Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / May 2005
Infectious Chlamydia Often Present in Lungs of Asthmatic Children
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NorthShoreCEO - 30 May 2005 13:11 GMT http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/505229
Infectious Chlamydia Often Present in Lungs of Asthmatic Children
By Megan Rauscher
NEW YORK (Reuters Health) May 20 - Viable Chlamydia pneumoniae organisms are frequently present in bronchial lavage fluid from children with asthma and other respiratory disorders, a new study shows.
"We were surprised by the finding that 54% of children with various chronic respiratory diseases harbored Chlamydia in their lungs as determined by polymerase chain reaction (PCR)," Dr. Wilmore C. Webley from the University of Massachusetts in Amherst, told Reuters Heath.
"More importantly, this study shows for the first time that these organisms are infectious," he said, noting that 31% of all Chlamydia positive samples by PCR grew in culture on a macrophage cell substrate.
"This is significant, since the youngest patient with viable Chlamydia was 6 months old, suggesting that these organisms can infect early in life at a time when the infant's immune response is not well developed and can then persist for long periods in the lungs."
Of the 70 children who participated in the study, 42 had asthma whereas 28 had various respiratory disorders including aspiration bronchitis, airway anomalies, gastroesophageal reflux disease, cystic fibrosis, and recurrent pneumonia of unknown etiology.
Forty percent of PCR-positive samples and 20% of culture-positive samples were from children with asthma. According to the investigators, there was a strong correlation between lavage culture positivity for Chlamydia and elevated total IgE levels. "[This] implies that potentially a combination of elevated serum IgE titers and the presence of C. pneumoniae organisms could be used to assess disease severity," Dr. Webley said.
It also points to the "need to evaluate the usefulness of antibiotics as part of the overall treatment regimen for certain types of chronic respiratory diseases in children, especially when they exist in combination with respiratory chlamydial infection," he added.
Dr. Webley's team also detected Chlamydia in 24 of 70 (34%) cultured peripheral blood specimens obtained compared with just 8 of 70 (11%) matched nonrespiratory control blood samples. Seventeen (24%) of the positive blood cultures from the respiratory group came from children with asthma.
Summing up, Dr. Webley noted that while C. pneumoniae has been linked with a number of chronic infectious diseases, including the exacerbation of asthma symptoms, the majority of the published work to date has focused on adult onset asthma.
"[Our] studies extend detailed findings to children and provide support to the suspicions of researchers that chlamydial infections might play an important role in the exacerbation of chronic respiratory disease symptoms including asthma."
The study appears in the May 15th issue of the American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine.
Am J Respir Crit Care Med 2005;171:1083-1088.
00doc - 30 May 2005 15:17 GMT Don't get me wrong - I think this article strengthens the evidence for an association between asthma and chronic chlamydia infection. But there are a couple of places where the article is just a bit off. I'm thinking most of it probably comes from the author rather than the researcher.
Just please read the whole response before lighting the flames.
> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/505229 > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Wilmore C. Webley from the University of Massachusetts in > Amherst, told Reuters Heath. 54% of children with "various chronic lung diseases". Just take note of that and see below.
> "More importantly, this study shows for the first time that these > organisms are infectious," he said, noting that 31% of all > Chlamydia positive samples by PCR grew in culture on a macrophage > cell substrate. I'll admit it is concerning that there is an active infection. It certainly does prove that it is not just evidence of a past infection like antibodoes and even PCR. It does not distinguish between colonization (which presumably would be doing no harm) and an active, disease producing, infection.
It also does not establish cause and effect. Maybe something about the lung diseases causes a predisposition to carry C. pn. More on this below.
> "This is significant, since the youngest patient with viable > Chlamydia was 6 months old, suggesting that these organisms can > infect early in life at a time when the infant's immune response > is not well developed and can then persist for long periods in > the lungs." It really does not show that the organisms can persist. The only way to do this would be to repeat the study and see if they are still there at some point int he future.
Mind you, I'm not saying it doesn't persist. My bet is that it does. It is just that you can't prove that with a single point study.
