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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / November 2005

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GP versus hospital

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Stuart - 20 Nov 2005 13:27 GMT
Briefly, I went to the hospital for first visit with rheumatologist, who
prescribed me Celebrex Celecoxib (200mgs a day), and Sulphasalazine (2000mg
a day) and Omeprazole (20mgs a day).  When I mentioned this to you all I got
some good comments, Harvey said it was good the the rheumatologist was
treating it aggresively.  The problem is that I have run out of the
Celecoxib, phoned my GP to say could he give me a subscription for some
more, and he said he was amazed that the hospital had prescribed this
medication, and said he would give me a prescription for Voltarol
(Diclofenac 50mgs) instead.  I think this is rather strange as he refererred
me to the hospital specialist in the first place, so why would he take it
upon himself to change my prescription?  I have been researching the
Celecoxib and the Voltarol on the net all weekend, and it would seem that
the potential side effects (Celecoxib - heart trouble,  versus Voltarol -
stomach trouble) have made him decide this way.  Having read it all up
though, I think I would be better off staying with the Celecoxib, especially
as I feel better since taking it.  Do you think my GP was out of order
changing my prescription? (Harv?)
One more thing I noticed, I posted a question a while ago asking if there
were any positives to having RA, and there didnt seem to be any straws at
all to grasp, but I have read that 'they' now think that one side effect of
Celecoxib is that people who are on it have far lower incidences of bowel
and lung cancer.  As far as side effects go, thats got to be pretty
encouraging hasnt it?
Thanks for any comments,
Stuart
me@privacy.net - 20 Nov 2005 14:25 GMT
>Briefly, I went to the hospital for first visit with rheumatologist, who
>prescribed me Celebrex Celecoxib (200mgs a day), and Sulphasalazine (2000mg
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>me to the hospital specialist in the first place, so why would he take it
>upon himself to change my prescription?

I agree, ask your GP if he has a letter from your RD saying what he
prescribed? and ask him why he is changing it?
If you are not satisfied with his answer, contact your RD or
specialist rheumatology nurse and ask them to take it further.
Stuart - 20 Nov 2005 16:46 GMT
>>Briefly, I went to the hospital for first visit with rheumatologist, who
>>prescribed me Celebrex Celecoxib (200mgs a day), and Sulphasalazine
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> If you are not satisfied with his answer, contact your RD or
> specialist rheumatology nurse and ask them to take it further.

Actually, I did phone the lead nurse at the hospital, told her the doc had
changed the prescription and she said that they had sent the doc a letter
explaining the medication they had prescribed.  She said the best thing to
do is speak to the doc and tell him I want to stay with what the RD
prescribed.  Just seems odd to me that I should have to do this is all.
Another thing, the doc phoned me last week and said that he had just
recieved the letter from the hospital about me (3 weeks after they sent it?)
and the letter recomended that I should go for blood tests every 4 weeks to
monitor me while I was on the new medication so I was well overdue.  When I
went for the tests the next day, the nurse said I should have been tested
WEEKLY to make sure that there were no detrimental effects to my liver!  I
am really losing confidence with all of them now.  When I spoke to RD he
said the medication would lower my resistance to infection.  I asked if I
should have a flu jab and he said yes.  When I asked the GP about a flu jab
he was surprised I thought I would need one, and said my resistance was not
lowered at all so would not need the jab!  At the end of the day, I want to
stay on the good side of these people because I know they are trying to help
me, so I do not want to piss anybody off, but it is very frustrating as it
is ultimately my health thats at stake.
Thanks for your comments
Stuart
me@privacy.net - 20 Nov 2005 17:30 GMT
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 16:46:06 -0000, "Stuart"
>> I agree, ask your GP if he has a letter from your RD saying what he
>> prescribed? and ask him why he is changing it?
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>Thanks for your comments
>Stuart

I know it's pissing you off Stuart, and if it helps, it has pissed me
off in the past as well [I have RA].
Get used to making a note of what your RD says to you when you visit
him/her? and stick to it, for he/she is the most qualified Health
professional to treat your RA.
GP's are [as we know] qualified doctors who deal with all manner of
things [General Practitioners] and all have varying degrees of
knowledge of RA. Some may have had past patients who have RA and thus
feel qualified to speak from personal experience [the problem is that
experience can sometimes be out of date, so RD knows best].

