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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Asthma / February 2005

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Licorice Root <---helping me out a little

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jelly - 23 Feb 2005 09:14 GMT
I used to have a chronic cough with asthmatic symptoms, however my doctors
could not determine if I had asthma and no medications they gave me ever
worked.  After much frustrations with the doctors who seemed to be just
randomly medicating me like a lab rat, I decided that I could do the same
thing to myself without thier help.

I recently decided in a last ditch effort to look into supplements.  I tried
a liquid herbal supplement called "licorice root" and I am also taking
"magnesium" and regular vitamins + extra vitamin C.  I would like to report
to you guys that though my cough is still with me, my chest is much less
tight (it was almost instant like a miracle).  I have never taken a
supplement that made me feel this good.  On top of making my chest feel
better I have more energy and have an overall feeling of wellness that is
incredible.  No doubt this is probably harmful to the heart in high doses,
and addiction could be a problem, nevertheless it's the only thing that is
helping me.  I am getting better sleep and waking up feeling highly
refreshed.  I feel like I have a more positive attitude and more confidence.
There may have ben alcohol in the drops I bought since I had a tiny alcohol
buzz.  Anyhow, good luck folks.  If nothing else worked for you, give this a
little try.  Buy the DROPS not the other stuff and give it a good 20 minutes
to kick in, you'll feel a little buzz and if you keep takingit you might get
the same results as I did --->I love this stuff.

Maybe this stuff could help people with emphysema or chronic bronchitis
also.

This is not the cure for me, but it's the best thing I have had yet, and I
am still looking for a cure to my problem through herbs.  I'll let you guys
know if I find anything else that works better.

Next supplements to try on my list are:

Cayenne Pepper and Rye Grass Extract
nige - 23 Feb 2005 11:52 GMT
I used to chew the liquorice root, because I like the taste. Can't say that
I felt any better as regards  the asthma or anything else. I quit the
liquorice when I read an article about how it makes the testosterone levels
drop.

>I used to have a chronic cough with asthmatic symptoms, however my doctors
>could not determine if I had asthma and no medications they gave me ever
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Cayenne Pepper and Rye Grass Extract
jelly - 24 Feb 2005 00:03 GMT
>I used to chew the liquorice root, because I like the taste.

I was talking about concentrated licorice root extract in liquid form, not
chewing the root itself.  I'm not sure if there is much of a difference in
any case, but I am not chewing licorice root.

> Can't say that I felt any better as regards  the asthma or anything else.
> I quit the liquorice when I read an article about how it makes the
> testosterone levels drop.

I would rather be able to breathe and feel good then worry about a tiny
decrease in my testosterone which I can counter by doing excerize (which I
can now do more of because of the licorice root juice).
Joy - 24 Feb 2005 02:19 GMT
> >I used to chew the liquorice root, because I like the taste.
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> decrease in my testosterone which I can counter by doing excerize (which I
> can now do more of because of the licorice root juice).

You know, my kids were told to stay away from it since it interacts with the
Florinef they take. It appears to further stimulate the adrenal glands. So I
knew that it was a herb with some dramatic effects. I then wondered about
what exactly traditional science thought about it and why it might work. The
up-shot is that it isn't supposed to work all that well on asthma, but it
does have some benefits for digestion and infection in their view.

http://myhealth.barnesjewish.org/library/healthguide/en-us/Cam/topic.asp?hwid=hn
-2122006


Have you ever tried to treat for reflux? Have you ever felt your asthma was
better when on antibiotics?

Joy
00doc - 24 Feb 2005 03:26 GMT
> You know, my kids were told to stay away from it since it
> interacts
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> dramatic
> effects.

Actually the glyzorrheic acid (almost no chance of being
spelled correctly) in licorice stimulates the aldosterone
receptor. Aldosterone is a hormone (a mineralocorticoid)
secreted by the adrenals that actis ont he kidneys to cause
sodium retention and hydrogen and potasium ion wasting.
Florinef is a drug that partially mimics both
corticocorticoid (as in prednisone) and mineralocorticoid
activity so combining it with licorice can cause an
imbalance between the two.