> Of the 70 children who participated in the study, 42 had asthma > whereas 28 had various respiratory disorders including aspiration > bronchitis, airway anomalies, gastroesophageal reflux disease, > cystic fibrosis, and recurrent pneumonia of unknown etiology. Here is most of what I am talking about. Infection is not likely to be the cause of CF or airway anomalies. It could predispose to reflux and aspiration but that would be a stretch. So at least in these cases the infection is associated but clearly not the cause. This supports the argument that chronic lung diseases predisposes to infection or colonization rather than infection causing the disease.
So we know that of 70 kids 54% were + = 38+ kids.
> Forty percent of PCR-positive samples and 20% of culture-positive > samples were from children with asthma. Of 38+ kids 40% (15) were asthmatic. This means that of asthmatics 15/42= 35% were PCR+.
So that is the second part of my point. It was not 54% of asthmatics. The percentage for them was still significant and surprisingly high but not 54%.
Since being PCR+ could represent the remnant of a past infection or low grade colonization the culture results are really much more convincing as evidence of current infection (but still not proof) and they, apparently (we don't really have the numbers here), occured in an even smaller percentage than 35% (sounds like it was probably in the neighborhood of 18%).
> According to the > investigators, there was a strong correlation between lavage > culture positivity for Chlamydia and elevated total IgE levels. > "[This] implies that potentially a combination of elevated serum > IgE titers and the presence of C. pneumoniae organisms could be > used to assess disease severity," Dr. Webley said. Or it could mean that high IgE levels is another marker for infection (which appears to be more the researcher's point when you read the actual abstract). This would be usefull since it could provide an objective measure that does not require invasive procedures to obtain. It also strengthens the argument that the infection is active.
> It also points to the "need to evaluate the usefulness of > antibiotics as part of the overall treatment regimen for certain > types of chronic respiratory diseases in children, especially > when they exist in combination with respiratory chlamydial > infection," he added. Here I agree (and this is the part that I am hoping will save me from joyful wrath).
Even if we take the 18% number (assuming it is about that) instead of the 54% (which clearly does not apply to asthmatics) then this is certainly high enough to consider a trial of therapy.
> Dr. Webley's team also detected Chlamydia in 24 of 70 (34%) > cultured peripheral blood specimens obtained compared with just 8 > of 70 (11%) matched nonrespiratory control blood samples. > Seventeen (24%) of the positive blood cultures from the > respiratory group came from children with asthma. This strengthens the argument that it is an active infection and not just colonization. Of course, 11% of normal controls were also + so it has to be interpreted with some caution.
> Summing up, Dr. Webley noted that while C. pneumoniae has been > linked with a number of chronic infectious diseases, including [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Am J Respir Crit Care Med 2005;171:1083-1088. Now, it would be nice if he could complete the study by treating the + kids and then tracking their symptoms and clearance rates and coming up with predictors of treatment success. That would really close the loop.
BTW - to read the abstract go to pubmed ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi ) and just cut and paste the above citation into the search window. Unfortunately, the full text of the article requires a subscription.
 Signature 00doc
Joy - 30 May 2005 16:53 GMT > BTW - to read the abstract go to pubmed ( > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi ) and just cut and paste > the above citation into the search window. Unfortunately, the full > text of the article requires a subscription. OK, lets go to PUBMED. Mind you, there are many more hits at Medline. But this is the result of a Pubmed search for the years 2004 and 2005 for "asthma and Pneumoniae." Some think that caution is in order, particularly in light of the lack of a reliable test and one article concludes in childrenm C. Pmeunomiae has a protective effect (I believe the researchers at National Jewish suggested that also several years 3 or 4 years ago because I recall telling my doctor that). But it seems everyone now sees there is a "relationship" - some of us have been saying that for years. It is getting hard to ignore the whole body of evidence.
Somewhere in here are a couple of articles I found a month ago that talk about the fact that these bugs require a strong Th1 response which some people seem to lack They speculate that explains the Th1/Th2 shift you see and familial relationships. Again, that makes sense to me personally.
