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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / June 2005yamoa powder - You must read about this!
I heard through an alternative newsletter about an amazing all natural asthma cure. I found it locally at an alternative health pharmacy here where I live. It is amazing. I am on day 12 of taking this powder. 1/4 teaspoon in AM with a little grapefruit juice and 1/4 teaspoon at night. (I didn't want to take it with honey as they suggest since I watch my weight and sugar intake.) For the first time since I cannot remember, YEARS, I was able to walk my dog up hills etc., without using my rescue inhaler. I came home from our walk so excited the last couple of days. Still didn't need the inhaler after I got home. I used to reach for the inhaler on waking. Now, I get up fine. I do not need the inhaler. I visited an asthma allergy and asthma doctor here in Va., a few years ago and he wanted me to go on pulmicort. I tried it then stopped because it gave me yeast infections in my throat. I didn't trust the long term side affects it might cause so stopped using it after the first tube ran out. After that, I just used my inhaler (over the counter inhaler) all the time throughout the day and night. I never went anywhere without it. Now, I'm thinking maybe I'm cured. The other thing this amazing ALL NATURAL powder has done, is to clear up my allergies. I have not been without a box of tissues nearby or in my hand when outside in YEARS. On my walks, I had to contantly dry my nose and eyes over the last several years because i live in Shenandoah valley and its bad for allergies and asthmatics. It was always embarrasing when meeting people on the street or in the park, having to use my tissue constantly. Over the past few days, when I walked my dog, I never needed a tissue! My nose did not run AT ALL. My eyes did not water. I cannot say enough about this wonderful product. They say most people only have to use one bottle. It last 30 days. Some people may need a 2nd . I do not know yet if I'll need a follow up bottle or not, but at day 12, I am ecstatic! I have had asthma since I was about 7 years old. Felt I came near death several times. Had many many severe asthma attacks. One came recently, this past month. I Finally had resolved after the last one which was brought on by a simple head cold which went into bronchitus, that I could not risk my life with any more. So had resigned myself to going back to the doctor to get on the pulmicort or whatever he suggested. Then I picked up a health newsletter that I had read before and had put aside. I read again about this amazing powder from Ghana. I got the powder from a local health pharmacy. Needless to say, I will NOT be going on medication. I know I sound like an infomercial for this product, but I have no interest in their company. I just want to share this wonderful info for anyone out there who like me, suffered with asthma and didn't want to take medication or for those looking for help for their children. This product is called yamoa. They have a website called yamoapowder.com Read the other testimonials on their website for yourself. If you do an online search, you can find several vitamin or health stores that sell it here in US so you don't have to order it from England. I hope this helps someone. Rae > I know I sound like an infomercial for this product, but I have no > interest in their company. Rae - I know this guy who has some realestate in Florida. Right now it is just cheap swamp land but he says that several developers are looking to build hotels and condos there so if you hurry you can get in one the ground floor and really clean up. I'm not personally involved with this so I don't stand to make any money if you decide to invest. If you would like to know more just go to paypal.com and deposit $50 into the account of 00doc@commoncast.com and he'll send you a brochure. It is just a wonderful opportunity. I just like seeing other benefit from things like this.  Signature00doc What a pitifully negative person you are! Or perhaps you work for a pharmaceutical company? That would explain much. Hopefully there will be others who will read my post and investigate further by reading the testimonials of others like me who have been cured and want to share their blessing and be helped by this wonderful cure. You are in effect, calling me a liar. So be it. That speak volumes about who you are. Your awkward attempt at humorous sarcasm is downright stupid. No wit or imagination. You have no talent there so try your hand at something else. Your posts in this newsgroup have offered nothing of value to anyone. The cost of one bottle of this "cure" - not just treatment, is far less than what people end up paying for the monthly medication which pharmaceutical companies get rich from. Are the makers of this powder suppose to manufacture, package and deliver it free? There will be those who will be helped whether you attempt to interfere or not. For any who you succeed in dissuading, may it be part of your karma. If anyone out there wants to know more, anyone besides this negative soul that is, please feel free to e-mail me. You can also read about it in Dr. David G. Williams' Alternatives newsletter. Rae >> I know I sound like an infomercial for this product, but I have no >> interest in their company. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > It is just a wonderful opportunity. I just like seeing other benefit from > things like this. >Your posts in this newsgroup have offered nothing of value to anyone. Were you born yesterday? Sounds like it. >The cost of one bottle of this "cure" - not just treatment, is far less than >what people end up paying for the monthly medication which pharmaceutical >companies get rich from. Are the makers of this powder suppose to >manufacture, package and deliver it free? In lieu of having no good research to back up *your* cure claims, it would be a good idea for *you* to offer it for free to those who want to try it. I have done that before here in this newsgroup. >There will be those who will be helped whether you attempt to interfere or >not. For any who you succeed in dissuading, may it be part of your karma. And may the flittings of a thousand butterflies brush back the Bliss Ninny sheen from your "I've found the cure" mentality. > You can also read about it in Dr. >David G. Williams' Alternatives newsletter. Ah, thank you. >>Your posts in this newsgroup have offered nothing of value to anyone. > > Were you born yesterday? Sounds like it. Oh really? I would like to hear from anyone who has gotten their asthma under control or achieved a cure based on his or perhaps it's a her posts here. They enjoy citing a lot of stats and showing off what limited knowledge in this area that they have obtained but WHO has it helped ? >>The cost of one bottle of this "cure" - not just treatment, is far less >>than [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > would be a good idea for *you* to offer it for free to those who want > to try it. I have done that before here in this newsgroup. Why on earth would I do that? I am just another person who had asthma and found a remedy which I was more than happy to pay for and now want to share the info with others who it may help. WHY ARE YOU HERE? I'm not here to promote their product for the sake of helping *them*. I posted here to give people some helpful info. In fact it was another asthma forum which mentioned it which propted me to do more research and then go back to my newsletter from Dr. Williams only to find it was the same one he had written about which I read a year ago and never followed up on. So do you actually have asthma or are you another asthma doctor or drug company rep who doesn't want to hear about alternative therapies because it cuts into your territory and threatens your income and way of life? Boy, look at this people! The establishment medical community and drug companies are going nuts in here ! I read another post by a gentleman who went on and on about how grateful he was for some prescripition drugs that his doctor prescribed and how they saved him and were wonderful, etc., etc.. I Didn't see this type of response to HIS post. Hmm, could it be maybe because it was a prescription DRUG, which required a DOCTOR'S prescription?? Me thinks so... >>There will be those who will be helped whether you attempt to interfere or >>not. For any who you succeed in dissuading, may it be part of your karma. > > And may the flittings of a thousand butterflies brush back the Bliss > Ninny sheen from your "I've found the cure" mentality. ... and may they krap upon your know it all-money hungry "mentality" leaving it to thereafter dry into a fine brown powder and blow away in a gentle wind until it finds it's way to it's ultimate destiny.... >> You can also read about it in Dr. >>David G. Williams' Alternatives newsletter. > > Ah, thank you. you're welcome oh ignorant one! May little grasshopper hop hop away now... >>>The cost of one bottle of this "cure" - not just treatment, is far less >>>than [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Why on earth would I do that? It would show your true sincerity for one thing. Actions speak louder than words. > I am just another person who had asthma and >found a remedy which I was more than happy to pay for and now want to share >the info with others who it may help. You are a person with an anectodal experience, and nothing else. If you think your asthma symptoms have abated for the last two