You need to consume real licorice - the candy sold in most
stores doesn't qualify.

>  I then wondered about what exactly traditional science
> thought about it and why it might work. The up-shot is
> that it isn't
> supposed to work all that well on asthma, but it does have
> some
> benefits for digestion and infection in their view.

I'm not sure about that but Aldactone (spironolactone), a
drug that blocks the aldosterone receptor, has several
beneficial effects in heart failure (besides the diuretic
effect). It seems that aldosterone has effects outside the
kidney that are mostyl poorly understood. As far as I know
blocking the receptors does not lead to problems with
asthma, digestion, or infection.

> http://myhealth.barnesjewish.org/library/healthguide/en-us/Cam/topic.asp?hwid=hn
-2122006

I'm not sure that this is really reflective of the view of
traditional science. The site doesn't give much details
other than to say it is good. A quick pubmed search does
show some lab evidence for an effect against viral
infections. I couldn't find much about asthma or reflux.

Signature

00doc

Joy - 24 Feb 2005 05:27 GMT
> I'm not sure about that but Aldactone (spironolactone), a
> drug that blocks the aldosterone receptor, has several
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> blocking the receptors does not lead to problems with
> asthma, digestion, or infection.

I was not going to go there outright (heart effects) because I don't know
enough, but I had to wonder about  it based on my limited knowledge and my
husband's family history. I can say that all the relatives with this
imbalance have digestive problems and heart effects (they die between 40 and
50) and I think that it is related. You're looking at bad genes basically in
that senario.

But the infection link I did track on before I posted and I found several
sites which confirmed the virus link at least. Not that you can believe
anything you find on the internet......

I would be interested to find out how this plays out. And the reason is that
I have found that Q10 works for CVS so I think  we should keep an open mind
about herbs.  I really don't care that anyone can explain it today - I hope
they will figure it out because those of us effected have seen the
supplement works. And so the big question is WHY.

Joy
00doc - 24 Feb 2005 17:00 GMT
I agree about keeping an open mind about herbs - it is certain that
some can be useful. But a few caveates need to also be kept in mind:

1) No plant ever produced a chemical for the good of man. They do it to
help themselves - often at the expense of animals that may eat them
(nearly all known poisons are plant derived). It is not reasonable to
assume that herbal = safe.

2) Labs data is one thing. Clinical outcomes data is another. The two
should not be confused.

3) If any chemical has an effect it will likely have a side effect. As
a corrolary: any chemical that has no side effects will likely also
have no effects. Anyone claiming one without the other should be
summarily dismissed.

4) Even if research studies show that in people a compound is safe and
effective there is still the issue of whether or not you are getting
the same thing that was studied. Alas, when herbal compounds are tested
they usually do not have what the label says they have. In one study I
recall the researchers had to have the compund specially made because
none of the commercial products they tested had reliable amounts of
active ingredients. They then offered their compound to other
researchers to do studies on. That is great for the researchers but
where does it leave the rest of us?

5) Many pharmaceutical adverse events are discovered post marketting.
The numbers needed to detect all but the most common reactions
precludes them being detected in controlled pre-marketting experiments.
Herbal products do not have nearly the same degree of surveillance for
safety as pharmaceuticals do and so lack this crucial safety net.

Signature

00doc

Joy - 24 Feb 2005 17:31 GMT
CBI,

Yes, absolutely everything you say is true.  I asked Bob about Q10 because I
am concerned that we are getting what we think we are getting in the bottle.
And i hope that the long experience of the Japanese using Q10 without long
term effects translates to no long term effects for us. You know I would
never assume that herbal=safe! But you know the most important component of
the equation is "does it work?" and for at least some of us, the answer
seems to be YES.

So considering that licorice root is not supposed to be effective for
asthma, why do you think it is working for this asthmatic?

