Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / May 2005
Daily Drugs Not Always Needed for Mild Asthma - Study
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Don Brady - 14 Apr 2005 10:48 GMT http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153393,00.html
"Many adults with mild persistent asthma may not need daily inhaled steroid treatments to adequately control the condition, according to findings from a new government study.
The surprising results could lead to a change in treatment guidelines for asthma, which currently call for daily therapy with inhaled steroids even in those that do not have daily symptoms."
.......
00doc - 14 Apr 2005 15:11 GMT > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153393,00.html > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > asthma, which currently call for daily therapy with inhaled steroids even in > those that do not have daily symptoms." Eh, I wouldn't get too excited.
The current guidlines say that if you are having symptoms more than 2-3 times per week you should be on daily meds. These guys are talking about people who have the sx's 2-3 times per week but not daily - i.e <7 times per week - basically asthmatics with symptoms between 3-6 times per week. That has got to be a small percentage of people. As proof of this consider that the study was conducted at 6 centers over 2 years - all to recruit 255 people.
Indeed, it turns out that the asthmatics in this study were exceptionally mild - with only two exacerbations per year even when off of meds. As a reviewer* describes: "Moreover, since the population and the design of the study by Boushey et al. differ from those of the two previous studies supporting the need for regular treatment,3,4 the results are not directly comparable. Although the lung function of the subjects in the study by Boushey et al. was similar to that in the two previous studies,3,4 only adults who were nonsmokers and who had a much longer history of asthma and a lower incidence of exacerbations were included (the other studies included smokers and children). Moreover, the low percentage of eosinophils in the sputum and the low concentration of nitric oxide in the exhaled air, both markers of the severity of asthma, suggest that the patients enrolled by Boushey et al. had a very mild form of persistent asthma.11,12 To complicate matters, before randomization, all patients received about two weeks of treatment with clinical doses of oral and inhaled corticosteroids and zafirlukast. Thus, the initial intensive treatment and the symptom-based plan to treat exacerbations may have had a carryover effect, contributing to a reduction in asthma symptoms and in the number and severity of exacerbations in the patients studied."
Also consider that some caution would be needed before adopting the approach they suggest, using intermittent inhaled steroids with exacerbations, since other research suggests that once an exacerbation is underway adding or increasing inhaled steroids does little and oral steroids are needed. (To be precise, 2 studies have shown that doubling the dose is inneffective while one studiy showed that quadrupling it is).
Over-all, their conclusions is reasonable: "It may be possible to treat mild persistent asthma with short, intermittent courses of inhaled or oral corticosteroids taken when symptoms worsen. Further studies are required to determine whether this novel approach to treatment should be recommended."
The reviewer concludes: "In the meantime, will the results of this study change our clinical practice? They may indeed, since the option of intermittent treatment with inhaled corticosteroids complies with the philosophy of achieving and maintaining control of asthma with the least amount of medication.1,2 This approach may be feasible in patients with mild persistent asthma who have never received corticosteroids, but such patients should have the same characteristics as the patients in the study by Boushey et al., and the initial period of intensive treatment should not be omitted. Patients should be informed about the pros and cons of this strategy, including the absence of a risk of major adverse events (severe exacerbations and hospitalization) as well as the slightly increased risk of a greater number of days with symptoms.
Intermittent treatment might also be offered to patients with mild persistent asthma as an intermediate step to the withdrawal of controller medication, if their disease is well controlled by regular treatment with inhaled corticosteroids. The chief concern in recommending this intermittent-treatment plan is that it requires a very careful assessment of the severity of asthma, the risk being that an underestimation of severity may be associated with undertreatment of patients with more severe asthma.4
The paradigm that inhaled corticosteroids control asthma because they suppress airway inflammation is appealing, but it is not really supported by solid data, since other treatments that inhibit airway inflammation are clinically ineffective.15 At the present time, the treatment of asthma should still be based on patient-centered outcomes, with the use of the least amount of medication required to achieve control. With this approach, the severity of asthma will be reflected by the amount of medication required to maintain control, and the border between different levels of severity, and particularly between mild intermittent and mild persistent asthma, may become blurred."
It was a small study carried on for a year in a group of patients in which you expect a low event rate (meaning that you need a lot of data to find differences). I think that the reviewer has a point that this may be useful now as a weaning step in well controlled asthmatics on daily meds with virtually no sx's (OK twice a year) looking to cut down further. For everyone else more study will be needed.
* Leonardo M. Fabbri, M.D. NEJM Volume 352:1589-1591
-- 00doc
P.S. As a side note - Fox News? That network is nothing but a blatant propaganda network and its viewers have been shown to be misinformed. If you haven't rented and watched a movie called "Outfoxed" you should (really, everyone should - it is pretty amazing stuff). Why not try CNN (or better yet the BBC)?
Ted Edwards - 14 Apr 2005 17:45 GMT > Eh, I wouldn't get too excited.