weeks because of this yamoawowee powder, how do you know it is not simply a placebo effect? For all you know, your faith may have made you well, for the time being. >WHY ARE YOU HERE? I am here to learn and to support people. >So do you actually have asthma or are you another asthma doctor or drug >company rep who doesn't want to hear about alternative therapies because it >cuts into your territory and threatens your income and way of life? Actually I'm a chiropractor. Here's a little-known fun factoid; I have been retained as a speaker for a well-known pharma company. I present prevention measures to employees of companies with whom they (the pharma company) and the employers' insurance companies do business. Imagine that; a pharma company paying a chiropractor to speak on non-drug, preventive measures. Now, please tell me how that fits into your theory. >Boy, look at this people! The establishment medical community and drug >companies are going nuts in here ! More like nuts and bolts. You seem to be quite excited though! >I read another post by a gentleman who went on and on about how grateful he >was for some prescripition drugs that his doctor prescribed and how they >saved him and were wonderful, etc., etc.. I Didn't see this type of response >to HIS post. Hmm, could it be maybe because it was a prescription DRUG, >which required a DOCTOR'S prescription?? Me thinks so... Yo Rae, you thinks silly... >>>There will be those who will be helped whether you attempt to interfere or >>>not. For any who you succeed in dissuading, may it be part of your karma. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >it to thereafter dry into a fine brown powder and blow away in a gentle wind >until it finds it's way to it's ultimate destiny.... Is that the same fine brown powder than you have been eating for the past two weeks? >>> You can also read about it in Dr. >>>David G. Williams' Alternatives newsletter. >> >> Ah, thank you. > >you're welcome oh ignorant one! May little grasshopper hop hop away now... You assume much, but thanks again. >>>>The cost of one bottle of this "cure" - not just treatment, is far less >>>>than [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > It would show your true sincerity for one thing. Actions speak louder > than words. Well Mr. Bob, I would like to be a philanthropist and buy a round for the house, but I think anyone coming here to seek help for their asthma can decide whether its worth it to them to buy a bottle. I did buy one for my brother which I'm mailing him. You can lead a horse to water butcha can't make him drink as they say. "The Lord helps them that helps themselves"(par) >> I am just another person who had asthma and >>found a remedy which I was more than happy to pay for and now want to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > placebo effect? For all you know, your faith may have made you well, > for the time being. If you ever had asthma Mr. Bob, you'd know their ain't no such thing as a *placebo effect* in asthma if the person has the physical ailment, that is if you truly have asthma and not merely some type of panic attacks. I've had it since I was 7. You ain't walked in my shoes so don't try to second guess me. I've tried a lot - if not ALL of the other all natural alternatives written about from a long list of expensive vitamin & mineral combinations that are suppose to help, to certain foods and oils, coffee, and herbs. NOTHING else helped. I wasn't fooled by any *placebo* effect with any of them and noticed NO difference. That was why I probably waited so long after reading about this one in Dr. William's Alternatives newsletter to buy it. I was skeptical. I also thought I had to order overseas and just put it off. Finally after my last attack when I felt like I once again came close to death because my rescue inhaler hardly worked at all and i was using it every few minutes with little relief, and got to the point where I gave my husband instructions as to what to do if I went unconscious because I refused to go to the emergency room unless I went unconscious, I determined I didn't want to take the chance of experiencing that kind of suffering any longer. It was a last try, a last alternative, before going back to the doctor and taking that gross pulmicort and accepting what damage it might do. One finally gets to the point where they feel they have to choose one evil over another. No *placebo* at work here. You can't fool a true asthmatic with a placebo effect. >>WHY ARE YOU HERE? > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > More like nuts and bolts. You seem to be quite excited though! Oh I AM. I AM! >>I read another post by a gentleman who went on and on about how grateful >>he [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Yo Rae, you thinks silly... Well I suspect all those doctors that specialized in asthma would probably not like to see asthma go away entirely by a simple "cure". They'd lose a lot of patients and maybe have to change their specialty and maybe go back to school and study another field. And of course I need not mention the drug companies and their profit incentives. But they'd just invent another disease and try to convince people via television that they got that new disease. "Ask you doctor about XXX". >>>>There will be those who will be helped whether you attempt to interfere >>>>or [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Is that the same fine brown powder than you have been eating for the > past two weeks? YES! You almost got the riddle. The butterfly delivers that wonderful brown powder via this forum through your own actions and words and you are thereby made an unwitting aid in helping all those in need by reading these posts. "It's ultimate destiny." "Those who have ears, let them hear" >>>> You can also read about it in Dr. >>>>David G. Williams' Alternatives newsletter. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > You assume much, but thanks again. >>> I am just another person who had asthma and >>>found a remedy which I was more than happy to pay for and now want to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >it since I was 7. You ain't walked in my shoes so don't try to second guess >me. IMO, one should always second-guess a person who proclaims any cure. Perhaps you are not familiar with the true meaning of the word "cure". That is why you are getting so much heat for your proclamations. Most health conditions are managed, at some level on a continuum. Yours is a tale of instant magic, or seemingly so, on its face. You know, their own website does not proclaim a cure. Why should you? >I've tried a lot - if not ALL of the other all natural alternatives written >about from a long list of expensive vitamin & mineral combinations that are [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >this one in Dr. William's Alternatives newsletter to buy it. I was >skeptical. So you understand now that someone who is proclaiming a cure, and adamantly so, is a person who should be viewed with skepticism? >Well I suspect all those doctors that specialized in asthma would probably >not like to see asthma go away entirely by a simple "cure". They'd lose a >lot of patients and maybe have to change their specialty and maybe go back >to school and study another field. That's a good one. With the plethora of chronic and degenerative diseases occurring in our population, there will never, ever, ever, be a shortage of unhealthy people. You should go into the field yourself Rae. Just give National Jewish a call and convince them to begin a study. >"Those who have ears, let them hear" "Those who have eyes, let them see" >>>> I am just another person who had asthma and >>>>found a remedy which I was more than happy to pay for and now want to [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > a tale of instant magic, or seemingly so, on its face. You know, > their own website does not proclaim a cure. Why should you? Good point. That has been my major contention with this. Is she saying that she is no longer taking even the yamoa powder and she has no asthma symptoms? Or is she saying that she has traded the yamoa powder for conventional meds and is controlling it this way (replaced one maintenance regimen with another)? >>>> I am just another person who had asthma and >>>>found a remedy which I was more than happy to pay for and now want to [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > IMO, one should always second-guess a person who proclaims any cure. > Perhaps you are not familiar with the true meaning of the word "cure". Okay, Mr. Bob, let me ask you this: If it *cures* me, (and I have said before I'm not sure if I'll need another bottle yet. I said I thought I might be cured, just to correct you guys....) But if it does cure me as I believe it has, but then does not cure John Doe Jones, for example, then is it a cure or isn't it? Is it not then a *cure* that worked for me, but a cure that did *not* work for John Doe Jones? > That is why you are getting so much heat for your proclamations. Most > health conditions are managed, at some level on a continuum. Yours is > a tale of instant magic, or seemingly so, on its face. You know, > their own website does not proclaim a cure. Why should you? Ahh, so you have been to the website. Maybe you'll give ARoberts the studies citation that he's demanding from me. >>I've tried a lot - if not ALL of the other all natural alternatives >>written [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Rae. Just give National Jewish a call and