoke since he wants out of smoke filled rooms as in press conferences. he leaves Washington all the time in Warning level air. He seldom bikes in polluted cities in midday ? So to me that makes him even more responsible for he feels no remorse for those who can't do what he can do to escape pollution, so yes I think he deserves a special category. This has been one of the areas I hated most about GWB from the start. When pressed on these specific > aspects of your diatribes your usual tactic is to call names, refuse to > post links, and when presse finally post links to only prove obvious > points that are not incontention (like the ones in the paragraph above) > and then claim that there are thousands more like them. its not my job to post links all the time. Look up all my posts and you will see many more links. Which links don't impress you? I am not responsible to post results of studies that are not made. All this can be proved by comparing the ratio of those who take asthma meds by city and state and comparing that to pollution levels? Ok simple enough doc? Have you done that? I suppose I am responsible to do that too? Since I can't , I can only show the links that to me lead one to assume the pollution adult onset asthma correlations. I don't see anyone getting any better from pollution do you? You just don't like the fact that sometimes you have to do the work to make conclusions based on the evidence at hand. >> So its now my responsibility to live in poverty because Bush makes it >> easier to pollute. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > toward bashing him as I am I have a hard time hanging this one around his > neck. Here again your worrying about this more then the possiblity of people not being informed of the benefits of clean air for asthma.You just can't stand that I might possibly be right. I don't blame Bush for my poverty by the way even if you think I did. . The reality is because of my personal situation I am pretty much dependent on staying here. If it gets to point that my health needs overcome those factors I intend to take more action.I blame bush for stopping the pollution controls and not mandating more rules before 2020 and not having more alternative energy policies in place before now which helps make my city F rated by American Lung Association. He cannot stop me from leaving . You want me to say that right? > Actually, when you consider that you are living at home with free rent > (and probably food and many other incidentals) $14,000 per year of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and learn some skills that will allow you to work in a setting you can > tolerate and at a substantially higher grade of pay. Its all connected, and I have gotten past allot of stuff but thats one reason you like to read the posts, a little bit of reality tha most people can't share . I think in right environment and undestanding and support all people can do better. . Realize though what you described above is not the full extent of situation. but you would like to think it is right? > You've got the time, you've got the education, and you have the cash for > tuition - so what is stopping you? I doubt your asthma is so severe that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Or is it just that it is easier to sit around in mom and dad's house > spending 40 hours per > week at a minimum wage job (it couldn't be more or you would make more > than $14K - leaving about 70 hours per week for leisure activities) > whining about how the government is keeping you down. again when all the former things don't work for you , then get back to my personal situation. For someone who almost put me in killffile you sure seem to be more interested in just putting me down. There are millions in jail and tens of million who don't make fivethousand in ten years around the world and millions addicted to drugs and tens of millions addicted to alcohol and tens of million without a home so life is tradeoffs. That doesn't mean I don't try think of doing better. . Everything is connected and yes I might do much better without so much pollution and might be able to do more but then again I might not. Everyone does if they choose , to do the best they can. I come from an environment where most of people I knew were ill so just getting pst that might be a success for some. Some people never make it. To compare lifes success to money one makes is really not seeing the whole picture.Why can't people expect government to provide the necessities to survive in good health? > It's a pathetic excuse that no one is buyi Well Doc, your a pathetic person who judges people by their inability to pay for their own poisoning . You not as concerned to the people who live in f rated air. You don't want to rant about whatever you dont like in Bush but you do like to respond to people who are dependent on his policies for not accepting it gracefully? If your assumption is Bush is horrible but people are responsible for providing studies you think would necessitate change faster and for them to be able to escape those policies also then obviously your rationalization skills leaves allot to be desired not to mention your ability to be humane I would be interested in knwing who you feel compassionate about who are affected by Bushs policies who you say you hate so much?