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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / April 2005

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Pain - based specialty physical therapy practice

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Chris Goodwin - 21 Apr 2005 07:05 GMT
Hello all,

I am a new poster to the group, having just recently located this group.  To
the point, I am a physical therapist relocating to San Antonio, TX, and am
in the process of opening a specialty practice focusing on pain conditions:
TMD, orofacial pain, cervicogenic headache, myofascial pain syndromes,
fibromyalgia, CRPS/RSD, and chronic female pelvic pain.  The reason for my
post is that I am soliciting input from persons who have utilized physical
therapy services for these conditions in order to refine my treatment
approach and focus.

I have been a physical therapist for 13 years, having worked in massage
therapy for four years before that.  My practice is manual therapy-based
with a strong focus on postural muscle imbalances, medical exercise therapy,
and creative ergonomics.  I have worked extensively with rheumatologists,
physiatrists, anesthesiology/pain management specialists, oral/maxillofacial
surgeons, and neurosurgeons to name a few.  It is my belief that the
community of chronic pain sufferers is severely underserved by the physical
therapy professions, where most outpatient practitooners prefer to focus on
"easier" patients that "actually get better."  This attitude is a great
disservice to those persons that could best benefit from skilled physical
therapy.

OK, now that I am off of the soapbox, please tell me what experiences you
have had in physical therapy, what you have liked/disliked, what has and has
not worked, and what your idea of the ideal physical therapy experience
would be.  I appreciate your help in advance, and look forward to discussing
this issue with you, and perhaps meeting some of you in the future.

Sincerely,
Chrs Goodwin PT, OCS, FAAOMPT
Harvey R. Stone - 21 Apr 2005 14:02 GMT
Thank you for your interest in this newsgroup.  Being it is the internet,,,
you may be used,, abused or otherwise questioned to death.   As you already
know, people with chronic pain can be very blunt about life or the living of
it.    Just do the best  you can with it all and welcome to ASA.
    I have been very lucky to not have need of your profession but I do see
the need for it.

Harv

> Hello all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> Sincerely,
> Chrs Goodwin PT, OCS, FAAOMPT
Duckie - 22 Apr 2005 21:52 GMT
I am working with a PT now. I have a muscle spasm in my
hip and down the leg on my "good" side. Replaced knee
is on the other. She used ultrasound the first session
followed by message and then manual stretching.  Today
she added something else which involved these pads and
something she said was a sulfur drug. Sorry, normally I
am totally with it and know what is going on. She was
the same therapist I had for my TKR and I totally trust
her so just didn't ask. Whatever this was, she said to
me -- You are so in tune with your body, that this is
probably going to hurt you. We will start slowly.
Well she was right, it had to be slower than she
expected but I was able to stand a few more 'turns'.
Felt like electricity but it was on the side of my a.s 
which is considerable so couldn't really see what was
going on. In the trash can after, there were two pads
that look a bit like the buttons used for heart monitor.
What works best for me besides PT and muscle
strengthening is acupuncture. I see a Japanese
acupuncturist about every two weeks. Keeps my FM in check.
Duckie

> Hello all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Sincerely,
> Chrs Goodwin PT, OCS, FAAOMPT

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Chris Goodwin - 23 Apr 2005 03:51 GMT
What you are describing is called iontophoresis, which is the elevtrical
application of a ionic solution of a medicaiton.  The stimulator is a low
amperage direct current generator.  The therapist determines the ionic
charge of the medication in question, and then applies the same polarity
electrode to the medication, causing like charges to repel, driving the
medication into the subcutaneous tissue.  Typically either a local
anesthetic like xylocaine is used for pain relief or a corticosteroid like
dexamethasone can be used to decrease inflammation.  I have not heard of a
sulfur drug being used for anything, but new things crop up all the time!  I
am glad that your therapy is helpful.
Thanks for your comments!
Chris

>I am working with a PT now. I have a muscle spasm in my hip and down the
>leg on my "good" side. Replaced knee is on the other. She used ultrasound
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
>> Sincerely,
>> Chrs Goodwin PT, OCS, FAAOMPT
Nann Bell - 23 Apr 2005 19:00 GMT
> OK, now that I am off of the soapbox, please tell me what experiences you
> have had in physical therapy, what you have liked/disliked, what has and has
> not worked, and what your idea of the ideal physical therapy experience
> would be.  I appreciate your help in advance, and look forward to discussing
> this issue with you, and perhaps meeting some of you in the future.

for background, I have RA/PsA, fibromyalgia, hypermobility syndrome and a
some joint problems resulting from past injuries.  I think you are off to a
good start just because you obviously "believe" in chronic pain conditions
and you evidently accept the value of teaching people to at least somewhat
control their condition vs. curing them.