convince them to begin a > study. Do you think they would?? Do you think Pfizer might fund it for us? >>"Those who have ears, let them hear" > > "Those who have eyes, let them see" >> IMO, one should always second-guess a person who proclaims any cure. >> Perhaps you are not familiar with the true meaning of the word "cure". > >Okay, Mr. Bob, let me ask you this: > If it *cures* me, (and I have said before I'm not sure if I'll need another >bottle yet. I said I thought I might be cured, just to correct you guys....) You also said it was "a cure, not a treatment," which suggests confusion. Is this powder not a treatment to a supposed cure? >But if it does cure me as I believe it has, but then does not cure John Doe >Jones, for example, then is it a cure or isn't it? Is it not then a *cure* >that worked for me, but a cure that did *not* work for John Doe Jones? "Cure" (the noun) suggests that a period of time has transpired since symptoms/measured parameters, etc. have returned to normal range. "Cure" the verb, would be the process. I would say that if you were symptom free for 5 years (as in some cancers, for example), you could be considered cured. Was yomoa powder the cure in your case? You can only guess, but it will not be for 5 years... Say that you have been symptom free until then, OK? So you are out there mowing your yard to stress your system to see what it can take. You go girl. I'm telling you Rae, you may really have a calling here. >> So you understand now that someone who is proclaiming a cure, and >> adamantly so, is a person who should be viewed with skepticism? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Do you think they would?? Do you think Pfizer might fund it for us? This is your baby, remember? > I would say that if you were symptom free for 5 years (as in > some > cancers, for example), you could be considered cured. I must not be cured of asthma then. It's only been a little over two years. You remind me of one of the partners in my family practice group who keeps insisting that I'm only in remission and I'll be back for more asthma meds, and then angrily stomps out of the room. Why he's so p*ssed off that my son and I no longer need asthma medication is beyond me, but perhaps you can explain it. >> I would say that if you were symptom free for 5 years (as in >> some >> cancers, for example), you could be considered cured. >I must not be cured of asthma then. It's only been a little over >two years. You remind me of one of the partners in my family [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >need asthma medication is beyond me, but perhaps you can explain >it. Why he gets upset and stomps out of the room sounds like a personal problem to me. Perhaps he dislikes his authority being challenged. And it probably goes much deeper. Maybe the office is the only place where he as any authority left, and now it too seems to be slipping away... The man definitely needs a vacation. Certainly, 2 years and running is an excellent outcome for you, and I applaud that fact. I also hope and pray that your current challenge follows the same course. However, medically, the term "remission" in the short term is both more accurate and appropriate than the term "cure," IMO. What happens if next year, God forbid, a reinfection occurs, followed by asthma symptoms. Were you ever cured? That's my beef with the word; it's an unrealistic term. I do not use the word myself, unless I'm talkiing about a hickory smoked ham... > What happens if next year, God forbid, a reinfection occurs, > followed [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > unless > I'm talkiing about a hickory smoked ham... If "reinfection" causes asthma symptoms in me at some point down the road, then I guess we'll have to take care of the infection again, won't we? And yes, I will believe I was cured and simply "reinfected". Now, if you're asking what if - without any infection at all - my asthma flares up again, then I was probably just in remission and not really cured. >What a pitifully negative person you are! Or perhaps you work for a >pharmaceutical company? That would explain much. I was wondering how long it would take you to trot out the "pharmaceutical conspiracy". Predictible snake-oil rhetoric. >Hopefully there will be others who will read my post and investigate further >by reading the testimonials of others like me who have been cured and want >to share their blessing and be helped by this wonderful cure. "Testimonial" is another word for advertising hype. It has little substantive meaning, except to the gullible and desperate. >You are in effect, calling me a liar. So be it. That speak volumes about who >you are. I don't believe that it was merely "in effect". Actually, he was speaking volumes about who you are. People who claim cures for incurable diseases should expect to be called liars, and worse. >Your posts in this newsgroup have offered nothing of value to anyone. Well, he certainly hasn't been grandiose enough to promise a cure for an incurable disease. You've got him there. But I'll take his evidence-based postings over your hyperbole any time. > >What a pitifully negative person you are! Or perhaps you work for a >>pharmaceutical company? That would explain much. > > I was wondering how long it would take you to trot out the > "pharmaceutical conspiracy". Oh right. You were sitting there, reading these posts and thinking to yourself: "I wonder just how it will take before she pulls out the 'pharmaceutical conspiracy' ? I will wait and jump in once she does so. I will tell her then what a snake oil salesman she is and then I'll really show her some sarcasm and discredit her so that no one will try that stuff. I'll really let her have it then. She'll be sorry she tangled with us! Just waiting... will she pull it out? Just waiting.... I'll be ready for her ...." Pleeeezzzz > "Testimonial" is another word for advertising hype. It has little > substantive meaning, except to the gullible and desperate. Oh but isn't that what the sellers of pulmicort, flovent, advair, theophylline, etc., makers do when they ply their meds to the gullible and desperate doctors who don't know what else to do with the gullible and desperate asthma patient, glossing over the long term side affects many of which aren't even yet known? So how's your liver ? Oh well, we'll let the guy breathe while we destroy his liver and kidneys and heart muscle and who knows what else. At least they can't say our meds don't work. Everybody's gotta go sometime from something after all. We'll at least allow him breathe while we destroy his organs and we'll make MILLIONS doing it. They can't say we didn't do our job. And to make sure we cover our rear, let's throw some $$$ to those good hearted asthma societies to help us show by their research which we will pay for, just how well we do! >>You are in effect, calling me a liar. So be it. That speak volumes about >>who [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > an incurable disease. You've got him there. But I'll take his > evidence-based postings over your hyperbole any time. oooh that word "cure". Really scares you guys doesn't it? And "all natural", that just puts your shorts in a bunch. Hey, don't worry, you've got a million other pills to push. If asthmatics find a natural cure and don't need you anymore, why they've got an illness for just about everything now days. Seems they develope a new one every couple of months. Depressed more than a day or two? Why you're clinically depressed. You need to take our pill. Fidget too much? Have a hard time concentrating? Why you've got ADS and we have a pill for that. Hey that may not be PMS you're dealing with. We got a new diagnosis for that condition which is far more serious than simple PMS and now there's a new pill for it. Put away that mydol! You need our prescription! oh i could go on, but I've played with you yo-yos long enough today. hop away little grasshopper. hop hop away with you now..... > Oh right. You were sitting there, reading these posts and thinking to > yourself: "I wonder just how it will take before she pulls out the 'pharmaceutical > conspiracy' ? Since that invariably happens when people are peddling their various cure-all--yes. >> "Testimonial" is another word for advertising hype. It has little >> substantive meaning, except to the gullible and desperate. >Oh but isn't that what the sellers of pulmicort, flovent, advair, >theophylline, etc., makers do when they ply their meds to the gullible and >desperate doctors who don't know what else to do with the gullible and >desperate asthma patient, glossing over the long term side affects many of >which aren't even yet known? They can't. It's against the law to make such claims without support. FDA, you know. Or maybe you don't, since your powder doesn't get subjected to any testing in double-blind trials. Every one of the meds that you mentioned have been through multiple clinical trials for safety and efficacy. It's not perfect, but it is superior to a web page underpinned by bark scrapings. Do you have any controlled studies (not testimonials) that support your claims? Let's see them--even one. And since you mentioned the long-term side-effects of meds, how about the side-effects of your powder? Where are the studies that demonstrate its safety and efficacy? >oooh that word "cure". Really scares you guys doesn't it? No, but "disgust" comes to mind when we hear yet again another scammer claim it. >And "all natural", that just puts your shorts in a bunch. "All natural" is one of