/// I can go on and on but time is up Doc, and get this we don't have to pay you more money then most Docs make in the world either. How unfair of me right? >>>> I don't have to back up anything . >> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > I can in fact spend all day posting links but it takes someone > who wants to know to really care to know the truth. You really miss the point. You INSIST that asthma is caused by pollution, and if pollution is eradicated, asthma will be greatly reduced. Post medical evidence proving this fact. To date, all you've posted are links to articles and studies showing that pollution is harmful. We already know this, but it's not even been proven that pollution causes asthma, as far as I know, just that it can make it worse. Since you keep stating otherwise, sorry, but yes, the burden of proof lies in your hands. The joke of it is, my health condition was so bad, that it wouldn't be unheard of that your asthma has been made much worse by bacteria that lingers in your lungs - but you're so blind to any other theory but your own, that you'll never even look at medical research that proves it. >>>>> I don't have to back up anything . >>> [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] >effect on better health then (And get this) WHAT TO DO ABOUT then worrying >about how often I post or if bacteria means as much as you think it does. / >>I know that tens of thousands of people including me , my >>brother and girlfriend have asthma. No news flash here. >>Many do much better healthwise in clean air. Yes, as we've all stated before, air pollution can exacerbate breathing conditions. So can a number of other factors. >>Whether its a cure or not is not as important as it stops >>getting progressively worse in air conditiob=ns that most >>would describe as moderate level pollution. For YOU, air conditioning helps. There are millions of asthmatics that don't seem affected by pollution and practically live outdoors in nice weather - even in cities. And if it's not important that pollution control is a cure, then stop making it sound like it is in every post. >>If we had these facts years earlier perhaps we would not have >>asthma at all. Oh, so you're back to stating that asthma is caused by pollution, which is a lie. As Doc has stated, pollution can trigger asthma, but there's no studies I'm aware of that say pollution causes it. If bacteria causes asthma the air pollution >>shouldn't make it better or worse to the extent where people >>need emergency help or not . Really? What exactly do you know about bacteria causing asthma that makes you say this? What exactly do you know about the link between asthma and bacteria PERIOD???? I have yet to see any medical proof that shows where this >>bacteria comes from That's because you refuse to read the medical studies several of us have linked here over the past two to three years. Educate yourself by reading them - many MANY studies exist backing this, whether you buy it or not. and if the assumption is that bacteria causes this or >>helps it, why is there much less asthma in clean air states.? Maybe the population in those states is so much less because the population is less and maybe the bacteria isn't as communicable as it is in cities where people breathe down one another's necks. Who knows? I don't know. And you don't either. or much more >>lung damage in polluted areas? Assume bacteria does have some >>affect, if pollution is the one mitgating factor that makes it >>much worse or better There you go ASSuming again. >>then obviously worrying about the policitcal agenda to change >>our air quality might be more impotant than worrying about >>bacteria. Well, in my life, three people I'm near and dear to, including myself, have had their asthma eradicated with the use of antibiotics, because it was caused by bacteria. How many asthmatics do you know that moved into a clean air state and stopped taking all of their asthma medication? ASSUMe before >>you tell me to prove it. The onus is with you to prove it. You may not like that. I may make you feel some kind of rage, but that's the truth. You make outlandish statements, you better be willing and able to back them up. So far, you're all talk. you try to look it up yourself. Assume hawaii is >>clean air state and Camden NJ is a bad air city. One way to >>prove this is not a bacteria condition is to get the ratio of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>this) WHAT TO DO ABOUT then worrying about how often I post or >>if bacteria means as much as you think it does. / Boy are you ever flawed with your thinking. It sounds like you may have other issues, far worse than asthma. Oh, and did you have asthma before the Bush administration or were you asthma free under Clinton? >>>I know that tens of thousands of people including me , my brother and >>>girlfriend have asthma. