Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / November 2005
GP versus hospital
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Stuart - 20 Nov 2005 13:27 GMT Briefly, I went to the hospital for first visit with rheumatologist, who prescribed me Celebrex Celecoxib (200mgs a day), and Sulphasalazine (2000mg a day) and Omeprazole (20mgs a day). When I mentioned this to you all I got some good comments, Harvey said it was good the the rheumatologist was treating it aggresively. The problem is that I have run out of the Celecoxib, phoned my GP to say could he give me a subscription for some more, and he said he was amazed that the hospital had prescribed this medication, and said he would give me a prescription for Voltarol (Diclofenac 50mgs) instead. I think this is rather strange as he refererred me to the hospital specialist in the first place, so why would he take it upon himself to change my prescription? I have been researching the Celecoxib and the Voltarol on the net all weekend, and it would seem that the potential side effects (Celecoxib - heart trouble, versus Voltarol - stomach trouble) have made him decide this way. Having read it all up though, I think I would be better off staying with the Celecoxib, especially as I feel better since taking it. Do you think my GP was out of order changing my prescription? (Harv?) One more thing I noticed, I posted a question a while ago asking if there were any positives to having RA, and there didnt seem to be any straws at all to grasp, but I have read that 'they' now think that one side effect of Celecoxib is that people who are on it have far lower incidences of bowel and lung cancer. As far as side effects go, thats got to be pretty encouraging hasnt it? Thanks for any comments, Stuart
me@privacy.net - 20 Nov 2005 14:25 GMT >Briefly, I went to the hospital for first visit with rheumatologist, who >prescribed me Celebrex Celecoxib (200mgs a day), and Sulphasalazine (2000mg [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >me to the hospital specialist in the first place, so why would he take it >upon himself to change my prescription? I agree, ask your GP if he has a letter from your RD saying what he prescribed? and ask him why he is changing it? If you are not satisfied with his answer, contact your RD or specialist rheumatology nurse and ask them to take it further.
Stuart - 20 Nov 2005 16:46 GMT >>Briefly, I went to the hospital for first visit with rheumatologist, who >>prescribed me Celebrex Celecoxib (200mgs a day), and Sulphasalazine [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > If you are not satisfied with his answer, contact your RD or > specialist rheumatology nurse and ask them to take it further. Actually, I did phone the lead nurse at the hospital, told her the doc had changed the prescription and she said that they had sent the doc a letter explaining the medication they had prescribed. She said the best thing to do is speak to the doc and tell him I want to stay with what the RD prescribed. Just seems odd to me that I should have to do this is all. Another thing, the doc phoned me last week and said that he had just recieved the letter from the hospital about me (3 weeks after they sent it?) and the letter recomended that I should go for blood tests every 4 weeks to monitor me while I was on the new medication so I was well overdue. When I went for the tests the next day, the nurse said I should have been tested WEEKLY to make sure that there were no detrimental effects to my liver! I am really losing confidence with all of them now. When I spoke to RD he said the medication would lower my resistance to infection. I asked if I should have a flu jab and he said yes. When I asked the GP about a flu jab he was surprised I thought I would need one, and said my resistance was not lowered at all so would not need the jab! At the end of the day, I want to stay on the good side of these people because I know they are trying to help me, so I do not want to piss anybody off, but it is very frustrating as it is ultimately my health thats at stake. Thanks for your comments Stuart
me@privacy.net - 20 Nov 2005 17:30 GMT On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 16:46:06 -0000, "Stuart"
>> I agree, ask your GP if he has a letter from your RD saying what he >> prescribed? and ask him why he is changing it? [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Thanks for your comments >Stuart I know it's pissing you off Stuart, and if it helps, it has pissed me off in the past as well [I have RA]. Get used to making a note of what your RD says to you when you visit him/her? and stick to it, for he/she is the most qualified Health professional to treat your RA. GP's are [as we know] qualified doctors who deal with all manner of things [General Practitioners] and all have varying degrees of knowledge of RA. Some may have had past patients who have RA and thus feel qualified to speak from personal experience [the problem is that experience can sometimes be out of date, so RD knows best].
As far as Flu shots go, yes DMARDS and RA lower your immune system and I would recommend a yearly Jab in October time. If your GP is unsure again ask him to speak with the Rheumatology dept and take their combined advise.
And finally, blood tests. Blood tests Stuart are a ever reoccurring part of your newly diagnosed RA. Alas, the NHS is not up to, informing you of this,in any other way than what your RD says. So if he says at your meeting, have a FBC, LFTs and a CRP once a week or once a month [or whatever he orders] until you next see me, then you will have to arrange that with the phlebos or practice nurse [wherever you have them]. If you don't they unfortunately won't remind you, it's down to you, but on the plus side, if you do, you'll have lots of blood labs for you RD to access the progress of your RA on the next visit. If the vampires want a blood form, then your GP or RD should be able to provide it. Once you've been doing it a while, you might even be able to pick up several pre signed ones at your next RD visit to last you until your next visit!
