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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / June 2005

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Intal - aerosol vs spincaps

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Joe Caruso - 15 Jun 2005 23:57 GMT
My pharmacy recently provided me with Intal spincaps rather than the Intal
Aerosol that they advised me it was no longer available in the spray
aerosol. I didn't have time to investigate or research as I was leaving on
vacation in a few days and didn't have time to research this further.

Anybody else told that Intal was no longer availabe in Aerosol format? BTW
the original format of Intal was in Spincaps in 1969 when it first came out.

- Joe
NorthShoreCEO - 16 Jun 2005 00:07 GMT
I don't know about this particular drug, but I can tell you with
100% certainty that stores (meaning drugstores, retail stores,
grocery stores) have adapted a new marketing ploy in recent
years.  They use phrases like, "being phased out", "no longer
available", etc. when what they really mean is, "we've dropped it
from the products we're carrying, but you can get it elsewhere".
They don't want you going elsewhere, so they make it sound like
it's not available anywhere.

I would call around to other pharmacies and see if they're still
carrying it, if you prefer the aerosol.

> My pharmacy recently provided me with Intal spincaps rather
> than the Intal Aerosol that they advised me it was no longer
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> - Joe
00doc - 16 Jun 2005 04:45 GMT
> I don't know about this particular drug, but I can tell you with
> 100% certainty that stores (meaning drugstores, retail stores,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> They don't want you going elsewhere, so they make it sound like
> it's not available anywhere.

I've had a few occasions where I have written a prescription and then
a few hours later the patient calls me upset because the pharmacist
wouldn't fill it saying there was an error in how it was written. When
I have called the pharmacist he admitted that they were just out of
the product. I've always assumed that the same motivation was at
play - they don't want to admit the real reason for fear that you will
decide not to wait and take the rx elsewhere.

> I would call around to other pharmacies and see if they're still
> carrying it, if you prefer the aerosol.

I agree.

Signature

00doc

NorthShoreCEO - 16 Jun 2005 12:43 GMT
> I've had a few occasions where I have written a prescription
> and then a few hours later the patient calls me upset because
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> to admit the real reason for fear that you will decide not to
> wait and take the rx elsewhere.

Oh, that's swell service for you.  My pharmacy at least calls me
to say they're out of it and will have it by a certain date
rather than this game playing.   I honestly don't get the
rationale behind this at all.  The example I gave was dishonest
marketing.  This is just sheer stupidity.

I must say that more than once when a doctor or his staff was to
call in a prescription,  I've been stuck in the middle of the
game of  "the doctor didn't...." and the doctors office saying,
"the pharmacy didn't...." when the script wasn't filled, and I
really HATE that.
00doc - 17 Jun 2005 01:28 GMT
>> I've had a few occasions where I have written a prescription
>> and then a few hours later the patient calls me upset because
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> rationale behind this at all.  The example I gave was dishonest
> marketing.  This is just sheer stupidity.

I agree it is stupid. When you understand that it is basically lying
to place the blame somewhere else it begins to make a little sense.

> I must say that more than once when a doctor or his staff was to
> call in a prescription,  I've been stuck in the middle of the
> game of  "the doctor didn't...." and the doctors office saying,
> "the pharmacy didn't...." when the script wasn't filled, and I
> really HATE that.

I find the most common reason for that scenario (when I know it has
been called in that is) is that the doc (or his staff) left it on the
recorded refill line and no one in the pharmacy has checked it yet.
Either that or the pharmacy faxed a refill request and it was faxed
back but it is still sitting in a pile of faxes waiting to be entered.
I'm sure there are plenty of occasions where it hasn't been done yet
by the doc's office as well.

Insurance carriers are the ones who are really famous for claiming
they haven't recived faxes yet. Whne I fax a form to an insurer what I
do now is if the patient has a fax machine I fax it to the insurer
first then fax both the form and the fax confirmation to the patient.
That is a way to let the patient know for a fact that it was done.
Somehow when the patient says to the cutomer service rep, "well, he
faxed it to me along with the confirmation to you so I don't know why
you don't have it - here, let me fax it to you again,"  it ALWAYS goes
through.

