Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / July 2005
Enbrel = Weight Gain???
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mdrawson - 26 Jul 2005 01:05 GMT Anyone know anything --- have any experience --- re how much tonnage Enbrel adds?
I understand it adds some weight, but have no idea whether this is a little, a lot --- a minor issue, a major factor?
Your input and wisdom appreciated.
RoseB - 26 Jul 2005 01:28 GMT >I understand it adds some weight, but have no idea whether this is a little, >a lot --- a minor issue, a major factor? > >Your input and wisdom appreciated. I am not sure that weight gain is associated with enbrel. We have had people that have lost weight. Feeling better allowed them to exercise more and burn more calories.
If a person with RA is thin and underweight as part of their disease, then I think we can assume that feeling better as a result of the enbrel could cause an increase in appetite and a resulting weight gain.
I don't know of any studies that show a weight gain is associated with enbrel use, nor is it listed in the side effect profile. Rose @}>->-- Being educated means that rather than fearing the unknown, one seeks to understand it. RB
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Harvey R. Stone - 26 Jul 2005 01:55 GMT > Anyone know anything --- have any experience --- re how much tonnage > Enbrel adds? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Your input and wisdom appreciated. IMO,,,, it does not add weight like lets say,,, prednisone. It is our knife and fork that causes weight gain and you know who controls that. Harv
Newsgroup Spambuster - 26 Jul 2005 03:21 GMT Actually, not to step on Rose or Harv's toes, but we have had this discussion on a couple of occasions before, and some people do seem to have a noticeable weight gain once starting Enbrel. I believe Melinda was the first one to raise this issue and at one point we took a little survey and there were several who had definite weight gain with Enbrel that resolved once they stopped the enbrel.
So, Mrdawson, there are some people who do experience this side effect (weight gain) with enbrel, and there are some who don't. The amount of weight gain has also been variable with the individuals that have experienced the issue with enbrel, so it is hard to say how much of a weight gain you might have.
You may want to discuss it with your RD or pcp or whoever is overseeing your care if you are concerned about the issue.
Best of luck to you!!!
Donna G
RoseB - 26 Jul 2005 04:27 GMT >Actually, not to step on Rose or Harv's toes, but we have had this >discussion on a couple of occasions before, and some people do seem to >have a noticeable weight gain once starting Enbrel. I stand corrected. I had forgotten about that. Thanks for reminding me Donna.
I am having my own issues and have been wondering if it is due to enbrel. I have been having insomnia- more than my usual. For several nights lately I have not slept at all with my mind racing from one worry to the next. While I can usually function relatively well with a minimal amount of sleep, I am not doing so well this time. I spend the whole day in that place between wakefulness and sleep, with an inability to really fall asleep and get it over with.
I have done very well on enbrel, and would be disappointed if that were the culprit. Perhaps that semi- conscious state causes me to be less than my usual gracious self.
Rose @}>->-- Being educated means that rather than fearing the unknown, one seeks to understand it. RB
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tq - 26 Jul 2005 05:43 GMT FRom the American College of Rheumatology (ACR): Weight Gain Associated with the Administration of Tumor Necrosis Factor
Alpha Antagonists in Patients with Rheumatoid Arthritis Category: 17 RA-treatment J E Fonseca1, H Canhão2, M Cruz1, B Valério1, W Castelão2, T Mesquita1, C Resende2, C Macieira2, J A Pereira da Silva2, J Branco1, M Viana Queiroz2 1Hospital Egas Moniz, Lisbon, Portugal2Hospital de Santa Maria, Lisbon,
Portugal Presentation Number: 367 Poster Board Number: 367 Keywords: Rheumatoid arthritis, Tumor necrosis factor alpha, Weight gain Introduction: Tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF a) is able to block lipoprotein lipase activity in cultured adipocytes and in animal models its administration causes cachexia, through the induction of lipid and protein catabolism, enhanced release of free fatty acids and suppression of appetite. Having considered these known biochemical effects of TNF a it is reasonable to expect that TNF a antagonist therapy might cause a change in the metabolism resulting in an increased weight. Objectives: Clarify if TNF a antagonist therapy is associated with weight gain. Material and Methods: We have prospectively evaluated 46 rheumatoid arthritis patients submitted to this therapy (30 treated with intravenous infliximab 3mg/Kg 0, 2, 6 and then every 8 weeks and 16 with subcutaneous etanercept 25 mg twice weekly). Results: 6 patients were males and 40 were females, with a mean age of 53.1 ± 12.6 years. DAS28 mean initial value for the patients treated with infliximab was 6.1 ± 1.3 and for the patients treated with etanercept was 6.9 ± 1.1. Prednisone mean initial dose was 8.1 ± 3.9 mg/day (infliximab) and 8.0 ± 3.3 mg/day (etanercept). After a mean follow-up of 10.7 ± 4.8 months DAS28 mean final value was 3.5 ± 1.4 for the infliximab group and 3.9 ± 1.1 for the etanercept group (a significative reduction from the baseline DAS28, p<0.01). After this period of therapy the prednisone mean final dose was 6.2 ± 3.8 mg/day for the infliximab group and 6.4 ± 1.8 mg/day for the etanercept group (a significative reduction from the baseline prednisone dose, p<0.05). During this period of time the methotrexate dose remained stable. 