The number one thing I've liked is therapists who truly listen and who pay
enough attention to the patient to get a feel for what kind of person s/he
is, particularly when it comes to judging the patients' complaints of pain or
discomfort.  Going along with that, last summer I had PT at a place where I
was evaluated by a therapist, then treated by a round of aides.  IIRC, I was
treated by 3 different aides so I saw a total of 4 different people there in
the course of 1 month.  At the beginning of this year, I had 6 weeks of
therapy at a place that makes a point of having no more than 2 people
treating you and is staffed only by therapists, no aides.  I was vastly more
pleased with the treatment I got there.  

Oh and this more recent place had a really relaxed, friendly attitude about
the whole place.  There was always a lot of laughter in the main therapy
room.  Patients would talk to each other, staff talked to each other, staff
and patients talked to each other.  It was a nice, we're all in this together
atmosphere.  It made it all much more pleasant and kept one from feeling as
much like a "patient".  I actually looked forward to my appointments and they
often cheered me up if I was feeling a bit down that day. I commented on it
once and they told me that the attitude was intentional, the owner makes a
point of hiring people who share her philosophy.

Let's see... last summer's eval insisted on seeing just how far my neck would
go in any given direction.  Kicked off my fibro pain big time.  My doc had to
put me on Vicodin just so I could sleep. (yes, the therapist knew about the
fibro)  This past winter's therapist paid more attention to my warning about
my fibro and kept the eval as gentle as she could and didn't flare the fibro
very much.  (both these rounds of therapy were for bulging discs in my neck.)

Also, when something somewhat outside of the treatment plan came up, the
therapists who were working with me this past winter were able to help me
out, something that was missing with the aides last summer.  That was great
as the treatment tended to kick off muscle cramps/aches/spasms in bordering
areas.

I know this is rather rambling, but my brain is suffering from the cold that
won't quit.  I hope it makes a bit of sense though!

Signature

Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

Chris Goodwin - 25 Apr 2005 03:25 GMT
Sounds like you have seen the high and the low of my profession.  Many
corporate practices and physican-owned clinics utilize many "care extenders"
to provide their "therapy" that consists of physical agents (hot packs, cold
packs, ultrasound, electrical stimulation) and scripted exercise programs.
I despise these practices, as they typically overutilize their care, and
really do not do the majority of patients any good at all.

A well-trained exercise physiologist is invaluable in my practice, but I
intend to start with just me and a receptionist, adding therapists as the
business demands.
Thanks for your input!
Chris

>> OK, now that I am off of the soapbox, please tell me what experiences you
>> have had in physical therapy, what you have liked/disliked, what has and
[quoted text clipped - 67 lines]
> that
> won't quit.  I hope it makes a bit of sense though!
Duckie - 25 Apr 2005 04:06 GMT
I had a real jerk for my first knee surgery 3+ years
ago. He kept canceling on me so I saw him a total of
once a week. and during that he often shunted me off to
a lower trainee. right like once a week was going to
help. Then at the end of 4 weeks of getting no where, I
told him we needed to reschedule all those appointments
where he canceled. Your time is up he says. Discovered
then that insurance covers a period of time -- 4 weeks
whether you see a PT once in that time, once a week, or
three times a week. So, I say you need to give me
exercises I can do at my gym. Your gym doesn't have
this equipment he says. In my head I am now thinking,
then I need to be here. grrr  But I say, why don't you
give them to me and let me check for myself. To which
he says, I don't know why you are bothering -- you
aren't going to get better anyway.
Drove home in tears and picked up the phone and called
his supervisor and turned him in. and then I told every
doctor that would listen just how I felt about that
jerk and turned him in to patient advocacy at the
clinic. hehehe Angry ducks can get ugly.
After my knee replacement, when PT called to schedule I
told the guy there just what an awful time I had had a
few years earlier. He said that he was going to give me
basically what turned out to be a supervisor who
listened to me and was magical.
I am seeing her again for that tightness in my hip.
You sound like you are one of the good guys.
Duckie