> The current guidlines say that if you are having symptoms more than 2-3 > times per week you should be on daily meds. I have COPD and, while it's not asthma per-se, it's a kissi'n cousin. I'm on Serevent, Atrovent and Pulmicort with Salbutamol as rescue. The Pulmicort, if you aren't familiar with it, is a cortico-steroid.
Now, while I'm willing to take meds I *need*, I don't like to take more than necessary. It is also relevent that I do a fair bit of programming. When I was first diagnosed back in '93 I wrote a program to record and plot my PEF each time I took my meds.
In consultation with my doctor, we agreed with my suggestion that I should ween myself off the steroid and see what happens. I did and it was clear after a couple weeks that the Pulmicirt was a Good Thing.
Even if you don't program, you can record and plot the results of any med change. That way you _know_ what effects the change made. Note that any change can take a while to show up so don't panic over one or two or three bad (or good, for that matter) days.
Ted
Murray Grossan - 15 Apr 2005 04:21 GMT On 4/14/05 9:45 AM, in article 67x7e.25920$VF5.3972@edtnps89, "Ted Edwards" <Ted_Espamless@telus.net> wrote:
>> Eh, I wouldn't get too excited. > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Ted That report on not needing medications is confusing even to me.
In the best of all worlds, we would take no medications, period. But the alterative for asthmatics is not a happy one - congestion, infection, etc etc. Asthma is an inflammatory disease. If you control, reduce the inflammation you avoid complications. Every person reacts differently, and you need to work closely with your doctor about your medications. Yes, medications have side effects. But these must be weighed vs the good effects. I have seen Xanax blasted from here to the ends of the planet, yet I see patients who were "basket cases" and thanks to Xanax are now working, taking care of the family, and living essentially normal lives. So, it is one drug that despite the "universal condemnation" has helped many persons. In other words your own reaction to drugs is what counts.
Joy - 15 Apr 2005 06:49 GMT > I have seen Xanax blasted from here to the ends of the planet, yet I see > patients who were "basket cases" and thanks to Xanax are now working, taking > care of the family, and living essentially normal lives. So, it is one drug > that despite the "universal condemnation" has helped many persons. > In other words your own reaction to drugs is what counts. ' I have been advised by docs NOT in the respiratory area to avoid inhaled steroids at all costs. So you know, everyone seems to have an opinion. Personally, I think the :"avoid steroids at all cost" people have the answer.
And so whatever.
Joy
00doc - 15 Apr 2005 13:29 GMT The problem with the non-respiratory specialists saying things like that is that they forget that however important they consider what they do - breathing is more important.
A while a go I had a severe asthmatic/COPD'er (it is so hard to classify the smokers sometimes) come in with an acute exacerbation that requires hospitalization. She had been to her optometrist (not opthomologist mind you - but optometrist) who diagnosed cataracts and told her to stop taking her steroids.
I told her that if she listens to this guy the only thing she would be able to see was the inside ofher coffin.
 Signature 00doc
Bob - 15 Apr 2005 14:38 GMT >I told her that if she listens to this guy the only thing she would be >able to see was the inside of her coffin. He certainly seems to be clouding the issue; what a nimbuscile...
00doc - 16 Apr 2005 03:31 GMT >> I told her that if she listens to this guy the only thing >> she would >> be able to see was the inside of her coffin. > > He certainly seems to be clouding the issue; what a > nimbuscile... Thanks for the chuckle. You really are too much sometimes.
Bob - 17 Apr 2005 14:02 GMT >>> I told her that if she listens to this guy the only thing >>> she would [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Thanks for the chuckle. You really are too much sometimes. Anytime.
ARoberts - 16 Apr 2005 04:05 GMT >>I told her that if she listens to this guy the only thing she would be >>able to see was the inside of her coffin. > > He certainly seems to be clouding the issue; what a nimbuscile... Bob, that was cirrus-ly funny...
Bob - 17 Apr 2005 13:57 GMT >>>I told her that if she listens to this guy the only thing she would be >>>able to see was the inside of her coffin. >> >> He certainly seems to be clouding the issue; what a nimbuscile... > >Bob, that was cirrus-ly funny... Thanks. O dear... Please excuse me, but yet once again, I am moved to song:
He was a Wild-Eyed, Wall-Mart Whitecoat Wannabeer A Wild-Eyed, Wall-Mart Whitecoat Wannabeer Don't be a Wild-Eyed, Wall-Mart Whitecoat Wannabeer Diagnosing through myopic fog...
cloud - 17 Apr 2005 23:37 GMT someone mention a distant relative?
