Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / July 2004
Question on Gout
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John Prince - 22 Jun 2004 13:59 GMT I was diagnosed with gout about six months ago. I've been suffering from it for about a year. I've had about five attacks in that past year, and usually they only lasted about 10-12 hours.
However I recently had an "attack" start about FIVE days ago, and it has only gotten worse each day. What do I need to do here? Just ride it out? Is five days a long time to have an attack?
When my doctor diagnosed me he told me all I could do is ride out an attack--and he prescribed me Ibuprofen for the pain--which didn't help.
This seems odd that there are no anti-flammatory drugs or something to help it go away. I could not even mind having the crystals drained from my foot as I am in extreme pain.
Please give any and all advice/experience.
Thanks!
doe - 22 Jun 2004 14:50 GMT >Subject: Question on Gout >From: emailjohnprince@yahoo.com (John Prince) [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Thanks! Med Hypotheses 1999 Nov;53(5):407-12 Effect of gradual accumulation of iron, molybdenum and sulfur, slow depletion of zinc and copper, ethanol or fructose ingestion and phlebotomy in gout.
Johnson S [Medline record in process] Gout affects mostly males over 40 years old and, occasionally, postmenopausal women. This pattern coincides with the pattern of iron accumulation. On the other hand, menstruating women are seldom afflicted by gout, because the monthly blood loss causes them to accumulate iron to a much lesser degree. Gout involves seven aspects: (1) uric acid overproduction from increased purines in the diet; (2) uric acid overproduction from ATP degradation; (3) uric acid overproduction from increased de novo synthesis of purines; (4) uric acid overproduction from increased DNA breakdown from cell damage; (5) decreased uric acid elimination, caused by molybdenum and sulfur binding to copper in the kidneys; (6) precipitation of sodium urate-iron crystals in the joints due to high ferritin and saturated transferrin and low CuZn-SOD and Cu-thionein in the joint; (7) development of inflammation, triggered by tyrosine bonding to the sodium-urate-iron crystals and being transformed by tyrosine kinase. Alcohol and iron greatly affect most of these aspects. Therefore, phlebotomy is suggested as therapy for gout patients, in order to eliminate the accumulated Fe. Furthermore, yearly blood donation is recommended for males with a family history of gout, so as to prevent Fe accumulation and avoid gout. PMID: 10616042, UI: 20081788 Who loves ya. Tom
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John Prince - 22 Jun 2004 21:44 GMT > >Subject: Question on Gout > >From: emailjohnprince@yahoo.com (John Prince) [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > PMID: 10616042, UI: 20081788 > Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, it really did not answer my question. Allow me to be more clear:
1. I have had an attack that has lasted five days the pain has moved around a bit during those five days from the base of my toe to the side of my foot and back.
2. If I sit here and do nothing--how long can I expect this to last? Forever? Another five days? A month?
3. If I go to the doctor, what can he do for me? I understand all about the uric acid, how there is medicine out there to lower it, and medicine to help prevent attacks, etc. However, I am simply wanting to what I can do, if anything, to help rid myself of this pain now (and worry about preventing future attacks later). If there is NOTHING I can do right now but "ride it out" as my doctor said, what is a normal time-frame for having this intense pain?
Thanks!
doe - 23 Jun 2004 11:14 GMT >Subject: Re: Question on Gout >From: emailjohnprince@yahoo.com (John Prince) >Date: 6/22/2004 2:44 PM Mountain Daylight Time >Message-id: <f7ec8143.0406221244.46ebc51a@posting.google.com>
>However, I am simply wanting to >what I can do, if anything, to help rid myself of this pain now (and >worry about preventing future attacks later). If there is NOTHING I >can do right now but "ride it out" as my doctor said, what is a normal >time-frame for having this intense pain? Well you should have asked your doctor ..
He seems to be adept at telling you there is nothing HE can actually .. DO .. but he should have been able to tell you how long an attack can last ..
But in the meantime ... it seems hemodilution .. mentioned in the article / phlebotomy .. IS used for .. pain ..
http://tinyurl.com/2g4f5
The rest of the urls' speak to hemodilution in general ..
http://tinyurl.com/3ye4k
http://tinyurl.com/3dvsv
http://tinyurl.com/ythha
http://tinyurl.com/2tsmp
http://tinyurl.com/2zuk4
http://tinyurl.com/35hhw
http://tinyurl.com/2y4s7
http://tinyurl.com/23ljt
Who loves ya. Tom
 Signature Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking
John Prince - 22 Jun 2004 21:44 GMT > >Subject: Question on Gout > >From: emailjohnprince@yahoo.com (John Prince) [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > PMID: 10616042, UI: 20081788 > Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, it really did not answer my question. Allow me to be more clear:
1. I have had an attack that has lasted five days the pain has moved around a bit during those five days from the base of my toe to the side of my foot and back.
