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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / May 2005

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OTP - I am tired

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Mary Z - 05 May 2005 05:06 GMT
I have been working on a minor remodel of my kitchen I pulled out my
old counter tops (the particle board was starting to rise up and
buckle) and installed granite tile counters with a ceramic back
splash.  Wow I had no idea how much work tile actually is.   I was
skeptical about the labor costs but I am a true believer now. I have
been helping with the project, it looks great.  We still have grouting
on the back splash and the oak edging must be installed.  By the stove
I went with a deco ceramic back splash that goes all the way up to the
cabinets.  I can't wait to see how it looks all completed, but  I am a
whipped puppy!  

On top of that we had an accountability audit at work.  It is amazing
how much money we can spend chasing after every nickel.   They want
zero risk for theft for our logging operations.  The cost of zero risk
is almost more than the logs are worth.   When the accountants come up
with these very expensive procedures and ideas I wonder if they look
at the total expense vs product value. This must cost 100s of millions
nationally, it is absolutely insane.  Risk management is not in the FS
vocabulary.  I get so frustrated with these insane rules that were
created for high value old growth timber, we are doing small stuff now
that is only worth about $500 a load.  Grrrrrrrr...... anal bean
counters. -- MZ

Visit my website:
http://www.mzuschlag.com
Jo Firey - 05 May 2005 05:23 GMT
>I have been working on a minor remodel of my kitchen I pulled out my
> old counter tops (the particle board was starting to rise up and
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> that is only worth about $500 a load.  Grrrrrrrr...... anal bean
> counters. -- MZ

Laughing here.  Only thing worse than an accountant is a government
accountant.  And there is no such thing as zero risk and no audit that can
catch everything.

At least in the private sector we have to be able to show value for cost for
our services.

(And yes I do believe I've overall saved my clients more in taxes and
business losses that I've cost them over my career. )

Jo
Mary Z - 06 May 2005 02:51 GMT
>Laughing here.  Only thing worse than an accountant is a government
>accountant.  And there is no such thing as zero risk and no audit that can
>catch everything.

If they start bringing up internal controls again I will scream!!!!!!!
So much of this is just picky and very expensive.  I understand how a
toilet seat costs a hundred dollars in the military.  They probably
need an engineer to design it, then the design has to be checked and
after it is manufactured a  military inspector has to check it and an
independent auditor must check the inspector.   Checkers checking the
checkers that is what it is all about.

We had some big partnerships we wanted to do with some outside groups,
our imaginative grants and agreements folks decided we needed to
require bonding because the grant was over $25,000 they needed to bond
to insure we would receive the money.   We were doing the project in
stages and the granters want to give us money as we started each phase
of the  project.   True story.... now wouldn't you just love to
partner with the Forest Service.  How stupid and expensive. They said
what if we don't get paid well...... duh we have only been working
with these folks for years on big projects with an impeccable record
and they are backed by the state of Oregon.  Monsters under the bed,
what would happen if........  The government thrives on imagining the
worst case scenario. -- MZ

Visit my website:
http://www.mzuschlag.com
Nann Bell - 07 May 2005 16:17 GMT
> (And yes I do believe I've overall saved my clients more in taxes and
> business losses that I've cost them over my career. )

I believe that Jo!  Mike's got an accountant cousin who works with some of
the big hospitals in St Louis.  One accounting firm drove him away and then
got a big surprise when their hospital clients all jumped ship to follow him
to another firm.  Says a lot about what a good acountant can do for the
client.

