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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / April 2005

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reality checking with thoracic questions . . .

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d'huit - 02 Apr 2005 06:17 GMT
i badly am in need of reality checks for these questions:

did or does anybody here know that many radiologists are "nihilists" when it
comes to reading and reporting on thoracic spine damage images?

that generally speaking, much important information from thoracic images is
truncated and/or minimized or dismissed by the radiologists, because it is
about the thoracic spine?  that this causes radiologist reports to be
incomplete (and sometimes even in error about degree of damage) about
advanced degenerative thoracic spine diseases?  that this is simply because
radiologists know that little, with the current levels of medical
skills/techniques and knowledge base, can be done to repair thoracic spine
diseases' damage and because the radiologist doesn't know specifically what
the doctor is looking for in the images?

has anybody here had any thoracic surgeries or thoracic procedures of any
kind for and/or because of advanced degenerative diseases (ddd, djd . . .
et al.) of their thoracic spine?  please, elucidate on what, if you have.

does advanced degenerative disease (ddd, djd, etc.) of the thoracic spine
ultimately, or commonly, or simply too often, lead to a wheelchair?

kate
spodosaurus - 02 Apr 2005 07:45 GMT
> i badly am in need of reality checks for these questions:
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> kate

I've had a radiologist issue a false report that screwed up my treatment
for aplastic anaemia and may have contributed to the state I'm currently
in. He looked at the previous report and parroted it without,
apparently, looking at the new hip xrays. I walked around on a shattered
hip joint for six months before an MRI showed the full extent of the
damage, and then waited another 3 for surgery. This completely screwed
up the schedule for my ATG/ALG treatments. All because he couldn't be
bothered to actually do his job and look at an xray with obvious
fractures. I'm not a big fan of radiologists.

Cheers,

Ari

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spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

d'huit - 02 Apr 2005 23:12 GMT
>> i badly am in need of reality checks for these questions:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> Ari

i can totally understand why you are not a big fan.  i'm sorry that happened
to you, ari.  that was beyond the pits for you and tragic.

my radiologist reports are about my thoracic MRI series.  somehow, my pcp
and my rd just read the report; and even my neurologist didn't seem to pick
up on the extent of the damage after his looking at my MRI films.  though to
be fair, he made a vague reference to needing to take more risks with
medications--not sure if he meant me or my rd.  but my rd, who only read the
report, told me my spine is normal for my age and acts as if it is no big
deal.  which, to be honest with you, even though i didn't know the correct
extent of the damage, shut me up (with anger), because why was i given the
choice by my neurologist of lumbar epidurals or surgery, if it was sooooo
normal?

my pain clinic doctor sat down with me before my thoracic epidural (which is
a little riskier procedure than lumbar epidurals because of the proximity of
the spinal cord and they can't use anesthetics near the spine itself because
of the risks).  he told me the MRI films indicated that my thoracic spine is
at the advanced stage of degeneration.  he was very annoyed that the
radiologist's report minimized the damage and ignored a lot of particular
information that was evident in the films.  he used the phrase,
"radiologists are nihilists when it comes to thorasic films,"  and stated
that is for the reasons i posed as questions above.  being a radiologist
himself, i felt that he was probably very valid in his judgment.

truthfully, i thought he was just a radiologist, himself at the clinic, with
specialized epidural training.  but his degrees, on the wall of his office,
from cornell, dartmouth, yale and the university of california medical
schools indicated he is an m.d. and a surgeon, who specializes in pain
management and who also has radiology certification from several other
notable schools and boards on all kinds of imaging systems and spinal
procedures.  now, it makes sense to me that he has a radiologist tech in the
room with him during epidural procedures.  it isn't just convenience and
redundancy, he's a doctor doctor.LOL  duhhhh . . .

he said he was going to rewrite the radiologist's report in the form of
addendums to it, so that my pcp, rd and neurologist know they are dealing
with advanced stage thoracic degeneration of my spine.   he felt i was under
medicated for the levels of pain he said he knew i had to be experiencing,
though he said he was impressed by how well i was coping with it.
LOL---ummm . . . it's not like i have a choice.<smile>  well, i suppose i
have the choice of being grumpy about it or not.LOL

kate
Jo Firey - 02 Apr 2005 19:14 GMT
Can't answer this more than generally.  BUT.  Very few of my doctors even
bother to read the radiologists report.  They want to see the x-rays.  They
all seem to be of the consensus that most radiologists are doing good to
spot a broken bone...after it has started to form a callus.

I've had radiologists say my SI joints are fine.  Even I can see the
difference between the right and left on the x-rays.  Same for other
arthritic joints.

One I kind of got a kick out of was a report on my badly damaged right knee.
It stated I had a ganglion cyst on one of the tendons.  Asked my doctor it
that meant what I thought it meant.  He just shook his head and said yes.
(Ganglion = nerve.  Would not be what was on a tendon)

Jo
>i badly am in need of reality checks for these questions:
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> kate
spodosaurus - 02 Apr 2005 19:55 GMT
> Can't answer this more than generally.  BUT.  Very few of my doctors even
> bother to read the radiologists report.  They want to see the x-rays.  They
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> that meant what I thought it meant.  He just shook his head and said yes.
> (Ganglion = nerve.  Would not be what was on a tendon)

Well, it sounds like you've either jumped to a conclusion (a spinal
ganglion is part of the nervous system, but ganglion is a descriptive
term) or you should have less faith in your doctor:

http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/diseases/ganglion.html

> Jo
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>>
>>kate

Signature

spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

d'huit - 03 Apr 2005 04:48 GMT
> Can't answer this more than generally.  BUT.  Very few of my doctors even
> bother to read the radiologists report.  They want to see the x-rays.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Jo

egads!  even i can spot a new hairline fracture, anywhere!  i learned how to
because a doctor's assistant, at an HMO we belonged to for only a very short
time after this incident, misread my shoulder xray in the '80s and told me
there was no fracture and no apparent damage to supportive ligaments--must
have been a strain, he said.  the HMO didn't get me in to see an
orthopaedist until two weeks later.   that whole time i was doing gravity
rehab on my shoulder on my own, cuz i knew what to do and knew it was
gentle.  that caused me to get yelled at by the ortho for the danger of
displacing the fracture and possibility of needing surgery because of moving
it.   grrrrr . . . hmo's are "group death" instead of group health in my
book.

y'know, it's the other way around for me here.  i find that the dr. who
orders the imaging generally looks at the images, but my other doctors, who
didn't order images, don't ask to see them and just want to see the report.
now that i know what i know, or think i know based upon my pain management
doc, i think i will insist that the other doctors look at the films,
especially my rd who frustrates me at times, by being so dismissive.

kate

>>i badly am in need of reality checks for these questions:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>>
>> kate
DeeTee and Bob Taggart - 03 Apr 2005 02:09 GMT
Don't know, kiddo, but wanted you to know I had seen and read your post.
HUGS!

DeeTee
________________________________
DeeTee and Bob Taggart
http://www.marykay.com/dtaggart3
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze8fwov/
________________________________
>i badly am in need of reality checks for these questions:
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> kate
d'huit - 03 Apr 2005 04:48 GMT
> Don't know, kiddo, but wanted you to know I had seen and read your post.
> HUGS!
>
> DeeTee

thanks, sweetie, i appreciate it and your hug.

kate
> ________________________________
> DeeTee and Bob Taggart
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>>
>> kate
 
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