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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / July 2005

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Enbrel = Weight Gain???

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mdrawson - 26 Jul 2005 01:05 GMT
Anyone know anything --- have any experience --- re how much tonnage Enbrel
adds?

I understand it adds some weight, but have no idea whether this is a little,
a lot --- a minor issue, a major factor?

Your input and wisdom appreciated.
RoseB - 26 Jul 2005 01:28 GMT
>I understand it adds some weight, but have no idea whether this is a little,
>a lot --- a minor issue, a major factor?
>
>Your input and wisdom appreciated.

I am not sure that weight gain is associated with enbrel. We have had
people that have lost weight. Feeling better allowed them to exercise
more and burn more calories.

If a person with RA is thin and underweight as part of their disease,
then I think we can assume that feeling better as a result of the
enbrel could cause an increase in appetite and a resulting weight
gain.

I don't know of any studies that show a weight gain is associated with
enbrel use, nor is  it listed in the side effect profile.
    Rose   @}>->--
    Being educated means that rather than fearing the unknown, one seeks to understand it. RB

    Please remove "Ima" to reply.
Harvey R. Stone - 26 Jul 2005 01:55 GMT
> Anyone know anything --- have any experience --- re how much tonnage
> Enbrel adds?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Your input and wisdom appreciated.

  IMO,,,, it does not add weight like lets say,,, prednisone.  It is our
knife and fork that causes weight gain and you know who controls that.
Harv
Newsgroup Spambuster - 26 Jul 2005 03:21 GMT
Actually, not to step on Rose or Harv's toes, but we have had this
discussion on a couple of occasions before, and some people do seem to
have a noticeable weight gain once starting Enbrel.   I believe Melinda
was the first one to raise this issue and at one point we took a little
survey and there were several who had definite weight gain with Enbrel
that resolved once they stopped the enbrel.  

So, Mrdawson, there are some people who do experience this side effect
(weight gain) with enbrel, and there are some who don't.   The amount of
weight gain has also been variable with the individuals that have
experienced the issue with enbrel, so it is hard to say how much of a
weight gain you might have.  

You may want to discuss it with your RD or pcp or whoever is overseeing
your care if you are concerned about the issue.

Best of luck to you!!!

Donna G
RoseB - 26 Jul 2005 04:27 GMT
>Actually, not to step on Rose or Harv's toes, but we have had this
>discussion on a couple of occasions before, and some people do seem to
>have a noticeable weight gain once starting Enbrel.  

I stand corrected. I had forgotten about that. Thanks for reminding me
Donna.

I am having my own issues and have been wondering if it is due to
enbrel. I have been having insomnia- more than my usual. For several
nights lately I have not slept at all with my mind racing from one
worry to the next. While I can usually function relatively well with a
minimal amount of sleep, I am not doing so well this time. I spend the
whole day in that place between wakefulness and sleep, with an
inability to really fall asleep and get it over with.

I have done very well on enbrel, and would be disappointed if that
were the culprit. Perhaps that semi- conscious state causes me to be
less than my usual gracious self.

    Rose   @}>->--
    Being educated means that rather than fearing the unknown, one seeks to understand it. RB

    Please remove "Ima" to reply.
tq - 26 Jul 2005 05:43 GMT
FRom the American College of Rheumatology (ACR):
Weight Gain Associated with the Administration of Tumor Necrosis Factor

Alpha Antagonists in Patients with Rheumatoid Arthritis
Category:  17 RA-treatment
J E Fonseca1, H Canhão2, M Cruz1, B Valério1, W Castelão2, T
Mesquita1, C
Resende2, C Macieira2, J A Pereira da Silva2, J Branco1, M Viana
Queiroz2
1Hospital Egas Moniz, Lisbon, Portugal2Hospital de Santa Maria, Lisbon,