Good luck
Stuart - 20 Nov 2005 22:32 GMT Again, thanks for the info. It seems I will have to be on the ball at all times with these poeple. Cheers Stuart
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 16:46:06 -0000, "Stuart" >>> I agree, ask your GP if he has a letter from your RD saying what he [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > Good luck Harvey R. Stone - 20 Nov 2005 14:52 GMT > Briefly, I went to the hospital for first visit with rheumatologist, who > prescribed me Celebrex Celecoxib (200mgs a day), and Sulphasalazine [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Celecoxib, especially as I feel better since taking it. Do you think my > GP was out of order changing my prescription? (Harv?) If the RD gave it too you,,, Yes, I do. Your GP could of had some bad experiences with it and maybe a talk is needed butttttt Doctors need to be fully informed about what is taking place with a person and maybe they need to talk.....
> One more thing I noticed, I posted a question a while ago asking if there > were any positives to having RA, and there didnt seem to be any straws at [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks for any comments, > Stuart I like the way you think about what is taking place and some doctors like that and some do not. I lost my 2d RD because of questions like yours and that was a good thing. My third RD has been a blessing and a person I could talk too,,, learn from,,, ect. Harv
Stuart - 20 Nov 2005 16:47 GMT >> Briefly, I went to the hospital for first visit with rheumatologist, who >> prescribed me Celebrex Celecoxib (200mgs a day), and Sulphasalazine [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >that easy. Also, I am in Cornwall (UK) so its not like i'm in a big city >either. Cheers Stuart
spodosaurus - 20 Nov 2005 15:37 GMT > Briefly, I went to the hospital for first visit with rheumatologist, who > prescribed me Celebrex Celecoxib (200mgs a day), and Sulphasalazine (2000mg [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > the potential side effects (Celecoxib - heart trouble, versus Voltarol - > stomach trouble) The heart problems with Celebrex were only found during one study when very large dosages were used as a means of cancer treatment.
> have made him decide this way. Having read it all up > though, I think I would be better off staying with the Celecoxib, especially > as I feel better since taking it. I agree
> Do you think my GP was out of order Yes, that's why he's a GP and the rheumatologist is a rheumatologist. It sounds like he hasn't been keeping up at all with the literature and is instead basing treatment on sounds bites he hears on the news.
> changing my prescription? (Harv?) > One more thing I noticed, I posted a question a while ago asking if there > were any positives to having RA, Celebrex is more an OA treatment than an RA treatment. Which do you have?
> and there didnt seem to be any straws at > all to grasp, but I have read that 'they' now think that one side effect of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Thanks for any comments, > Stuart
 Signature spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/
Stuart - 20 Nov 2005 16:51 GMT >> Briefly, I went to the hospital for first visit with rheumatologist, who >> prescribed me Celebrex Celecoxib (200mgs a day), and Sulphasalazine [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > -- Thanks for your comments. I have RA, not OA, and I think Celebrex can > be used for both conditions but a heavier dose for RA. Cheers Stuart
> spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > http://www.abmdr.org.au/ > http://www.marrow.org/ Kelly - 20 Nov 2005 22:19 GMT Definitely celebrex is used for both but if they were using it on its own without a dmard that would not be appropriate for use with RA. you need both. Flu shot - definitely called for with any dmard - the sulfasalazine is a dmard. My RD think it should be for any person with RA period. The blood tests - monthly sounds right for sulfasalazine to start (although it has been awhile for sulfasalazine for me and every country seems to have its own standards) and you might find that after awhile they may change how often it is done - depending on what the tests show.
As for gp/rd - well use your judgement. If I were a gp and had a patient only using an anti-inflammatory I might try voltarol however since you are also using sulfasalazine that can upset the stomach majorily I would personally lean towards the celebrex. Since sulfasalazine made my stomach so bad from experience I would head the food with pill recommendation just to be careful.
Kelly
>>> Briefly, I went to the hospital for first visit with rheumatologist, who >>> prescribed me Celebrex Celecoxib (200mgs a day), and Sulphasalazine [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] >> http://www.abmdr.org.au/ >> http://www.marrow.org/ Stuart - 20 Nov 2005 22:35 GMT Thanks Kelly, more excellent advise there. I am now getting the hang of what dmards and nsaids actually are, so can converse on a better level with the docs. Cheers Stuart
> Definitely celebrex is used for both but if they were using it on its own > without a dmard that would not be appropriate for use with RA. you need [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] >>> http://www.abmdr.org.au/ >>> http://www.marrow.org/ me@privacy.net - 21 Nov 2005 00:43 GMT >Thanks Kelly, more excellent advise there. I am now getting the hang of >what dmards and nsaids actually are, so can converse on a better level with >the docs. >Cheers >Stuart LOL, welcome to our world - there you go, a plus to having RA, "can converse on a better level with the docs" I think you have got the hang of things already Stuart.
Stuart - 21 Nov 2005 17:54 GMT LOL, well Kelly I can but try!