Signature

Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

Jan O'Keeffe - 05 May 2005 14:23 GMT
>>By the stove I went with a deco ceramic back splash that goes all the way
>>up to the cabinets. <<

Mary-
A word of caution.  I have a ceramic counter-top stove and I broke it
(serves me right for trying to cook).  I dropped a heavy bundt pan on it and
broke off a corner.  I was going to replace it but then figured I'd do it
again so I just keep a vase or candle over the corner and the stove still
works.  Your kitchen sounds great.  Jan O'

>I have been working on a minor remodel of my kitchen I pulled out my
> old counter tops (the particle board was starting to rise up and
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Visit my website:
> http://www.mzuschlag.com 
d'huit - 05 May 2005 15:53 GMT
>I have been working on a minor remodel of my kitchen I pulled out my
> old counter tops (the particle board was starting to rise up and
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> cabinets.  I can't wait to see how it looks all completed, but  I am a
> whipped puppy!

oh!  how fun!!!  yes.  i know how much work it is.  and i know it is body
challenging.  but the sense of accomplishment and creative effort will put a
smile on your face every morning when you see it for the first time each
day.  wish i could see it.

personally, i totally love to tile.  i did all the tiling, by myself, in my
upstairs bathroom--the tub surround, tub end stub wall (for plants, candles
and/or pampering basket), window sill, and of course, the vanity top.
actually, a couple of general contractors wanted to hire me as a tiling
subcontractor after seeing my work in that bathroom.LOL  i laugh, because
there is a no chance i'd take them up on it with this body.  i still have
the intention of tiling the small front door stoop with terra cotta tiles
(to match my house's outdoor brick window sills), after i get around to
replacing the front door.  maybe, after the gimpfest.

are you helping a professional tiler or a friend who knows how to do this?
either way, one piece of gratuitious advice, if you don't mind and if i
may---seal coat the grout at least twice, this first time, before you use
your counters, because of the kind of use your counters will endure.  and
re-seal the grout, at least every 2 to 3 years, after that (every year
really is better, but who has the time or remembers to do that).  that's a
very easy part of the job to do, just brush the clear liquid sealant into
the grout and it will preserve the pristine appearance for you, against
discoloring grease, spills and stains, in the long run.  personally, i'd
rather be faithful with the sealant than have to remove the grout and
re-grout.

as for the gov't and it's idiotic approach to managing resources and money--  
well, butch had a term for the gov't managers of most things like this.
his term was "running dummies", meaning they could and would come up with
more ways of running in one spot or in tight little circles, to cost the
nat'l budget more and to simply give the appearance that they are doing
something worthwhile to justify their paychecks.  (((((((maryz)))))))) it
has to be totally frustrating to deal with the "running dummies" and their
busy work procedures and "ideas".  and jo's right---huge difference between
gov't accountants, the "running dummies", and private sector accountants.

kate

> On top of that we had an accountability audit at work.  It is amazing
> how much money we can spend chasing after every nickel.   They want
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Visit my website:
> http://www.mzuschlag.com 
Mary Z - 06 May 2005 02:59 GMT
>are you helping a professional tiler or a friend who knows how to do this?
>either way, one piece of gratuitious advice, if you don't mind and if i
>may---seal coat the grout at least twice, this first time, before you use
>your counters, because of the kind of use your counters will endure.  and
>re-seal the grout, at least every 2 to 3 years, after that (every year
>really is better, but who has the time or remembers to do that).

I have been working with an experienced tiler, he is very picky.  All
that backer board has to be totally flat  and it paid off  the tiles
are flat no raised edges.  Granite tile only take a 1/16 th grout line
and the grout is dark brown so staining should not be too much of an
issue.  I bought the sealer yesterday and plan to seal coat it before
use.  I bought the good stuff.  Very impressive that you did your own
tiling did you cut the backer board and plywood? -- MZ

Visit my website:
http://www.mzuschlag.com
d'huit - 06 May 2005 05:37 GMT
>>are you helping a professional tiler or a friend who knows how to do this?
>>either way, one piece of gratuitious advice, if you don't mind and if i
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> use.  I bought the good stuff.  Very impressive that you did your own
> tiling did you cut the backer board and plywood? -- MZ

way to go!  you're steps ahead of me.  good sealer is a must, generally
speaking.  a picky tiler (actually, a picky craftsman of any kind) is a good
thing and will make your finished product look good for a long time
afterwards.

