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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / October 2005

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Aspartame

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dawn - 27 Sep 2005 23:30 GMT
My daughter came home with this infor for her nutrution class about the
issue of aspartame and muscle pain.  Worse for arthritics/  Have any of
you experimente with not using it to see what happens.  Hopefully this
does not start a bunch of loonies tuning in.  LOL
Dawn0
d'huit - 27 Sep 2005 23:32 GMT
LOL!  laughing too hard, about the loonies, to think.

kate
> My daughter came home with this infor for her nutrution class about the
> issue of aspartame and muscle pain.  Worse for arthritics/  Have any of
> you experimente with not using it to see what happens.  Hopefully this
> does not start a bunch of loonies tuning in.  LOL
> Dawn0
spodosaurus - 28 Sep 2005 10:33 GMT
> My daughter came home with this infor for her nutrution class about the
> issue of aspartame and muscle pain.  Worse for arthritics/  Have any of
> you experimente with not using it to see what happens.  Hopefully this
> does not start a bunch of loonies tuning in.  LOL
> Dawn0

Well, they use a massively high dose of a phenylalanine mustard thingo
during chemo prior to transplant to kill remaining marrow and immune
cells, so I figured all the diet soda I drink probably wasn't a good
thing, and I stopped drinking diet soda for a few months. Absolutely no
change. I think unless you're drinking massive amounts of foods
containng nutrasweet or are an IV drug user who prefers to inject
aspartame rather than any of the softer drugs like heroin, you'll
probably be okay :-) That said, there are individual differences in
sensitivies to a lot of things! Personally, I noticed no difference in
arthritis pain and there were no significant blood count changes from
removing aspartame from my diet for several months. I prefer to get my
calories from nutritious foods, so I like diet sodas. If she can ask her
teacher about the study I can try and find it in one of the online
subscriptions my university has and report back after reading it.

Cheers,

Ari

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spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

MikesBrain - 28 Sep 2005 11:22 GMT
2005-09-27, Responding to dawn...
> My daughter came home with this infor for her nutrution class about the
> issue of aspartame and muscle pain.  Worse for arthritics/  Have any of
> you experimente with not using it to see what happens.  Hopefully this
> does not start a bunch of loonies tuning in.  LOL
> Dawn0

Simply entering "aspartame" into Google produced a number of
interesting hits. What struck me was the clear divide
between the "Warning!" stuff, and the "Don't worry!" stuff,
and how the latter has an uncanny resemblance to
press-release material.

Kinda depends on wether you're ok using your body as a
possible experimental lab till all the details are in.

I'll just stick to my health-giving cigarettes for now. ;\

Thinks: Does my body actually NEED formaldehyde and formic
       acid supplimentation? 8(

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Kelly Cobb - 28 Sep 2005 14:16 GMT
> My daughter came home with this infor for her nutrution class about the
> issue of aspartame and muscle pain.  Worse for arthritics/  Have any of
> you experimente with not using it to see what happens.  Hopefully this
> does not start a bunch of loonies tuning in.  LOL
> Dawn0

My mother has sometimes severe IBS and found that when she stopped using
Aspartame products, switching to Splenda, that the worst of her symptoms
went away. She still has the occasional flare up, but the day-to-day
discomfort is much better.

Kelly C.
spodosaurus - 28 Sep 2005 14:16 GMT
>>My daughter came home with this infor for her nutrution class about the
>>issue of aspartame and muscle pain.  Worse for arthritics/  Have any of
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Kelly C.

Like me and peanuts....but oh how I LOOOOOVE them....

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spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

Nann Bell - 28 Sep 2005 15:18 GMT
> My daughter came home with this infor for her nutrution class about the
> issue of aspartame and muscle pain.  Worse for arthritics/  Have any of
> you experimente with not using it to see what happens.  Hopefully this
> does not start a bunch of loonies tuning in.  LOL
> Dawn0

I have known of people with sensitivities to aspertame.  One co-worker's
child had horrible headaches from it.  But it appears to be an an individual
thing, not widespread.  Some of the "health nuts" claim that aspertame causes
MS, or MS type symptoms in many people.  The last time I came across that
claim, I went to the MS Society's website and found a statement from them
disclaiming all the supposed evidence and stating that so far research just
hasn't bourne out this claim.
(http://www.nationalmssociety.org/headlines-aspartame.asp)

http://www.aspartame.org also has a lot of info.  