8 patients had to stop therapy after 3 months: 5 patients in the infliximab group (sepsis, heart failure, central nervous system tumor, sudden death, lack of efficacy), 3 patients in the etanercept group (septic arthritis, cervix carcinoma, hip fracture). The mean initial weight was 70.1 ± 13.7 Kg and the mean final weight was 73.3 ± 13.9 Kg, corresponding to a mean weight gain of 3.2 ± 3.7 Kg (p<0.001, 95% mean confidence interval 2.0- 4.3). The weight gain was observed in 40 (87%) patients. When a separate analysis of the 2 groups was performed we verified also a significative
weight gain. (respectively, infliximab group from 71.9 ± 12.9 Kg to 74.9 ± 13.7 Kg, p<0.001, mean confidence interval 95% 1.6-4.3; etanercept group from 67.0 ± 14.9 Kg to 70.5 ± 14.2 Kg, p=0.004, mean confidence interval 95% 1.3-5.7). Discussion: Despite the reduction in the prednisone dose this group of patients suffered weight gain. Although the improvement of a systemic disease, such as rheumatoid arthritis, can increase the appetite and weight, we hypothesize that this effect might be enhanced by a catabolic suppression and/or an anabolic effect induced by TNF a antagonist therapy.
JXStern - 30 Jul 2005 17:14 GMT >Discussion: Despite the reduction in the prednisone dose this group of >patients suffered weight gain. Although the improvement of a systemic [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >suppression >and/or an anabolic effect induced by TNF a antagonist therapy. Very interesting article, tq, and it really answers the question!
But now we need an answer why even more people taking Enbrel don't see the weight gain!
J.
Newsgroup Spambuster - 30 Jul 2005 21:15 GMT Rose,
Hmmmm.............that sleeplessness is not a good thing.
Did you notice that it seemed to start around the same time that you started the enbrel? I wonder if you stopped the enbrel for just a week if you would sleep better?
Could the not sleeping possibly be due to something else like worrying about your family or stress from the attack you endured?
Yikes, I hate to think of you loosing sleep especially since the beginning of school is not that far off and you need your rest not only for you, but in order to deal with all those little children.
Praying you can get this all sorted out soon and start getting some real restful sleep!!!
Hugs!
Donna G
Joe Gabriel - 26 Jul 2005 18:23 GMT No weight gain for me. I've been on it for about 7 months now and actually weigh a little less than when I started.
Joe
> Actually, not to step on Rose or Harv's toes, but we have had this > discussion on a couple of occasions before, and some people do seem to [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Donna G
Duckie - 27 Jul 2005 18:50 GMT Hey Harv -- in some people, it is not always about the knife and fork. Actually with me and all the medications I take, the less I eat the more I gain. I take four that interfere with my metabolism and that does not include prednisone. So to say flatly that my eating has caused my weight gain is totally unjust to me. With my low metabolism and RA in a flare -- basically if I hold my own with no gain, I give thanks to my God. When on a prednisone pulse and wanting to eat anything that moves - I typically don't gain because I am moving more to make up for the calories. Oh for an unmedicated metabolism. Duckie
> IMO,,,, it does not add weight like lets say,,, prednisone. It is our > knife and fork that causes weight gain and you know who controls that. > Harv
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Harvey R. Stone - 27 Jul 2005 21:01 GMT > Hey Harv -- in some people, it is not always about the knife and fork. > Actually with me and all the medications I take, the less I eat the more I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > unmedicated metabolism. > Duckie It may be unjust and it may drive you crazy but I still believe the same. If a medicine causes a person to retain fluid like indocine did for me,,,, that can cause weight gain. Getting rid of the fluid with another medicine brings the weight gain and/or swelling down. Food and lack of exercise puts the fat on our bones for us to carry around. I know it is hard to accept personal responsibility with weight gain but so it life. Harv
Jo Firey - 27 Jul 2005 23:51 GMT >> Hey Harv -- in some people, it is not always about the knife and fork. >> Actually with me and all the medications I take, the less I eat the more [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > gain but so it life. > Harv Can't agree with you on this one Harv. I was thirty when I took my first prednisone pill. I weighed 105 pounds and had never weighed more than 120 in my life. Six months later, my asthma was finally under some sort of control but I weighed 150 pounds. We are all human around here and there are limits on what a person can do. I would have had to cut my food intake in half to have avoided that weight gain. At that point homicide or suicide would have been very real possibilities.