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > For YOU, air conditioning helps I meant to write air conditions not air conditioning. typo . There are millions of > asthmatics that don't seem affected by pollution and practically live > outdoors in nice weather - even in cities. And if it's not important that > pollution control is a cure, then stop making it sound like it is in every > post. I have rarely used the word cure in all my rantings. I would suggest for you to do research before you suggest that millions of asthmatics are not affected working outdoors in polluted cities. If true, ( and realize I have strong doubts ) its because they live constantly medicated ? Do you know how many of these people would or wouldn't need the same medication in cleaner environment.? If millions are dying premature because of air pollution and I realize many people are living longer also, then how do you know what affect pollution has on these people? Unless comparitive studies were done like in life expectancy, and frequency of needing emergency help and medication There are ways of course to determine all this but the studies are not done because who would benefit? Drug companies? Afraid not. >>>If we had these facts years earlier perhaps we would not have asthma at >>>all. > > Oh, so you're back to stating that asthma is caused by pollution, Some onset adult , in fact I think Most adult onset asthma is of course due only to pollution. or the environment Can you show me where it says what causes asthma matter of factly? I can understand why they would not come out with reasons , or show comparatively data. If more people are treated on a percenatage basis for onset adult asthma in polluted cities then non polluted cities, we can at least say pollution is the major mitigating factor in adult onset asthma. and then who cares about sematics? If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck its a duck. You guys ( probably with drug company execu and oil and republicans) would love to see the status quo and people stay sick without worrying in the same degreee if clean air can possibly cure or almost cure adult onset asthma. My assumption is it might . My assumption is if it can't it would increase their life expectancy. > which is a lie. As Doc has stated, pollution can trigger asthma, but > there's no studies I'm aware of that say pollution causes it. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Really? What exactly do you know about bacteria causing asthma that makes > you say this? Umm truly I know clean air helps onset adult asthmatic sufferers so if you can show me where tens of thousands of people go to escape bacteria I might listen. What exactly do you know about the link > between asthma and bacteria PERIOD???? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > linked here over the past two to three years. Educate yourself by reading > them - many MANY studies exist backing this, whether you buy it or not. I do not buy it correct unless you can show the percentage of people with asthma who are affected because of bacteria and treatement. I think you can compare on the other hand the percentange of people via ratios who live in clean air cities to those who don;t and come up with a much better way to show cause and affect . I think its easier now if one wanted to, to get faster relief ( I don't even follow my own advice admittedly) by just following the trail to cleaner air. I have my major doubts that can be said for those who take anti bacteria whatever. Frankly I will keep an open mind but from what I know now, I think the clean air option is the best thing anyone with asthma cando. So much so I think people need to get together to help make it happen to better peoples lives. I hope to God I am right and think I am. > and if the assumption is that bacteria causes this or >>>helps it, why is there much less asthma in clean air states.? [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > other issues, far worse than asthma. Oh, and did you have asthma before > the Bush administration or were you asthma free under Clinton? > Most adult onset asthma is of course due only to pollution. or the > environment Cite please. Signature00doc >> Most adult onset asthma is of course due only to pollution. or the >> environment > > Cite please. that should be asthma doctor told me, about onset adult asthma. I honestly don't know about bacteria , but I can know about the differences in clean air cities and non clean air cities. I think the exact same implications can be made based on occupation. Show me someone who repairs diesel trucks and buses all day compared to someone who,,, say farms in Washington state away from big cities. Not only is my contention the number of asthma cases would side with the guy fixing buses but I bet my bottom dollar the farmer in Washington lives longer. Assuming they ate the same stuff and exercised the same amount of time. .. I think this is the biggest secret that many people know about but press and scientists don't want to tell you about. Now why? As for conspiracies. lol I can think of good reasons why conspiracies take place? Maybe they want to poison inner city people. Maybe they want to keep profits high for energy companies . ( hmmm oh thats already happening) so if tv does well by promoting asthma meds why rock the boat. I am matter of factly telling people that most asthma can significantly improve if they lived in clean air assuming they don't live in clean air now I say that knowingly I can't even do what I recommend.sadly. I assume my god will somehow give me kudos one day cause I tried to help people. At the very least try to get the facts that will