Sometimes I think the insurance company's faxes have caller ID and
sophisticated software. If the fax come from a doctor's office it is
directed to a paper shreader. if ti comes from a patient it is
directed to customer service for procesing.

Signature

00doc

NorthShoreCEO - 17 Jun 2005 11:52 GMT
wrote:

> I find the most common reason for that scenario (when I know it
> has been called in that is) is that the doc (or his staff) left
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> occasions where it hasn't been done yet by the doc's office as
> well.

Thanks....now I can tell them where to look!

> Insurance carriers are the ones who are really famous for
> claiming they haven't recived faxes yet. Whne I fax a form to
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> the confirmation to you so I don't know why you don't have it -
> here, let me fax it to you again,"  it ALWAYS goes through.

Geeze, I wish MY docs did this.  And don't even get me started
about insurance.  I swear they go out of their way to confuse
people.  It was $500.00 to do my initial biopsy, I don't know HOW
much for the doctor visits, lab work and scans, and $12,000.00
for each of the chemo treatments.  Do you think they could apply
my $500 deductible to the biopsy?  No, they apply some piddly
amount to that, then some piddly amount to each of the six chemo
rounds, and a little to each of the tests, etc.  Why is common
sense so foreign to these people?  I can't get anyone to give me
a good reason as to WHY they do it this way, either.

> > Sometimes I think the insurance company's faxes have caller
> > ID and
> sophisticated software. If the fax come from a doctor's office
> it is directed to a paper shreader. if ti comes from a patient
> it is directed to customer service for procesing.

Maybe, but I'm still arguing about WHERE the check is they insist
they mailed to me earlier this year.  So, they process it, but
then they lose it.   I HATE insurance - it's honestly a full time
job.

I'm supposed to be avoiding stress.  How can I do that when I'm
dealing with insurance companies??????
00doc - 18 Jun 2005 15:08 GMT
> Thanks....now I can tell them where to look!

Of course, they would have to be willing to admit it was their error.
It might be best to ask them to check there and give them enough time
to claim that the doc just called it in before you ckeck back with
them ; - ) .

>> Insurance carriers are the ones who are really famous for
>> claiming they haven't recived faxes yet.

> Geeze, I wish MY docs did this.  And don't even get me started
> about insurance.  I swear they go out of their way to confuse
> people.

I'm sure of it - seriously. I know for a fact (because some
disgruntled underlings have admitted it) that when they get too many
claims to process they are told to just start rejecting some. At worst
it delays the time until they have to pay and spreads their workload
out into a more managable time frame and at best a lot of the claims
never get resubmitted (for several reasons that are all bad).

In my old office we adapted by doing basically the same. If we got
more rejections than we had time to individually investigate we would
just start resubmitting them as is. We found that about half of them
were accepted the second time around.

My favorite was when they would reject a claim and tell you what was
wrong. Things like, "you have the wrong account number. That first
digit is an O not a 0." Well.......if you know that.....

Blue choice is famous for a really nice one. There is a rule that you
have a time limit (usually 60 days) after the services are rendereed
to originally submit a claim. After that you have like 90 more days to
resubmit rejected claims. When a new patient (say a new child) is
added to a policy they take a good 4 weeks until after the paper work
is completed to add the kid. They then pay retroactively to the birth
but there is a catch. In those 4 weeks (or more) there is usually one
or two visits by the ped in the hospital (or more), a one week check,
and possibly a one month check. All of those visits will be rejected
saying the patient is not in the system. No problem, just resubmitt
and get paid retroactively when the kid is in the sytem, right?

Wrong.