many misleading marketing terms to confer an undeserved legitimacy upon unproven remedies. Feces is "all natural". What's your daily intake of that? (I already know your output from reading your postings). >> Oh right. You were sitting there, reading these posts and thinking to >> yourself: "I wonder just how it will take before she pulls out the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > They can't. It's against the law to make such claims without support. > FDA, you know. FDA?? Oh now I'm really amused. Everyone knows a great deal of the people running the FDA used to be lobbyists for the drug companies. OR they leave the FDA and go to work as lobbyist for the drug companies. Pleeezzzz Or maybe you don't, since your powder doesn't get > subjected to any testing in double-blind trials. Every one of the meds > that you mentioned have been through multiple clinical trials for > safety and efficacy. It's not perfect, You're darn right it's "not perfect". ITS KILLING PEOPLE! Just a little slower is all. but it is superior to a web > page underpinned by bark scrapings. "bark scrapings"? In case you did not know it oh wise one, that's how ASPIRIN was discovered. Willow tree bark to be exact. They now make it synthetically and doctors are now telling people to take one a day. Oh and since we're on the subject, wasn't penicillen discovered from naturally occurring mold? grow up and smell the coffee bean grasshopper > Do you have any controlled studies (not testimonials) that support your > claims? Excuse me once again - (boy you really need to read my posts slower perhaps) - *I* don't have any studies. *I* don't work for them. BUT, wait a second there ... let me finish before your stubby little fingers go to town typing... if you go to their web site, and click around there, they do have studies and statistics like you are talking about. But even the studies your drug companies do mean VERY little. They hide and suppress facts that the public should know about until so many people are keeling over with heart attacks, strokes, liver disease, kidney damage and other problems, etc., that it finally leaks out into the news media and THEN the FDA pretends to do their job and steps in momentarily to give them a second chance to try it again. Do the words Viox and Clareden(sp) sound familiar??? Let's see them--even one. And since you mentioned the > long-term side-effects of meds, how about the side-effects of your > powder? Where are the studies that demonstrate its safety and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > No, but "disgust" comes to mind when we hear yet again another scammer > claim it. Well I suppose you just need to actually *have asthma* a while and then lets see how "disgusted" you get. You'd be buying that powder quicker than I can type "you phonie phonie phonie". You wouldn't be taking advair or flovent or the rest of that harmful krapola until you tried the *all natural* cure that nature provided and saw for yourself if it helped because you probably KNOW how bad those meds are whereas this powder has no harmful side affects. Once again, little grasshopper better be careful that karma doesn't give you the chance to have that little experience.... >>And "all natural", that just puts your shorts in a bunch. > > "All natural" is one of many misleading marketing terms to confer an > undeserved legitimacy upon unproven remedies. Oh, I guess that the "tree bark" you referred to so sarcastically was made by Pfizer or Merk? Gee and here all this time, I thought God made the trees... silly me. Thanks for clearing that up. Maybe I should buy some of their stock? It's trading pretty low right now isn't it? > Feces is "all natural". What's your daily intake of that? (I already > know your output from reading your postings). Well feces of people taking that krapola medicine you push is probably NOT all natural.... That's what you're posting here. Hope your posts don't produce any harmful long term side affects. Gee maybe we shouldn't be reading your posts. BEWARE people: CAUTION: FEDERAL LAW PROHIBITS DISPENSING WITHOUT PRESCRIPTION! SIDE EFFECTS MAY INCLUDE: "blah blah blah blah blah" (to be spoken in a low monatone hushed voice, hoping no one will actually listen...) Oh and by the way, in case you're curious... I FEEL GREAT today. Life is great. I'm breathing like a normal person. Don't need that inhaler anymore for the first time ever. And I can't wait to get out there and exercise among all the pollen and grass! I am a very very happy and thankful person. And I can vacuum and dust and don't need a mask. Life is SO good. (I'm sure you're genuinly happy for me and that you just forgot to inquire as to how I was feeling today. That's okay. I know you're very busy person with pushing your drugs and research and all) Post the citation. > Post the citation. Excuse me? Did you mean: "Would you *please* post the citation? or some such similiar courteous request? Didn't anyone every teach you to ask for things nicely when you were a child and not demand them in such a manner? Perhaps if you did, I would go and find it and bring it to you grasshopper. Now go hop hop away and learn some manners. Otherwise you will just have to go to that big bad website all by yourself and find it alone. >> Post the citation. > > Excuse me? Did you mean: "Would you *please* post the citation? or some > such similiar courteous request? Of course. The only reason that you have not supported your grand claim of a cure for asthma is that I have not been sufficiently deferential. You're the one who is trying to convince people. It's up to you if you want to support your own claims. People will sort it out. Based on your reception here, many already have. >>> Post the citation. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You're the one who is trying to convince people. It's up to you if you > want to support your own claims. I am not trying to convince anyone. A word to the wise.... People will read it and make their choice. And I'm surely not trying to convince you. I'm just enjoying the exchange is all. Now let's go back to lesson 1: When you want something, it is good manners to *ask*, not demand and the word *please* is customarily used when making a request in *polite society*. So again I would say, ask nicely and I will do so. Sorry but I don't normally respond to rudeness or demands made in such tones in a fashion such as you might desire... People will sort it out. Based on your > reception here, many already have. My reception received here from the three of you, has not been from asthma sufferers. It has been from those of you with a little bit of knowledge on a subject which you really can't relate to unless you've been there. "A little bit of knowledge can be a very dangerous thing." who said that? > People will sort it out. Based on your >> reception here, many already have. > > My reception received here from the three of you, has not been from asthma > sufferers. It has been from those of you with a little bit of knowledge on > a subject which you really can't relate to unless you've been there. Why do you assume (you know what they say about that) that I don't have asthma? I do. A little bit of knowledge indeed... I beg your pardon then. And what medication are you on may I ask? >> People will sort it out. Based on your >>> reception here, many already have. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Why do you assume (you know what they say about that) that I don't have > asthma? I do. A little bit of knowledge indeed... >I beg your pardon then. And what medication are you on may I ask? Advair 500/50 and prednisone more often than I would like... Advair! Goodness. You must have read about the dangers of advair then. My brother takes that with same dosage and theophylline. I just visited him recently before I found the yomoa. He doesn't have the asthma attacks anymore and because of that he and his wife are quite happy with the results. He almost died twice before they realized he had asthma and not emphsema which his doctor misdiagnosed him with. During his last episode before that was discovered, he had to be put on a respirator or would have died. Then another doctor who was on call relieving his regular doctor realized he had been misdiagnosed and did not have emphesema but had asthma and took him off the drugs for emphesema and put him on the asthma drugs. So because life was so horrible before these drugs, he's quite satisfied with his quality of life now in comparison. But he looked in bad shape otherwise to me. His lower abdomen is swollen out and looks huge and he can't do much without sitting down to catch his breath. I also noticed he had a red rash on his chest. I'm going to send him the yamoa but not sure what good it will do since he's on the meds and will probably be reluctant to stop them to give the yamoa a try. And of course his doctor would most definately advise against it. I 've heard once you're on advair, that its dangerous to just stop. Not sure how a person would safely go about getting off of that stuff to see if the yamoa would help them. I think I understand your anger a little better now ARoberts. They say at the base of all anger is fear. You are no doubt concerned to say the least about taking this drug are you not? >>I beg your pardon then. And what medication are you on may I ask? > > Advair 500/50 and prednisone more often than I would like... > Advair! Goodness. You must have read about the dangers of advair then. > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >> >> Advair 