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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / August 2005

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Studies Finally Debunk Echinacea For Colds

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Steven L. - 28 Jul 2005 15:18 GMT
Echinacea's efficacy for colds debunked
'No evidence that it actually does anything'
- Karen Kaplan, Los Angeles Times
Thursday, July 28, 2005

Echinacea, the herbal remedy used by millions of Americans for fighting
the common cold, does not ward off runny noses, sore throats or
headaches, nor does it help speed recovery from cold symptoms, according
to the results of a major clinical study released today.

"We find no evidence that it actually does anything to common cold
symptoms," said Dr. Ronald Turner, a professor of pediatrics at the
University of Virginia School of Medicine and lead author of the study
reported in the New England Journal of Medicine. "If that's the reason
you're buying it, then you're wasting your money."

While other studies have shown similar results, echinacea enthusiasts
said they did not think the latest study merited such a clear-cut
conclusion. They noted that Turner and his colleagues used only the root
portion of one version of the plant from which echinacea is derived --
the purple coneflower -- and said the dosage given was too low to
register any positive effect.

"This is a good contribution to the clinical literature, but it's not
the definitive study on echinacea," said Mark Blumenthal, executive
director of the American Botanical Council, a nonprofit group backed by
herbal supplement makers whose logo includes a purple echinacea flower.
"I just wish it had been a bigger study with bigger dosages."

Americans spent $153 million on echinacea products last year, making it
one of the five best-selling herbs in the country, according to the
Nutrition Business Journal, an industry publication based in San Diego.
It comes in capsules, tablets, tonics, powders, lozenges, tea bags and
even gummy vitamins for children. But spending has been declining
steadily since 2001 as some users become disillusioned with the product,
said editor Grant Ferrier.

"With a lot of herbal botanicals, including echinacea, there's not a
tangible effect," Ferrier said. "It's not like taking a pill for a
headache. A lot of it goes on faith."

The study included 437 people who volunteered to have cold viruses
dripped into their noses. Some took echinacea for a week beforehand,
while others got a placebo. Others swallowed echinacea or a placebo at
the time they were infected.

Then the subjects, mostly college students, were secluded in hotel rooms
for five days while scientists examined them for symptoms and took nasal
washings to look for the virus and for an immune system protein,
interleukin-8, which some had hypothesized was stimulated by echinacea,
enabling the herb to stop colds.

But the investigators found that those who took echinacea fared no
differently from those who took a placebo -- they were just as likely to
get a cold, their symptoms were just as severe, they had just as much
virus in their nasal secretions, and they made no more interleukin-8.

While some echinacea researchers say more study is needed, Dr. Stephen
Straus, director of the National Center for Complementary and
Alternative Medicine, which sponsored the new study, says he, for one,
is satisfied that echinacea is not an effective cold remedy.

"This paper says it will not pre-empt a common cold, and it stands on
top of prior studies saying it doesn't treat an established cold,"
Straus said. "We've got to stop attributing any efficacy to echinacea,"
he added.

Echinacea, a member of the same plant family as sunflowers and daisies,
was used for hundreds of years by more than a dozen American Indian
tribes to treat snakebites, toothaches, coughs and other ailments.

Western doctors began recommending it in the 19th century. It became
popular in the United States in the 1960s as consumers embraced herbal
alternatives to traditional medicine. No less an authority than the
World Health Organization recognized echinacea as a treatment for colds
in 1999.

In an accompanying editorial to the study, Dr. Wallace Sampson, an
emeritus clinical professor of medicine at Stanford University School of
Medicine, questioned why the government was wasting tax dollars on
funding alternative medicine studies, some of which have turned out to
be nothing but snake oil.

"Research into implausible remedies rarely produces useful information,"
wrote Sampson, who was not connected to the study.

But one of the study's co-authors, Dr. Rudolph Bauer, a professor of
pharmaceutical biology at the Karl-Franzens University in Graz, Austria,
said the study should be repeated with other echinacea species and with
other preparations and with different doses.

"I am always in favor of further studies," Bauer said. He himself takes
echinacea and will continue to take it, he says.

The New York Times contributed to this report.

Page A - 1
URL:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/07/28/MNGNTDURFL1.DTL

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/07/28/MNGNTDURFL1.DTL

[
Advocates of "alternative medicine" often complain that, unlike "the big
pharma companies," they just don't have the funds to perform scientific
studies or clinical trials.

Yet for echinacea at least, there have now been *several* scientific
studies to investigate its usefulness for treating or preventing the
common cold, published in peer-reviewed journals.  None has shown any
useful effect.