Portugal
Presentation Number: 367
Poster Board Number: 367
Keywords: Rheumatoid arthritis, Tumor necrosis factor alpha, Weight
gain
Introduction: Tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF a) is able to block
lipoprotein lipase activity in cultured adipocytes and in animal models
its
administration causes cachexia, through the induction of lipid and
protein
catabolism, enhanced release of free fatty acids and suppression of
appetite. Having considered these known biochemical effects of TNF a it
is
reasonable to expect that TNF a antagonist therapy might cause a change
in
the metabolism resulting in an increased weight.
Objectives: Clarify if TNF a antagonist therapy is associated with
weight
gain.
Material and Methods: We have prospectively evaluated 46 rheumatoid
arthritis patients submitted to this therapy (30 treated with
intravenous
infliximab 3mg/Kg 0, 2, 6 and then every 8 weeks and 16 with
subcutaneous
etanercept 25 mg twice weekly).
Results: 6 patients were males and 40 were females, with a mean age of
53.1
± 12.6 years. DAS28 mean initial value for the patients treated with
infliximab was 6.1 ± 1.3 and for the patients treated with etanercept
was
6.9 ± 1.1. Prednisone mean initial dose was 8.1 ± 3.9 mg/day
(infliximab)
and 8.0 ± 3.3 mg/day (etanercept). After a mean follow-up of 10.7 ±
4.8
months DAS28 mean final value was 3.5 ± 1.4 for the infliximab group
and 3.9
± 1.1 for the etanercept group (a significative reduction from the
baseline
DAS28, p<0.01). After this period of therapy the prednisone mean final
dose
was 6.2 ± 3.8 mg/day for the infliximab group and 6.4 ± 1.8 mg/day
for the
etanercept group (a significative reduction from the baseline
prednisone
dose, p<0.05). During this period of time the methotrexate dose
remained
stable. 8 patients had to stop therapy after 3 months: 5 patients in
the
infliximab group (sepsis, heart failure, central nervous system tumor,
sudden death, lack of efficacy), 3 patients in the etanercept group
(septic
arthritis, cervix carcinoma, hip fracture). The mean initial weight was
70.1
± 13.7 Kg and the mean final weight was 73.3 ± 13.9 Kg, corresponding
to a
mean weight gain of 3.2 ± 3.7 Kg (p<0.001, 95% mean confidence
interval 2.0-
4.3). The weight gain was observed in 40 (87%) patients. When a
separate
analysis of the 2 groups was performed we verified also a significative

weight gain. (respectively, infliximab group from 71.9 ± 12.9 Kg to
74.9 ±
13.7 Kg, p<0.001, mean confidence interval 95% 1.6-4.3; etanercept
group
from 67.0 ± 14.9 Kg to 70.5 ± 14.2 Kg, p=0.004, mean confidence
interval 95%
1.3-5.7).
Discussion: Despite the reduction in the prednisone dose this group of
patients suffered weight gain. Although the improvement of a systemic
disease, such as rheumatoid arthritis, can increase the appetite and
weight,
we hypothesize that this effect might be enhanced by a catabolic
suppression
and/or an anabolic effect induced by TNF a antagonist therapy.
JXStern - 30 Jul 2005 17:14 GMT
>Discussion: Despite the reduction in the prednisone dose this group of
>patients suffered weight gain. Although the improvement of a systemic
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>suppression
>and/or an anabolic effect induced by TNF a antagonist therapy.

Very interesting article, tq, and it really answers the question!

But now we need an answer why even more people taking Enbrel don't see
the weight gain!

J.
Newsgroup Spambuster - 30 Jul 2005 21:15 GMT
Rose,

Hmmmm.............that sleeplessness is not a good thing.  

Did you notice that it seemed to start around the same time that you
started the enbrel?    I wonder if you stopped the enbrel for just a
week if you would sleep better?

Could the not sleeping possibly be due to something else like worrying
about your family or stress from the attack you endured?

Yikes, I hate to think of you loosing sleep especially since the
beginning of school is not that far off and you need your rest not only
for you, but in order to deal with all those little children.

Praying you can get this all sorted out soon and start getting some real
restful sleep!!!

Hugs!

Donna G
Joe Gabriel - 26 Jul 2005 18:23 GMT
No weight gain for me. I've been on it for about 7 months now and
actually weigh a little less than when I started.

Joe

> Actually, not to step on Rose or Harv's toes, but we have had this
> discussion on a couple of occasions before, and some people do seem to
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Donna G

      
Duckie - 27 Jul 2005 18:50 GMT
Hey Harv -- in some people, it is not always about the
knife and fork. Actually with me and all the
medications I take, the less I eat the more I gain. I
take four that interfere with my metabolism and that
does not include prednisone. So to say flatly that my
eating has caused my weight gain is totally unjust to
me. With my low metabolism and RA in a flare --
basically if I hold my own with no gain, I give thanks
to my God. When on a prednisone pulse and wanting to
eat anything that moves - I typically don't gain
because I am moving more to make up for the calories.
Oh for an unmedicated metabolism.
Duckie

>    IMO,,,, it does not add weight like lets say,,, prednisone.  It is our
> knife and fork that causes weight gain and you know who controls that.
> Harv

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Harvey R. Stone - 27 Jul 2005 21:01 GMT
> Hey Harv -- in some people, it is not always about the knife and fork.
> Actually with me and all the medications I take, the less I eat the more I
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> unmedicated metabolism.
> Duckie

It may be unjust and it may drive you crazy but I still believe the same.
If a medicine causes a person to retain fluid like indocine did for me,,,,
that can cause weight gain.   Getting rid of the fluid with another medicine
brings the weight gain and/or swelling down.
Food and lack of exercise puts the fat on our bones for us to carry around.
I know it is hard to accept personal responsibility with weight gain but so
it life.
Harv
Jo Firey - 27 Jul 2005 23:51 GMT
>> Hey Harv -- in some people, it is not always about the knife and fork.
>> Actually with me and all the medications I take, the less I eat the more
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> gain but so it life.
> Harv

Can't agree with you on this one Harv.  I was thirty when I took my first
prednisone pill.  I weighed 105 pounds and had never weighed more than 120
in my life.  Six months later, my asthma was finally under some sort of
control but I weighed 150 pounds.  We are all human around here and there
are limits on what a person can do.  I would have had to cut my food intake
in half to have avoided that weight gain.  At that point homicide or suicide
would have been very real possibilities.