As far as Flu shots go, yes DMARDS and RA lower your immune system and
I would recommend a yearly Jab in October time. If your GP is unsure
again ask him to speak with the Rheumatology dept and take their
combined advise.

And finally, blood tests. Blood tests Stuart are a ever reoccurring
part of your newly diagnosed RA. Alas, the NHS is not up to, informing
you of this,in any other way than what your RD says. So if he says at
your meeting, have a FBC, LFTs and a CRP once a week or once a month
[or whatever he orders] until you next see me, then you will have to
arrange that with the phlebos or practice nurse [wherever you have
them]. If you don't they unfortunately won't remind you, it's down to
you, but on the plus side, if you do, you'll have lots of blood labs
for you RD to access the progress of your RA on the next visit.
If the vampires want a blood form, then your GP or RD should be able
to provide it. Once you've been doing it a while, you might even be
able to pick up several pre signed ones at your next RD visit to last
you until your next visit!

Good luck
Stuart - 20 Nov 2005 22:32 GMT
Again, thanks for the info.  It seems I will have to be on the ball at all
times with these poeple.
Cheers
Stuart
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 16:46:06 -0000, "Stuart"
>>> I agree, ask your GP if he has a letter from your RD saying what he
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
>
> Good luck
Harvey R. Stone - 20 Nov 2005 14:52 GMT
> Briefly, I went to the hospital for first visit with rheumatologist, who
> prescribed me Celebrex Celecoxib (200mgs a day), and Sulphasalazine
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Celecoxib, especially as I feel better since taking it.  Do you think my
> GP was out of order changing my prescription? (Harv?)

If the RD gave it too you,,, Yes, I do.   Your GP could of had some bad
experiences with it and maybe a talk is needed   butttttt  Doctors need to
be fully informed about what is taking place with a person and maybe they
need to talk.....

> One more thing I noticed, I posted a question a while ago asking if there
> were any positives to having RA, and there didnt seem to be any straws at
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Thanks for any comments,
> Stuart

 I like the way you think about what is taking place and some doctors like
that and some do not.  I lost my 2d RD because of questions like yours and
that was a good thing.   My third RD has been a blessing and a person I
could talk too,,, learn from,,, ect.
Harv
Stuart - 20 Nov 2005 16:47 GMT
>> Briefly, I went to the hospital for first visit with rheumatologist, who
>> prescribed me Celebrex Celecoxib (200mgs a day), and Sulphasalazine
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>that easy.  Also, I am in Cornwall (UK) so its not like i'm in a big city
>either.
Cheers
Stuart
spodosaurus - 20 Nov 2005 15:37 GMT
> Briefly, I went to the hospital for first visit with rheumatologist, who
> prescribed me Celebrex Celecoxib (200mgs a day), and Sulphasalazine (2000mg
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> the potential side effects (Celecoxib - heart trouble,  versus Voltarol -
> stomach trouble)

The heart problems with Celebrex were only found during one study when
very large dosages were used as a means of cancer treatment.

> have made him decide this way.  Having read it all up
> though, I think I would be better off staying with the Celecoxib, especially
> as I feel better since taking it.

I agree

>  Do you think my GP was out of order

Yes, that's why he's a GP and the rheumatologist is a rheumatologist. It
sounds like he hasn't been keeping up at all with the literature and is
instead basing treatment on sounds bites he hears on the news.

> changing my prescription? (Harv?)
> One more thing I noticed, I posted a question a while ago asking if there
> were any positives to having RA,

Celebrex is more an OA treatment than an RA treatment. Which do you have?