Scientific research continues on other alternative remedies as well.
The MedLine database is a good place to start looking.
]

Signature

Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:  sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net

Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

LadyLollipop - 28 Jul 2005 18:15 GMT
Guess what?

I could care less what they found. *I* have found that Echinacea C
DEFINITELY helps me to get over a cold faster and easier. I take it every
day as the best source of  vitamin C.

Jan

> Echinacea's efficacy for colds debunked
> 'No evidence that it actually does anything'
[quoted text clipped - 109 lines]
> MedLine database is a good place to start looking.
> ]
Rich.@. - 28 Jul 2005 18:19 GMT
>Guess what?
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Jan

No surprise there. Jan Drew also thought that removing her amalgams
resulted in her going from bedridden and dying of mercury poisoning to
line dancing and pain free (soon to return as placebo responses are
short lived) due to not getting a daily dose of mercury even though
her mercury level had risen from the removal. The bottom line is that
Jan Drew is clearly a placebo responder who is very suggestible. If
she had not read a Hulda Clark book about amalgams she likely would
never have had her health deteriorate so rapidly.

Aloha,

Rich

PS: Cue Jan to start a new thread attacking me. Just watch.
-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

Best defense to logic is ignorance
MS - 05 Aug 2005 16:15 GMT
> Guess what?
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Jan

And--I could care less that they've found that there isn't really a Santa
Claus. I like to believe he exists, I'll ignore any evidence to the
contrary. ;-)

If you choose to believe that, and take the stuff as a result, go ahead and
do it, as it probably won't do you any harm, other than to your pocketbook.
(I'm sure plain Vitamin C tablets cost much less.)

Why is it "the best source" of Vitamin C? Isn't the best source to get it
from fruits and vegetables?

There is no way for you to know that it DEFINITELY helps you with colds, as
the times that you took it, you might have done just as well without it. But
placebo effect works too, so perhaps it might help you due to your belief in
it. No harm done in taking it, just that I would suggest not being so
DEFINITE about it.
PeterB - 28 Jul 2005 18:42 GMT
http://www.expressnews.ualberta.ca/article.cfm?id=621

Remember that NO study proves anything definitively, and many of the
latest studies appear to be poorly designed.  Please ignore Pharma
Blogging tactics designed to denigrate natural medicine approaches in
order to sell more pseudoephedrine.  One reason people don't benefit
substantively from echinacea is because they are using the wrong
species for the wrong condition.  The less expensive and commonly
available form, echinacea purpea, appears to be more useful at
*preventing* illness resulting from lowered immunity, which means you
need to take it on a daily basis.  In my view, though, this is not a
very cost effective way to maintain a robust immune system, since
overall quality of nutrition is probably more effective.  The key for
most people taking an herbal remedy while ill is to be sure and take
the species that is effective at reducing symptoms, not simply boosting
overall immunity.  Echinacia angustifolia is the species that appears
to be effective at lessening existing symptoms of cold and flu.  I
would suggest a person take at least 1000mg in divided doses throughout
the day.  In my opinion, however, nothing works better than n-acetyl
cystein combined with Elderberry syrup to reduce symptoms of a common
virus.  A clinical study which proved this is discussed in a late
vintage book written by a doctor whose name I am looking for.  I wish
now I had bought his book.

PeterB
jackmallory@webtv.net - 29 Jul 2005 03:51 GMT
Has the world totally forgotten that opiates, including codeine along
with the stronger derivatives, quickly and substantially relieve many
cold symptoms?
Physician Heal Thyself - 29 Jul 2005 17:09 GMT
> http://www.expressnews.ualberta.ca/article.cfm?id=621
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> PeterB

Echinacea may work for some people and not for others.
It certainly works for me.

But you rarely ever hear a pharma talk that way.
Their products always work for everyone
and they want everyone's business. Their products
are generally geared to treating cold symptoms rather
than blocking colds.

Leave it to the Australians to find a cure for ulcers and
the Americans to replace it with "acid reflux" relief meds.
Seriously, when are we going to get a cure for tooth decay
instead of all these contraptions and whitening tooth pastes ?
PeterB - 04 Aug 2005 16:07 GMT
> > http://www.expressnews.ualberta.ca/article.cfm?id=621
> >
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> the Americans to replace it with "acid reflux" relief meds.
> Seriously, when are we going to get a cure for tooth decay ...

Start using xylitol, it helps...
MS - 05 Aug 2005 16:19 GMT
Here is another study:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/472512
Rae - 29 Jul 2005 04:53 GMT
From what I heard, they didn't test with a sufficient quantity of
echinachea. But then maybe people aren't taking enough either. You would
have thought they would have tested with the quantities that users of this
herb typically take.