show the benefits of clean air for yourself. >> Most adult onset asthma is of course due only to pollution. or the >> environment > > Cite please. > that should be asthma doctor told me, about onset adult asthma. > I honestly don't know about bacteria , but I can know about the [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> >> Cite please. By cite, Doc is asking you to post a link to the study that states this. Here are studies that indicate there IS a link between asthma - particularly adult onset asthma - and mycoplasma or chlamydia pneumoniae: http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/266/2/225 http://www.chestjournal.org/cgi/content/full/121/6/1782 http://pslgroup.com/dg/2db82.htm A number of studies here: http://www.asthmastory.com/researchall.asp You're not helping people by banging the same drum about pollution all the time. Even if people move from one area to another and see an improvement of their asthma, it could be due to less airborne allergens. So far, you've posted nothing to prove that asthma is caused by pollution, which is what you continue to say....over and over and over and over and over......... Some C pneumoniae antibody titers, although not diagnostic of chlamydial infection by present criteria, probably represent acute reinfection or ongoing chronic infection. Repeated or prolonged exposure to C pneumoniae may have a causal association with wheezing, asthmatic bronchitis, and asthma. that doesn't say much to me. I also could not understand why if this so that more people have asthma in polluted areas every time . Not once in a while almost all the time. If you take the number of people who suffer from adult onset asthma and compare their evironmental connection to those that don't have asthma or those that do and live in clean air states, you would see a more direct association then these studies. One study suggested half were cured. I assume then they would be cured in Camden as well as in Alaska.I also would assume 1/2cured and further studies somehow don't make sense. I think most studies with that good reaction would either be stopped by now if duplicated and have a follow up or begun approvals, or have someone explain why its not universally accepted. or applied So I think while not conclusive, the best way to tell cause and effect is to do comparitive data. I find it interesting that the data with clean air and comparisons have not been made . Since everyone but your grandmom knows to exercise in clean air , why wouldn't data not be made to show more cause and effect between asthma and air conditions and breathing problems.. The most amazing thing is if what I am saying could be proven and ( without any drugs to hype there seems to be no motivation to do this) I might have the cure for adult onset asthma for maybe at least just as many who were cured for your studies. The only differences is I think the data exists today from millions of people, if the people who do demograhic work want to show what I am saying as truth or not without tons of new studies. The few studies that correlated breathing bad air and its negative effects seem to be mysteriously missing in all political debate and health concerns when talking about our nations health or when giving weather information but it seems important enough to have provoked studies that show the airs negative rating by city.from the epa and American Lung association. Why they can't take it to then next level is beyond me. I am left believing there is a conspiracy to hype meds and not true information that might help people with asthma. . Even the Lung Association suggests not to move to cleaner environment even if studies suggest cleaner air has positve effect on asthma. I have written American Lung Association numberous times and they simply don't answer on why they recommend that. I did get sort of an answer like they can't guarantee any local area won't be as bad as the air they people just moved away from so they shy away from making recommendations. >> that should be asthma doctor told me, about onset adult asthma. I >> honestly don't know about bacteria , but I can know about the differences [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > is what you continue to say....over and over and over and over and > over......... > Some C pneumoniae antibody titers, although not diagnostic of > chlamydial infection by present criteria, probably represent [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > people just moved away from so they shy away from making > recommendations. In other words, you won't let facts get in the way of your obsession with pollution. > I also could not understand why if this so that > more people have asthma in polluted areas every time . Keep in mind that all you are quoting is an association. The are several possibilities. One is that there is something else common to polluted areas (like infections?). Another is that the pollution makes the people more symptomatic which leads to a higher rate of diagnosis and treatment but does not actually cause the asthma. I'm getting the feeling that you don't really understand the question. > The most amazing thing is if what I am saying could be proven > and ( without any drugs to hype there seems to be no motivation [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > if the people who do demograhic work want to show what I am > saying as truth or not without tons of new studies. This is just getting back into your usual nonsense. 