> and there didnt seem to be any straws at
> all to grasp, but I have read that 'they' now think that one side effect of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Thanks for any comments,
> Stuart

Signature

spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

Stuart - 20 Nov 2005 16:51 GMT
>> Briefly, I went to the hospital for first visit with rheumatologist, who
>> prescribed me Celebrex Celecoxib (200mgs a day), and Sulphasalazine
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> -- Thanks for your comments.  I have RA, not OA, and I think Celebrex can
> be used for both conditions but a heavier dose for RA.
Cheers
Stuart

> spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> http://www.abmdr.org.au/
> http://www.marrow.org/ 
Kelly - 20 Nov 2005 22:19 GMT
Definitely celebrex is used for both but if they were using it on its own
without a dmard that would not be appropriate for use with RA.  you need
both. Flu shot - definitely called for with any dmard - the sulfasalazine is
a dmard.  My RD think it should be for any person with RA period.  The blood
tests - monthly sounds right for sulfasalazine to start (although it has
been awhile for sulfasalazine for me and every country seems to have its own
standards) and you might find that after awhile they may change how often it
is done - depending on what the tests show.

As for gp/rd - well use your judgement.  If I were a gp and had a patient
only using an anti-inflammatory I might try voltarol however since you are
also using sulfasalazine that can upset the stomach majorily I would
personally lean towards the celebrex.  Since sulfasalazine made my stomach
so bad from experience I would head the food with pill recommendation just
to be careful.

Kelly

>>> Briefly, I went to the hospital for first visit with rheumatologist, who
>>> prescribed me Celebrex Celecoxib (200mgs a day), and Sulphasalazine
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>> http://www.abmdr.org.au/
>> http://www.marrow.org/
Stuart - 20 Nov 2005 22:35 GMT
Thanks Kelly, more excellent advise there.  I am now getting the hang of
what dmards and nsaids actually are, so can converse on a better level with
the docs.
Cheers
Stuart
> Definitely celebrex is used for both but if they were using it on its own
> without a dmard that would not be appropriate for use with RA.  you need
[quoted text clipped - 74 lines]
>>> http://www.abmdr.org.au/
>>> http://www.marrow.org/
me@privacy.net - 21 Nov 2005 00:43 GMT
>Thanks Kelly, more excellent advise there.  I am now getting the hang of
>what dmards and nsaids actually are, so can converse on a better level with
>the docs.
>Cheers
>Stuart

LOL, welcome to our world - there you go, a plus to having RA, "can
converse on a better level with the docs" I think you have got the
hang of things already Stuart.
Stuart - 21 Nov 2005 17:54 GMT
LOL, well Kelly I can but try!

>>Thanks Kelly, more excellent advise there.  I am now getting the hang of
>>what dmards and nsaids actually are, so can converse on a better level
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> converse on a better level with the docs" I think you have got the
> hang of things already Stuart.
Leslie - 21 Nov 2005 01:50 GMT
I have both RA and OA plus Fibro.  I was prescribed Ultracet (Ultram
plus Tylenol) for pain plus Celebrex.  A year later- with no previous
kidney problems- I was diagnosed with renal papillary necrosis caused
by analgesic abuse (I only took what the docs ordered and sparingly at
that!).  Discontinuing the analgesics- changed to plain Ultram and
discontinued the Celebrex- and three years later my kidneys are now a
few points below the normal range.   I am labeled as "chronic kidney
failure" and I am now plagued by UTIs and kidney infections.  Three
rheumys, my urologist and nephrologist, and my PCP have refused to give
me any NSAIDS or DMARDS because of my kidney damage.  Those blood tests
are *very* important.  Best wishes and good luck.

L.
Stuart - 21 Nov 2005 18:05 GMT
Hi Leslie - a couple of questions (as ever!)

>I have both RA and OA plus Fibro.

Bugger

 I was prescribed Ultracet (Ultram
> plus Tylenol) for pain plus Celebrex.

I thought Celebrex was an analgesic also?