1: Dal Molin G, Longo B, Not T, Poli A, Campello C. Related Articles, Links A population based seroepidemiological survey of Chlamydia pneumoniae infections in schoolchildren. J Clin Pathol. 2005 Jun;58(6):617-20. PMID: 15917413 [PubMed - in process] 2: Talbot TR, Hartert TV, Mitchel E, Halasa NB, Arbogast PG, Poehling KA, Schaffner W, Craig AS, Griffin MR. Related Articles, Links Asthma as a risk factor for invasive pneumococcal disease. N Engl J Med. 2005 May 19;352(20):2082-90. PMID: 15901861 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 3: Webley WC, Salva PS, Andrzejewski C, Cirino F, West CA, Tilahun Y, Stuart ES. Related Articles, Links The bronchial lavage of pediatric patients with asthma contains infectious Chlamydia. Am J Respir Crit Care Med. 2005 May 15;171(10):1083-8. Epub 2005 Feb 25. PMID: 15735056 [PubMed - in process] 4: Chu HW, Jeyaseelan S, Rino JG, Voelker DR, Wexler RB, Campbell K, Harbeck RJ, Martin RJ. 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Related Articles, Links Potential role of antibiotics in the treatment of asthma. Curr Drug Targets Inflamm Allergy. 2004 Sep;3(3):237-42. Review. PMID: 15379591 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 24: Blasi F. Related Articles, Links Atypical pathogens and respiratory tract infections. Eur Respir J. 2004 Jul;24(1):171-81. Review. PMID: 15293621 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 25: Nariai A. Related Articles, Links [Mycoplasma pneumoniae infection in hospitalized children with acute pneumonia under the Mycoplasma epidemic] Kansenshogaku Zasshi. 2004 Jun;78(6):496-502. Japanese. PMID: 15287477 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 26: Korppi M, Paldanius M, Hyvarinen A, Nevalainen A, Husman T. Related Articles, Links Chlamydia pneumoniae and newly diagnosed asthma: a case-control study in 1 to 6-year-old children. Respirology. 2004 Jun;9(2):255-9. PMID: 15182278 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 27: Biscardi S, Lorrot M, Marc E, Moulin F, Boutonnat-Faucher B, Heilbronner C, Iniguez JL, Chaussain M, Nicand E, Raymond J, Gendrel D. Related Articles, Links Mycoplasma pneumoniae and asthma in children. Clin Infect Dis. 2004 May 15;38(10):1341-6. Epub 2004 Apr 29. PMID: 15156467 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 28: Schultze-Werninghaus G, Duchna HW, Rasche K, Orth M. Related Articles, Links [Acute severe asthma in older adults] Internist (Berl). 2004 May;45(5):518-26. Review. German. PMID: 15054578 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 29: Tuuminen T, Edelstein I, Punin A, Kislova N, Stratchounski L. Related Articles, Links Use of quantitative and objective enzyme immunoassays to investigate the possible association between Chlamydia pneumoniae and Mycoplasma pneumoniae antibodies and asthma. Clin Microbiol Infect. 2004 Apr;10(4):345-8. PMID: 15059128 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 30: Yang J, Hooper WC, Phillips DJ, Talkington DF. 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Related Articles, Links Role of atypical bacterial infection of the lung in predisposition/protection of asthma. Pharmacol Ther. 2004 Mar;101(3):193-210. Review. PMID: 15030999 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 35: Savykoski T, Harju T, Paldanius M, Kuitunen H, Bloigu A, Wahlstrom E, Rytila P, Kinnula V, Saikku P, Leinonen M. Related Articles, Links Chlamydia pneumoniae infection and inflammation in adults with asthma. Respiration. 2004 Mar-Apr;71(2):120-5. PMID: 15031565 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 36: Lai SH, Wong KS, Liao SL. Related Articles, Links Clinical analysis of bronchiectasis in Taiwanese children. Chang Gung Med J. 2004 Feb;27(2):122-8. PMID: 15095957 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 37: Klig JE. Related Articles, Links Current challenges in lower respiratory infections in children. Curr Opin Pediatr. 2004 Feb;16(1):107-12. Review. PMID: 14758123 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 38: Meloni F, Paschetto E, Mangiarotti P, Crepaldi M, Morosini M, Bulgheroni A, Fietta A. Related Articles, Links Acute Chlamydia pneumoniae and Mycoplasma pneumoniae infections in community-acquired pneumonia and exacerbations of COPD or asthma: therapeutic considerations. J Chemother. 2004 Feb;16(1):70-6. PMID: 15078002 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 39: Kuroki H, Morozumi M, Chiba N, Ubukata K. Related Articles, Links Characterization of children with Mycoplasma pneumoniae infection detected by rapid polymerase chain reaction technique. J Infect Chemother. 