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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / October 2003Sulphite in foods
Sulphite (for US English speakers: sulfite) additives are used in a wide range of processed foods. They are also a well-known asthma trigger. I'm interested in who's had a bad reaction from what type of food. Some I've found to be particularly bad are:- lime-juice cordial (marked reaction) bottled orange-juice (said 'no added preservatives' on label, but store admitted it contain sodium metabisulphite when I got the reaction and threatened to report them for mislabelling) some wines, usually white (can give a strong reaction) sodium metabisulphite used in homebrew kits, and the resulting beer picked onions (sulfite preservative) instant mashed potatoes (seem to be full of sulfite, marked reaction) And a couple of questions:- 1) if you can't trust the package labels, is there any way to test food to see if it contains sulphites? 2) once you've ingested food containing sulphite/sulfite, is there any 'antidote' you can take to cancel the reaction (other than the normal asthma meds?) -- gumbo > Some I've found to be particularly bad are:- > lime-juice cordial (marked reaction) > some wines, usually white (can give a strong reaction) > sodium metabisulphite used in homebrew kits, and the resulting beer Interesting question. I have a friend who often has an allergic reaction to alcoholic beverages, which he attributes to an ethanol allergy. I wonder if it could really be a sulfite allergy? Allergies are complex to pin down.  SignatureAlison Chaiken <alison+gnus@dailyplanet.wsrcc.com> (650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ The future will judge us, as it always judges the past, by our art more than by our armies. -- Ned Rorem > > Some I've found to be particularly bad are:- > > lime-juice cordial (marked reaction) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > allergy. I wonder if it could really be a sulfite allergy? > Allergies are complex to pin down. In most cases this is from low levels of the enzyme needed to metabolize the alcohol (alcohol dehydrogenase). People with low enzyme levels who drink get a lot of flushing and nausea when they consume even small amounts. It is very common amongst Asians and is not really an allergy. I would think that any true allergy would vary from drink to drink. -- CBI, MD AAAAAAAAAActually its the lack of an enzyme called acetaldehyde dehydrogenase ALDH which is the culprit. Ethanol (the alcohol) is converted into acetaldehyde (ethanal) by the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH) this is much more toxic than ethanol. It is quickly converted to acetic acid (...and ultimately carbon dioxide and water) by ALDH. A significant proportion of Asians have low levels (or even none) of this second enzyme. It's the build-up of acetaldehyde which causes the unpleasant side-effects. Hence the facial flushing which is not uncommon in Chinese/Japanese, and why its so easy to get them drunk :o)))) Pete (for further specifics: Google - "antabuse") > > > Some I've found to be particularly bad are:- > > > lime-juice cordial (marked reaction) [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > -- > CBI, MD > AAAAAAAAAActually its the lack of an enzyme called acetaldehyde > dehydrogenase ALDH which is the culprit. Oops - you are correct. Mia Culpa -- CBI,MD I wrote: > > I have a friend who often has an allergic reaction to alcoholic > > beverages, which he attributes to an ethanol allergy. I wonder if > > it could really be a sulfite allergy? > In most cases this is from low levels of the enzyme needed to > metabolize the alcohol (alcohol dehydrogenase). People with low > enzyme levels who drink get a lot of flushing and nausea when they > consume even small amounts. What I'm talking about is more like a regular allergy. My friend gets a stuffed nose and asthma exacerbation when consuming alcohol, although only sometimes. That's why Gumbo's question made me wonder if a sulfite reaction could be implicated rather than the presumed ethanol allergy. SignatureAlison Chaiken <alison+gnus@dailyplanet.wsrcc.com> (650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ The future will judge us, as it always judges the past, by our art more than by our armies. -- Ned Rorem > I wrote: > > > I have a friend who often has an allergic reaction to alcoholic [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > if a sulfite reaction could be implicated rather than the presumed > ethanol allergy. That is less common but certainly possible. I get a similar reaction with certain brands of beer. -- CBI, MD >> > Some I've found to be particularly bad are:- >> > lime-juice cordial (marked reaction) [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > -- > CBI, MD My reaction is not to all alcohol; for example, I can drink vodka till the cows come home and suffer no ill effects (apart from the normal ones). I get brochospasm soon after drinking some types of white wine, though; in the EU there's no food labelling for wine so the manufacturers can put in anything they want. I'm sure that this is due to metabisulphite, and I've read that this is a common preservative in wine in europe. The type of