nah.  butch did the all the finishing oak woodwork and pre-lim carpentry
with marine grade plywood and cement board (the boys and butch did the
drywalling).  i know i could, though, if somebody with muscle would drag out
the table saw for me.LOL  i just got to do the fun part with a zillion
pounds of 2x2 tortoise shell tiles<smile>  and you're tiler is right -- the
pre-lim/prep stuff means everything in the final result, especially with
larger tiles, like 12x12s.  (it's too hard to cheat (fill in) with bedding
grout for the larger stuff.<smile>) the finishing work means a lot, too,
though.  bet it looks great!

you might want to save a couple of extra tiles, in case you ever break one
and need to "gently" cold chisel it out, to reset a new one (though some
tilers don't like to admit that can be done).  it's hard, if not impossible,
to find matching tiles years later---even if the tile store (or home depot
or whatever) claims it is a stock item.  there's no such thing as permanent
stock items when it comes to tiles; and even if there was such a thing,
color matches could be a problem.  tile types and colors "go out of style",
as far as marketing space goes (when new tiles become popular); and the tile
warehouses stop storing them; and the mfgs stop making them.  i found that
out the hard way, in the downstairs bathroom--and i had a large stained
glass window made to match the pattern on our new tiles when we first
remodeled back in '76--ouch!  grout color you can always mix to match.

kate

> Visit my website:
> http://www.mzuschlag.com 
Nann Bell - 07 May 2005 16:17 GMT
> personally, i totally love to tile.  i did all the tiling, by myself, in my
> upstairs bathroom--the tub surround, tub end stub wall (for plants, candles
> and/or pampering basket), window sill, and of course, the vanity top.
> actually, a couple of general contractors wanted to hire me as a tiling
> subcontractor after seeing my work in that bathroom.LOL  

somehow, I think you and I had better never share living space, Kate.  I have
this feeling the whole place would be tiled!  Then again.......  I'm starting
to see and outdoor sitting area with a lovely Mediterreanian (sp?) style,
tiled low wall.........................

Signature

Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

d'huit - 07 May 2005 20:28 GMT
>> personally, i totally love to tile.  i did all the tiling, by myself, in
>> my
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> to see and outdoor sitting area with a lovely Mediterreanian (sp?) style,
> tiled low wall.........................

uhohhhh, don't give me any more ideas, nann!LOL  makes me want to raise the
one foot tall (on the inside of the patio) brick planter enclosures on my
patio.  hmmm . . . to two feet tall or three?  did i mention i love doing
brickwork, too?<smile>  i can probably still do that kind of thing, if
somebody delivers the brick close enough to where i need them, though i
can't build stone walls anymore.  yep, that too.  i loved building with
stone, too.  did the stone steps, the 40 ft. long stone retaining wall
(after i hand dug out and terraced my backyard into two levels) and all the
rockeries, in my backyard by myself, too.LOL  butch learned to know better
than to offer to help when i was on a roll in the backyard.---gee, how'd my
back get this way, i wonder?  the other day, i found a couple of old photos
from when i finished all the stone work (before i actually paid someone to
redo the stairs and add one more step).  i could scan them for you, if you'd
like to see them.  you can even see one section of the patio brickwork in
one shot.

i've always dreamed of getting rid of my front lawn and puting in an
enclosed courtyard with no grass to mow, tiled, of course.LOL ("when i hit
the lotto" in several states at once.)  but, then . . . that might look a
little odd with my 1 and 3/4 cape cod architecture. ô¿ô

kate

> remove the Gator cheer to email me
> Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare
RhondaM - 05 May 2005 18:35 GMT
I get so frustrated with these insane rules that were
> created for high value old growth timber, we are doing small stuff now
> that is only worth about $500 a load.  Grrrrrrrr...... anal bean
> counters. -- MZ