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spodosaurus - 28 Sep 2005 15:23 GMT
>>My daughter came home with this infor for her nutrution class about the
>>issue of aspartame and muscle pain.  Worse for arthritics/  Have any of
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I have known of people with sensitivities to aspertame.  One co-worker's
> child had horrible headaches from it.

Yep. A very small number of people are sensitive to phenylalanine. These
folks should avoid aspartame (like people who are sensitive to MSG
should avoid chinese restaurants that use MSG).

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spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

Charrlygrl1 - 28 Sep 2005 15:30 GMT
I checked at www.snopes.com, which is a great place to check on rumors
and such.
There is a debunked email there regarding aspertame and MS and lupus.
However, I have heard of this before, as an aggravation for arthritis.
I think it's just one of those things: different things affect
different people differently.

Charlene
MikesBrain - 28 Sep 2005 23:14 GMT
2005-09-28, Responding to Charrlygrl1...
> I checked at www.snopes.com, which is a great place to check on rumors
> and such.
> There is a debunked email there regarding aspertame and MS and lupus.
> However, I have heard of this before, as an aggravation for arthritis.
> I think it's just one of those things: different things affect
> different people differently.

I got this from
http://www.drdahlman.com/articles/view_article.asp?id=89

[...]
Food allergies are developed by continued exposure to foods
that make their way through your digestive system into your
bloodstream and create an immune system response. We have
tested blood for many years looking for the presence of
indicators of food and other allergies. It will be this
immune system reaction that will cause human illness many
years from now, and to most physicians, the connection will
never be clear. At this time, we have no evidence of this
reaction, because time and exposure to these substances is
lacking.

The allergy argument is inconsequential when compared to
the historical track record of modified foods. We need only
to look at margarine, NutraSweet (aspartame) and Olestra to
see that it is not unfounded fears, but good old down home
common sense that dictates our avoidance. Margarine, 35
years ago, was touted as the sensible substitute to butter,
but because of the hydrogenation process necessary to make
it solid at room temperature, trans fatty acids were created
that actually raised cholesterol levels in humans. Exactly
the opposite of what we were told.

NutraSweet, a central nervous system toxin, its effects not
Urban myth as Dr. Dean Edell stated on the Today Show a
couple of weeks ago, is a known cause of headaches, seizures
and other neurological symptoms. The methanol in it converts
to formic acid and then formaldehyde at temperatures above
86 degrees. The two naturally occurring amino acids,
phenylalanine and aspartic acid used in NutraSweet cross the
blood brain barrier and because they are without their
fellow amino acids that accompany them in nature, reactions
occur. Many neurological symptoms can be eliminated or
improved when this product is avoided.
[...]

...FWIW

Do remember that a regular trick of mega-corps is to
actually generate their own negative publicity so they can
"reassure" people when they "debunk" their own counter-spin.
A nice cheap and effective way of muddying the waters of the
internet etc. Any real info will tend to get lost/flushed
along with the pre-generated stuff.

When it comes to the "could it be" question, we might
remember the "questions" that were not asked about
cigarettes for years and years... and old chestnut, but
still relevent.

BTW... Who is behind snopes.com these days?
      Just a thought...

Now where did I put that pack of ciggies?

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* Mike's (curious) Brain  @ http://tinyurl.com/4872c
- Have a nice day, it really does do you good! :)

spodosaurus - 29 Sep 2005 02:12 GMT
> 2005-09-28, Responding to Charrlygrl1...
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> I got this from

<unsubstantiated ranting snipped>

Don't we have Tommah to post that stuff on this group for us already?
It's pseudo-science scare tactics. Use just enough big words and a few
facts out of context and oooo ahhhhh be afraid!

Signature

spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

MikesBrain - 29 Sep 2005 11:07 GMT
2005-09-29, Responding to spodosaurus...
>> 2005-09-28, Responding to Charrlygrl1...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> It's pseudo-science scare tactics. Use just enough big words and a few
> facts out of context and oooo ahhhhh be afraid!

1/ You didn't snip any ranting. You snipped a quoted passage.

2/ You missed my point by a mile. Go read my post again huh? ;\

(There are several levels to it if you think about it.)