the bronchospasm is quite characteristic, I get exactly the same reaction to lime cordial (which does have the sulphite on the label) and to breathing in so2 gas (noticed during adventures with home-brewing). Why would this be called an 'allergy' and not 'poisoning'? Sulphur dioxide is certainly a poison, after all. -- gumbo > Why would this be called an 'allergy' and not 'poisoning'? > Sulphur dioxide is certainly a poison, after all. I'm specualting some here as I haven't really researched the topic in full but I suspect you are not far off. Usually, small molecules like sulfate cannot trigger a true allergy and it is probably more of an irritant reaction of some kind. -- CBI, MD Yep, the sulphite ion or SO2 molecule is too small to be immunogenic itself. As "hapens" they would not be much use either. Also guessing - I'd go for irritant too - probably via the fact that SO2 is an oxidant. This looks like as good an overview as any: http://zingsolutions.com/ALLSA/html/intolerance.html The statement (in the link) that steriods are not protective (corroborated by yours trully) tends to indicate a non-inflamatory route also. Pete > > Why would this be called an 'allergy' and not 'poisoning'? > > Sulphur dioxide is certainly a poison, after all. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > CBI, MD > > Why would this be called an 'allergy' and not 'poisoning'? > > Sulphur dioxide is certainly a poison, after all. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > CBI, MD Sulfites are not declared in wines, although they seem to be typically present in them. Does this mean that they do not have to be declared in any beverages? Local rules apply.... Generally in Europe, "traditional methods" (especially French!) seem to be able to ride roughshod over most legislation that the rest of us have to adhere to. A "low strength" Leibrafaumich (7-9%)would be impossible to produce without liberal amounts of sulphite. Other beverages such as cider have similar issues if longevity is an concern. A "strong" Rioja/Barolo (13-15....%) red wine has little need for antioxidants (tannins) or anti bacterials (alcohol). Also, historically, wine barrels were sterilized (fumigated) by inserting rags holding burning sulphur in through the bung hole - which was then hammered closed . So SO2 is difficult to exclude from the process at every stage. Pete > > > Why would this be called an 'allergy' and not 'poisoning'? > > > Sulphur dioxide is certainly a poison, after all. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > present in them. Does this mean that they do not have to be declared in > any beverages? > Local rules apply.... > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Pete Thanks. It seems fair to conclude that for nonalcoholic drinks at least a lowish sulfite content does not have to be declared. Interestingly asthma is treated in Italy in a volcano crater near Naples (Pozzuoli, Campi flegrei) by inhaling what seems to me to be almost lethal doses of sulfur fumes. It sounds like a survival of exorcism. See (http://www.virtualtourist.com/vt/23f84/4/?o=2): "Despite my vigorous protests, my boyfriend bundled me into a small and low sulphur-steam suffe ('stove') built into the side of the crater. he did so because I have asthma and a sign next to the suffe says that breathing in the sulphur-laced steam is good for respiratory illnesses. Firstly, I'd like to say that it was very HOT. My nose ran for hours afterwards. Also, isnt sulphur poisonous? I was sure I'd exhaled 2 yrs off of my life after 15 minutes in the suffe but strangely enough, I've not had any respiratory problems since that suffe experience. a miracle!" Regards, Richard Friedel > > Local rules apply.... > > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Regards, Richard Friedel I think, in my reading I've seen, figures of about 10% asthmatics are sensitive to SO2. From that I would infer that a proportion of asthmatics are totally un-bothered by SO2. Incidentally an old friend of mine - also an asthmatic from childhood - smokes cigarettes "like a chimney"! He maintains that it [smoking] helps his breathing!! Pete >Subject: Re: Sulphite in foods Further question >From: Richard Friedel s3e0101@mailin.lrz-muenchen.de >Date: 09/23/03 11:01 AM Eastern >Sulfites are not declared in wines, Sulfites are declared on the wine I drink which is muscadine & blackberry.Delicious. Different posters from different nations with different laws. The wine labels in the USA almost invariably say "contains sulphites' and %alcohol. That's about it. (We assume there are grapes) The United Kingdom? Germany? Elsewhere? > Different posters from different nations with different laws. The wine > labels in the USA almost invariably say "contains sulphites' and > %alcohol. That's about it. (We assume there are grapes) > > The United Kingdom? Germany? Elsewhere? In Germany not even Californian wine is stated to contained sulfites, although the label seems to be that intended for use in the States as well. >> Different posters from different nations with different laws. The wine >> labels in the USA almost invariably say "contains sulphites' and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > although the label seems to be that