Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / April 2005
thoracic epidural 2 update
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d'huit - 13 Apr 2005 12:40 GMT well, procedurally, this appmt. went more like the lumbar punctures, in that the pattern leading up to the procedure itself ,was more familiar and the duration of the procedure was shorter than the first thoracic procedure. i was in and prepped by 3:30 and home by 5pm. (i live 3 miles from the clinic), instead of in by 3:30 and home by 6:30pm because of the last procedure.
mentally, emotionally and with a pre-procedure valium cocktail, i was prepared for what was coming during it. i certainly didn't tighten/tense up or hold myself back from surrendering to the experience. but, somehow it felt a bit more difficult than the first time, a bit more instense in the procedure's pain element for me, even though this procedure was shorter. i'm not sure why, though, maybe the larger dose of the longer acting steroid had something to do with it.
before we began, dr. alex was very pleased to know that after the steroid of the first injection procedure kicked in, after two days, that i did have relief from back spams and the pain caused by sneezing and coughing (and the spasms caused by coughing and sneezing pain) for the span of time between when the steroid kicked in until two days before this second procedure; which resulted in milder spasms, and even though my pain levels had returned from coughing and sneezing to the same degree two days prior to this second injection. told me that the shortterm relief i had experienced let him know he was on the right track and in the correct area.
during this second procedure, he went down to the same level, in the same spot, but this time he used a larger dose of a longer lasting steroid, he told me.
immediately after the procedure, while i was still on the table, he said, "i believe you should have some questions to ask me by now." however, because of my pain level, i simply couldn't think, couldn't focus on anything except dealing with my level of discomfort, trying to go inward to face my discomfort and mentally lessen it. so i asked him to pretend i asked the questions, to go ahead and answer what he thought i should be asking. he said, "no. maybe you really don't have questions for me at this point." truthfully, i couldn't find the mental energy to ask questions and you know me and questions---i'm a question generating machine normally.
my neck had stiffened up on the table, again, with this procedure as with the last one. took me a couple of minutes to be able to lift my head (neck spasms) and then, sit up. i took a few minutes to regain my sense of being perpendicular. i stood up with the tech's assistance, was very wobbly. she helped me out to my son in the waiting room, while telling me to take my pain pills right away and to minimize my movements and any exertions when i got home. i felt very disoriented. alex guided me to the car and into the house. sweet kid.
got home and immediately grabbed something cold to drink and a piece of cheese (had been on a nothing by mouth fast pre-procedural protocol since the night before) sat down with my legs up. ate the cheese, pain pills, drained the liquid in nothing flat. sat there and decided to surrender to whatever my body wanted. nodded off and awakened intermittantly yelping when my head move towards my chest. (it still hurts my mid-spine dramatically, whenever my chin moves downward to my chest for any reason. i'm still waiting for the steroids to kick in.) alex had had enough of my yelping and insisted i eat something more substantial that he put in front of me. i forced myself to eat, though i had no desire to, but i was touched by his thoughtfulness; wanted to please him because he was so sweet in taking care of his mother. i just couldn't tolerate sitting anymore and decided to go directly to bed. tried to read. couldn't. tried to watch tv. couldn't. just shut the light and waited for sleep.
i awoke up at 3:30 a.m. and came in here. been trying to write this with constant and persistant interruptions from an automatic update wanting me to restart my computer in the middle of this.
i'm sooo looking forward to the steroid to kicking in. this particular part of the process is unlike with the lumbar punctures, with their short term and long term anesthetic which went a long way in helping me wait out the process of the steroid kicking in. it's been difficult to type, because my head keeps lowering to see the keyboard and that upgrades my pain level mid-spine. so, i'm going back to bed in a moment. seeeee? . . . i told you guys i really am a wuss.
thank you for hanging in there with me and all your love and support. i'm very grateful for it. catch ya all, when i can do this a little more easily.