 A year later- with no previous
> kidney problems- I was diagnosed with renal papillary necrosis caused
> by analgesic abuse (I only took what the docs ordered and sparingly at
> that!).

Sorry, I don't understand that bit.  Did you take your medication as the
doctor ordered or sparingly?

Discontinuing the analgesics- changed to plain Ultram and
> discontinued the Celebrex- and three years later my kidneys are now a
> few points below the normal range.   I am labeled as "chronic kidney
> failure" and I am now plagued by UTIs and kidney infections.  Three
> rheumys, my urologist and nephrologist, and my PCP have refused to give
> me any NSAIDS or DMARDS because of my kidney damage.  Those blood tests
> are *very* important.

How are you going to control your RA without NSAIDS and DMARDS?
Do your kidneys stand a good chance of full recovery ?

Those blood tests
> are *very* important.

I am coming to realise that more and more.  Thanks for the *very* though, it
will make me more responsible!

Best wishes and good luck.

Best wishes and good luck to you also Leslie, I  really hope things improve
for you.

Stuart
me@privacy.net - 21 Nov 2005 18:44 GMT
>  I was prescribed Ultracet (Ultram
>> plus Tylenol) for pain plus Celebrex.
>
>I thought Celebrex was an analgesic also?

celecoxib (Celebrex)

a cox2 nsaid
http://www.arc.org.uk/about_arth/infosheets/6248/6248.htm
for your info Stuart
Charrlygrl1 - 21 Nov 2005 18:48 GMT
Stuart,
Hello again. I'm glad to see that you are asking questions. I think
that that is a good thing.
I am also on sulfasalazine at 2000mgs per day, along with Enbrel,
prednisone, methotrexate, ultram for pain, blah blah blah.
Even on all of that, my RD has my blood tested every month. I think
that every week is a bit excessive, unless you have had previous liver
or kidney problems, or other problems where your doc would think that
more frequent monitoring was in order.
If it were me, and the Celebrex was working for me, I would call the
rhuematologist and perhaps ask him to give your GP a call. I think Ari
is right, rheumatologists are much more up to date with available
treatments then GPs are, because they have to be, (imho).
A flu shot is definitely a good idea. Also, if the sulfasalazine
doesn't work or work well enough on it's own your doc may want to add
or change meds to another DMARD or perhaps a biologic and with those
you definitely need to get a flu shot, because they suppress the immune
system so much.
Good luck Stuart, and please let us know how you are doing!
Char
spodosaurus - 21 Nov 2005 19:40 GMT
> Hi Leslie - a couple of questions (as ever!)
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> I thought Celebrex was an analgesic also?

No, that's what the lazy sods in the media would have you believe,
because it's easier for the mouth breathers to understand the term pain
killer because all their tabloid heros have had problems with pain
killers. Celebrex is an antiinflamatory. It stops the inflamation that
is causing the pain, just like an antibiotic stops the infection causing
a sore throat: an antibiotic is not a painkiller. This is a pet peeve of
mine, in case you hadn't guessed :-)

Cheers,

Ari

Signature

spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

Gwen Love - 21 Nov 2005 22:40 GMT
also a pet peeve of mine!
Gwen

>> Hi Leslie - a couple of questions (as ever!)
>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Ari
Leslie - 21 Nov 2005 22:39 GMT
Stuart-

The docs prescribed the Ultracet and Celbrex and I took the very
minimum I could take and still function.  I knew they were hard on the
body.  I control the pain with Ultram and as little as I can get by
with- nothing else.  Kidneys dictate that- no DMARDS or NSAIDS.  My
creatine clearance came up from 27 to 85--- I believe 88-120 is
considered normal.  If I avoid unnecessary meds and keep the infections
under control... I can hope???

Thank you and best of luck to you, again, too.

L.
Gwen Love - 21 Nov 2005 22:42 GMT
Leslie, I had kidney failure several years ago as a result of taking
Cipro.
It took over 6 months, but my kidneys came back and I haven't had any
trouble with them since then.  Good luck to you.
Gwen

> Stuart-
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> L.
 
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