2004 Feb;10(1):65-7. PMID: 14991524 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Items 41 - 60 of 360 Previous of 18 Next 40: [No authors listed] Related Articles, Links [Moraxella catarrhalis in chronic and relapsing respiratory tract infections in children] Antibiot Khimioter. 2004;49(8-9):43-7. Russian. PMID: 15727145 [PubMed - in process] 41: Cazzola M, Matera MG, Blasi F. Related Articles, Links Macrolide and occult infection in asthma. Curr Opin Pulm Med. 2004 Jan;10(1):7-14. Review. 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Joy
NorthShoreCEO - 30 May 2005 16:56 GMT > Don't get me wrong - I think this article strengthens the > evidence for an association between asthma and chronic > chlamydia infection. But there are a couple of places where the > article is just a bit off. I'm thinking most of it probably > comes from the author rather than the researcher. It may well be off in some points, but the bottom line message is that those with children who suffer from asthma shouldn't discount the cause being bacteria.
Alison Chaiken - 30 May 2005 18:33 GMT Maureen conveys:
>According to the investigators, there was a strong correlation >between lavage culture positivity for Chlamydia and elevated total >IgE levels. It has been my understanding that IgE is the type of antibody that responds to parasites and that in a malfunctioning immune system, it is also the cause of allergies. Meanwhile IgG, the most common kind of antibody, responds to microbial infections.
Thus isn't it surprising that the presence of Chlamydia is linked to elevated IgE levels? Wouldn't we expect Chlamydia to evoke an IgG response? Does this study suggest that a Chlamydia infection is causing allergies?
 Signature Alison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid. (650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ Notions and scruples were like spilt needles, making one afraid of treading, or sitting down, or even eating. -- George Eliot
NorthShoreCEO - 30 May 2005 21:36 GMT > Maureen conveys: >>According to the investigators, there was a strong correlation [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > is > causing allergies? I don't know, but I can tell you that in my own case, once the chlamydia pneumoniae was cleared up, my allergies went from severe to very mild.
Joy - 31 May 2005 00:13 GMT See my post above about how people who fail to respond with the appropriate Th1 response default to the Th2 response - a malfunctioning immune response, in other words.
Joy
> Maureen conveys: > >According to the investigators, there was a strong correlation [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > response? Does this study suggest that a Chlamydia infection is > causing allergies? 00doc - 31 May 2005 01:28 GMT NorthShoreCEO wrote (in response to Alison - not Joy):
> I don't know, but I can tell you that in my own case, once the > chlamydia pneumoniae was cleared up, my allergies went from > severe to very mild. And Joy wrote (in response to the same post NSCEO was responding to):
> See my post above about how people who fail to respond with the > appropriate Th1 response default to the Th2 response - a > malfunctioning immune response, in other words. If it was the malfunctioning immune response that was predisposing to the infections then the allergies should not be affected after eradication of the infection. However, if the infections were causing an imbalance of the Th1 and Th2 systems by either suppressing Th1 responses or enhancing Th2 then one would expect the allergies to improve with treatment.
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Joy - 31 May 2005 02:07 GMT > NorthShoreCEO wrote (in response to Alison - not Joy): > > I don't know, but I can tell you that in my own case, once the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > responses or enhancing Th2 then one would expect the allergies to > improve with treatment. That is not my understanding of what they where saying. There is a lack of Th1 response which would be required to fight off the infection. Therefore, they continue with the infection and in fact respond with an elevated Th2 response. That is typical of allergy. I will not go as far as to say that is what has happened to me personally. I will speculate that is what you see in my family, however.