The tricky part is that they don't enter it into the system. They just
return the claim form with a nice little note saying, "sorry, he's not
in our system." This, of course, takes a few weeks to come back which
puts it right about, you guessed it, at the deadline to file the
claim. What they are supposed to do is to put the claim into the
system and offically reject it. That way there is a record (and an
explanation of benefits form is sent to the subscriber - leading to
irate phone calls about why they are not paying). The difference is
that they just kind of do it informally so there is no record in their
computers.

Doing it this way has two consequences. As I said before it keeps the
subscriber in the dark because no EOB is sent. It also means that if
the doc's office is not on the ball he won't get paid for those first
several visits (and sets up a nice little confrontation where the
insurer claims he was not paid because he never filed the claim). The
office either has to refile the claim in the possibly several days he
has before the 60 days expires (it may already have passed) or be sure
to keep those nice little informal notes as proof that the claim was
submitted.

Nice, huh?

Basically, the more confusion there is surrounding the billing the
less they pay out. So I have no doubts that they do some things to
foster confusion.

But what if the confusion leads them to paying too much? It is not
common but it does happen. If the doc discovers a year down the road
that there was an error he is probably past the deadline and out of
luck. If the insurer discovers a year down the line that there was an
error they just send a letter to the doc saying that he was overpaid
and that they will take adjustments out of future payments. Unless it
happens enough for a class actions suit to be filed (which happend to
Aetna- and they lost) there isn't a whole lot the doc can do because
we are usually talking about far less than a lawsuit would cost.

> Maybe, but I'm still arguing about WHERE the check is they insist
> they mailed to me earlier this year.  So, they process it, but
> then they lose it.   I HATE insurance - it's honestly a full time
> job.

The industry average is for every primary care doc to employ between
one and two full time people (per doc) to do nothing but deal with
insurance.

People are always claiming that they would like to reduce doctor's
fees. One way would be to force the insurers to accept standardized
online claims and referal forms. That way they could be automatied and
that count could drop from two people per doc to less than 0.5. But
the insurance company's lobbyists won't let that pass because they
like to make it hard to submit claims and make referrals.

> I'm supposed to be avoiding stress.  How can I do that when I'm
> dealing with insurance companies??????

Not possible.

Signature

00doc

NorthShoreCEO - 18 Jun 2005 21:29 GMT
After reading this and looking at my stack of medical bills and
EOB's, I've REALLY got a headache!

>> Thanks....now I can tell them where to look!
>
[quoted text clipped - 109 lines]
>
> Not possible.
Joe Caruso - 16 Jun 2005 17:50 GMT
I've had a second pharmacy also advise me the aerosol is no longer available
(that's here in Canada). so it's either spincaps or try a different drug.

- Joe

> My pharmacy recently provided me with Intal spincaps rather than the Intal
> Aerosol that they advised me it was no longer available in the spray
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> - Joe
Tom Shores - 16 Jun 2005 18:52 GMT
I wonder if this could be related to or similar to the phase-out of CFC
propellants in the US.  Were my inhalers really harming the environment?
The new HFA propellant ones don't seem as effective to me.

> I've had a second pharmacy also advise me the aerosol is no longer available
> (that's here in Canada). so it's either spincaps or try a different drug.
>
> - Joe
NorthShoreCEO - 16 Jun 2005 20:25 GMT
Tom, I think that's what it is.  I just found this on
www.calgaryallergy.ca :

"The aerosol puffer, however, is changing. Inhalers contain a gas
called chloroflurocarbon (or CFC) to help spray the medicine into
your lungs. CFCs, while safe for you, harm the ozone layer, which
protects us from the sun's burning rays.
There is one CFC-free inhaler on the Canadian market, a Reliever
medication (salbutamol) called Airomir. Since all aerosol puffers
will become CFC-free in  Canada by 2005, with a projected 60%
phase-out of current MDI inhalers by 2001, CFC-free puffers are
being prescribed increasingly over what you might be using now. "

>I wonder if this could be related to or similar to the phase-out
>of CFC
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>>
>> - Joe
 
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