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* Another squeaking wheel @ http://tinyurl.com/6bf56
* Mike's (curious) Brain  @ http://tinyurl.com/4872c
- Have a nice day, it really does do you good! :)

Charrlygrl1 - 29 Sep 2005 12:18 GMT
Responding to Mike:

I have no doubt that there are food allergies out there causing
problems: many of which we may not even be aware.
However, the debunked email I was referring to was claiming aspertame
as the cause of MS, lupus, etc...
I have copied the debunk info below.
Again, I have no doubt that allergies can cause some problems, just not
as many problems or perhaps the specific problems mentioned in the
email: lupus and MS. IF you go to the snopes site, the below references
are linked to the debunked email story.
Now I am looking for my smokes!
Char

Is Aspartame Safe?   (FDA):
To date, FDA has not determined any consistent pattern of symptoms that
can be attributed to the use of aspartame, nor is the agency aware of
any recent studies that clearly show safety problems.
Aspartame and the Internet   (The Lancet):
Our research revealed over 6000 web sites that mention aspartame, with
many hundreds alleging aspartame to be the cause of multiple sclerosis,
lupus erythematosis, Gulf War Syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome, brain
tumours, and diabetes mellitus, among many others. Virtually all of the
information offered is anecdotal, from anonymous sources and is
scientifically implausible.
ACSH Debunks Internet Health Hoax   (American Council on Science and
Health):
Health scare artists have found a whole new medium for terrorizing the
public - the Internet. Individuals in search of accurate health
information may literally become caught in the Web, where health hoaxes
and urban medical myths run rampant. The health scare messages are
always the same - whatever it is, it will make you sick.
Beware The E-Mail Hoax: The Evils Of Nutrasweet (Aspartame)   (Dr. Dean
Edell):
A highly inaccurate "chain letter" is being circulated via e-mail
warning the reader of the health dangers of aspartame (Nutrasweet) diet
drinks.

There is so much scientific untruth in it, it's scary. Be careful,
because others know how to manipulate you by this. Just because
something is beyond your comprehension doesn't mean it is scientific.

FDA Statement on Aspartame   (FDA):
Analysis of the National Cancer Institute's public data base on cancer
incidence in the United States - the SEER Program - does not
support an association between the use of aspartame and increased
incidence of brain tumors.
Study Reaffirms Safety of Aspartame   (MIT News):
Even daily large doses of the high-intensity sweetener aspartame, also
known as NutraSweet, had no adverse effect on study subjects' health
and well-being, a visiting scientist at MIT reported in the American
Journal of Clinical Nutrition last week.

"We conclude that aspartame is safe for the general population," said
Paul A. Spiers, visiting scientist in the Clinical Research Center
(CRC).
A Web of Deceit   (TIME magazine):
A widely disseminated e-mail by a "Nancy Markle" links aspartame to
Alzheimer's, birth defects, brain cancer, diabetes, Gulf War syndrome,
lupus, multiple sclerosis and seizures. Right away, the long list
warrants skepticism. Just as no single chemical cures everything, none
causes everything.
Last
MikesBrain - 29 Sep 2005 21:21 GMT
2005-09-29, Responding to Charrlygrl1...
> Responding to Mike:
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Now I am looking for my smokes!
> Char

I'm aware of the debunked email thingie. There's a lot of
this kind of thing about, partially, I'm sure, invented to
get hits on pointless websites.

The matter I was refering to was the practice (it happens
more than you may think) of "vested interests" covertly
putting out negative publicity "on the side", possibly in
the form of an email like the one discussed on this thread,
with the actual intention of debunking it later, therefore
"putting to bed" any concern about the product in question.

If I ran a mega-corp, I'd sure as hell be doing this one, to
"head off" competitors doing it first, and to give me the
edge if and when the downside of the product became
apparent.

Therefore...

When a huge "hoax" does the rounds, followed by an even more
popular debunking (how many times have you only become aware
of a hoax due to the debunking?), I get a little suspicious
that something else of interest may be getting chucked in
the bin along with the garbage.

Now I wonder how many "scares" there were about stuff like
Vioxx and the like? We KNOW the industry tricks that were
played by the tobbacco companies, and one thing is for sure,
the spin game will be far more sophisticated these days.

Just to add a little teaser...

Nobody yet has said outright that aspartame does NOT in any
way turn into something that can harm you. The direct and
absolute denial has not happened. What HAS been published as
"the truth" never quite gets there if you read it carefully.