Interesting that this study comes along around the same time that CAFTA
passed and when a new bill to regulate herbs is now under consideration....

Paranoid? YES!

We may lose our rights to choose our supps. or they may become too
expensive.

| Echinacea's efficacy for colds debunked
| 'No evidence that it actually does anything'
[quoted text clipped - 95 lines]
| URL:
| http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/07/28/MNGNTDURFL1.DTL

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/07/28/MNGNTDURFL1.DTL

| [
| Advocates of "alternative medicine" often complain that, unlike "the big
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
| The MedLine database is a good place to start looking.
| ]
PeterB - 29 Jul 2005 14:42 GMT
> From what I heard, they didn't test with a sufficient quantity of
> echinachea. But then maybe people aren't taking enough either. You would
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> We may lose our rights to choose our supps. or they may become too
> expensive.

Many of these studies are influenced by those attempting to gut free
market access to traditional medicine.  See my note (above) which
indicates which species of echinacea DOES provide benefit during
(rather than before) viral infection.  If anyone can show which species
was used in the study, please provide a link.

PeterB
Bob - 29 Jul 2005 17:17 GMT
>> From what I heard, they didn't test with a sufficient quantity of
>> echinachea. But then maybe people aren't taking enough either. You would
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
>PeterB

They used Echinacea angustifolia root in their study, but the abstract
link below does not mention the dosage.  

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/353/4/341
00doc - 29 Jul 2005 17:46 GMT
But isn't how the meds are commonly used and available a much more
salient question?

Also, you shouldn't confuse an issue with how one negative study was
done as bolstering the alternative argument.

Signature

00doc

Rae - 29 Jul 2005 18:01 GMT
Good point.
Maybe they should have tested the dosage that would be required to show any
effect.  I am not sure who did these tests or who funded them so I'm not
going to argue either way on it.

| But isn't how the meds are commonly used and available a much more
| salient question?
|
| <snip>|
PeterB - 29 Jul 2005 18:40 GMT
> But isn't how the meds are commonly used and available a much more
> salient question?

>From a marketing perspective but not for the purpose of determining
efficacy at a therapeutic dosage.  Evaluating the health effects of
aspirin would vary person to person in the same way if that were the
focus.

> Also, you shouldn't confuse an issue with how one negative study was
> done as bolstering the alternative argument.

I never said the study bolstered the alternative argument -- I said one
negative study doesn't prove echinacea doesn't work.

PeterB
MS - 04 Aug 2005 06:34 GMT
> Interesting that this study comes along around the same time that CAFTA
> passed and when a new bill to regulate herbs is now under consideration....
>
> Paranoid? YES!

I hope they do regulate herbs.

If an herb has medicinal effects, shouldn't consumers have the same
protections we have for medicines? Such as--if a medical claim is being made
for an herb, that should be proven? Otherwise, they can wildly make claims
for anything, in order to sell it.

Also, to make sure any herbal preparations sold really has a specific amount
of the active ingredient in it. To have something work as a medicine, you
need to know how much of the actual med is present in each capsule, that
should be regulated, in order to take enough, but not to take too much.
Consumers should be made aware of side effects of herbal medicines, just as
is the case with other meds.

There really should be regulation of herbal meds, just as there is with
other meds. In the long run that could only help herbal medicine, if people
could feel some confidence that a product really doles what it is advertised
as doing, that the preparation has enough of the active ingredient in it,
that they have been made aware of side effects. However, of course the
companies that manufacture the herbal meds will resist regulation at first,
as any company would do. More hassle for them, to deal with the regulations.
In the long run, however, I think it would be better for the field of herbal
medicine, to be regulated as other meds are.
00doc - 04 Aug 2005 13:16 GMT
The real joke about the whole thing - and what tells you that all this
huffing and puffing by politico will result in little to no change - is
that if they really wanted to do something about it they could with the
present laws. It is already illegal to make false claims about what is
in the bottle and what it can do. It is called fraud and you can
already be fined and jailed for it.

Signature

00doc

s3e0101@mailin.lrz-muenchen.de - 07 Aug 2005 08:45 GMT
I understand your attack on a sort of herbal ideology and true believer
stuff.  From my own limited experience Echinacea did not help one
little bit.

