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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / April 2005

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thoracic epidural 2 update

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d'huit - 13 Apr 2005 12:40 GMT
well, procedurally, this appmt. went more like the lumbar punctures, in that
the pattern leading up to the procedure itself ,was more familiar and the
duration of the procedure was shorter than the first thoracic procedure.  i
was in and prepped by 3:30 and home by 5pm. (i live 3 miles from the
clinic), instead of in by 3:30 and home by 6:30pm because of the last
procedure.

mentally, emotionally  and with a pre-procedure valium cocktail, i was
prepared for what was coming during it.  i certainly didn't tighten/tense up
or hold myself back from surrendering to the experience.  but, somehow it
felt a bit more difficult than the first time, a bit more instense in the
procedure's pain element for me, even though this procedure was shorter.
i'm not sure why, though, maybe the larger dose of the longer acting steroid
had something to do with it.

before we began, dr. alex was very pleased to know that after the steroid of
the first injection procedure kicked in, after two days, that i did have
relief from back spams and the pain caused by sneezing and coughing (and the
spasms caused by coughing and sneezing pain) for the span of time between
when the steroid kicked in until two days before this second procedure;
which resulted in milder spasms, and even though my pain levels had returned
from coughing and sneezing to the same degree two days prior to this second
injection.  told me that the shortterm relief i had experienced let him know
he was on the right track and in the correct area.

during this second procedure, he went down to the same level, in the same
spot, but this time he used a larger dose of a longer lasting steroid, he
told me.

immediately after the procedure, while i was still on the table, he said, "i
believe you should have some questions to ask me by now."  however, because
of my pain level, i simply couldn't think, couldn't focus on anything except
dealing with my level of discomfort, trying to go inward to face my
discomfort and mentally lessen it.  so i asked him to pretend i asked the
questions, to go ahead  and answer what he thought i should be asking.  he
said, "no.  maybe you really don't have questions for me at this point."
truthfully, i couldn't find the mental energy to ask questions and you know
me and questions---i'm a question generating machine normally.

my neck had stiffened up on the table, again, with this procedure as with
the last one.  took me a couple of minutes to be able to lift my head (neck
spasms) and then, sit up.  i took a few minutes to regain my sense of being
perpendicular.  i stood up with the tech's assistance, was very wobbly.  she
helped me out to my son in the waiting room, while telling me to take my
pain pills right away and to minimize my movements and any exertions when i
got home.  i felt very disoriented.  alex guided me to the car and into the
house.  sweet kid.

got home and immediately grabbed something cold to drink and a piece of
cheese (had been on a nothing by mouth fast pre-procedural protocol since
the night before) sat down with my legs up.  ate the cheese, pain pills,
drained the liquid in nothing flat.  sat there and decided to surrender to
whatever my body wanted.  nodded off and awakened intermittantly yelping
when my head move towards my chest.  (it still hurts my mid-spine
dramatically, whenever my chin moves downward to my chest for any reason.
i'm still waiting for the steroids to kick in.)  alex had had enough of my
yelping and insisted i eat something more substantial that he put in front
of me.  i forced myself to eat, though i had no desire to, but i was touched
by his thoughtfulness;  wanted to please him because he was so sweet in
taking care of his mother.  i just couldn't tolerate sitting anymore and
decided to go directly to bed.  tried to read.  couldn't.  tried to watch
tv.  couldn't.  just shut the light and waited for sleep.

i awoke up at 3:30 a.m. and came in here.  been trying to write this with
constant and persistant interruptions from an automatic update wanting me to
restart my computer in the middle of this.

i'm sooo looking forward to the steroid to kicking in.  this particular
part of the process is unlike with the lumbar punctures, with their short
term and long term anesthetic which went a long way in helping me wait out
the process of the steroid kicking in.  it's been difficult to type, because
my head keeps lowering to see the keyboard and that upgrades my pain level
mid-spine.  so, i'm going back to bed in a moment.  seeeee? . . . i told you
guys i really am a wuss.

thank you for hanging in there with me and all your love and support.  i'm
very grateful for it.  catch ya all, when i can do this a little more
easily.