And now a word about Monsanto Corp... ;\

...after a quick ciggie out the back door... 8Q

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Charrlygrl1 - 01 Oct 2005 12:52 GMT
Point taken. I can see that you have about the same amount of trust in
these corporations as I do.
Ha!!
Oddly enough, Monsanto has a base (subdivision called Solutia) which is
not too far from where I work. Not very long ago, perhaps 5 years,
something happened there and a chemical was released into the air.
Unfortunately, it drifted across the street where a huge bulk mail
facility is located. Many, many people had to be hospitalized, but in
the end were ok.
So Monsanto says, anyway-
Char
spodosaurus - 01 Oct 2005 13:14 GMT
> Point taken. I can see that you have about the same amount of trust in
> these corporations as I do.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> So Monsanto says, anyway-
> Char

*shudder*

I hear that and I think "Bhopal" and "three mile island" (where they
used the mean cancer scores of a population surrounding the reactor to
obfuscate the massive spike in cancers of the minority of those exposed
- they deliberately did not study those in the narrow wedge where the
radiation was blown by the wind, they used map radii and averaged
thousands of people with no exposure to ensure that the statistics
showed nothing).

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spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

MikesBrain - 01 Oct 2005 21:59 GMT
2005-10-01, Responding to spodosaurus...
>> Point taken. I can see that you have about the same amount of trust in
>> these corporations as I do.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> thousands of people with no exposure to ensure that the statistics
> showed nothing).

Hey! Thats GOOD radiation! Made in America! It keeps ya warm
in winter, and its FREE dammit! What more d'ya want!?!

If you run out, we can let you have some of our Brit-Rad
from Windscale/Selafield/SunnyPowerCo/???. ;\

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- Have a nice day, it really does do you good! :)

MikesBrain - 01 Oct 2005 21:56 GMT
2005-10-01, Responding to Charrlygrl1...
> Point taken. I can see that you have about the same amount
> of trust in these corporations as I do.

If they wern't corporations, they'd be armies. For some, the
average death-toll would not be remarkabley different.

(Grim tonight or what?!)

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- Have a nice day, it really does do you good! :)

spodosaurus - 01 Oct 2005 13:11 GMT
> 2005-09-29, Responding to spodosaurus...
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> 1/ You didn't snip any ranting. You snipped a quoted passage.

And what was quoted was misinformation and half truths. It's scare
mongering regarding aspartame: claiming that it's converted to
formaldehyde in our bodies because our body temperature is over the
temperature you quoted is absolute crap. Claiming it's a neurotoxin is
crap, too, as water is deadly in high doses as well. It's like I said in
another post, if you have problems with nutrasweet then avoid it, just
like people who have reactions to MSG should avoid that food additive as
well!

> 2/ You missed my point by a mile. Go read my post again huh? ;\

So your point was that the manufacturers of aspartame create scare
mongering websites and then debunk them?

> (There are several levels to it if you think about it.)

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spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

MikesBrain - 01 Oct 2005 21:54 GMT
2005-10-01, Responding to spodosaurus...

[...]
>>><unsubstantiated ranting snipped>
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> avoid it, just like people who have reactions to MSG
> should avoid that food additive as well!

You're seeing something I'm not posting here. You probably
missed the FWIW bit?

>> 2/ You missed my point by a mile. Go read my post again huh? ;\
>
> So your point was that the manufacturers of aspartame create scare
> mongering websites and then debunk them?

Well, I did kinda say that possibility was what I was
talking about didn't I?

My point in making the point I made (?) was to point out
that just because its on snopes, doesn't mean the whole
thing is dead. Though I'm pretty sure I'm not about to turn
into a flesh-eating zombie due to that can of diet-croak I
glugged a few years back, one needs to keep in mind that
sometimes the "paranoid rantings" may have a grain of truth
in them, or may even be diverting attention from something
that actually does need looking it.

If I were a huge conglomo, I'd be either friends with, or a
clear potential threat to, the main online outfits that
appear to be independant, and I'd make sure they all got a
regular does of misinformation just to "queer" their
reputations for accuracy. Its common practice, so therefore
one should treat all online "info" with caution. Independant
stops when the lawyers point out that Conglomo could afford
to bury you with less money than they'd lose if they didn't.
Its a numbers game and all the players know it, including
those punting for a job with the very corporations they
"expose" etc. (Study the UK Guardian NewPaper, for instance,
and note how it has avoided being wiped out by conglomo
seige lawsuits.  Interesting, that one...)

And BTW, I didn't "claim" anything, ok? ;\

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