Every time I go through a prednisone pulse, my metabolism soars. Along with my appetite. And I'm not talking the kind of appetite of wanting to indulge myself. I'm talking about appetite as strong as the desire to breathe air or drink water. I quit a two pack a day cigarette habit. That was easy compared to trying to avoid food while on prednisone.
Where I run into the worst problem is after the prednisone pulse. My metabolism plummets but my appetite doesn't.
Jo
Harvey R. Stone - 28 Jul 2005 00:58 GMT > Can't agree with you on this one Harv. I was thirty when I took my first > prednisone pill. I weighed 105 pounds and had never weighed more than 120 > in my life. Six months later, my asthma was finally under some sort of > control but I weighed 150 pounds. I did exclude prednisone from what I was talking about.
We are all human around here and there
> are limits on what a person can do. I would have had to cut my food > intake [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > or drink water. I quit a two pack a day cigarette habit. That was easy > compared to trying to avoid food while on prednisone. That makes you normal in my world and it is a battle but I do not continue to do what hurts my while blaiming something or someone else.
> Where I run into the worst problem is after the prednisone pulse. My > metabolism plummets but my appetite doesn't. > > Jo My Second RD would only say,,,, eat the same things only eat less in amounts. Easy said and hard to do but prednisone does have a place in our struggle with inflam. arth..... and I have the cheeks to prove it. Facial cheeks too. LOL Harv
KJ - 26 Jul 2005 03:30 GMT > Anyone know anything --- have any experience --- re how much tonnage Enbrel > adds? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Your input and wisdom appreciated. Enbrel does not seem to cause weight gain. But -there's always a but!- I did have problems with water retention and higher than my normal high blood pressure while I was on Enbrel. No one really thought the two were connected but the water left and the blood pressure returned to it's normally high readings after I stopped it. I've known one other person to complain of the same side effects.
~KJ
Becky - 27 Jul 2005 02:44 GMT Well that makes me think twice, before I take the enbrel. I have been taking MTX, which they say can't cause with gain, but I am showing them wrong. I have gotten 3 emails from others who have also said they gained weight while on mTX. I am doing nothing different then before, still going to weight watchers, do the same amount of exercise, practically killing me to do but do it, and still have gained almost 16 pounds since starting the MTX over 6 months ago. I am having a hard enough time dealing with the pain, I worked way way to hard to get these 60 pounds off do not want to gain any, I have cut back on my eating and it is every time I increase the dose the scales creeps up, it may not be the norm but it is what is happening to me and to add enblre to the mix and gain even more, no thank you, If i have to be in pain and DO NOT WANT TO BE FAT TOO!! I have experienced both and the mtx has controlled most of my pain, and truthfully I would rather be in pain and not deal with the fat issues, I am sure that sounds very vain, but I have suffered many many years with the weight issues. I just wish that something would be brought out without stupid side effects. I had no idea that enbrel would cause water retention, and I know for a FACT that MTX does. I sweat so much now at exercise I look like they just put a hose on me! Well didn't mean to go off on a soap box, just my 2 cents worth Becky
>> Anyone know anything --- have any experience --- re how much tonnage >> Enbrel [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > ~KJ Nann Bell - 27 Jul 2005 18:14 GMT Becky, could you maybe try the Enbrel under an agreement with your RD that if it does begin to give you problems with weight, you can stop it? The thing is, it's always possible that Enbrel will not cause the same reaction in you as mtx - both because the medications work very differently from each other and because you won't have to deal with the additional issues you have from folic acid when you're on Enbrel. And even though I have some pain still with Enbrel, it has definitely improved my energy levels. More energy makes it possible to exercise more which is helping with getting off the weight I've put on this past year. Please think about trying Enbrel, with the understanding that you can always quit it if it complicates your weight issues. I never would have believed I could be so happy about giving myself a weekly shot!