Always, ..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:- ¸.·´ .·´¨¨)) ((¸¸.·´ ..·´ cloud -:¦:- -:¦:- ((¸¸.·´* "
>>>I told her that if she listens to this guy the only thing she would be >>>able to see was the inside of her coffin. >> >> He certainly seems to be clouding the issue; what a nimbuscile... > > Bob, that was cirrus-ly funny... Joy - 15 Apr 2005 15:34 GMT > The problem with the non-respiratory specialists saying things like > that is that they forget that however important they consider what they [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I told her that if she listens to this guy the only thing she would be > able to see was the inside ofher coffin. If I hadn't experimented though because of those comments, I would likely still be on Advair with its side effects. As it is, I am much happier using Singulair as the first line of defense. It is certainly hard for a patient to know who to listen to. Joy
Nancy - 15 Apr 2005 18:31 GMT >>The problem with the non-respiratory specialists saying things like >>that is that they forget that however important they consider what they [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > to know who to listen to. > Joy Hey Joy -
You're right, it is hard. You are REALLY lucky that the Singulair worked for you. It didn't do a damn thing for me. Sadly, asthma is a very individualized disease. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum from you - I need the steroids, both oral and inhaled. I hear it from people all the time, that I'm crazy, the steroids are gonna kill me, thats why my hair is so thin, why I've gained so much weight, etc. etc. They are probably right to a certain degree. My answer basically, is that I'd rather be fat, bald and breathing, LOL. I stay on top of the side effects that I can, like the bone problems by having yearly bone scans and doing a lot of calcium and taking Fosomax. The hair, well, I'm getting good at hiding the bald spot. The weight, you can only do so much. My asthma doc gave me great advice, to eat like I can lose weight, and eventually when the steroids get low enough, I will. These are just from the oral prednisone, I dont think I have much of a problem from the inhaled Advair.
I guess the bottom line is not to be afraid. Don't be afraid to take them, and don't be afraid to explore your options about not taking them. Just always do it with the advice of your PULMONOLOGIST.
Life is uncertain......eat dessert first! Nancy 8=:)
Joy - 15 Apr 2005 19:21 GMT Nancy,
You know, I am so lucky. And boy do I ever know it. I used to take 5 asthma/sinus meds and 3 for skin conditions, and @$40 each, it was killing me! Not to mention all the doctor visits (Pulm, PCP, ENT, Derm) every month. I have been to see my PCP twice and my ENT twice (tonsils out) and that is IT in the last 2 years. I was just reflecting last night as I was reading about asthma and vomiting (mast cell activation theory for CVS) how I used to cough all night until I threw up. If I thought I would have to go back there to the way I used to live................
Now, if I get short of breath, I use an inhaler and if it goes on for 4 or 5 days, I start Singulair. After a couple of months, I try and go off it. It hasn't been long enough for me to say for sure how many months of the year I must take it, but in the last 2 years, it has been primarily from the middle of July to the end of September. We will see what happens this year.
Joy
00doc - 16 Apr 2005 03:32 GMT > If I hadn't experimented though because of those comments, > I would [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > hard for a patient to know who to listen to. > Joy But there is a difference between that and not listening to anybody.
Joy - 16 Apr 2005 06:39 GMT > But there is a difference between that and not listening to > anybody. That is true. I gather opinions before I go off the regular beaten track, and it would appear not everyone does that. You have to question everything, I have learned, .......
which leads to Richard's B post. So there is another lost group. I really fail to see how any thinking person could be "caught up" in B breathing. I guess they can't make heads or tails of the literature. And it is about time we move on.
Joy
jackmallory@webtv.net - 17 Apr 2005 17:29 GMT My lung doctor says I have asthma, emphysema and something else.
A long time ago when I was still using Asmacort, I tried doing without it over a period of just a few days. No good.
(Wish I'd discovered Pulmicort earlier on.)
Richard Friedel - 15 Apr 2005 19:59 GMT ..
> P.S. As a side note - Fox News? That network is nothing but a blatant > propaganda network and its viewers have been shown to be misinformed. > If you haven't rented and watched a movie called "Outfoxed" you should > (really, everyone should - it is pretty amazing stuff). Why not try CNN > (or better yet the BBC)? Yes but Rupert Murdock, Fox tv, has a sense of humor about the medical profession. See http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0514041swan1.html. He seems to team up with Buteyko in calling for more reflection about asthma treatment. Buteyko has shown that unteated asthma is not nearly as life.threatening as most are willing to believe, although they would not want to do without asthma drugs. Regards, Richard Friedel
Joy - 16 Apr 2005 06:45 GMT http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0514041swan1.html. He seems to
> team up with Buteyko in calling for more reflection about asthma > treatment. Buteyko has shown that unteated asthma is not nearly as > life.threatening as most are willing to believe, although they would Well I followed that link and it just didn't pan out IMHO. Who listens to them ( Fox) anyway? We would all be considered less than intelligent (and I live in NEWT country) if we were so stupid.This is great. You admire FOX? Make my day.
Joy
Brad_Chad - 09 May 2005 00:14 GMT You might be able to do something about your mild asthma by finding your hidden food allergies, with the help of a naturopathic doctor?
Brad_Chad62@yahoo.com
Blues Ma - 09 May 2005 00:49 GMT > You might be able to do something about your mild asthma by finding > your hidden food allergies, with the help of a naturopathic doctor? > > Brad_Chad62@yahoo.com Hate to 'amen' you a second time in a second location, but..............you're very right yet again. I had never known anyone who went to naturopath until i decided to go. VERY positive experience. And a completely successful result with allergy identification and treatment.
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