Every time I go through a prednisone pulse, my metabolism soars.  Along with
my appetite.  And I'm not talking the kind of appetite of wanting to indulge
myself.  I'm talking about appetite as strong as the desire to breathe air
or drink water.  I quit a two pack a day cigarette habit.  That was easy
compared to trying to avoid food while on prednisone.

Where I run into the worst problem is after the prednisone pulse.  My
metabolism plummets but my appetite doesn't.

Jo
Harvey R. Stone - 28 Jul 2005 00:58 GMT
> Can't agree with you on this one Harv.  I was thirty when I took my first
> prednisone pill.  I weighed 105 pounds and had never weighed more than 120
> in my life.  Six months later, my asthma was finally under some sort of
> control but I weighed 150 pounds.

I did exclude prednisone from what I was talking about.

 We are all human around here and there
> are limits on what a person can do.  I would have had to cut my food
> intake
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> or drink water.  I quit a two pack a day cigarette habit.  That was easy
> compared to trying to avoid food while on prednisone.

That makes you normal in my world and it is a battle but I do not continue
to do what hurts my while blaiming something or someone else.

> Where I run into the worst problem is after the prednisone pulse.  My
> metabolism plummets but my appetite doesn't.
>
> Jo

My Second RD would only say,,,, eat the same things only eat less in
amounts.   Easy said and hard to do but prednisone does have a place in our
struggle with inflam. arth..... and I have the cheeks to prove it.  Facial
cheeks too.  LOL
Harv
KJ - 26 Jul 2005 03:30 GMT
> Anyone know anything --- have any experience --- re how much tonnage Enbrel
> adds?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Your input and wisdom appreciated.

Enbrel does not seem to cause weight gain. But -there's always a but!-
I did have problems with water retention and higher than my normal high
blood pressure while I was on Enbrel. No one really thought the two
were connected but the water left and the blood pressure returned to
it's normally high readings after I stopped it. I've known one other
person to complain of the same side effects.

~KJ
Becky - 27 Jul 2005 02:44 GMT
Well that makes me think twice, before I take the enbrel.  I have been
taking MTX, which they say can't cause with gain, but I am showing them
wrong. I have gotten 3 emails from others who have also said they gained
weight while on mTX. I am doing nothing different then before, still going
to weight watchers, do the same amount of exercise, practically killing me
to do but do it, and still have gained almost 16 pounds since starting the
MTX over 6 months ago.  I am having a hard enough time dealing with the
pain, I worked way way to hard to get these 60 pounds off do not want to
gain any, I have cut back on my eating and it is every time I increase the
dose the scales creeps up, it may not be the norm but it is what is
happening to me and to add enblre to the mix and gain even more, no thank
you, If i have to be in pain and DO NOT WANT TO BE FAT TOO!!  I have
experienced both and the mtx has controlled most of my pain, and truthfully
I would rather be in pain and not deal with the fat issues, I am sure that
sounds  very vain, but I have suffered many many years with the weight
issues.  I just wish that something would be brought out without stupid side
effects. I had no idea that enbrel would cause water retention, and I know
for  a FACT that MTX does. I sweat so much now at exercise I look like they
just put a hose on me!
Well didn't mean to go off on a soap box, just my 2 cents worth
Becky

>> Anyone know anything --- have any experience --- re how much tonnage
>> Enbrel
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> ~KJ
Nann Bell - 27 Jul 2005 18:14 GMT
Becky, could you maybe try the Enbrel under an agreement with your RD that if
it does begin to give you problems with weight, you can stop it?  The thing
is, it's always possible that Enbrel will not cause the same reaction in you
as mtx - both because the medications work very differently from each other
and because you won't have to deal with the additional issues you have from
folic acid when you're on Enbrel.  And even though I have some pain still
with Enbrel, it has definitely improved my energy levels.  More energy makes
it possible to exercise more which is helping with getting off the weight
I've put on this past year.  Please think about trying Enbrel, with the
understanding that you can always quit it if it complicates your weight
issues.  I never would have believed I could be so happy about giving myself
a weekly shot!