Joy

> I agree about keeping an open mind about herbs - it is certain that
> some can be useful. But a few caveates need to also be kept in mind:
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Herbal products do not have nearly the same degree of surveillance for
> safety as pharmaceuticals do and so lack this crucial safety net.
Joy - 25 Feb 2005 03:45 GMT
>  So considering that licorice root is not supposed to be effective for
> asthma, why do you think it is working for this asthmatic?

I finally looked it up in the "Family Guide to Nateral Medicines and Healing
Therapies" put out by Physicians' Desk Reference and I can see only two
explanations that suggest why it might work for asthma indirectly. One is it
acts as a decongestant thinning mucus (if that is an issue - remember the
PND setting off asthma attacks) and the other is it enhances the effects of
steroids (and side effects). They further more state that because possible
lost of salt, the patient should take a break from the preparation every 6
weeks. The listed uses are cough and digestion according to this source.

Joy
NorthShoreCEO - 25 Feb 2005 03:48 GMT
>>  So considering that licorice root is not supposed to be
>> effective for
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Joy

There's more information here:

http://www.swedish.org/16354.cfm

Licorice Root: Not Candy, But an Herbal Remedy
by Amy Scholten, MPH

Mention the word licorice,? and most people think of the chewy
black candy that theyve been eating since they were kids. But
licorice is also a potent herb that has been used since ancient
times for medicinal purposes.

Licorice root, or glycyrrhiza glabra, comes from a purple and
white flowering perennial that originated in the Mediterranean
region and central and southwest Asia. Traditionally, it has been
boiled to extract its sweetness, and has been used in making
licorice candy. But licorice root, by itself or in compounds with
other herbs, has many medicinal uses.

Deglycyrrhizinated Licorice (DGL)

Licorice root contains glycyrrhizin, a substance that can cause
fluid retention, increased blood pressure, and loss of potassium,
when taken in large amounts, or in moderate amounts for two weeks
or more. To prevent this effect, some manufacturers remove
glycyrrhizin from the licorice root, to produce a
licorice-related product called deglycyrrhizinated licorice, or
DGL.

Proposed Uses of Licorice
Gastric ulcers and stomach irritation " Licorice is believed to
have a protective effect on the cells lining the stomach and
appears to increase blood flow. A combination therapy containing
DGL and ordinary antacids has been used to prevent and treat
ulcers. Several poorly designed studies hint that regular use of
this combination can heal ulcers as effectively as Zantac and
similar drugs. However, if DGL does work, it will need to be used
continuously to prevent ulcers from recurring. Ulcers are caused
by the bacteria Helicobacter pylori, which must be eradicated by
drug therapy for permanent recovery from ulcers.

Weak evidence also suggests that DGL might help protect the
stomach from the irritation and ulcers caused by nonsteroidal
anti-inflammatory drugs.

Mouth sores " DGL might help relieve the discomfort of canker
sores in the mouth, although there havent been any studies on
this subject. The main problem with DGL is that it must be sucked
to coat the canker sores, and some people find its taste
objectionable.

Eczema, psoriasis, and herpes " A topical licorice cream (often
mixed with chamomile extract) is sometimes used to treat various
skin conditions, such as eczema, psoriasis, and herpes, but there
is no evidence that it is effective.

Cough, asthma " Whole licorice (not DGL) has been used as an
expectorant for coughs and asthma; however, this use should be no
longer than one week.

Sore throat - Whole licorice and DGL have been used for soothing
a sore throat.

Chronic fatigue syndrome " The glycyrrhizin in licorice may mimic
the effects of adrenal hormones. For this reason, its possible
that licorice may be beneficial for people with chronic fatigue
syndrome who have low levels of certain adrenal hormones.
However, this approach to treatment can be dangerous and should
not be tried without medical supervision.

Other conditions " Whole licorice has been proposed as a
treatment for other conditions including cancer, hepatitis, and
menopausal symptoms. At this time, however, there is no
meaningful evidence that it is effective for these conditions.

Dosage and Safety Issues
For ulcer treatment, the standard dose of DGL is two to four 380
mg tablets taken before meals and at bedtime. For mouth pain, the
tablets can be slowly dissolved in the mouth.