2. If I sit here and do nothing--how long can I expect this to last? Forever? Another five days? A month?
3. If I go to the doctor, what can he do for me? I understand all about the uric acid, how there is medicine out there to lower it, and medicine to help prevent attacks, etc. However, I am simply wanting to what I can do, if anything, to help rid myself of this pain now (and worry about preventing future attacks later). If there is NOTHING I can do right now but "ride it out" as my doctor said, what is a normal time-frame for having this intense pain?
Thanks!
Mike - 25 Jun 2004 17:26 GMT >> >I was diagnosed with gout about six months ago. I've been suffering >> >from it for about a year. I've had about five attacks in that past [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> > >> >Thanks! =========== snip ==============
>1. I have had an attack that has lasted five days the pain has moved >around a bit during those five days from the base of my toe to the >side of my foot and back. Been there, done that.
>2. If I sit here and do nothing--how long can I expect this to last? >Forever? Another five days? A month? I've been able to arrest two major attacks within 24 hours and be close to pain-free within 3 days -- minor joint pain goes on for about two months afterwards.
>3. If I go to the doctor, what can he do for me? I understand all >about the uric acid, how there is medicine out there to lower it, and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Thanks! I had a couple of very minor attacks over the last couple of years and then bad ones in December and February. Both were real attention-getters and made me serious about avoiding another one. Did well for about three months but fell off the diet wagon last month and had another minor attack. It's that extra beer or Shimp Tempura when I've had fish or a turkey the same week that does me in. I'm getting better at sensing my body. In my bod, increasing lower back pain is the signal to clean up my diet and drinking act. Look for a signal of your own.
Maybe there's nothing new down below but the following should help within a couple of days (decreased pain will linger for a couple of weeks though):
1. During any attack, increase your water intake beyond 3 quarts per day. (Minimum of 1/2 ounce of drinking water per pound of body weight in each 24 hours.)
2. Place a moist compress on the joint every hour. Alternate cold to help with pain and warm to help get the crystals back into solution (not too effective but anything is a step in the right direction. If it's a joint in the legs or feet, use a cane to keep weight off the joint.)
3. Avoid aspirin or Tylenol -- use Ibuprophen only if it helps with the pain. When it doesn't help, it's probably worth avoiding. (Aspirin, Tylenol, alcohol and most alkaloid drugs slow down the elimination of Uric Acid.) 4. A lot of people report that eating sour chrerries helps -- 1/2 pound of fresh cherries for a day or two. Or, a can of Musselman's unsweetened sour pitted cherries. I have tried the 'cherry cure'--may have helped but, they are sour enough to give one something else to think about.
5. Diet: Stop any weight-loss diet until the attack is over. Stop booze. Stop purine producing foods (beans, meat, fish & foul) until you've got the attack arrested. Get protein from no-fat dairy or eggs. Avoid fat. Avoid fish and any game. Eat/drink 'alkaline-ash' foods (Orange juice, lemon juice, bananas, avocados, most veggies except spinach & cauliflower.) 6. Unless your doctor says otherwise, stop diuretics or any laxative or purgative colon therapy that will dehydrate your body. Increase your fiber intake. Some gout victims swear by a large garlic-fennel seed enema though and that may help. I tried it for both major attacks--don't know if it helped but I did smell of garlic for a couple of days.
7. I've got a buddy that swears by taking a potassium pill and drinking a couple of quarts of water while sitting in a sauna for an hour. Have never tried that one.
8. If you can't arrest an attack, see your doctor and ask about short term Colchicine. I've not gone this route. My doctor says it isn't pleasant--they keep increasing the dose until it works or the vomiting becomes too severe!
Second, once you're over the attack, you should be able to control things with a sensible diet. A couple of large glasses of milk each day & 2-3 quarts of water. Learn to like 1.5% fat Cottage Cheese & veggies. Avoid fish and cold cuts. Eat the purine foods in moderation--count servings of beef, chicken and pork each week and stay within an allowance that works. If this doesn't do it you should ask your doctor to place you on daily Allopurinol.