i love all of you,
kate
Harvey R. Stone - 13 Apr 2005 13:38 GMT
> my head keeps lowering to see the keyboard and that upgrades my pain level
> mid-spine.  so, i'm going back to bed in a moment.  seeeee? . . . i told
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> i love all of you,
> kate

Bless your heart or neck or whatever.....  Many people here know exactly
what you are talking about.  That is having something hurting so bad that
bed is a good place to hide from it for awhile  and sometimes we do
recuperate and I hope you did.
Harv
d'huit - 13 Apr 2005 23:01 GMT
>> my head keeps lowering to see the keyboard and that upgrades my pain
>> level mid-spine.  so, i'm going back to bed in a moment.  seeeee? . . . i
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> recuperate and I hope you did.
> Harv

thanks, harv.  i'm better now.

kate
Adelle - 13 Apr 2005 13:58 GMT
Kate,

Not sure how much this will help, but:

I remember someone on the MS newsgroup saying he always brought a couple of
cans of Mountain Dew with him when he had a LP. Said the sugar and the
caffeine really helped in making him feel better. He had a long explanation
why the sugar water was important for restabilizing while the caffeine
helped with the headaches that happen with an LP. I know you don't get
headaches, but maybe a really sugary drink would help with the shocky
disoriented feeling.

Adelle
> well, procedurally, this appmt. went more like the lumbar punctures, in
> that the pattern leading up to the procedure itself ,was more familiar and
[quoted text clipped - 79 lines]
> i love all of you,
> kate
d'huit - 13 Apr 2005 22:48 GMT
> Kate,
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Adelle

interesting, adelle.  unfortunately, i have to be very careful with
caffeine---too much (usually two cups of coffee will do it) and i tend to
reverently sing "wyatt earp" or "tom dooley" to the commode.

when i say "valium cocktail", which is what i call it, i mean what the
clinic calls a 12-24 hour dose of liquid valium mixed into a full cup of
tang and water.  (tastes like the worst bartender's mixed-drink you can
imagine.LOL)  so, i'm sure there is a lot of sugar in my system from that
tang, which they mix pretty thickly to "hide" the bitter and yucky taste of
the valium.  but that mountain dew idea sounds like a good one and would
probably be very helpful for others who decide to do lumbar or cervical
epidurals without that kind of muscle relaxant.

one does have a choice to decline muscle relaxant sedation, and
surprizingly, some do.  actually, i did my second to last lumbar epidural
without the "cocktail" (i'd heard many do decline it and wondered if i could
handle it.  i tend to challenge myself, unnecessarily, at times, just to see
how wimpy i am or am not.  found out i could handle it.  i did ok, but . .
.).  i decided i wasn't going to do my last epidural without it ---and
actually, even though he thought i did ok too, dr. alex decided the same
thing i did.  he didn't want to have to put me through that without it, when
it's unnecessary (we are definitely on the same page sometimes<smile>).  he
insisted he doesn't do thoracic epidurals without some kind of muscle
relaxant, makes it too hard for him, as well as the patient.

actually, adelle, i think my disorientation had more to do with immediate
pain and movement because of that pain; and the pain issue comes from/at the
level where anesthetic is no longer safe to use, at the procedures deepest
levels, nearest to my spinal cord.  the procedure kind of irritates that
area.   well, i guess the logic would go, try to move without using your
spinal cord's help.LOL

kate

>> well, procedurally, this appmt. went more like the lumbar punctures, in
>> that the pattern leading up to the procedure itself ,was more familiar
[quoted text clipped - 90 lines]
>> i love all of you,
>> kate
Nann Bell - 13 Apr 2005 15:13 GMT
May the results of this procedure make the pain of going through it MORE than
worthwhile!

BTW, more and more they are learning that nothing after midnight isn't
necessary unless your having bowel surgery or such.  Apparently the stomach
clears enough that aspiration is no longer a concern within 2-3 hours.  Most
docs stick with the old order though, partly out of habit and partly (I
suspect) out of fear that patients will eat right up until they come in the
door if the instructions are changed.  So if you have another afternoon
appointment, you might specifically ask if you can eat something at, say, 8
am and nothing after.  He knows by now that you are plenty smart enough to do
that!  Might help with that big hypoglycemic reaction there.

Meanwhile, you can insist that you are a wuss all you want.  As long as you
continue to willingly let them stick needles in you back in search of feeling
a bit better, we will know you are courageous.  