intended for use in the States as > well. Ditto in the UK. Californian wine is widely sold, but the labelling never mentions the suphite it contains. It appears that the manufacturers only list in in countries where they are legally bound so to do. >>> Different posters from different nations with different laws. The wine >>> labels in the USA almost invariably say "contains sulphites' and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >manufacturers only list in in countries where they are legally >bound so to do. ALL wine contains sulphites, as a natural occurance of the fermentation process. http://www.cellarnotes.net/sulphites.html Sulfites in Wine All wines contain at least some small amount of sulfites. They are a natural result of the same fermentation process that turns grape juice into alcohol. Even wines that have not had any sulfites added during the winemaking process contain some amount of sulfites. Sulfur dioxide (SO2) is used by winemakers to keep freshly pressed must from spoiling. It keeps down the activities of native yeast and bacteria and preserves the freshness of the wine. Modern technology has allowed the use of significantly less sulfur than was used in the past but some is necessary to make a stable wine. Regulations in the United States require that domestic and imported wines carry warning labels if they have sulfites in excess of 10 parts per million. Wines that have less than 10 parts per million are not required to carry the "Contains Sulfites" label but they still contain sulfites in some level. --- ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon ```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." > ALL wine contains sulphites, as a natural occurance of the fermentation > process. > > http://www.cellarnotes.net/sulphites.html > > Sulfites in Wine Looks like I'll be sticking to the wodka. -- gumbo Gumbo, In order: Take your Lager straight, better still drink Bitter! See above Black Tower ought to carry a health warning! Drink (strong) red wine instead :o) I always skipped the metabisulphite - lots of boiling water instead. Do your own onions (and eggs). As above. What is causing you the problem is sulphur dioxide. I know you can get "SO2 test kits" They are probably iodide based - turn purple (iodine) in the presence of SO2 gas - I've no idea how good they are, and they are probably not as sensitive as your lungs!! :o( Once you've gone into bronchospasm - probably not. SO2 is an effective and cheap way of preserving lots of (dried) foods - unfortunately! And don't be fooled into going for the "Organic" option - its permitted. Pete > Sulphite (for US English speakers: sulfite) additives are used in a > wide range of processed foods. They are also a well-known asthma trigger. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > -- gumbo > Sulphite (for US English speakers: sulfite) additives are used in a > wide range of processed foods. They are also a well-known asthma trigger. > I'm interested in who's had a bad reaction from what type of food. > Some I've found to be particularly bad are:- My wife gets it when she eats some dried fruits - especially some brands of peaches. > 1) if you can't trust the package labels, is there any way to test food > to see if it contains sulphites? It is hard. Fortunately, her reaction is mild so she just tries one. > 2) once you've ingested food containing sulphite/sulfite, is there any > 'antidote' you can take to cancel the reaction (other than the normal > asthma meds?) You could try Benedryl or some other anti-histamine. -- CBI, MD > Sulphite (for US English speakers: sulfite) additives are used in a > wide range of processed foods. They are also a well-known asthma trigger. > I'm interested in who's had a bad reaction from what type of food. > Some I've found to be particularly bad are:- > > lime-juice cordial (marked reaction) Yes, definateley plus some other cordials. > bottled orange-juice (said 'no added preservatives' on label, but store > admitted it contain sodium metabisulphite when I got the reaction and > threatened to report them for mislabelling) > > some wines, usually white (can give a strong reaction) Wine bungs me up completely. Also vermouth. > sodium metabisulphite used in homebrew kits, and the resulting beer or homemade wine... > picked onions (sulfite preservative) Like but cant eat. > instant mashed potatoes (seem to be full of sulfite, marked reaction) Dont eat those. Dont really like potatoes. Interesting comments...so its sulfites that does it? Thanks, Mia > Interesting comments...so its sulfites that does it? > > Thanks, > > Mia Sulfites are just one of the triggers. I find it interesting that other (substantially more erudite) posters in this thread agree with my guess that the asthmatic sulphite reaction is not allergic in nature. Perhaps asthmatics have a higher sensitivity to sulfites and airborne irritants in general (I certainly seem to have a very heightened sensitivity to smoke, for example, which other people can tolerate without trouble). Perhaps the asthmatic's lungs are damaged and unable to withstand irritants that normally healthy lungs are untroubled by, though don't quote me on that. -- gumbo |
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