I think some of the diet info for gout victims is a bit extreme and has been influenced by the anti-purine folks (who have issues with other diseases.) I'm really feeling my own way on this stuff. Since I'm a third time victim, in the last six months I'm no expert in living without an attack.
Hope this helps....Mike
Harvey R. Stone - 22 Jun 2004 20:00 GMT > I was diagnosed with gout about six months ago. I've been suffering > from it for about a year. I've had about five attacks in that past [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Thanks! Hi,,, I am going to give you a post and reply from another newsgroup about gout. It is full of good information.
Harv
Gareth Slee wrote:
> I'm a 41 year old male suffering as I write yet another gout attack. > > I seem to be getting attacks every few months and it's getting worse. > I've tried allpurinol but I suffer stomach problems and just can't take it.
> Someone suggested taking a spoon of Bicarbonate of Soda in a > glass of water every day? > Anyone heard of this as a preventive measure? From the Arthritis Foundation:
In gout, certain chemical processes in the body are out of control. One of these affects uric acid, a normal waster product that comes from the breakdown of substances called purines, which are found in many foods as well as in all the cells of the body.
Uric acid usually circulates in the blood until it is passed into urine through the kidneys. People with gout have too much uric acid in their blood, a condition called hyperuricemia. The uric acid changes into crystals (urate crystals) that deposit in joints and other tissues.
Some of these crystals may then then fall from the joint lining into the fluid-filled space within the joint or else form in the joint fluid itself.
These free urate crystams trigger a severe inflammatory reaction, the accute attack of gout arthritis. An attack can be triggered by drinking or eating too much, by surgery, by "crash" diets, and occasionally by trauma to a joint.
Uric acid crystals can collect in the urine, forming gravel or stones. This development happens most often in people who pass too little fluid from thier bodies. People with gout may ahve high blood pressure or kidney infections, both of which can cause kidney damage. Thus, the physician must watch for the teltale signs of such damage and begin proper treatment if necessary.
MEDICATION
Three kinds of medication are used in treating gout. One catagory (Colchicine, and certain NAISDs) controls the inflammation, A second catagory, uricosuric agents, increased the body's ability to eliminate uric acid by way of the urine, thus lowering the amount of uric acid in the blood. The third kind of medication (allopurinol) decreases uric acid levels in the blood by reducing the rate at which the body produces it.
DIET
Myths abound concering the relationship between diet and gout. HERE ARE THE FACTS:
1. A person who is overweight should develop a weight-loss program under a doctor's supervision. The person should not fast or try to diet too severily. 2. Because a few foods tend to raise the uric acid level in the blood, a doctor may caution a person with gout to avoid eating them. These foods include organ meats such as kidneys, liver, and sweetbreads, as well as sardines, anchovies and meat extracts. 3. A person with gout does NOT need to avoid coffee and tea. Alcohol consumed in moderation (i.e., about two ounces of hard liquor, a can of beer, or a glass of wine per day) is permitted. 4. A high daily intake of non-alcoholic fluids is recommended (a minimum of two quarts).
RELATIVE PURINE CONTENT OF COMMON FOODS
GROUP A: (Foods with a high purine concentration) Liver Gravies Sweetbreads Broths Mussels Fish roe Anchovies Kidney Sardines Brains Herring Heart
GROUP B: (Foods with a moderate purine concentration) Meats Peas Lentils Mushrooms Yeast Beans Spinish Cauliflower Fowl Fish Asperagus Whole grain cereals
GROUP C: (Foods with negligible amounts of purine) Fruits Milk Cheese Eggs Spices and condiments (including salt and vinegar) Refined cereals and cereal products Butter and fats (in moderation) Nuts Sugar and sweets Clear vegetable soups Vegetables (except as noted above)
William Heritage - 03 Jul 2004 03:38 GMT John,
Here is a remedy for Gout that should give you relief with in 48 hours. There are those that will scoff at it, but it works. Apple Pectin You can find it in most health food store. Take 3 or 4 500mg tablets twice a day for the first two days then you can drop back to a couple a day. You can not over dose and it will not depress you or elevate you. You can take it with any other meds you might be taking. The pectin binds with the gout crystals and is removed from you body in the urine. Good Luck
William Heritage
> I was diagnosed with gout about six months ago. I've been suffering > from it for about a year. I've had about five attacks in that past [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Thanks!
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