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Nann
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Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

d'huit - 13 Apr 2005 23:10 GMT
> May the results of this procedure make the pain of going through it MORE
> than
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> feeling
> a bit better, we will know you are courageous.

thanks, nann.  sweet blessing/wish.  they want me empty so that the oral
valium cocktail (liquid valium in water with sugary tang; a thick yucky
drink)  works quickly and isn't diluted and is absorbed better and faster.
i was told that's their reasoning behind it.  i think it was the shock of
the pain that made me wobbly.  the procedure felt a bit rougher/more
difficult than the last time, and certainly left me feeling totally
"surprized" by how much i hurt, when i sat up and then tried to walk.  tough
to find my balance with it.

ok.  if you insist.  just call me wonder woman.LOL  or maybe, " i WONDER
woman!"LOL

kate
DeeTee and Bob Taggart - 13 Apr 2005 16:20 GMT
{{{{{Kate}}}}}  We love you and you are in our prayers.

DeeTee
________________________________
DeeTee and Bob Taggart
http://www.marykay.com/dtaggart3
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze8fwov/
________________________________
> well, procedurally, this appmt. went more like the lumbar punctures, in
> that the pattern leading up to the procedure itself ,was more familiar and
[quoted text clipped - 79 lines]
> i love all of you,
> kate
d'huit - 13 Apr 2005 23:10 GMT
> {{{{{Kate}}}}}  We love you and you are in our prayers.
>
> DeeTee

thank you, hon.  i love you too and you are always in mine.

kate
> ________________________________
> DeeTee and Bob Taggart
[quoted text clipped - 84 lines]
>> i love all of you,
>> kate
Diane - 13 Apr 2005 18:00 GMT
kate, i feel for you! i hope the steroid kicks in. i can tell home much
discomfort you're having and the procedure sounded very difficult. i'm
so glad you have alex there taking care of you. (personal note: i guess
he's forgiven you for cutting his fingers with your hair when he was a
baby. lol. ) you are definitely not a wuss! are you writing down your
questions for the doc now that you're thinking a little more clearly?

diane
d'huit - 13 Apr 2005 23:00 GMT
> kate, i feel for you! i hope the steroid kicks in. i can tell home much
> discomfort you're having and the procedure sounded very difficult. i'm
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> diane

stinker!LOL<cracking up>

i hadn't thought of that!  good idea!  thanx.  one list for the dr. coming
up.

i'm doing much better now.  last time it took 24 hours to put me in a more
functioning mode.  not nearly as bad, now, when i lower my chin to lower my
gaze.  last night, i thought i was going to black out the first time i did
that.  nobody warned me about that.  i wonder if they even know that happens
sometimes.  that didn't happen to me with the last thoracic injection.
weird.  but he did tell me to be as inert as possible last night, so he must
have figured "something" was going to hurt bigtime.

kate
Duckie - 13 Apr 2005 20:37 GMT
{{{{{{{Kate}}}}}}}
Duckie

> well, procedurally, this appmt. went more like the lumbar punctures, in that
> the pattern leading up to the procedure itself ,was more familiar and the
[quoted text clipped - 77 lines]
> i love all of you,
> kate

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d'huit - 13 Apr 2005 23:11 GMT
> {{{{{{{Kate}}}}}}}
> Duckie

thank you for the hugs, sweetie.

kate

>> well, procedurally, this appmt. went more like the lumbar punctures, in
>> that the pattern leading up to the procedure itself ,was more familiar
[quoted text clipped - 79 lines]
>> i love all of you,
>> kate
RhondaM - 14 Apr 2005 04:26 GMT
I am glad it is over for you and I hope you are feeling better.
RhondaM

> well, procedurally, this appmt. went more like the lumbar punctures, in
> that the pattern leading up to the procedure itself ,was more familiar and
[quoted text clipped - 79 lines]
> i love all of you,
> kate
Marmartoo - 14 Apr 2005 19:10 GMT
Kate, my daughter had the same reaction you did.  The first procedure
didn't bother her too much, but when they moved up and went deeper, she
said it was quite painful and she couldn't move at all during it.  It
did really help her for a while, though.
Gwen
 
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