> Sounds like you have seen the high and the low of my profession.  Many
> corporate practices and physican-owned clinics utilize many "care extenders"
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Thanks for your input!
> Chris
Aim - 26 Apr 2005 14:14 GMT
Hi Chris,

My mom is a PT/MOMT, and I've seen one of the top MOMTs in the country for
my AS. (luckily he just happens to be in the Seattle area when he's not
teaching all over the country!) I've certainly got input if you want any,
as I've also seen some bad PTs and not-so-well-run clinics. My mom worked
for Children's Hospital in San Diego for 15 years, started their GAIT lab
there, as well as a few other programs, and then moved here to Seattle 0
years ago. She started working for a clinic that was eventually bought out
by HealtSouth - one of the WORST chain operations in history of medicine -
and she an the other senior therapists put in their notice. They were
escorted out of the clinic by security, like they were going to steal
something, without being allowed to finish out their last two weeks. They
opened a clinic across the street, which has now become a chain of 7
clinics in the area. They won't get any bigger because they don't want to
lose quality.

Anyway, yeah - Mark Looper is my PT. You've probably heard of him, and if
you're an MOMT (or working on it) you probably have taken classes from him
as well. He's AMAZING. He knows his stuff, treats me himself and only has
an aide hook up the e-stim (which helps a LOT to settle down my extreme
muscle spasm after we're done) The aide is a PT student and an athletic
trainer, so at least has some education, and he often brings them in to
show them things with me, since he knows I'm ok with that.

One thing that really sets Mark apart, but seems so small, is that he
always has a new joke or story when I come in. He remembers what I was up
to the last time, and asks how whatever-it-was turned out, and he tells me
what he's been doing. I feel like we have as much of a friendship as one
can have with a treatment provider without crossing the line. It's a nice
feeling.

Just a thought - I did work at Children's Hospital here in Seattle for a
short time, in the Rheumatology clinic, answering the phones, when I was
between jobs. There used to be a doctor there, Dr Sherry, who was the
specialist in juvenile RND/RSD. Just as an FYI, I would highly recommend
hiring a receptionist or Admin who is able to be firm yet understanding,
and who has enough medical understanding to be able to differentiate a
true urgent situation. The RND/RSD patients *generally* though not always
can be a bit high maintenance, and will call a lot with "urgent" needs. It
was probably more of an issue at CH, as we were talking to their parents,
who tend to have a typical personality type of high-maintenance and/or
overbearing. oi. I'll probably get yelled at for this... ;-)  But it IS a
generalization, and it is from my own experience.

Anyway, having seen my mother start her own chain of clinics (starting
from one) I'm happy to talk to you about thoughts I have if you want.

Amy

>Hello all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>Sincerely,
>Chrs Goodwin PT, OCS, FAAOMPT

Aim

respond to me at: aimnews at comcastdotnet
Nann Bell - 26 Apr 2005 16:35 GMT
> was probably more of an issue at CH, as we were talking to their parents,
> who tend to have a typical personality type of high-maintenance and/or
> overbearing. oi. I'll probably get yelled at for this... ;-)  But it IS a
> generalization, and it is from my own experience.

well, of course, you were hearing from the parents who fit that
generalization, the others wouldn't be a problem.  LOL  (had to remind
ourselves of that at my hospital jobs with some chronic patients.)

But, Aim, tell us more about how you are doing and what's up in your life.  
Inquiring minds want to know!

Signature

Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

Duckie - 27 Apr 2005 00:46 GMT
Good to see you post. Are you going to make it to
Portland in June?
Duckie

> Hi Chris,
>
> My mom is a PT/MOMT, and I've seen one of the top MOMTs in the country for
> my AS. .....
 
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