i love all of you, kate
Harvey R. Stone - 13 Apr 2005 13:38 GMT > my head keeps lowering to see the keyboard and that upgrades my pain level > mid-spine. so, i'm going back to bed in a moment. seeeee? . . . i told [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > i love all of you, > kate Bless your heart or neck or whatever..... Many people here know exactly what you are talking about. That is having something hurting so bad that bed is a good place to hide from it for awhile and sometimes we do recuperate and I hope you did. Harv
d'huit - 13 Apr 2005 23:01 GMT >> my head keeps lowering to see the keyboard and that upgrades my pain >> level mid-spine. so, i'm going back to bed in a moment. seeeee? . . . i [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > recuperate and I hope you did. > Harv thanks, harv. i'm better now.
kate
Adelle - 13 Apr 2005 13:58 GMT Kate,
Not sure how much this will help, but:
I remember someone on the MS newsgroup saying he always brought a couple of cans of Mountain Dew with him when he had a LP. Said the sugar and the caffeine really helped in making him feel better. He had a long explanation why the sugar water was important for restabilizing while the caffeine helped with the headaches that happen with an LP. I know you don't get headaches, but maybe a really sugary drink would help with the shocky disoriented feeling.
Adelle
> well, procedurally, this appmt. went more like the lumbar punctures, in > that the pattern leading up to the procedure itself ,was more familiar and [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > i love all of you, > kate d'huit - 13 Apr 2005 22:48 GMT > Kate, > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Adelle interesting, adelle. unfortunately, i have to be very careful with caffeine---too much (usually two cups of coffee will do it) and i tend to reverently sing "wyatt earp" or "tom dooley" to the commode.
when i say "valium cocktail", which is what i call it, i mean what the clinic calls a 12-24 hour dose of liquid valium mixed into a full cup of tang and water. (tastes like the worst bartender's mixed-drink you can imagine.LOL) so, i'm sure there is a lot of sugar in my system from that tang, which they mix pretty thickly to "hide" the bitter and yucky taste of the valium. but that mountain dew idea sounds like a good one and would probably be very helpful for others who decide to do lumbar or cervical epidurals without that kind of muscle relaxant.
one does have a choice to decline muscle relaxant sedation, and surprizingly, some do. actually, i did my second to last lumbar epidural without the "cocktail" (i'd heard many do decline it and wondered if i could handle it. i tend to challenge myself, unnecessarily, at times, just to see how wimpy i am or am not. found out i could handle it. i did ok, but . . .). i decided i wasn't going to do my last epidural without it ---and actually, even though he thought i did ok too, dr. alex decided the same thing i did. he didn't want to have to put me through that without it, when it's unnecessary (we are definitely on the same page sometimes<smile>). he insisted he doesn't do thoracic epidurals without some kind of muscle relaxant, makes it too hard for him, as well as the patient.
actually, adelle, i think my disorientation had more to do with immediate pain and movement because of that pain; and the pain issue comes from/at the level where anesthetic is no longer safe to use, at the procedures deepest levels, nearest to my spinal cord. the procedure kind of irritates that area. well, i guess the logic would go, try to move without using your spinal cord's help.LOL
kate
>> well, procedurally, this appmt. went more like the lumbar punctures, in >> that the pattern leading up to the procedure itself ,was more familiar [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] >> i love all of you, >> kate Nann Bell - 13 Apr 2005 15:13 GMT May the results of this procedure make the pain of going through it MORE than worthwhile!
BTW, more and more they are learning that nothing after midnight isn't necessary unless your having bowel surgery or such. Apparently the stomach clears enough that aspiration is no longer a concern within 2-3 hours. Most docs stick with the old order though, partly out of habit and partly (I suspect) out of fear that patients will eat right up until they come in the door if the instructions are changed. So if you have another afternoon appointment, you might specifically ask if you can eat something at, say, 8 am and nothing after. He knows by now that you are plenty smart enough to do that! Might help with that big hypoglycemic reaction there.