The standard dose of whole licorice is 5-15 grams per day.
However, many medical experts do not recommend using doses this
high for more than one week. Excessive use of licorice (not DGL)
may increase blood pressure, and cause fluid retention, headache,
and loss of potassium.

A maximum adult dose of 0.3 grams of licorice root per day has
been recommended by experts for long-term use. Larger doses
should only be taken under the supervision of your doctor.

Other Side Effects

Note that some licorice candies, as well as smokeless tobacco?
contain substantial amounts of licorice, and can cause licorice
side effects.

Whole licorice reduces testosterone in men, and therefore may
adversely affect fertility or libido. Licorice use should be
avoided by women who are pregnant or nursing, or who have had
breast cancer.

Drug Interactions

When taken with thiazide diuretic medication, licorice may
increase potassium loss. Sensitivity to digitalis glycosides may
occur with loss of potassium. Licorice should not be taken with
the following medications:

 a.. Cardiac glycosides
 b.. Stimulant laxatives
 c.. Diuretics
 d.. Steroids
 e.. Any potassium-depleting drugs

If youre considering taking licorice root or DGL, talk to your
doctor first to rule out potential drug interactions or other
concerns.

RESOURCES:
The Longwood Herbal Task Force
Massachusetts College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences
http://www.mcp.edu/herbal

National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine
National Institutes of Health
http://www.nccam.nih.gov

SOURCES:
Complementary Therapies
Massachusetts College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences
Alison Chaiken - 24 Feb 2005 05:46 GMT
>> http://myhealth.barnesjewish.org/library/healthguide/en-us/Cam/topic.asp?hwid=hn
-2122006

> I'm not sure that this is really reflective of the view of
> traditional science. The site doesn't give much details other than
> to say it is good.

The references cited at the bottom of the page do mostly look
reputable, notably _Lancet_ and _New Eng. J. Med_, not that those
journals don't publish bad or erroneous papers from time to time.  On
the other hand, a few of the references look iffy (e.g. _Arzneim
Forsch._ and books published by Prima Publishing and Integrative
Medicine Communications).  Given the cautious wording in the text, I'd
say this site looks more useful than most.  I also like Intellihealth:

http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH?d=dmtContent&c=351432&p=~br,IHW|~st,24479|~
r,WSIHW000|~b
,*|

Signature

Alison Chaiken            "From:" address above is valid.
(650) 236-2231 [daytime]    http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/
"You can't fall down when you're kneeling." -- church sign in
Brownwood, TX via Paige M.

Joy - 24 Feb 2005 06:02 GMT
And isn't this great!
Finally a discussion of the facts.
Long enough coming! YES!
I always appreciate comments from people who I have learned though the years
to trust!  And you all know who you are. Wonderful people! Thanks NSCeo, CBI
, Alison, ARoberts, Bob, Nancy, Colin , I don't want to forget a one of
you........................I could go on and on! So tell me what you think!

Joy

> > You know, my kids were told to stay away from it since it
> > interacts
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> blocking the receptors does not lead to problems with
> asthma, digestion, or infection.

http://myhealth.barnesjewish.org/library/healthguide/en-us/Cam/topic.asp?hwid=hn
-2122006


> I'm not sure that this is really reflective of the view of
> traditional science. The site doesn't give much details
> other than to say it is good. A quick pubmed search does
> show some lab evidence for an effect against viral
> infections. I couldn't find much about asthma or reflux.
Bob - 24 Feb 2005 14:56 GMT
>And isn't this great!
>Finally a discussion of the facts.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>, Alison, ARoberts, Bob, Nancy, Colin , I don't want to forget a one of
>you........................I could go on and on! So tell me what you think!

I'd say that I appreciate your taste in humble people.
(borrowing Mary's *beam*)
NorthShoreCEO - 24 Feb 2005 08:15 GMT
Licorice, like many other herbs, has been tested to show a number
of benefits, however, you have to check out to see if you're
messing up any other medication you may be on.