1) Get your story straight. Is there data or not? 2) There is plenty of epidemiological evidence linking pollution with asthma symptoms. No one doubts that breathing polluted air is bad for people with asthma and results increased symptoms. This is not the same as saying that the pollution causes the asthma or that removing it would render a cure (althought it would certainly be useful int he treatment of established cases). 3) You seem to be at corssed purposes with your self. On the one hand you want to blame your asthma on the government and so manufacture conspiracy theories involving keeping "your cure" a secret. But then when you are pressed ove rthe evidence to support your theory you fall back into saying there is plenty of evidence. 4) [Just to get back to stuff raised before that I let slide at the time but this seems like a decent place to stick it in ] - Bringing up personal stuff is not an unfair ad hominem attack if you are using the same stuff as an excuse in the discussion. When you threw it in it became fair game to discuss. As for the ALA - does it really suprise you that they are reluctant to issue specific recommendations about where you should live? I also wonder why you are writting them over this several times since you have made it well known that you already think you know the answer but will not move for personal reasons. Signature00doc >> I also could not understand why if this so that >> more people have asthma in polluted areas every time . [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > diagnosis > and treatment but does not actually cause the asthma. Exactly. I'm not surprised that those who work in tollbooths are sick a lot, but as far as I'm concerned, this is probably because they're touching peoples hands all day and picking up tons of germs in doing their job. > I'm not surprised that those who work in tollbooths are sick a lot, > but as far as I'm concerned, this is probably because they're > touching peoples hands all day and picking up tons of germs in doing > their job. Let's not forget that there is plenty of evidence for a correlation between air pollution and asthma. In California's Central Valley for example, asthma incidence has closely tracked air pollution levels. Here "asthma incidence" means both that the population of asthmatics has increased as the long-term severity of air pollution has increased and that the number of emergency room admissions goes up on days with bad air. Does air pollution *cause* asthma? I doubt it, but it certainly irritates the airways and may make people more susceptible to breathing disorders. I certainly clear my throat more often and cough during and after afternoon rush hour. General citation: http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/asthma/asthma.htm 6000-child study: http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/abstracts/94-331.htm I'm only familiar with the CA research but I know there are similar studies in other states. My personal conclusion: I would expect auto exhaust to cause health problems in toll collectors, other things being equal. I doubt that it would cause asthma in people who are not otherwise susceptible. SignatureAlison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid. (650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ Predators fail often; prey fail only once. -- Tom Evslin >> I'm not surprised that those who work in tollbooths are sick a >> lot, [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > it would cause asthma in people who are not otherwise > susceptible. I never said it doesn't contribute to their health, but I'm guessing that most of their ailments are delivered the way most germs are - via the hands. > I don't think anyone here doubts that pollution affects asthma > and that there are benefits to clean air (including NSCEO and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > sinus problems, genetics, etc etc. For some it is a combination > of things. You are 100% correct in all you've written here, Doc. Thanks for trying to better explain where I'm coming from. What I find most interesting is those that don't like what I say, can't simply not read my posts and ignore them , BUT RATHER they must tell others, that most people have me on killfire as if to imply that its best not read what I write because I might make a little too much sense which makes them feel uncomfortable. They must go beyond saying what is obvious ( as the doc likes to say) and must associate my wrtings as group speak. That shows in itself I might be right? Asthma doctors, drug companies , Republicans and those representing energy companies and who voted for it might have more reason to tell others to ignore me then just ignoring me. > "How emotions spark asthma attack", BBC News, August 30, 2005, > Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4196478.stm [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > their symptoms, and this study shows an actual link between the parts > of the brain processing emotion and physiological asthma symptoms." |
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