Meanwhile, you can insist that you are a wuss all you want. As long as you continue to willingly let them stick needles in you back in search of feeling a bit better, we will know you are courageous.
 Signature Nann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare
d'huit - 13 Apr 2005 23:10 GMT > May the results of this procedure make the pain of going through it MORE > than [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > feeling > a bit better, we will know you are courageous. thanks, nann. sweet blessing/wish. they want me empty so that the oral valium cocktail (liquid valium in water with sugary tang; a thick yucky drink) works quickly and isn't diluted and is absorbed better and faster. i was told that's their reasoning behind it. i think it was the shock of the pain that made me wobbly. the procedure felt a bit rougher/more difficult than the last time, and certainly left me feeling totally "surprized" by how much i hurt, when i sat up and then tried to walk. tough to find my balance with it.
ok. if you insist. just call me wonder woman.LOL or maybe, " i WONDER woman!"LOL
kate
DeeTee and Bob Taggart - 13 Apr 2005 16:20 GMT {{{{{Kate}}}}} We love you and you are in our prayers.
DeeTee ________________________________ DeeTee and Bob Taggart http://www.marykay.com/dtaggart3 http://mysite.verizon.net/vze8fwov/ ________________________________
> well, procedurally, this appmt. went more like the lumbar punctures, in > that the pattern leading up to the procedure itself ,was more familiar and [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > i love all of you, > kate d'huit - 13 Apr 2005 23:10 GMT > {{{{{Kate}}}}} We love you and you are in our prayers. > > DeeTee thank you, hon. i love you too and you are always in mine.
kate
> ________________________________ > DeeTee and Bob Taggart [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] >> i love all of you, >> kate Diane - 13 Apr 2005 18:00 GMT kate, i feel for you! i hope the steroid kicks in. i can tell home much discomfort you're having and the procedure sounded very difficult. i'm so glad you have alex there taking care of you. (personal note: i guess he's forgiven you for cutting his fingers with your hair when he was a baby. lol. ) you are definitely not a wuss! are you writing down your questions for the doc now that you're thinking a little more clearly?
diane
d'huit - 13 Apr 2005 23:00 GMT > kate, i feel for you! i hope the steroid kicks in. i can tell home much > discomfort you're having and the procedure sounded very difficult. i'm [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > diane stinker!LOL<cracking up>
i hadn't thought of that! good idea! thanx. one list for the dr. coming up.
i'm doing much better now. last time it took 24 hours to put me in a more functioning mode. not nearly as bad, now, when i lower my chin to lower my gaze. last night, i thought i was going to black out the first time i did that. nobody warned me about that. i wonder if they even know that happens sometimes. that didn't happen to me with the last thoracic injection. weird. but he did tell me to be as inert as possible last night, so he must have figured "something" was going to hurt bigtime.
kate
Duckie - 13 Apr 2005 20:37 GMT {{{{{{{Kate}}}}}}} Duckie
> well, procedurally, this appmt. went more like the lumbar punctures, in that > the pattern leading up to the procedure itself ,was more familiar and the [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > i love all of you, > kate
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d'huit - 13 Apr 2005 23:11 GMT > {{{{{{{Kate}}}}}}} > Duckie thank you for the hugs, sweetie.
kate
>> well, procedurally, this appmt. went more like the lumbar punctures, in >> that the pattern leading up to the procedure itself ,was more familiar [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] >> i love all of you, >> kate RhondaM - 14 Apr 2005 04:26 GMT I am glad it is over for you and I hope you are feeling better. RhondaM
> well, procedurally, this appmt. went more like the lumbar punctures, in > that the pattern leading up to the procedure itself ,was more familiar and [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > i love all of you, > kate Marmartoo - 14 Apr 2005 19:10 GMT Kate, my daughter had the same reaction you did. The first procedure didn't bother her too much, but when they moved up and went deeper, she said it was quite painful and she couldn't move at all during it. It did really help her for a while, though. Gwen
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