Here's a good source of information that includes that:

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsHerbs/Licoricech.html

The only real thing I can find with relation to asthma, however,
is this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra
ct&list_uids=11575586


Of cours, it's 2 a.m. and I'm not looking very hard, so there may
be more out there.
joe - 23 Feb 2005 18:22 GMT
herbal remedy is really good.....here is something I experienced....a
surprise to me.....It was sometime spring 3 years ago....driving down the
road I felt I was going to have an asthma attack..My wife loves strawberry
we found a kiosk selling the fruits....mild Asthma came and I did not bring
my inhaler (stupid), but started to eat the fresh strawberry...and wow I
felt breathing easement after eating the fresh strawberry and the breathing
restriction just cleared up.......another one of those off the chemical
shelf remedy.....A Natural one.......could be the vitamin c or something....

ever since I have been arming myself with Strawberries...a natural
help...still chemical dependent....but found many alternatives

>I used to have a chronic cough with asthmatic symptoms, however my doctors
>could not determine if I had asthma and no medications they gave me ever
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Cayenne Pepper and Rye Grass Extract
Colin Campbell - 24 Feb 2005 20:16 GMT
>I recently decided in a last ditch effort to look into supplements.  I tried
>a liquid herbal supplement called "licorice root" and I am also taking

Be very careful of the dosage of the licorice - the stuff is toxic in
anything but small doses.

(Hopefully somebody can supply the maximum safe dosages of the stuff.)

--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.
Bob - 24 Feb 2005 22:55 GMT
>>I recently decided in a last ditch effort to look into supplements.  I tried
>>a liquid herbal supplement called "licorice root" and I am also taking
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>(Hopefully somebody can supply the maximum safe dosages of the stuff.)

Here's a discussion from the link below (which has some good
references)

Safety Issues

Use of whole licorice has not been associated with significant adverse
effects in the short term. However, two or more weeks of use may cause
high blood pressure, fluid retention, and loss of
potassium.19-21(reference #'s in link below).  Such effects are
especially dangerous for people who take the drug digoxin or
medications that deplete the body of potassium (such as thiazide and
loop diuretics), or who have high blood pressure, heart disease,
diabetes, or kidney disease.

Current evidence indicates that individuals who wish to take whole
licorice on a long-term basis without any risk of these side effects
should not consume more than 0.2 mg of glycyrrhizin per kilogram of
body weight daily.20 For a person who weighs 130 pounds, this works
out to 12 mg of glycyrrhizin daily. Based on a typical 4% glycyrrizin
content, this is the equivalent of 0.3 grams of licorice root.

Whole licorice may have other side effects as well. For example, it
appears to reduce testosterone levels in men.11 For this reason, men
with impotence, infertility, or decreased libido may wish to avoid
this herb. Licorice may also increase both the positive and negative
effects of corticosteroids such as prednisone and hydrocortisone
cream.12-14 In addition, some evidence suggests that licorice might
affect the liver's ability to metabolize other medications as well,
but the extent of this effect has not been fully determined.15

Whole licorice possesses significant estrogenic activity, and some
evidence indicates that licorice increases risk of premature birth.17
For these reasons, it shouldn't be taken by pregnant or nursing women,
or women who have had breast cancer.16

Maximum safe doses for young children, nursing women, or those with
severe liver or kidney disease have not been established.

It is believed, but not proven, that most or all of the major side
effects of licorice are due to glycyrrhizin. For this reason, DGL has
been described as entirely safe. However, comprehensive safety studies
on DGL have not been reported.

http://www.caromont.org/16049.cfm
Alison Chaiken - 25 Feb 2005 00:55 GMT
What I can't figure out from reading labels or medical websites is how
much licorice extract is in candy.  I notice that some candies say
"artificial licorice flavor" and some say "licorice extract" on the
ingredients list.  It would be nice to know the glycyrrhizin content
of candy!

Signature

Alison Chaiken            "From:" address above is valid.
(650) 236-2231 [daytime]    http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/
"You can't fall down when you're kneeling." -- church sign in
Brownwood, TX via Paige M.

 
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