 Signature Nann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare
> Well that makes me think twice, before I take the enbrel. I have been > taking MTX, which they say can't cause with gain, but I am showing them [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Well didn't mean to go off on a soap box, just my 2 cents worth > Becky Duckie - 27 Jul 2005 18:50 GMT You need to talk with a more knowledgeable WW instructor. You should not be cutting back on what you are eating but eating more. That is why you are gaining. At the next meeting, take a [blanking on what they call that eating chart] with you and see how much more they want you to add. Don't forget that fat and fiber are good for you up to a point. Duckie
> Well that makes me think twice, before I take the enbrel. I have been > taking MTX, which they say can't cause with gain, but I am showing them [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >> >>~KJ
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Becky - 28 Jul 2005 01:31 GMT No, that is not why I am gaining, I have been going to WW for over 3 years and had made lifetime 2 years ago and go every week still to meetings, with my mom, and I did not start gaining until I started he mtx, the more it was upped the more I gained, if I eat the amount of points that I did I will put on weight for some reason now, but if I lower them I am able to hold it for a week or so, so now since I am still on eh MTX 17.5, I have learned that I can only eat so much or I will still go up, I don't know why it is just want that drug does to me, that is why I didn't want to start the enbrel if it can do it to, I may talk to my doctor about a trial of it like suggested., would rather go off the mtx and then try the enbrel but not sure if he would recommend that , I see him again on the 17th of next month . He still keeps saying it is not the MTX, but after he saw my food journals, and I write everything even if I cheat that is over my points, he is starting to believe me, I still go to the gym the same amount of time and take the dogs for walks, so he is starting to believe that for some reason the MTX is doing that, I did show him a couple emails from other people that also had the same thing happen to them. Anyway, thank you all or the advice, this group is always a good one, wishing everyone a good weekend ahead. Becky
> You need to talk with a more knowledgeable WW instructor. You should not > be cutting back on what you are eating but eating more. That is why you [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >>> >>>~KJ Duckie - 28 Jul 2005 23:31 GMT hmmm Thought you said in a different post that you were exercising more. That usually requires more calories. Guess the MTX is shutting down your metabolism with each increase in dosage. Welcome to my life. Finding that balance between intake and weight loss or maintenance is tricky. My endocrinologist says that when he has someone that has trouble losing weight in good faith, he checks their medication list and usually finds a medication which is causing the trouble. In my case, there are four. From one lifetime member to another Duckie
> No, that is not why I am gaining, I have been going to WW for over 3 years > and had made lifetime 2 years ago and go every week still to meetings, with [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] >>>> >>>>~KJ
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Becky - 29 Jul 2005 03:51 GMT Duckie, I wish I was exercising more, that would probably help me, no with my hip and the IT band, whatever that is, all inflamed I do only 3 days a week, the elliptical trainer for 35 minutes and some weights, before the hip thing and the mtx, I was doing it 5 days a week plus walking each night also. That is a big difference, but figured that if I waited it out my body would adjust to the different exercise and would adjust but guess I am wrong. Been told I can not do more than 3 days a week because of the strain on my hip and still can't find a pair of shoes or orthodics that work right. Anyway, maybe I should just learn to accept that I will never be thin or really active again and go on from there, at least I still can enjoy my kids and I can walk if I have to, need to start looking at the glass half full not empty as they say. Thanks and have a great weekend Becky
> hmmm Thought you said in a different post that you were exercising more. > That usually requires more calories. Guess the MTX is shutting down your [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] >>>>> >>>>>~KJ Del - 28 Jul 2005 05:20 GMT > Enbrel does not seem to cause weight gain. But -there's always a but!- > I did have problems with water retention and higher than my normal high > blood pressure while I was on Enbrel. No one really thought the two > were connected but the water left and the blood pressure returned to > it's normally high readings after I stopped it. I've known one other > person to complain of the same side effects. Hmmmm....this is interesting. I've gained about 15-20 pounds since I started on Enbrel in Nov. 2001. It was a slow gain....about 5 pounds a year. Also, my blood pressure increased...and I've had to start on bp medication. Whether it's the increase in weight or the Enbrel itself causing the increase in bp, I don't know. I'm wondering now if I went off the Enbrel, if the weight and bp would both decrease.
Heck, I'm wondering if I need to talk to Dr. B. next month anyway...I'm wondering if it's losing it's effectiveness anyway.
IMO, Enbrel lead to weight gain in me. Nothing else has changed. Carol
DianeW - 28 Jul 2005 03:31 GMT I lost weight when I first started it.
Becky - 28 Jul 2005 17:19 GMT Diane, you say when you first started it? How about now, have you noticed an increase
>I lost weight when I first started it.
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