Signature

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> Well that makes me think twice, before I take the enbrel.  I have been
> taking MTX, which they say can't cause with gain, but I am showing them
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Well didn't mean to go off on a soap box, just my 2 cents worth
> Becky
Duckie - 27 Jul 2005 18:50 GMT
You need to talk with a more knowledgeable WW
instructor. You should not be cutting back on what you
are eating but eating more. That is why you are
gaining. At the next meeting, take a [blanking on what
they call that eating chart] with you and see how much
more they want you to add. Don't forget that fat and
fiber are good for you up to a point.
Duckie

> Well that makes me think twice, before I take the enbrel.  I have been
> taking MTX, which they say can't cause with gain, but I am showing them
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>>
>>~KJ

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Becky - 28 Jul 2005 01:31 GMT
No, that is not why I am gaining, I have been going to WW for over 3 years
and had made lifetime 2 years ago and go every week still to meetings, with
my mom, and I did not start gaining until I started he mtx, the more it was
upped the more I gained, if I eat the amount of points that I did I will put
on weight for some reason now, but if I lower them I am able to hold it for
a week or so, so now since I am still on eh MTX 17.5, I have learned that I
can only eat so much or I will still go up, I don't know why it is just want
that drug does to me, that is why I didn't want to start the enbrel if it
can do it to, I may talk to my doctor about a trial of it like suggested.,
would rather go off the mtx and then try the enbrel but not sure if he would
recommend that , I see him again on the 17th of next month . He still keeps
saying it is not the MTX, but after he saw my food journals, and I write
everything even if I cheat that is over my points, he is starting to believe
me, I still go to the gym the same amount of time and take the dogs for
walks, so he is starting to believe that for some reason the MTX is doing
that, I did show him a  couple emails from other people that also had the
same thing happen to them.
Anyway, thank you all or the advice, this group is always a good one,
wishing everyone a good weekend ahead.
Becky
> You need to talk with a more knowledgeable WW instructor. You should not
> be cutting back on what you are eating but eating more. That is why you
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>>>
>>>~KJ
Duckie - 28 Jul 2005 23:31 GMT
hmmm  Thought you said in a different post that you
were exercising more. That usually requires more
calories. Guess the MTX is shutting down your
metabolism with each increase in dosage. Welcome to my
life. Finding that balance between intake and weight
loss or maintenance is tricky. My endocrinologist says
that when he has someone that has trouble losing weight
in good faith, he checks their medication list and
usually finds a medication which is causing the
trouble. In my case, there are four. From one lifetime
member to another
Duckie

> No, that is not why I am gaining, I have been going to WW for over 3 years
> and had made lifetime 2 years ago and go every week still to meetings, with
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
>>>>
>>>>~KJ

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Becky - 29 Jul 2005 03:51 GMT
Duckie,
I wish I was exercising more, that would probably help me, no with my hip
and the IT band, whatever that is, all inflamed I do only 3 days a week, the
elliptical trainer for 35 minutes and some weights, before the hip thing and
the mtx, I was doing it 5 days a week plus walking each night also. That is
a big difference, but figured that if I waited it out my body would adjust
to the different exercise and would adjust but guess I am wrong. Been told I
can not do more than 3 days a week because of the strain on my hip and still
can't find a pair of shoes or orthodics that work right.
Anyway, maybe I should just learn to accept that I will never be thin or
really active again and go on from there, at least I still can enjoy my kids
and I can walk if I have to, need to start looking at the glass half full
not empty as they say.
Thanks and have a great weekend
Becky
> hmmm  Thought you said in a different post that you were exercising more.
> That usually requires more calories. Guess the MTX is shutting down your
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
>>>>>
>>>>>~KJ
Del - 28 Jul 2005 05:20 GMT
> Enbrel does not seem to cause weight gain. But -there's always a but!-
> I did have problems with water retention and higher than my normal high
> blood pressure while I was on Enbrel. No one really thought the two
> were connected but the water left and the blood pressure returned to
> it's normally high readings after I stopped it. I've known one other
> person to complain of the same side effects.

Hmmmm....this is interesting.  I've gained about 15-20 pounds since I
started on Enbrel in Nov. 2001.  It was a slow gain....about 5 pounds
a year.  Also, my blood pressure increased...and I've had to start on
bp medication.  Whether it's the increase in weight or the Enbrel
itself causing the increase in bp, I don't know.  I'm wondering now if
I went off the Enbrel, if the weight and bp would both decrease.

Heck, I'm wondering if I need to talk to Dr. B. next month
anyway...I'm wondering if it's losing it's effectiveness anyway.

IMO, Enbrel lead to weight gain in me.  Nothing else has changed.
Carol
DianeW - 28 Jul 2005 03:31 GMT
I lost weight when I first started it.
Becky - 28 Jul 2005 17:19 GMT
Diane,
you say when you first started it?  How  about now, have you  noticed an
increase
>I lost weight when I first started it.

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