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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / April 2005

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Nocturnal Asthma

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Kendal Emery - 29 Mar 2005 18:59 GMT
After having a severe attack last night, which landed me in the ER, with
another 5 days of prednisone, and 6 nebulizers in a row of albuterol with
one of those being with atrovent(?) I did some research on the National
Jewish Website and found some very interesting information.  Since my worst
attacks have always been in the wee hours of the morning (between1:30AM and
3:00 AM) I looked at this nocturnal asthma, and that one of the causes is
sleep apnea, which I was (I think, haven't got the official results back
though ) diagnosed with.

So, my question would be..... does anyone else on here have this, and what
have you noticed?  I am REALLY relunctant to go on the cpap machine, since I
used it the one night during the sleep study and almost went bonkers (I am
claustrophobic, and that thing on my face was almost more than I could
stand).  The doctor who sent me also mentioned my tonsils might be the
problem because they are very large.  I am thinking that getting the tonsils
out might be the cure for a multitude of illnesses.

your thoughts?

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Kendal Emery
MCNGP #19
Now living in the great state of Colorado
Permament resident of the State of Confusion

00doc - 29 Mar 2005 19:58 GMT
One way or another you do need to address the apnea - it can kill you
in a lot of incidious ways besides asthma.

They sometimes can do the CPAP through a mask that fits over the nose
which you might find more tolerable. It is not uncommon to have to work
a respiratory therapist to find the right mask.

It would be impossible for anyone here to tell if you should have your
tonsil out. I would say that there are also dental appliances and other
things that might help. Of course, there is the ever popular advise to
lose weight.

What I would do is to see a "sleep specialist" - usually an ENT or
pulmonologist. I'm sure if your doc or insurer can't give you a name or
two the sleep lab that did your study can.

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00doc

Kendal Emery - 29 Mar 2005 22:05 GMT
Funny thing about the weight loss, is that no one who has seen me in this
capacity has even started to discuss weight loss.  Not that I am skinny as a
rail :)

Anyway, I am trying to get ahold of my doctor to see what we need to do.  I
am almost afraid to go to sleep tonight, for fear of a repeat performance.

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Kendal Emery
MCNGP #19
Now living in the great state of Colorado
Permament resident of the State of Confusion

> One way or another you do need to address the apnea - it can kill you
> in a lot of incidious ways besides asthma.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> pulmonologist. I'm sure if your doc or insurer can't give you a name or
> two the sleep lab that did your study can.
jrp32a@yahoo.spam - 01 Apr 2005 23:21 GMT

>am almost afraid to go to sleep tonight, for fear of a repeat performance.

Sure have been there, except it was not "almost".

FACE
Joy - 29 Mar 2005 21:18 GMT
The doctor who sent me also mentioned my tonsils might be the
> problem because they are very large.  I am thinking that getting the tonsils
> out might be the cure for a multitude of illnesses.
>
> your thoughts?

How old are you? I did have my tonsils out and I am over 50, so it is not
recommended.  The ENT didn't think it would help much, but I am happy to
report I have much less trouble with my ears, with swallowing, guttate
psoriasis, stridor and low grade fevers.  I would do it again, even as bad
as the recovery was because it did clear up many of my problems. You should
be warned this is not fun surgery for an adult.

Joy
Kendal Emery - 29 Mar 2005 21:59 GMT
I am 42.  I am also thinking of the tonsils, because I still get tonsillitis
once or twice a year, that lands me in bed.  I can't sleep with an
evaporitive cooler on, because I wake up with a sore throat.

I would be willing to undergo a hard recovery if it would solve the
problems... After last night, I would be willing to try the cpap machine if
it would solve the problems :(

Signature

Kendal Emery
MCNGP #19
Now living in the great state of Colorado
Permament resident of the State of Confusion

> The doctor who sent me also mentioned my tonsils might be the
> > problem because they are very large.  I am thinking that getting the
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Joy
Mary - 01 Apr 2005 07:36 GMT
> The doctor who sent me also mentioned my tonsils might be the
> > problem because they are very large.  I am thinking that getting the
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> as the recovery was because it did clear up many of my problems. You should
> be warned this is not fun surgery for an adult.

Is there some reason you think it is fun for a child?
Kendal Emery - 01 Apr 2005 22:44 GMT
Yeah...... Ice Cream    :D

Signature

Kendal Emery
MCNGP #19
Now living in the great state of Colorado
Permament resident of the State of Confusion

>
> > The doctor who sent me also mentioned my tonsils might be the
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Is there some reason you think it is fun for a child?
nonerequired - 30 Mar 2005 03:38 GMT
I'm one of those respiratory therapist that spent the better part of 10 years
setting up CPAP's. My Dad has bad sleep apnea. I've seen LOTS of people with
sleep apnea.

Surgery on tonsils alone might be helpful but would have an extremely low
probability of doing anything besides a trivial improvement. The surgery done
for it is called palatophyrngealoplasty (PPP). It makes tonsil removal look
trivial. Success rate is improving (mostly by better candidate selection) but
still can be 50% or less. Side effects can be significant. Surgeons who tell you
otherwise want your money.

Weight loss if you have untreated OSA (obstructive sleep apnea) is basically
impossible. It's damn near impossible if you DON'T have OSA. Treat the OSA and
you have a small measure of possibility. For "some" women this can make a big
difference. For men it helps but generally will NOT cure.

CPAP is still generally the easiest, lowest cost, and most effective treatment.
At least you don't have chunks of you removed that you can't put back. Getting
used to it can take some time. You'll do better at home with your own equipment
but expect a learning curve. Getting someone to make sure you get a good mask
fit and lets you know what to expect will help a lot. Often units can be rented
for a month before purchase.

You should get checked for reflux. Index of suspicion with nocturnal asthma is
very high.

Check out this site for a simple self test for OSA
http://www.sleepnet.com/sleepapnea.html

For possible equipment options check here
http://www.cpapman.com/influent.html
(there are LOTS of sites available)

Fritz
Respiratory Therapy
Richard Friedel - 02 Apr 2005 09:01 GMT
> After having a severe attack last night, which landed me in the ER, with
> another 5 days of prednisone, and 6 nebulizers in a row of albuterol with
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> Now living in the great state of Colorado
> Permament resident of the State of Confusion

If you can nose breathe sleeping on your side (but not on your back)
the resistance is lower and the propensity to apneas and snoring is
less.
See Eur Respir J. 2005 Mar;25(3):521-7.
   Effect of treating severe nasal obstruction on the severity of
obstructive sleep apnoea.
   McLean HA et al.    "An association between mouth breathing during
sleep and increased propensity for upper airway collapse is well
documented, .." and
Eur Respir J. 2003 Nov;22(5):827-32.    Effect of nasal or oral
breathing route on upper airway resistance during sleep.    Fitzpatrick
MF, et al.
"Healthy subjects with normal nasal resistance breathe almost
exclusively through the nose during sleep. ...Upper airway resistance
during sleep and the propensity to obstructive sleep apnoea are
significantly lower while breathing nasally rather than orally. "

This would provide an argument  in favor of training for nose breathing
in sleep to prevent apneas.  This would be a smarter tactic than
breathing through the mouth with the tendency for the pharynx to be
occluded by suction.  The actual reason for nose breathing resistance
being lower seems irrelevant.  Regards, Richard Friedel

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