500/50 and prednisone more often than I would like... > Advair! Goodness. You must have read about the dangers of advair then. Yes. Fortunately, I have not experienced the arrythmias that have been associated with Advair. <snip> > But he looked in bad shape otherwise to me. His lower abdomen is swollen > out and looks huge and he can't do much without sitting down to catch his [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > person would safely go about getting off of that stuff to see if the yamoa > would help them. I believe that is a concern with anyone who is taking medications (or herbal preparations): how will they interact? That is one of the reasons that I request (well, it wasn't a particularly gracious 'request' last time, was it?) to see if clinical trials are extant for any remedy. These will include those contraindications and interactions. > I think I understand your anger a little better now ARoberts. They say at > the base of all anger is fear. You are no doubt concerned to say the least > about taking this drug are you not? Of course I don't like taking any medication. I was one of those people who wouldn't even take an aspirin for a headache until I got adult-onset asthma about 10 years ago. That, however, is not the reason for the vituperative reaction. If you have lurked here for any time at all, then you have witnessed an endless procession of snake-oil MLMers. We've had echinacia, ginseng, noni juice, breathing lessions, junkets to salt mine caves, cell salts and more. Most of these offer a cure from some arcane recipe or remote location that only the indigenous tribesmen are aware of, and will part with it for a fee. To my knowledge, you had never posted to this group before, and when you did, it sounded pretty much like what we were used to: a breathlessly excited claim of a cure. It sounded like a sales pitch. That didn't stop me from looking at the webstite that you linked to. It looked pretty much the same as others who have offered empty promises before: long on personal stories, and with no controlled studies. That usually does it for me. Anyone who has read my previous postings knows that I am no fan of pharmaceutical companies. I know someone who works for a one of the largest pharmas (who will remain unnamed, because I don't need the litigation), and he said that it is their unwritten business model to prioritize research for "treatable chronic" over cures. This is obviously much more profitable, and I am sure that it's a model that is endemic to the entire industry. That said, I have even more skepticism for supplement/herbal guys. Not because they have any less character than the pharmaceutical houses (they don't). They are just not forced into a modicum of responsibility and ethics by a system of oversight, as are the pharmas. It's a case of a little bit of informed consent over no information at all. If, as you say, you have no financial interest in the company and make no revenues at all from the substance, and are merely a grateful consumer of it, then I'm glad that you were able to get relief. I wasn't able to get any more information about yamoa powder (beyond the same blurb provided by NorthShoreCEO) on any websites other than those who are selling the product--hardly objective. I am always intrigued by new approaches to asthma, and look forward to seeing yamoa explored further--under more controlled studies. In repsonse to my attempt at semi-humorous response to her post that is remarkably similar to 1000 obvious scams that have previously been posted here Rae called me (in just the third post to the thread): > pitiful negative a pharmaceutical company worker > awkward stupid [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > interfering > bad karma And called all of my posts to this group valueless. Then she wondered why others reacted to her in a negative fashion. Looks like I picked the right weekend to go away for a few days. Signature00doc I am soooo disapointed in your comments to people trying to find alternatives to their health problems. Granted the reponses were not much better. I have had asthma for over 40 years. I have taken the "shots", Advair, Maxair, Allegra, Accolate. They have not "cured" me either. Just emptied my money pocket. I am tired of taking drugs the rest of my life with no improvement. So I am trying other alternatives. I am finding much help in the other alternatives more than I have in the 40 years of taking prescription drugs. So Please let us find out for ourselves, what works and what doesn't. all the testing doesn't seem to make the drugs any better than the alternatives. Infact, when you hear the side effects of the drugs on the TV commericals, I would rather be sick. >> I know I sound like an infomercial for this product, but I have no >> interest in their company. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >It is just a wonderful opportunity. I just like seeing other benefit >from things like this. I am soooo disapointed in your comments to people trying to find alternatives to their health problems. Granted the reponses were not much better. I have had asthma for over 40 years. I have taken the "shots", Advair, Maxair, Allegra, Accolate. They have not "cured" me either. Just emptied my money pocket. I am tired of taking drugs the rest of my life with no improvement. So I am trying other alternatives. I am finding much help in the other alternatives more than I have in the 40 years of taking prescription drugs. So Please let us find out for ourselves, what works and what doesn't. all the testing doesn't seem to make the drugs any better than the alternatives. Infact, when you hear the side effects of the drugs on the TV commericals, I would rather be sick. >> I know I sound like an infomercial for this product, but I have no >> interest in their company. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >It is just a wonderful opportunity. I just like seeing other benefit >from things like this. >I heard through an alternative newsletter about an amazing all natural >asthma cure. I found it locally at an alternative health pharmacy here >where I live. <rest of advertising hype masquerading as sincerity snipped> > I hope this helps someone. > > Rae And that someone would be you and your income. >I heard through an alternative newsletter about an amazing all natural >asthma cure. I found it locally at an alternative health pharmacy here where >I live. Which newsletter? Just wondering. >For the first time since I cannot remember, YEARS, I was able to walk my dog >up hills etc., without using my rescue inhaler. I came home from our walk so >excited the last couple of days. Still didn't need the inhaler after I got >home. Were you wagging your tail and panting too? >I cannot say enough about this wonderful product. They say most people only >have to use one bottle. It last 30 days. Some people may need a 2nd . I do >not know yet if I'll need a follow up bottle or not, but at day 12, I am >ecstatic! Are you sure that it's not Ecstacy you've gotten into? >I read again about this >amazing powder from Ghana. I got the powder from a local health pharmacy. >Needless to say, I will NOT be going on medication. Lots of good things coming out of Ghana these days, such as Kejetia Logic. So this is no surprise really... http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/fun/kejetia/ > I heard through an alternative newsletter about an amazing all natural > asthma cure. I found it locally at an alternative health pharmacy here where > I live. There's an alternative pharmacy on the street corner near where I live too. I asked for some yamoa, at first he looked a bit puzzled but then he gave me some white powder and told me it was the best yamoa going in town. When I got home I sprinked all of the powder on the buttocks. The effects were truly remarkable! Om shanti. > It is amazing. Most definately! The buttocks have been completely numb for the last twelve hours! I believe this is due to a massive concentration of kirlian positronic energies forming a swirling vortex of power in the buttocks! At last the ley-lines have been concentrated! > I am on day 12 of taking this powder. Respect due. Truly you must now be approaching the mandalic center of individuation that many have sought but few have found. The hour of their arrival is drawing near! Already there have been markings seen in the cornfields near the stone circles in the ancient places of this planet. Clearly the yamoa should be used as an offering when contact is made. > a little grapefruit juice and 1/4 teaspoon at night. (I didn't want to take > it with honey as they suggest since I watch my weight and sugar intake.) An admirable goal that will facilitate your acceptance into their craft. For did not the atlanteans speak of this yamoa, or "yam-ooooooo-aaaahhhhhhhh" as it was known in the tongue of the ancients? > lots of other great stuff.... > The other thing this amazing ALL NATURAL powder The person I bought my yamoa from assured me it was all natural. He seemed surprised when I asked for 8 ounces but when I explained that it was for application to the buttocks it was clear to him that a quarter gram would not go very far. In the spirit of true charity he even returned one of my currency notes to me, declaring that I would be needing it! > I cannot say enough about this wonderful product. They say most people only > have to use one bottle. It last 30 days. Some people may need a 2nd . I do > not know yet if I'll need a follow up bottle or not, but at day 12, I am > ecstatic! Clearly I shall need to perform a discplined meditation to prepare for day 30. Humankind will then take it's rightful place in the stars. Meantimes continue to apply the yamoa to the buttocks in order to raise your inner child to crystal consciousness! Never forget the remarkable power of the buttocks! > I hope this helps someone. I can only thank you giving me this knowledge! -- gumbo Oh gumbo, you rascal you! >> I heard through an alternative newsletter about an amazing all natural >> asthma cure. I found it locally at an alternative health pharmacy here [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > -- gumbo Sounds like it may be more helpful for those who have hay fever related asthma. http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/uknews/news20020813.shtml#5 Mark Chadbourn reports on a new treatment for hay fever, called Yamoa, derived from the ground-up bark of West African gum trees. Early statistics from a study at the Chiron Clinic, Harley Street, London, show that 48 per cent of Yamoa users claim they have been completely cured of hay fever, while a third believe they've seen marked improvement. The naturally-derived product also appears to relieve the symptoms of asthma, with nearly one-third of subjects suffering from asthma being completely cured and 41 per cent reporting a marked improvement. Dr Nyjon Eccles, leading the trials, said, 'Yamoa seems to alter the immune system so the patient is no longer sensitive to pollen triggers. Patients need to take it for only a two month period, never again. Finally, some helpful input! Thank you! Just came in from cutting the grass. It's about 98 degrees out there and very humid. Came in to cool off a few minutes before continuing. Used to be, I would be sucking on my inhaler for dear life about now but I find I have no need for it. I'm still blown away by this product. (Sorry ARoberts. I know how that erks you) That same company (yomoapowder, that is) has a product that the old grandmother also passed down to her grandson called Eczmend. I don't have eczema but since I have really sensitive skin I think I'll get that product too. God bless that old shaman lady. > Sounds like it may be more helpful for those who have hay fever related > asthma. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > patient is no longer sensitive to pollen triggers. Patients need to take > it for only a two month period, never again. > Sounds like it may be more helpful for those who have hay fever > related asthma. > http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/uknews/news20020813.shtml#5 If you follow this link you find that the text you posted comes from a newspaper called the _Daily Mail_, not from the _British Medical Journal_ as the domain name suggests. If we go to the _Daily Mail_ website and search for "yamoa," we found a story from 13 August 2002: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/womenfamily.html?in_articl e_id=133144&in_page_id=1799 To me the key paragraph is Early statistics from a study by Dr Nyjon Eccles and nutritional therapist Althea Myrie at Harley Street's Chiron Clinic show that 48 per cent of Yamoa users claim they have been completely cured of hay fever, and a third believe they've seen a marked improvement. The phrase "completely cured" should raise a red flag in the mind of any informed reader. "users claim" doesn't sound like scientific evidence to me. Where are the hard numeric spirometry data? But let's go to PubMed and see if Eccles' research was published. Aha, there are no hits for "yamoa" anywhere in all of PubMed! Moral: asthma sufferers, you don't have to be a sucker for the crap that herbal remedy hucksters publish. The WWW has given you the power to check out these claims for yourself. SignatureAlison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid. (650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ Notions and scruples were like spilt needles, making one afraid of treading, or sitting down, or even eating. -- George Eliot Neither do we have to be suckers for the "crap" the drug companies put out there with their fixed studies THEY pay for to pass FDA approval. Like let's pick a new one this time, .... oh I don't know, how bout: Statin drugs for example.... which deplete the body of CQ10 and KILL people! Betcha you'd find a ton of research backing up those drugs at your PubMed site you think is so marvelous and reliable. Do they mention they're being sued right now to force them to include CQ10 in their drugs to protect the lives of the poor "suckers" who take their drugs? You're clueless Alison Chaiken. Or is your real name Alison Pfizer??? >> Sounds like it may be more helpful for those who have hay fever >> related asthma. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > that herbal remedy hucksters publish. The WWW has given you the power > to check out these claims for yourself. > Neither do we have to be suckers for the "crap" the drug companies > put out there with their fixed studies THEY pay for to pass FDA [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Statin drugs for example.... which deplete the body of CQ10 and KILL > people! OK - what studies are you aware of that showed increased mortality from statins? There were one or two early ones that showe dincreaased non-cardiac mortality and/or increased suicide risk but thhose results were nto repeated on further study. There have been tons of studies done on statins in differnet patient populations and with very few exceptions they have uniformly shown improved survival (or other end points). > Betcha you'd find a ton of research backing up those drugs at > your PubMed site you think is so marvelous and reliable. Do they [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > their > drugs? You can sue for anything. Let us know how it comes out. If it turns out that adding Co-Q makes the drugs safer or more effective the I would be glad to know it. However, even if this turns out to be the case it still does not detract from the fact that there is overhwelming evidence of improved health in every population ever studied (including people with normal cholesterol levels). > You're clueless Alison Chaiken. Or is your real name Alison > Pfizer??? We'll wait and see if you actually provide any proof before making a decision is about who the clueless one is. Signature00doc I followed the link and it's the news section of the BMJ. It was newsworthy to them, even if it isn't to some of you. Or did you think I trumped up the domain? Sheesh. >> Sounds like it may be more helpful for those who have hay >> fever [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > the power > to check out these claims for yourself. > I followed the link and it's the news section of the BMJ. It was > newsworthy to them, even if it isn't to some of you. I'm not sure why the BMJ had this summary on their web site, but the actual content was a rather poor and dated article from the _Daily Mail_. I'm not slamming you for your posting, just urging you to think critically. You've learned to sceptically assess the views of medical professionals on antibitic therapy. Now extend that scepticism to the rest of the medical literature, which has lots of crap, just like the rest of scientific publishing. This mediocrity is not because doctors or scientists are bad people mostly; it's just that not everyone is smart, creative or honestly self-appraising. > Or did you think I trumped up the domain? Of course not. I wouldn't bother to reply to someone whose postings I don't take seriously. SignatureAlison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid. (650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ Notions and scruples were like spilt needles, making one afraid of treading, or sitting down, or even eating. -- George Eliot > I'm not sure why the BMJ had this summary on their web site, > but the > actual content was a rather poor and dated article from the > _Daily > Mail_. As I said before.....apparently the BMJ found this newsworthy. I'm not slamming you for your posting, just urging you to > think critically. You've learned to sceptically assess the > views of > medical professionals on antibitic therapy. I have? Please explain what you mean by this. I was open to the views of medical professionals on antibiotic therapy when I found that more than one study had been done to support Dr. Hahn's findings. It was the rest of you, as I recall, who called the theory snake oil, put into question Dr. Hahn's ethics, and called Jim Quinlan an array of names. Some of you have come around, but my position has been steadfast because I'm not the one with the quick kneejerk response here. Thank God. Had I undergone CHOP-R therapy for Non-Hodgkins lymphoma WITH the asthma and constant illnesses I had for 33 years, I'm sure they would have had to reduce a lot of the chemo meds and rituxan, making it far less effective. Now extend that > scepticism to the rest of the medical literature, which has > lots of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > that not everyone is smart, creative or honestly > self-appraising. I'm not skeptical, I'm curious. Someone mentions something here or elsewhere and I try to find out as much as possible about it. And now I'm really curious about what you've written here. After years of reading your posts indicating that if something can't be found in a peer reviewed medical journal it must be snake oil, you're writing this? You can't have it both ways, I don't think. You can't set as the standard of