ROTFLMHO!!!!
My hubby is a bean counter. I know what you mean too. He gets so anal when
it comes to that stufff. He is still in school for his CPA, but he has
become so anal. He has a two year degree and I thought he was getting stuffy
then.lol.. He is so sweet though and hopefully he can give accountants a
better name.:o)

RhondaM

>I have been working on a minor remodel of my kitchen I pulled out my
> old counter tops (the particle board was starting to rise up and
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Visit my website:
> http://www.mzuschlag.com 
Jo Firey - 06 May 2005 01:02 GMT
>I get so frustrated with these insane rules that were
>> created for high value old growth timber, we are doing small stuff now
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> RhondaM

While he is in school its tough.  The teachers are usually very well versed
in the rules, but are often teaching because they can't function in the real
world where value for money is expected.  But he does need what they have to
teach.  Then there will be required on the job training after school.  Also
best accomplished with rather anal types who are very particular.  And some
of those anal qualities will save your a.s because it takes careful training
to learn not to take shortcuts and not to make mistakes and to find and
correct any mistakes you do make.  Those are survival skills.

Then you find yourself out there needing people skills you were never
taught.

I quit auditing.  I was very good at it but it wasn't good for me.  I'm
highly skeptical anyway, and it was making me much worse.  I'm better off in
taxes as I like the clients I've had, enjoy their company, and can believe
what they tell me, at least up to a point.  (Past that point they are no
longer clients)  And business consulting is a blast.

Jo
RhondaM - 06 May 2005 04:49 GMT
LONG!!!!!!
I didn't know you were an accountant. I might be picking your brain often.He
is going to hire someone to do his resume because I am unable to do them
anymore....brain fog. He has a Associates in Business and just completed his
Jr year yesterday. I think he is wanting to start doing internships now to
get experience. Any ideas????? This company that we are retaining for his
resume and job search specializes in accounting. I hope he is making the
right choice.
I can say that one of his best qualities is his honesty and his work ethic.
I wish he could start making the money now..we sure need it! He is currently
a shipping/receiving foreman for this company. He has been there four years
now. He has grown as far as he can get with this co.

When we were in Phoenix a couple of weeks ago we met this lady who was an
accountant. I wish we would have got her name and number she was a hoot! She
just finished tax season, closed up her office, and was on vacation. A very
interesting person.
For some reason you sound like her in how you told your story!
Take care,
RhondaM

>>I get so frustrated with these insane rules that were
>>> created for high value old growth timber, we are doing small stuff now
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> Jo
Squirrely - 07 May 2005 01:44 GMT
Good job. I bet you will be so proud of the finished kitchen.

Just don't overdo it okay. You take care and don't work too hard.

Signature

Love and hugs to all
Good thoughts coming your way too.

Squirrely Jo

...

>I have been working on a minor remodel of my kitchen I pulled out my
> old counter tops (the particle board was starting to rise up and
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> that is only worth about $500 a load.  Grrrrrrrr...... anal bean
> counters. -- MZ
Nann Bell - 07 May 2005 16:17 GMT
> I have been working on a minor remodel of my kitchen I pulled out my
> old counter tops (the particle board was starting to rise up and
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> cabinets.  I can't wait to see how it looks all completed, but  I am a
> whipped puppy!  

I LOVE tile work!  Love to do it, love the results.  Haven't done it in a
while though, no place needing it.  (mom and sister tiled a floor last summer
though, just a few months before the tree fell and destroyed that room!)  
You're gonna love the finished results when you are rested enough to do so.  
Meanwhile, I'm searching the thrift stores in town for the right piece to
play some mosaic games on.............

> created for high value old growth timber, we are doing small stuff now
> that is only worth about $500 a load.  Grrrrrrrr...... anal bean
> counters. -- MZ

it's just nuts the way they DON'T have loopholes when they really should and
DO have them when they shouldn't.  Government for you, I s'pose.

Signature

Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

 
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