>>Thanks Kelly, more excellent advise there. I am now getting the hang of >>what dmards and nsaids actually are, so can converse on a better level [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > converse on a better level with the docs" I think you have got the > hang of things already Stuart. Leslie - 21 Nov 2005 01:50 GMT I have both RA and OA plus Fibro. I was prescribed Ultracet (Ultram plus Tylenol) for pain plus Celebrex. A year later- with no previous kidney problems- I was diagnosed with renal papillary necrosis caused by analgesic abuse (I only took what the docs ordered and sparingly at that!). Discontinuing the analgesics- changed to plain Ultram and discontinued the Celebrex- and three years later my kidneys are now a few points below the normal range. I am labeled as "chronic kidney failure" and I am now plagued by UTIs and kidney infections. Three rheumys, my urologist and nephrologist, and my PCP have refused to give me any NSAIDS or DMARDS because of my kidney damage. Those blood tests are *very* important. Best wishes and good luck.
L.
Stuart - 21 Nov 2005 18:05 GMT Hi Leslie - a couple of questions (as ever!)
>I have both RA and OA plus Fibro. Bugger
I was prescribed Ultracet (Ultram
> plus Tylenol) for pain plus Celebrex. I thought Celebrex was an analgesic also?
A year later- with no previous
> kidney problems- I was diagnosed with renal papillary necrosis caused > by analgesic abuse (I only took what the docs ordered and sparingly at > that!). Sorry, I don't understand that bit. Did you take your medication as the doctor ordered or sparingly?
Discontinuing the analgesics- changed to plain Ultram and
> discontinued the Celebrex- and three years later my kidneys are now a > few points below the normal range. I am labeled as "chronic kidney > failure" and I am now plagued by UTIs and kidney infections. Three > rheumys, my urologist and nephrologist, and my PCP have refused to give > me any NSAIDS or DMARDS because of my kidney damage. Those blood tests > are *very* important. How are you going to control your RA without NSAIDS and DMARDS? Do your kidneys stand a good chance of full recovery ?
Those blood tests
> are *very* important. I am coming to realise that more and more. Thanks for the *very* though, it will make me more responsible!
Best wishes and good luck.
Best wishes and good luck to you also Leslie, I really hope things improve for you.
Stuart
me@privacy.net - 21 Nov 2005 18:44 GMT > I was prescribed Ultracet (Ultram >> plus Tylenol) for pain plus Celebrex. > >I thought Celebrex was an analgesic also? celecoxib (Celebrex)
a cox2 nsaid http://www.arc.org.uk/about_arth/infosheets/6248/6248.htm for your info Stuart
Charrlygrl1 - 21 Nov 2005 18:48 GMT Stuart, Hello again. I'm glad to see that you are asking questions. I think that that is a good thing. I am also on sulfasalazine at 2000mgs per day, along with Enbrel, prednisone, methotrexate, ultram for pain, blah blah blah. Even on all of that, my RD has my blood tested every month. I think that every week is a bit excessive, unless you have had previous liver or kidney problems, or other problems where your doc would think that more frequent monitoring was in order. If it were me, and the Celebrex was working for me, I would call the rhuematologist and perhaps ask him to give your GP a call. I think Ari is right, rheumatologists are much more up to date with available treatments then GPs are, because they have to be, (imho). A flu shot is definitely a good idea. Also, if the sulfasalazine doesn't work or work well enough on it's own your doc may want to add or change meds to another DMARD or perhaps a biologic and with those you definitely need to get a flu shot, because they suppress the immune system so much. Good luck Stuart, and please let us know how you are doing! Char
spodosaurus - 21 Nov 2005 19:40 GMT > Hi Leslie - a couple of questions (as ever!) > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I thought Celebrex was an analgesic also? No, that's what the lazy sods in the media would have you believe, because it's easier for the mouth breathers to understand the term pain killer because all their tabloid heros have had problems with pain killers. Celebrex is an antiinflamatory. It stops the inflamation that is causing the pain, just like an antibiotic stops the infection causing a sore throat: an antibiotic is not a painkiller. This is a pet peeve of mine, in case you hadn't guessed :-)
Cheers,
Ari
 Signature spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/
Gwen Love - 21 Nov 2005 22:40 GMT also a pet peeve of mine! Gwen
>> Hi Leslie - a couple of questions (as ever!) >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Ari Leslie - 21 Nov 2005 22:39 GMT Stuart-
The docs prescribed the Ultracet and Celbrex and I took the very minimum I could take and still function. I knew they were hard on the body. I control the pain with Ultram and as little as I can get by with- nothing else. Kidneys dictate that- no DMARDS or NSAIDS. My creatine clearance came up from 27 to 85--- I believe 88-120 is considered normal. If I avoid unnecessary meds and keep the infections under control... I can hope???
Thank you and best of luck to you, again, too.
L.
Gwen Love - 21 Nov 2005 22:42 GMT Leslie, I had kidney failure several years ago as a result of taking Cipro. It took over 6 months, but my kidneys came back and I haven't had any trouble with them since then. Good luck to you. Gwen
> Stuart- > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > L.
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