validity, publication in a peer reviewed medical journal, and then write what you've written above. The fact is, a doctor is conducting the trial and it looks promising. BMJ picked it up and put it in their news section. It's possible the original poster had asthma that was primarily related to hay fever, which is why it cleared her (?) asthma. She doesn't appear to be selling anything. Why everyone always has to jump on people like this (with few exceptions - like those selling ionizers) is beyond me, but then, I know certain supplements work and many others here don't believe that because they've never done the research, they've just had their typical skeptical knee jerk response and called such postings snake oil. There's a pathologist at the University of MD School of Medicine who has patented something that has been shown to shrink tumors, and enhance chemo meds, while lessening its ill effects. He can't get funding for large human trials here, just as Dr. Hahn has gotten little funding for large scale trials. A study was done in Helsinki on breast cancer patients with great results. You'll find things in Medscape about this, but mostly written by the pathologist himself, and a few others who have been interested. That's the way these things go. The initial researcher first publishes something about his findings and hopes that someone will challenge him or her and conduct their own study. That's good science. They want their theory to either be dispelled or validated - by several others. This appears to be a relatively new product. Time will tell if it can help hay fever sufferers, but it appears to have helped Rae. If, in time, others conduct studies that prove out this initial study, I know there will be no apologies from any of you - already having been on the receiving end of the pitbull attacks myself. Here's a question I've had for some time. Are all of you atheists, or just some of you? I wrote: > > You've learned to sceptically assess the views of medical > > professionals on antibitic therapy. > I have? Please explain what you mean by this. You've clearly learned to think for yourself about medical questions. Good for you! > I'm not skeptical, I'm curious. Someone mentions something here > or elsewhere and I try to find out as much as possible about it. Again, I congratulate you. We are all in charge of our own medical care. I have little sympathy with people who accept poor treatment without complaint. I have read your postings about antibiotic therapy with interest and have often forwarded them to others who don't read the newsgroup. > After years of reading your posts indicating that if something can't > be found in a peer reviewed medical journal it must be snake oil, > you're writing this? Having a study published in a peer-reviewer journal is a necessary but not sufficient condition for being taken seriously. A lot of stuff that's wrong or just mediocre still gets through the filters. That's because scientists and doctors are human. I hope that if I received proposals and papers to review that had the authors' names and institutions blanked out that I would write the same reviews, but I'll never know. > The fact is, a doctor is conducting the trial and it looks > promising. A doctor who has never published a paper in a refereed journal was working on a yamoa trial a few years ago (2002). The trial apparently involved asking patients if they thought yamoa was improving their asthma. As far as I could tell, there were no quantitative measurements and no placebo controls. You are easily smart enough, Maureen, to see that this study is BS. I saw nothing on the BMJ's website to indicate approval of this study. > She doesn't appear to be selling anything. Why everyone always has > to jump on people like this I agree that we as a group have a tendency to be too harsh on naive people who push alternative therapies. We are all aggrieved by hucksters who are trying to make money on the sick and sometimes we mistake ill-informed newbies for salespeople. Having your loved ones be dangerously ill can make you lose your sense of humor and limit your tendency to give new people the benefit of the doubt. > Are all of you atheists, or just some of you? Scientists have the same wide spectrum of beliefs as the rest of the population, from evangelical to atheist. Due to the international nature of science, I have known colleagues in every conceivable religion. Working with a profoundly diverse group of people is one of the great joys of a technical career. SignatureAlison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid. (650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ Notions and scruples were like spilt needles, making one afraid of treading, or sitting down, or even eating. -- George Eliot > I'm not skeptical, I'm curious. Someone mentions something > here > or elsewhere and I try to find out as much as possible about > it. >Again, I congratulate you. We are all in charge of our own >medical [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >read >the newsgroup. NOW you do. It wasn't that long ago, however, that you joined the pile on here when some of us posted interest and/or information about Dr. Hahn and antibiotic therapy. That doesn't mean I've recinded my offer via private email to help anyone you know, by the way. I'm just pointing out that you've changed your mind about the antibiotics and shouldn't be so quick to jump on what some other doctor is doing, no matter how simplistic his study is. > Having a study published in a peer-reviewer journal is a > necessary but > not sufficient condition for being taken seriously. A lot of > stuff > that's wrong or just mediocre still gets through the filters. I'll never take medical journals as gospel, I merely see them as one tool to use in guiding my own health care. Just as there are plenty of studies in them with findings that are questionable, there's plenty to be learned outside those journals and beyond what our traditional doctors practice. >> The fact is, a doctor is conducting the trial and it looks >> promising. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > BMJ's > website to indicate approval of this study. Actually, I see much more b.s. here. BMJ thought the article was noteworthy and they published it as news. Until some other doctor finds interest, this may be all we see on this. And, yes, it's rather crude in terms of a study, but this is probably a doctor much like Dr. Hahn was twenty years ago, who is more of a practitioner than researcher. By the way, why do you insist on using my first name here when I never sign my name to my posts? >> She doesn't appear to be selling anything. Why everyone >> always has [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > naive > people who push alternative therapies. She wasn't pushing, she was posting, and "too harsh" is a gross understatement. We are all aggrieved by > hucksters who are trying to make money on the sick and > sometimes we [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > limit > your tendency to give new people the benefit of the doubt. Who do you really think came off worst in this thread? Hint: It wasn't Rae. >> Are all of you atheists, or just some of you? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > one of > the great joys of a technical career. You misunderstood the question. I meant those of you who respond the way you do in threads like this. >> She doesn't appear to be selling anything. Why everyone always has >> to jump on people like this > > I agree that we as a group have a tendency to be too harsh on naive > people who push alternative therapies. I think you overstate this. I don't think that posters who post what appear to be sincere posts about alternative therapies meet with much if any hostility. Skepticism - sure, but not so much hostility. What drew fire to Rae's post was the "Hey I tried this and it cured me - go here and buy some" type of post she made. One of the cardinal rules of netiquette is to either lurk for a while on a new group or accept the flames you get when you fail to do so and break some local group rule. The group here does not like scam artists selling cures and so they mock and hassle them when they appear. She should have known that before making the post. She apparently didn't and even that is OK. The big problem (the one that has drawn the hostility) is that instead of just giving an "Oopsie!" and apologizing for posting what appears to be an unwelcome post she has responded with hostlity. Really, she took what started as playful chiding and was the first to escalate things to overt insults, accusations, and name calling so she really has no one to blame but herself because it rained back on her. Signature00doc > Really, she took what started as playful chiding and was the > first to escalate things to overt insults, accusations, and > name calling so she really has no one to blame but herself > because it rained back on her. I'm at a loss as to why those of you who do this kind of thing really feel it's coming across as "teasing" or "playful chiding", when it's not. And did it remain between the two of you - or was it an excuse for the typical pile on? For all the spammers and scammers who have been here before (and I don't believe Rae is one of them), I find them far less offensive than what I see here by the "regulars". I know some of you are better people than you exhibit here. At least I think you are. >> Really, she took what started as playful chiding and was the >> first to escalate things to overt