But if you are insisting on mainstream medicine as a sort of gold
standard, don't forget that asthma sprays cause GERD (see below) which
modulates airway sensitivity.  As the renowned physician Osler showed
100 years ago, there is a connection between reflux ("heartburn") or
GERD as it is now called.  Simple fact is that drinking a diluted acid
(HCl, f.i.) makes the airways more asthmatically sensitive.  The
pulmonologists' excuse for not telling people about this is probably
that they keep strictly to scientific medicine based on the lungs.  All
else would be too "integrative" or "holistic".Regards, Richard Friedel

.....................
Does Inhaled Albuterol Increase the Risk for GERD?
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20020315/tips/9.html

Approximately 15 million people in the United States have asthma. Of
these, more than 75 percent have symptoms of gastroesophageal reflux.
Multiple studies have established a link between asthma exacerbations
and reflux, which may also be a precipitating factor in the development
of asthma. Treatment of asthma includes medications that relax
bronchial smooth muscle and reduce bronchoconstriction. One of the more
common medications used to relax these smooth muscles is the inhaled
beta2-adrenergic agonist albuterol. There is speculation that part of
the response to this inhaled bronchodilator is a reduction in lower
esophageal sphincter tone, which increases the risk of gastroesophageal
reflux. This increase in reflux can increase the chance of exacerbating
asthma. Crowell and associates studied the impact of inhaled albuterol
on lower esophageal sphincter tone.

The study was a prospective, randomized, placebo-controlled,
double-blind crossover trial in healthy volunteers. A nebulizer was
used to administer albuterol at doses of 2.5 to 10 mg or placebo to the
volunteers at two sessions one week apart. The protocol was 2.5 mg of
albuterol per nebulizer treatment every 20 minutes until a cumulative
dose of 10 mg had been administered. The esophagus was studied during
the treatment sessions with a 6-cm manometry assembly and
low-compliance pneumohydraulic pump at 5 cm, 10 cm, and 15 cm above the
lower esophageal sphincter. The volunteers were given 5-mL water
swallows, and esophageal measurements were taken at 20 and 50 minutes
before the trial and at the end of each 20-minute dosing period.

The albuterol inhalation produced a dose-dependent reduction in lower
esophageal sphincter tone and a cumulative dose of 7.5 mg reduced lower
esophageal pressures. These were statistically significant reductions
when compared with placebo. The use of albuterol also reduced the
amplitude of esophageal contractions.

The authors conclude that inhaled albuterol has a significant impact on
esophageal function and increases the risk for gastroesophageal reflux.
This reflux could increase the risk for persistent asthma because of
the potential impact of acid on bronchoconstriction. This result is
particularly true at higher dosages. The authors do caution that
because this study was done in healthy volunteers, further studies need
to be performed in persons with asthma.

KARL E. MILLER, M.D.
00doc - 07 Aug 2005 15:44 GMT
> I understand your attack on a sort of herbal ideology and true
> believer stuff.  From my own limited experience Echinacea did not
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> which
> modulates airway sensitivity.

Eh <shrug> a few comments:

1) The comment about "mainstream medicine" and gold standards is kind
of negative and suggests a certain closed mindedness on the part of
people who rely on it. I don't think this is generally the case at
all. I think most people have a fairly open mind and try to go with
what has been shown to work. USUALLY that turns out to be "mainstream
medicine". Mind you, I am not saying that everything that is accepted
by "mainstream medicine" has good evidence behind it or even works or
that nothing "natural" is inneffective, but the vast majority of the
time "mainstream medicine" is the way to go. Besides, those terms are
becomming more and more blurred as many
"mainstream" docs have been using select "natural" remedies and many
of the "natural" remedies are just as contrived as the "mainstream"
pharmaceuticals.

2) The goal of asthma therapy is to reduce the use of albuterol as
much as possible. So when you point out a potential problem with
albuterol you are just preaching to the choir about the need to reduce
its use.

3) A 2.5mg neb delivers about 10 times the dose of albuterol as two
puffs from an inhaler. In addition, because it is continuous and not
coordinated with breathing a greater fraction is swallowed than with
an MDI. The 10mg dose is equivalent with 4 back to back nebs, which
usually is given to people who may be headed to the ICU for
respiratory distress. At that point you get the person breathing and
worry about triggers such as GERD later. It would be interesting to
know if the results apply to the much lower doses more typically used
by asthmatics.

4) While I agree that GERD is an important factor in asthma that must
be kept in mind it seems like you are getting into a bit of a chicken
and egg argument by trying to blame the wheezing on the treatment for
it.

> As the renowned physician Osler showed
> 100 years ago, there is a connection between reflux ("heartburn") or
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> All else would be too "integrative" or "holistic".Regards, Richard
> Friedel

Umm.... for one thing Osler is about as "mainstream"  as you can get
so I am not sure how the first sentence relates to the last. Secondly,
pulmonoligists are well aware of the relation with reflux and
routinely warn their patients about it.

Signature

00doc

 
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