Joy
00doc - 31 May 2005 03:40 GMT >> NorthShoreCEO wrote (in response to Alison - not Joy): >>> I don't know, but I can tell you that in my own case, once the [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > personally. I will speculate that is what you see in my family, > however. No, I think you are right. My understanding is that they are saying the Th1 defect is present first and predisposes to the infection. That might be true but it would not explain the allergies getting better after treatment.
Other possibilities are that the allergy improvement was an unrelated fluke, that the treatment helped the allergies by some other mechanism, or that the infection was triggering the allergies by some other mechanism.
 Signature 00doc
Joy - 31 May 2005 06:56 GMT > >> NorthShoreCEO wrote (in response to Alison - not Joy): > >>> I don't know, but I can tell you that in my own case, once the [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > mechanism, or that the infection was triggering the allergies by some > other mechanism. Yes, I think the Th1 defect is the problem and explains the family nature of asthma (speculation on my part). But it would also explain the positive change in allergy if the infection were removed and therefore no response were necessary - that is neither Th1 or Th2 because according to this researcher (the response changes to Th2 when Th1 is not available). Not that it is effective entirely for some reason in all of us.
Joy
Joy - 31 May 2005 02:09 GMT . However, if the infections were causing
> an imbalance of the Th1 and Th2 systems by either suppressing Th1 > responses or enhancing Th2 then one would expect the allergies to > improve with treatment. Is that not what Maureen has been saying?
00doc - 31 May 2005 01:22 GMT > Maureen conveys: >> According to the investigators, there was a strong correlation [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > response? Does this study suggest that a Chlamydia infection is > causing allergies? Fungal infections also can cause an IgE response. Since mycoplasma and chlamydia live intracellularly and are "atypical" in many respects it is not shocking that they would produce a different immune response. This doesn't mean that the infections are necessarily causing allergies but it does raise the intriguing question of whether measuring chlamydia and mycoplasma specific IgE antibodies might not turn out to be a good test.
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ARoberts - 31 May 2005 02:21 GMT >> Maureen conveys: >>> According to the investigators, there was a strong correlation [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > does raise the intriguing question of whether measuring chlamydia and > mycoplasma specific IgE antibodies might not turn out to be a good test. That is interesting. Are there currently such chlamydia / mycoplasma specific IgE antibody tests available now?
Joy - 31 May 2005 02:25 GMT > That is interesting. Are there currently such chlamydia / mycoplasma > specific IgE antibody tests available now? Not the ones you can "go to the Bank" on. Unless they do a lung biopsy.
Joy
ARoberts - 31 May 2005 03:36 GMT >> That is interesting. Are there currently such chlamydia / mycoplasma >> specific IgE antibody tests available now? > > Not the ones you can "go to the Bank" on. Unless they do a lung biopsy. > > Joy I like the emperical approach (just take the antibiotics)--ultimately it's less perilous.
00doc - 31 May 2005 03:44 GMT >>> That is interesting. Are there currently such chlamydia / >>> mycoplasma specific IgE antibody tests available now? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > antibiotics)--ultimately > it's less perilous. Right now that may be the best we have. It would be nice to be able to predict response and avoid treating people with no chance of a response. More importantly, it would be useful to be able to monitor for relapses and partial responses instead of trying to guess if the clinical falure was due to innappropriate candidate selection (meaning more drugs would do no good) or innadequate treatment (meaning more drugs are needed).
 Signature 00doc
Joy - 31 May 2005 07:00 GMT > >>> That is interesting. Are there currently such chlamydia / > >>> mycoplasma specific IgE antibody tests available now? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > more drugs would do no good) or innadequate treatment (meaning more > drugs are needed). Well, I look on it as a patient. Someone who was sick and has no interest in being in that boat any longer. So you know, unless research picks up and moves on quickly, I say GO FOR IT. It is amazing how many hits I get over this time last year, though.
Joy
00doc - 31 May 2005 03:41 GMT > That is interesting. Are there currently such chlamydia / > mycoplasma > specific IgE antibody tests available now? Not that I know of - but I haven't checked.
 Signature 00doc
00doc - 31 May 2005 01:19 GMT >> Don't get me wrong - I think this article strengthens the >> evidence for an association between asthma and chronic [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > that those with children who suffer from asthma shouldn't > discount the cause being bacteria. I agree.
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