insults, accusations, and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > really feel it's coming across as "teasing" or "playful chiding", > when it's not. Well - to be accurate - I said "semi-humorous". It was meant to be insulting to a scammer and embarrassing to someone naive enough to post it sincerely. > And did it remain between the two of you - or was > it an excuse for the typical pile on? Since I poste dit to a public forum there was never any chance or intent for it to remain between the two of us. In defense of everyone else the "piling on" only started after she initiated the flaming so it is not really clear to me what the others were reacting to. > I'm at a loss as to why those of you who do this kind of thing > really feel it's coming across as "teasing" or "playful chiding", [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I know some of you are better people than you exhibit here. At > least I think you are. I agree that I personally would have liked for a few polite objections to have been expressed or have her just ignored or even for the playful banter to have continued (which from what I have seen is the most effective way to deal with scammers - they just don't know how to respond). However, considering that Rae was the first to initiate the full blown name calling and personal attacks I'm really not sure why you are seeing her as such the vicitm. At worst she only got what she first dished out (and then continued to dish out). Signature00doc Well it failed. It was not embarrasing. You say I escalated things? Had I not defended myself against your attack, anyone reading it might confuse my silence with an admission to your charges. I think you can dish it out but just don't like taking it. You call me an insincere shill, I call you a Pfizer rep. tit for tat as they say. nuff said to u 00Doc. > It was meant to be insulting to a scammer and embarrassing to someone > naive enough to post it sincerely. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > seeing her as such the vicitm. At worst she only got what she first dished > out (and then continued to dish out). > Well it failed. It was not embarrasing. If you say so. Perhaps it should have been. > You say I escalated things? Yes. > Had I not defended myself against your attack, anyone reading it > might confuse my silence with an admission to your charges. You could have responded in kind or you could have just responded in a civil manner. Instead you chose to hurl insults and make accusations. So, yes, you needlessly escalated things. > I think > you can dish it out but just don't like taking it. So far only one of us has appeared to be upset and resorted to name calling. > You call me an > insincere shill, I call you a Pfizer rep. tit for tat as they say. I never said you were an insincere shill. I said that your first post appeared that way. It did and there is a difference. FWIW I have little doubt about your sincerity. You can call me anything you want. Since I have not propounded any specific drug treatment it is a little comical for you to say I am a pharmaceutical rep. I am curious about why you chose Pfizer. The only respiratory product they make is Spiriva, which is not used much in asthma (it is more of an emphysema drug). Glaxo would have been a much better choice. > nuff said to u 00Doc. OK. I hope your asthma continues to improve and you enjoy a long period of excellent health. I really do. Signature00doc >>> She doesn't appear to be selling anything. Why everyone always has >>> to jump on people like this [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Really, she took what started as playful chiding and was the first to > escalate things I did not take it as "playful chiding" when I was in effect being called a liar and a shill for the company. I came here naively believing that this forum might be attracting people who want help with their asthma. I think most people who find something that helps them with something they have suffered with a long time, just naturally wants to pass on the info. Although there are exceptions such as one lady online who wants $20 to pass on her discovery via a download. She wouldn't even answer email to give a hint about the nature of her treatment or cure. I was insulted and reacted in kind. But instead you think I should have said "oopsie? I'm sorry" for expressing my opinion and posting my story? I realize I'm new to this forum but I thought we still had free speech in this country. Perhaps if you had responded with your skepticism in a less sarcastic way which did not in effect accuse me of false sincerity and lying, then I would not have reacted the way I did. I was not angry just a little surprised and chose to defend myself. Later, it became rather amusing to me. I'm not upset. I had my say and so did you and the others. I feel good that at least some people here are open minded. And I do hope ARoberts will at some point be able to at least give this stuff a try since he's on advair and I wish everyone here with asthma well regardless of what has been said. Rae > 00doc >Here's a question I've had for some time. Are all of you >atheists, or just some of you? Faith is underrated, IMO. Several weeks ago, a female patient in her early 60's returned to my office claiming that she had been "healed" by an itinerate preacher who travels around the country "healing" people in various churches. You've probably seen these guys or people like them on T.V. It always seems like such a sham to me. But... I had been working on her frozen shoulder, which can take months of effort, both passive and active, to work through. Well, she came in for her appointment recently and demonstrated an incredible improvement in range of motion, with no pain (performed with a big smile). Was she cured? Was she healed? Is she a Kook? She was measurably better, both objectively and subjectively. I scratched my head and was happy for her. The man said, among other things, "Your faith has made you well." >>Here's a question I've had for some time. Are all of you >>atheists, or just some of you? [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > The man said, among other things, "Your faith has made you > well." Maybe if Rae was a patient of yours you would have been happy for her, too. ;-) I asked the question because atheists are the one group I can spot a mile away, due to their cynical, dour, negative, defensive, smartass natures. I can't imagine why I confused some of you for that lot, but I did. Maybe some of you have been here too long if it's affecting your ability to respond without......all of THIS? >>>Here's a question I've had for some time. Are all of you >>>atheists, or just some of you? [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >Maybe if Rae was a patient of yours you would have been happy for >her, too. ;-) Certainly. But if a stranger walked in my door all excited, telling me that they have been cured for two weeks from a chronic condition and showed me this powder from Ghana, I would respond the same way I did to Rae. I would joke with her, and see what her response would be, and then proceed from there. There's nothing wrong with throwing down the gauntlet to see what people are made of, especially if they come off the wall with wild proclamations. >I asked the question because atheists are the one group I can >spot a mile away, due to their cynical, dour, negative, >defensive, smartass natures. I can't imagine why I confused some >of you for that lot, but I did. Some of the most bigoted, judgmental and dangerous people on this earth are not atheists, and some of the greatest smartasses I know are not atheists. Damn it... > Some of the most bigoted, judgmental and dangerous people on > this > earth are not atheists, and some of the greatest smartasses I > know are > not atheists. Damn it... Can you upload a few of them for me? I'd really like the opportunity to change my mind about this. It doesn't help that I live in a town with one of the nations biggest PITA atheists. >> Some of the most bigoted, judgmental and dangerous people on >> this [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >opportunity to change my mind about this. It doesn't help that I >live in a town with one of the nations biggest PITA atheists. Here's one who really hams it up... http://www.n101.com/HealthNotes/HN/Food_Guide/Pita_Bread.jpg If this individual is dyslexic, certainly he/she believes in Dog... http://www.dogsinthenews.com/issues/0105/pictures/tricks.gif >>Can you upload a few of them for me? I'd really like the >>opportunity to change my mind about this. It doesn't help that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Dog... > http://www.dogsinthenews.com/issues/0105/pictures/tricks.gif You're a nut, Bob. Just like my chiropractor. Must be something you learn in school.....lol. >Certainly. But if a stranger walked in my door all excited, telling >me that they have been cured for two weeks from a chronic condition >and showed me this powder from Ghana, I would respond the same way I >did to Rae. I would joke with her, and see what her response would >be, and then proceed from there. >There's nothing wrong with throwing down the gauntlet to see what >people are made of, especially if they come off the wall with wild >proclamations. >>I asked the question because atheists are the one group I can >>spot a mile away, due to their cynical, dour, negative, >>defensive, smartass natures. I can't imagine why I confused some >>of you for that lot, but I did. |
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